The Writers of Criminal Minds: Our Scribes

[Dionysa]

I'd like to see Ed back, too. Understanding the core mission is vital, although the team's growth and blending into one another is also necessary for story, as that's what skill sets (and people) do when they work together every day for years on end.

 

I feel any tabula rasa they'd try to pull with the team would be almost bizarre. There would have to be a building (as well as a possible direction change) on canon, not any erasure.

[Wilowy]

I'd wanna see Ed, Simon, Oanh, Andrew, and Chris ALL back for a big-ass blockbuster series finale blowout! BO CRESE, BABY! 

 

Or at least a reasonable approximation. ;) I seriously hope they don't end the entire series finale with just ONE writer. 

[zannej]

Hmm.. I really don't know who would be a good producer for the show. I only saw part of one episode of Gray's Anatomy when I was in the waiting room at a doctor's office. I wanted to throw something at the TV and the bitch with the remote wouldn't change the station or at least mute it. It was just incredibly awful.

 

I agree that nobody "in-house" would be a good option to take over the show. But had this question been asked before all the firings, Erica would not even have been on the radar for a possible person to take over. She just doesn't have the knowledge or experience. Even though I think she's learning, she still does not have the best judgment and it hurts the show.

 

I think that Ed lost his interest in the show somewhat after CBS forced him to cut people loose. IIRC, they told him he had the option of firing cast members or writers and he chose writers-- although I got the impression he wasn't overly attached to AJ. There was an odd moment at the Paley Center interviews when Paget mentioned something about how Ed referred to AJ and Thomas shushed her. I'd love to know what that was about.

 

It will be interesting if they ever do a program about behind-the-scenes on the show years from now. I'm hoping it will be popular enough for something like that and not just forgotten.

 

Was Oanh Ly the one who did "Exit Wounds"? I loved the line where the victim is alone and asks if anyone is there and then mutters "Right, the psychopathic murderer hiding in the shadows is really going to answer". (or something like that).

[Dionysa]

Rick wrote Exit Wounds. :)

[IndependentMind]

I would love for Jonathan Nolan and Greg Plageman of "Person of Interest" to run it. They are gutsy and they are phenomenal writers. I was listening to the podcast and I think it was Jonathan who said they don't care much what CBS says they do what they feel that needs to be done to move the show forward. They killed of a Lead character and a popular one too in the middle of the season. Who does that except Game of Thrones? And they have strong female characters. And they are written very, very well. I love both Shaw and Root's backgrounds. And they are both brunettes which I love.

I adore Amy Acker. As evil as Root was in the beginning I could not help but love her because of Amy. And Sarah Shahi is just bad ass. Tarsji is just phenomenal. And Paige Turco is another strong female character.

They really hold their own.

Edited July 19, 2014 by IndependentMind

[normasm]

Oanh Ly wrote Amplification, among others.

[zannej]

Someone told me that Rick seems to have gotten pissy again and either deleted his twitter account or made it private. It shows as being gone for me.

[ForeverAlone]

Yep, it seems that Rick has deleted his Twitter for the umpteenth time. I wonder what prompted this, and I wonder how long it will be before he activates his Twitter again. *sighs*

[IndependentMind]

He must be aware a lot of fans are not fond of him and Kimberly Harrison.

[Dionysa]

Well he should get back to writing swell episodes like Coda and Exit Wounds, then. Crap like 200 should be a career embarrassment. 

[zannej]

Other than the Reid parts, I really disliked "Coda". It was nowhere near the caliber of the first few seasons.

[Dionysa]

I thought it was really very good profiling how they figured out who the UnSub was... it wasn't all Garcia and they had a difficult puzzle to figure out, with Reid ultimately being key in figuring out the music, the time, and Sammy's routine. I thought the actors were all exceptional; Sammy's mom, and his estranged aunt were especially effective. Then of course the scenes with Reid and Sammy were sensitively handled and warm. The little boy who played Sammy was also very good. 

[zannej]

Well, I wouldn't say all of the actors were exceptional. I thought there was something off with the guy playing the unsub. I really don't remember much about the profiling and other stuff. I just remember that there was too much unsub and it just didn't work for me. But I only watched it once. I should probably re-watch to see if I still dislike it so much.

[SSAHotchner]

I didn't love Coda, either, Zannej. But I liked it better than Corazon.

[normasm]

Guys, I don't know what it was about Corazon, but I loved it! True, it was problematic for the character of Reid, but I loved the guy who played Julio, and I liked the unsub dynamic. I liked that Hotch was concerned for Reid. The only thing i didn't like, and you can discount this as "storytelling" was the supposed hallucinations. Reid is not a channelling being, and CM is not a supernatural show. That part was stupid to me. But liked most of it, and have to watch it when it's on. 

[zannej]

I think its telling that the writer of Corazon only got to pen one episode and never did another one. I actually took the "hallucinations" as things that Reid had seen before and his mind was just bringing them up. It was more like he was dreaming. Before they pussied out on the headache story, there was a lot of speculation from fans and someone pointed out that he was exhibiting symptoms of a type of seizure. 

 

I really liked the character and actor for Julio and I felt that, other than some of the grossout stuff like the bird being killed and the severed head as well as Reid behaving in a way he would never behave (leaving to go to a potentially dangerous place without telling the team), I actually found it interesting and entertaining. We didn't know who the unsub was at first so I liked that.  I like that Reid actually sort of made fun of the fact that the unsub's plan was stupid.

 

I do wish that more of the team had shown concern for Reid. As for the sort of supernatural elements, I thought it was ambiguous enough that viewers could draw their own conclusions. I concluded that Julio was a very good cold reader and he observed Reid's body language and could tell that he was in pain. He sort of profiled Reid and recognized that he had a stressful job full of horrors. Some people just have very good intuition and I think Julio was one of those people. Perhaps he just thought it was something mystical because he was inclined to believe that instead of recognizing the science behind it.

 

I wonder if the producers were not happy with that episode or if the writer herself wasn't interested in trying another episode.

Edited July 26, 2014 by zannej

[The Crazed Spruce]

The thread was veering off-topic there, so I went ahead and moved the last few posts over to the Bullpen.  Hope you guys don't mind.

[zannej]

Rick Dunkle's twitter account is back...

[Wilowy]

Saw that. It's like he gets mad, huffs off, then realizes nobody cares and slides back in. 

[zannej]

Yeah. Its not a great temperament to have in his line of work.

[SSAHotchner]

Saw that. It's like he gets mad, huffs off, then realizes nobody cares and slides back in. 

Haha, it's like that Seinfeld ep where George blows up at his boss and quits and then comes back in on Monday morning and pretends nothing happened.

[zannej]

So Rick was whining that SDCC didn't have any CM or Doctor Who panels and that Joss Whedon wasn't there so what was the point... I wanted to smack him upside the head with an ink jar. Its been a very long time since I went to SDCC, but it was awesome! If he can't appreciate all of the stuff that's there.... *sigh* I guess the comic books aren't enough despite the fact that its COMIC Con... I got to meet some cool folks from DC Comics as well as Lou Ferrigno, Charles "Pete" Conrad (third man to land on the moon), and the writers for Space Ghost Coast to Coast. Its a fun experience. I would have loved to have gone instead of him.

 

Anyway, we were discussing in another thread how the director for Zugzwang had to ask the writer about some things and point out some plot holes (things that didn't make sense) so there were adjustments made. I agree with the people who commented that the directors shouldn't have to do that because the writers should have done that in the first place.

 

Sometimes I really do get the impression that the writers don't really pay much attention to detail and don't think that details are important enough to really matter. To me, the little things *do* matter. Mind you, I'm nitpicky and detail oriented. Before I developed cps, I used to be able to fit two rows of writing (sometimes 3) between the lines on lined paper. So certain things that don't bug other people just tend to drive me nuts. LOL.

[Wilowy]

I would love to have met that astronaut. #ScientistGroupie

[zannej]

He was so cool! I got a poster of him, but it got some water damage from a dripping air conditioner. I wonder if I still have it... I was so sad when he died.

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/johnson/news/releases/1999_2001/j99-24.html

Edited July 31, 2014 by zannej

[normasm]

Oh, Pete was a mensch! Very interesting guy. As was Edgar Mitchell and several of the other astronauts. I wanted so bad to be an astronaut when I was a teenager... these guys are and always will be cool.

Edited July 31, 2014 by normasm

[SSAHotchner]

So Rick was whining that SDCC didn't have any CM or Doctor Who panels and that Joss Whedon wasn't there so what was the point... I wanted to smack him upside the head with an ink jar. Its been a very long time since I went to SDCC, but it was awesome! If he can't appreciate all of the stuff that's there.... *sigh* I guess the comic books aren't enough despite the fact that its COMIC Con... I got to meet some cool folks from DC Comics as well as Lou Ferrigno, Charles "Pete" Conrad (third man to land on the moon), and the writers for Space Ghost Coast to Coast. Its a fun experience. I would have loved to have gone instead of him.

 

Anyway, we were discussing in another thread how the director for Zugzwang had to ask the writer about some things and point out some plot holes (things that didn't make sense) so there were adjustments made. I agree with the people who commented that the directors shouldn't have to do that because the writers should have done that in the first place.

 

Sometimes I really do get the impression that the writers don't really pay much attention to detail and don't think that details are important enough to really matter. To me, the little things *do* matter. Mind you, I'm nitpicky and detail oriented. Before I developed cps, I used to be able to fit two rows of writing (sometimes 3) between the lines on lined paper. So certain things that don't bug other people just tend to drive me nuts. LOL.

I so agree about the writers often not making sense. Don't they read what each other writes? This has been my thing all along. They need some kind of quality control, someone who reads these scripts with an eye to what is confusing, doesn't make sense, couldn't possibly happen, not to mention what contradicts stuff written about the characters in earlier episodes. And this is the thing that irritates me most because I always feel that the writers think we viewers are too stupid to notice these things.

[IndependentMind]

Rick Dunkie is like a petulant, spoiled brat child who thinks he is all that and when he is criticized he goes and throws a tantrum. He can't face reality. He lives in a world where he is constantly praised. He and Kimberly need to go.

CM was on SDCC one year. That is it. What would they do there anyway? There must be a reason why they didnt get invited back. Every year "POI" is there. They also get invited at NYCC and Paley Center,' When was the last time CM was on in Paley Center.

[missmycat]

Rick Dunkie is like a petulant, spoiled brat child who thinks he is all that and when he is criticized he goes and throws a tantrum. He can't face reality. He lives in a world where he is constantly praised. He and Kimberly need to go.

CM was on SDCC one year. That is it. What would they do there anyway? There must be a reason why they didnt get invited back. Every year "POI" is there. They also get invited at NYCC and Paley Center,' When was the last time CM was on in Paley Center.

Who knows the reasons why.But it certainly isn't do to the lack of interest on the part of the fans.When CM was there the response from the fans was overwhelming.

[IndependentMind]

I am not saying they did, but there is a possibility they did something that SDCC did not like to get invited back. I believe Bones is there every year. So is Hannibal and Sleepy Hollow. If they didn't get invited back and the fans response was overwhelming, it is something that happened that we fans were not privy to. And what about Paley Center, why have they not been invited back?

[IndependentMind]

I remember when CM was at SDCC that one time only, Erica Messer was told to get out of the picture because they just wanted a cast photo and Erica Messer kept sticking herself in the picture. There was a videoclip of it, if Inrevall correctly. Maybe EM got butt hurt over that. lol.

At SDCC photoshoot they just do the cast. They don't include the showrunners and writers on the spread.

[Dionysa]

Bones, Hannibal, and Sleepy Hollow have a genre/horror element that CM does not. It is considered more of a straightforward procedural and that may well be why tey tried it and found out Comic Con wasn't a good fit for them.

 

How is that decided, anyway? Are there invitations sent out, or does a show have to apply to participate? Does anyone know?

[IndependentMind]

That is why I was so surprised when CM was invited that year. I was like "What the heck they doing there?" But since they got a ,massive turnout, I thought they would get invited again. I believe they get invited. SDCC is so big that some shows although they want to be there, they don't get invited. I remember Castle had a panel for two years and then did not get invited back again.

[zannej]

I don't know if they have to be invited or if they just have to put in and request to be one of the panels at the venue. There might be fees involved and I think that either the producers or CBS paid. I guess we'd really have to ask a producer about how that all works though.

 

I know that CM did the Paley Center a lot. I could have sworn they did another appearance not too long ago.... Maybe last year? I can't remember. It might have been 2012...

 

Other than some obligatory promotional stuff, I've noticed that the cast/crew don't seem to do much in terms of promotion of the show. CBS often seems to treat CM as the red-headed stepchild.

 

I do know that SDCC can invite people to make appearances and will sometimes pay them, but I believe that there are also groups that can pay to get in to promote their stuff. I remember reading that there was a comiccon where BathFitter company inexplicably got in and set up a display in Philidelphia. Comic fans were befuddled about why a remodeling company decided to put up a display and advertise there. There's all this comic book stuff and then in the middle there was a shower. LOL.

[Wilowy]

Well, it's a bludgeoned-to-death cliche that a large number of Con-goers are wont to forego showers. Maybe that was a not so subtle hint? ;D

[IndependentMind]

I would say sponsorship or advertisers doesn't necessary have to to with comics. I think these advertisers pay just to get their name there. There are a bunch of advertisers in the NFL that have nothing to do with sports. 

 

The only Paley center I saw on youtube was way back when Paget and Joe first joined the show.
 

[Wilowy]

For some reason WWE also has had a huge (pardon) presence at our Comic-Con these past few years. I wouldn't exactly call wrestling "genre", unless it's one unto itself. Though there are some, like Lou Ferrigno, who crosses both streams and was actually a real honor to meet. His upper arms are bigger around than my whole body, yet he had a surprisingly gentle handshake.

 

And to get this back on topic... who amongst the writing staff (current or not) of CM do you think would be the most fun to pal around with?

[zannej]

I believe there may be or may have been at some point, some WWE comic books. I know they do a lot of charity work and are very involved with Make A Wish Foundation as well as supporting our troops. Seeing them at a comic con actually makes sense to me. Lou Ferrigno was very quiet and looked very sad when I met him at a comiccon. I think most of the people didn't know who he was.

 

Hmm... That is a good question. I think I would have liked to have picked Andrew Wilder's brain. IIRC he went to some sort of forensic seminars and stuff. And Ed Bernero was in law enforcement so I think I would have gotten along well with him.

 

Sharon Lee Watson seems like an interesting person.

 

Breen might be fun for nerd discussions.

 

Those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head.

[zannej]

So, on the season 9 DVDs there is a blurb where Erica is babbling on about the episode where the guy was lobotomizing people with a needle near the eyes and she went on about how she did research and traced the lobotomies back to the beginning of psychology. 

 

I'll just leave this here: http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2011/03/21/the-surprising-history-of-the-lobotomy/

(so the first modern one to "treat" mental illness was in 1935). Gee, I didn't know that psychology didn't begin until then.... /sarcasm

But seriously..... No wonder she's horrible with facts, timelines, and continuity. I wonder what she counted as "research" other than pulling stuff out of her ass.

 

I mean, granted there was what was called "psychosurgery" in 1888, but that wasn't the same as a lobotomy. Also, psychology can be dated back much farther...

 

*sigh*

 

I think it shows one of the fundamental problems-- lazy research and the expectation that the fans won't notice. Ok, maybe large portions of the drooling masses won't care or notice, but many of the people who watched the first few seasons and grew to love the show from that will notice.

[zannej]

Looks like a show JSB pitched got picked up by ABC. 

http://deadline.com/2014/08/medical-drama-abc-cold-blood-janine-sherman-barrois-aaron-kaplan-826667/

 

I wonder if she'll be staying on CM or jumping ship.

 

One comment from the article that struck me: "She soon discovers that this elite team has no problem crossing ethical boundaries in order to make progress and save lives."

 

That pretty much sums up what the writers have started to do with CM.

Edited September 2, 2014 by zannej

[ForeverAlone]

Yeah, I HATE it when the show depicts a law enforcement agency acting outside the bounds of the law, like it is some sort of admirable thing. That sort of crap gets people fired in real life. 

[SSAHotchner]

If only this means she will be gone from CM. I hate her writing. It's all focused on the unsub.

[zannej]

Ok, I asked on Twitter and she said it was just one script and that she's staying on CM.

 

Also, I completely agree with you, FA.

Edited September 2, 2014 by zannej

[Danielg342]

Yeah, I HATE it when the show depicts a law enforcement agency acting outside the bounds of the law, like it is some sort of admirable thing. That sort of crap gets people fired in real life.

Exactly. It's especially annoying when in the early seasons Hotch and Morgan were always the ones to make sure what the team did was right and legal- it's a complete 180 for them to act otherwise now.

So, on the season 9 DVDs there is a blurb where Erica is babbling on about the episode where the guy was lobotomizing people with a needle near the eyes and she went on about how she did research and traced the lobotomies back to the beginning of psychology.

I always thought the “lobotomy episode” (“To Bear Witness”) was a missed opportunity. Here was a guy creating zombies and they totally dropped the ball. Maybe zombies would be too “far out” for Criminal Minds but I would have loved it.

I think it shows one of the fundamental problems-- lazy research and the expectation that the fans won't notice. Ok, maybe large portions of the drooling masses won't care or notice, but many of the people who watched the first few seasons and grew to love the show from that will notice.

I do think a certain level of simplicity is needed for the show to remain accessible to the general public, but you are right- the amount of stuff they gloss over, especially in their own episodes, is infuriating. Sometimes it just looks like they didn't even research at all.

[idiotwaltz]

I'm watching the special feature for Lauren and every single time Breen Frazier speaks, I have the unspeakable urge to punch him in the face. Hell, I want to punch all of them, they all sound so smug for writing a storyline that came out of nowhere and screws with the previous 4 seasons' canon. 

[missmycat]

I'm watching the special feature for Lauren and every single time Breen Frazier speaks, I have the unspeakable urge to punch him in the face. Hell, I want to punch all of them, they all sound so smug for writing a storyline that came out of nowhere and screws with the previous 4 seasons' canon. 

I know exactly how you feel.. Breen, like Rick, just happens to be one of EM's 'Alias' cohorts.All 3 have been guilty of acting like they were still writing for that show as oppose to writing for 'Criminal Minds'. My guess is, that the MESS probably thinks of JJ as the reincarnation of Sydney Bistrow. 

Edited November 17, 2014 by missmycat

[JMO]

Hi-jacking this from the 'Season 10' thread.

 

Outside of the addiction story, the only thing I have heard for Reid is a HOPE that Jane Lynch would be willing to come back. So outside of addiction and his mother, I don't think the writers have any sort of idea of what to do with Reid. And frankly, I don't expect Jane to come back.

 

I don't know how much point there would be to having Jane Lynch back on the show.  The improbable off-screen 'cure' of Diana Reid would have made the character a completely different person anyway.  What a missed opportunity that whole fiasco was!

 

I know I'm repeating myself from a while ago but, as was demonstrated on the episode in question, it was never necessary to have Jane Lynch on screen to have Reid deal with something related to his mother.  Why they chose to make that 'something' a ridiculously unrealistic cure is, to me, evidence of a certain element of immaturity in the writing.  It was just juvenile.

 

All they really need to do is to take a situation-----any situation----and figure out how real humans might behave in it. ( I have found, over the years, that being one of those real humans in helpful in deciphering this.)  Then depict it on screen.  It really isn't that hard.  It's certainly not all that complicated.  It's just necessary.

[Old Dog]

Here's a thing - I just caught by chance an old episode of Numb3rs from 2006 called "Spree" about a pair of lovers going on an interstate robbery and killing spree. Sound familiar? In 2011 we had The Thirteenth Step which had so many parallels it could have been written by the same person with a few tweaks to fit the BAU. When I had a look to see who wrote these episodes - Ken Sanzel and Janine Sherman Barrois - I found they both attended a Writers Guild Showrunners Training Course in 2007 so must have been friends. Is anything original on crime shows anymore I wonder.

[spinner33]

While watching the Cold Case series, I've caught many storylines and story elements that are too similar to later CM episodes to be coincidence.  Like the episode where the youngest detective bonds with an autistic boy who witnessed his parents' murders, and the detective's connection with the boy helps solve the mystery, because he's the only one who can understand the boy.   Like it happens on Cold Case, and then a couple years later, an eerily-similar story pops up on CM. 

 

I know it's hard to come up with original ideas, but I don't understand why the CM writers don't work from the real criminal cases that the FBI has solved.  Isn't there supposed to be an actual book of FBI murder cases that the earlier episodes were based on?  I guess real crime is too vanilla for them.  They want outlandish freaks obsessed with turning women into birds, or super evil identical twins, and other crap like that.  Or the overwhelming number of female killers they keep writing?  Because nothing says female empowerment like making your unsub a petite psycho mother who kills athletic healthy men to make plant food to save her sick child? 

[normasm]

I highly suspect that the actual annals of serial crime are grindingly similar: sexual sadists who were messed with in their childhood and who prey on women to get the gratification they can't get normally. I bet reality is that 90% of serial killers are just that. 

 

CM being a TV show, whether or not it needs to 'borrow' plots from other shows, it will, because the industry responds to novelty (in stories), and then repeats it until it's no longer novel.

[JMO]

 

They want outlandish freaks obsessed with turning women into birds, or super evil identical twins, and other crap like that.  Or the overwhelming number of female killers they keep writing?  Because nothing says female empowerment like making your unsub a petite psycho mother who kills athletic healthy men to make plant food to save her sick child?

 

I don't know how necessary a choice it is, but if I had to choose, I'd prefer something grounded in a degree of reality, even if it was similar in plot line to another program.  It's just too hard to become interested in some of the outlandish ideas they produce when they're trying to be 'original'.  They're too ridiculous to inspire fear, too artificial to relate to, and just....boring. 

 

TV writers have the same influences as the rest of us----news items, novels, films, etc.  So it's no surprise they'll come up with similar story lines to other programs, even if not directly inspired by that program.  The thing that was different about CM is that it also had an additional source, in the FBI/BAU files.  Same stories we might have read about in the newspaper, but with a degree of detail (and insight into the mind of the perpetrator) that was new.