The Writers of Criminal Minds: Our Scribes

[MMC]

What I am encouraged by is the fact that Stephanie has written for the L&O franchise, particularly since it does tend to have a more cerebral aspect to it, especially where the original L&O was concerned. I am so hoping she is going to be bringing a more cerebral aspect back to CM with her episodes.

As for Gigi, I agree with you one hundred percent Booky. Yet again we have another non writer taken a job a way from an actual writer because they want to try their hand at writing. It wouldn't be such an issue with me if past experience hadn't shown us that it never bodes well for this show. You'd think there would be some kind of union rule against this sort of stuff. Btw I will happily eat my words if Gigi actually turns out to be a plus for this show.

Edited July 11, 2016 by MMC

[normasm]

I was told by someone in the know about TV production that one must have writing credentials to be a producer on these shows. I know that doesn't tell us 1) her depth of experience, or 2) if depth of experience would mean she was a good writer. As you say, some great writers out there will never get a great job like this, especially if they don't tweet and snap every damn thing...

[Bookish Jen]

On ‎7‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 4:11 PM, normasm said:

I was told by someone in the know about TV production that one must have writing credentials to be a producer on these shows. I know that doesn't tell us 1) her depth of experience, or 2) if depth of experience would mean she was a good writer. As you say, some great writers out there will never get a great job like this, especially if they don't tweet and snap every damn thing...

I'm getting more into social media regarding my blog, but when it comes to my blog, content is king. And I must make sure my posts whether they be book reviews, links to relatable media, retro reviews, film reviews of movies based on books, or fun/inspiring/interesting graphics are top notch!

[Willowy]

Ugh, see now this is the kind of stuff he's getting now. Uncalled for, and just awful.

 

[normasm]

But Franky, by liking it, he is calling for it. And no, that dumbass fungus is a creep. But Virgil is doing the veins in the teeth thing. He's sloppin around with these pigs, thinking it makes him a martyr.

[Willowy]

Maybe. I'm not Virgil's biggest fan but I do think, despite his impatience with us, he's got a decent heart. And you're right about that fungus guy being a creep. Virgil may have been just trying to call attention to that? Maybe he hoped someone would chime in, I know he 'likes' things sarcastically, sometimes. It does seem that he's much more quiet right now, I'm sure he's been told to be, but I honestly don't think anything he tweeted afterwards was that horrible. I mean he had just gone through a pretty harrowing thing. 

I dunno... I kinda feel for the guy.

[normasm]

You might be right in the way you call it, Franky, but I disagree

[Willowy]

And that's okay, yeah? I just wish we knew more. About this whole thing, actually.

[smoker]

EM and KV's episodes aren't good.

I've got a cold, so I lack the energy to explain my arguments  the way I would like, sorry. However, I think it's safe if I say their scripts are empirically bad.

EM and KV are given (or can choose) some trendy or/and remarkable plots, that's a luxury.

But their Deus ex machina technique is exploited until the embarrassment. If we took that from the episode, the one thing left is a mixture of edited scenes without any connection. Actually, almost every episode is like this lately. We are left trying to fish some decent scenes here and there.

I think Derek's exit (sorry, I can't remember the title) was an awful episode, it was a lot worse than Nelson's sparrow.

Ben Savage is one of the best casting decisions of the last years, next to Bodhi Elfman (in Mr. Scratch) and Frances Fisher (in Devil's backbone). And his charismatic performance was an improvement for Nelson's sparrow.

Edited October 3, 2016 by smoker

[senin]

I'm sorry you're not feeling well, smoker. I hope you get better soon!!

[smoker]

51 minutes ago, senin said:

I'm sorry you're not feeling well, smoker. I hope you get better soon!!

Thank you senin! I hope so

Edited October 2, 2016 by smoker

[Willowy]

EM and KV wrote Nelson's Sparrow. Did they write any others together so far? Damn good episode, even great by today's standard. 

[ReidFan]

I loved Nelson's Sparrow, one of my top ten favourite episodes of the series.

[ForeverAlone]

EM and KV also wrote A Beautiful Disaster, which was Shemar's exit episode. I like some things about Nelson's Sparrow, but I feel it fails in part in terms of story structure, just because of the circumstances of Gideon's death. 

[SSAHotchner]

I'm not a fan of Nelson's Sparrow. I think the casting was good and I was never opposed to them killing off Gideon. But the way they went about it was totally unbelievable. Gideon would never have been outsmarted by a guy like that. And all the surveillance cameras he had way back in The Fisher King would have prevented anyone from sneaking up on him. I also felt the writers were trying manipulate us with the phony connection between Gideon and Rossi. In previous seasons, Rossi never spoke fondly of Gideon. His comments about Gideon were always derogatory. I always felt that was the writers' way of getting back at Mandy for his unprofessional behavior by breaking his contract. But of course Erica feels the need to ignore everything that went before, even though she frequently touts that she's been there since the beginning, and write warm fuzzies instead of getting it right. I thought the case itself was ridiculous. 
 

I think the scripts Erica writes with another writer are always better than the ones she writes by herself, but not ever the best written episodes. 

[Bookish Jen]

10 hours ago, SSAHotchner said:

I'm not a fan of Nelson's Sparrow. I think the casting was good and I was never opposed to them killing off Gideon. But the way they went about it was totally unbelievable. Gideon would never have been outsmarted by a guy like that. And all the surveillance cameras he had way back in The Fisher King would have prevented anyone from sneaking up on him. I also felt the writers were trying manipulate us with the phony connection between Gideon and Rossi. In previous seasons, Rossi never spoke fondly of Gideon. His comments about Gideon were always derogatory. I always felt that was the writers' way of getting back at Mandy for his unprofessional behavior by breaking his contract. But of course Erica feels the need to ignore everything that went before, even though she frequently touts that she's been there since the beginning, and write warm fuzzies instead of getting it right. I thought the case itself was ridiculous. 
 

I think the scripts Erica writes with another writer are always better than the ones she writes by herself, but not ever the best written episodes. 

I liked Nelson's Sparrow a lot, but I wasn't a fan of how Gideon died. I wish he would have died of cancer, a heart attack, car accident or just from natural causes. Being murdered by an unsub was totally out of Gideon's canon.

[normasm]

I don't know, Booky, it was always implied that Gideon gave his life for his job until he just couldn't, so I have no problem with him existentially finding a way to actually end up giving his life for that job. It's poetic and heroic, which is what they wanted us to think, methinks!

[Bookish Jen]

I found this quote and I couldn't help but think of CM. 

“Action is the pulse of any good story, but the character is the heart. If the action has no consequence to the character, the story loses heart.” 
― Linda W. Yezak

[Mislav]

In my opinion, Sharon Lee Watson is the only one who writers consistently good episodes (over the last few years, anyway). Remember "Alchemy"? "Final Shot"? "The Caller"? "Rock Creek Park"? "Devil's Backbone"? All her! I like Breen Frazier too, but Sharon rocks. With a risk of sounding arrogant, judging by her writing, she seems kind of similar to me. It is like her episodes speak to me, really move me even LOL Too bad she will no longer be writing for the show (or so I heard). Kirsten Vangsness is pretty good too, but she hasn't written "enough" episodes, considering how good she is-but I understand, acting and all, it keeps her busy. Everyone else is meh. The worst one is Virgil Williams, especially over the last year or so. And then there is Erica Messer. No comment.

[ForeverAlone]

Sharon hasn't been a part of this show all season. 

[Willowy]

I miss Sharon's writing, too. A Thousand Suns? Stellar episode. I wish I knew what she was working on right now.

I don't think any writer they've ever had is as good as Andrew Wilder, though. He recently left twitter, to my dismay, and is currently writing for The Flash.

[PMPA]

23 hours ago, AutisticSpoonie said:

I seem to recall it's not criticism Virgil can't take but the suggestion he deserved to be assaulted.

TG wasn't exactly Ava Duverney so I'm guessing we didn't miss anything great. 

Unfortunately your recollection is somewhat flawed, as has been pointed out by other posters.  Virgil is a an old hand at dissing and throwing shade or just downright insults at ANYONE who even attempts to show critical commentary for his work and subsequently playing martyr afterwards.  Much as many would like to assume that his problems are entirely TG related, thats simply not the case. 

As for the comment regarding TG's directing - well his previous directing efforts have been pretty good, despite the generally poor material given. I agree, we probably did not miss anything great, because quite frankly, even TG could not have pulled this one out of the gutter.

[Hotchgirl18]

Can someone honestly tell me what they think of the writing and the quality recently? 

[JMO]

20 minutes ago, Hotchgirl18 said:

Can someone honestly tell me what they think of the writing and the quality recently? 

'Inconsistent' is the word that comes to mind.  Not sure what qualifies as 'recently', but I think it's been this way for at least a few years.  The quality of the plot is inconsistent from week to week, the quality of the characterizations is inconsistent, the alignment with canon is inconsistent, the research is inconsistent.  

I find the whole topic of writing a series to be interesting, because I think the nature of it has to change over time, and keeping up quality will have a different meaning with each phase of the show.  

[Hotchgirl18]

1 minute ago, JMO said:

'Inrdconsistent' is the word that comes to mind.  Not sure what qualifies as 'recently', but I think it's been this way for at least a few years.  The quality of the plot is inconsistent from week to week, the quality of the characterizations is inconsistent, the alignment with canon is inconsistent, the research is inconsistent.  

I find the whole topic of writing a series to be interesting, because I think the nature of it has to change over time, and keeping up quality will have a different meaning with each phase of the show.  

Exactly. And sometimes you hav 

Sometimes you have a really good episode and the next one is crap. It's like they're catering to the lowest common denominator.  Stating the obvious,  the torture porn. Used to, they would just imply the dirty deeds. Now,  they show them outright and we get too much unsub and not enough team. 

[JMO]

5 hours ago, Hotchgirl18 said:

Exactly. And sometimes you hav 

Sometimes you have a really good episode and the next one is crap. It's like they're catering to the lowest common denominator.  Stating the obvious,  the torture porn. Used to, they would just imply the dirty deeds. Now,  they show them outright and we get too much unsub and not enough team. 

 I agree with you about the 'less is more' regarding the violence.  I prefer the more cerebral aspects of the show, and some episodes are pretty short on them.

Others probably know a lot more about this than I do, but I believe the writers are expected to turn in something that can reasonably fit into the time allotted.  Yet, it doesn't always happen, and there are pages worth of material edited out before shooting, as well as additional scenes that are filmed, but end up on the cutting room floor.  So I don't ever have a good enough sense of whose decision it is to show more or less unsub, more or less violence, more or less team interaction---the writer, the director, the editor, or a combination of the three.  

I don't know about catering to the lowest common denominator.  But I would agree with you that time is wasted on less interesting aspects (the violence) and then not enough is used on elaborating the thought processes and relationships.

I have the same issues with running around in the dark, and blowing things up.

[Hotchgirl18]

3 minutes ago, JMO said:

 I agree with you about the 'less is more' regarding the violence.  I prefer the more cerebral aspects of the show, and some episodes are pretty short on them.

Others probably know a lot more about this than I do, but I believe the writers are expected to turn in something that can reasonably fit into the time allotted.  Yet, it doesn't always happen, and there are pages worth of material edited out before shooting, as well as additional scenes that are filmed, but end up on the cutting room floor.  So I don't ever have a good enough sense of whose decision it is to show more or less unsub, more or less violence, more or less team interaction---the writer, the director, the editor, or a combination of the three.  

I don't know about catering to the lowest common denominator.  But I would agree with you that time is wasted on less interesting aspects (the violence) and then not enough is used on elaborating the thought processes and relationships.

I have the same issues with running around in the dark, and blowing things up.

I prefer the more cerebral aspects. This is Criminal MINDS. I want to see the team interact. 

[Danielg342]

I'm with @JMO that the one word to describe the writing is "inconsistent". It seems from week to week we have wildly varying degrees of quality and attention to detail, with plotting sometimes thought out and other times glossed over, leading to very uneven stories. My guess is that Erica Messer wanted to "loosen the reins" so she gave her writers more freedom, but this has only served to expose how weak the staff really is.

I think the torture porn hit its peak in S7-8, as well as much of S9. Since then, we have seen more of a focus on "member stories" (first with JJ in S9, then Kate in S10, Morgan in S11 and now Reid) as well as an increasing emphasis on "discussing" the crimes.

Intrinsically, it's not a bad change of pace, but, as always, the execution just isn't there. When it comes to the character stories, the writers often disregard or barely acknowledge previous characterization or any sense of logic in favour of "drama for the sake of drama", leading to arcs progressing that become total headscratchers by the time they are finished. Sometimes there appears to be an idea of how the arc is supposed to progress while other times plot points vary wildly, but there is no indication that there is actually a plan.

As for the discussion aspect, I should welcome the idea of the team exploring the cerebral and discussing amongst themselves the intricacies of the case. The problem is, they are just doing it amongst themselves, never involving outside parties in some way. The result of this are episodes that are very "talkative" and feel very much like long info-dumps, which have actually put me to sleep this season. It's like they listened to the fans asking for less UnSub and more cerebral stories but then forgot about all the other aspects that make a story work, like twists and turns, red herrings, conflicts amongst the team or the locals, etc.

[Hotchgirl18]

44 minutes ago, Danielg342 said:

I'm with @JMO that the one word to describe the writing is "inconsistent". It seems from week to week we have wildly varying degrees of quality and attention to detail, with plotting sometimes thought out and other times glossed over, leading to very uneven stories. My guess is that Erica Messer wanted to "loosen the reins" so she gave her writers more freedom, but this has only served to expose how weak the staff really is.

I think the torture porn hit its peak in S7-8, as well as much of S9. Since then, we have seen more of a focus on "member stories" (first with JJ in S9, then Kate in S10, Morgan in S11 and now Reid) as well as an increasing emphasis on "discussing" the crimes.

Intrinsically, it's not a bad change of pace, but, as always, the execution just isn't there. When it comes to the character stories, the writers often disregard or barely acknowledge previous characterization or any sense of logic in favour of "drama for the sake of drama", leading to arcs progressing that become total headscratchers by the time they are finished. Sometimes there appears to be an idea of how the arc is supposed to progress while other times plot points vary wildly, but there is no indication that there is actually a plan.

As for the discussion aspect, I should welcome the idea of the team exploring the cerebral and discussing amongst themselves the intricacies of the case. The problem is, they are just doing it amongst themselves, never involving outside parties in some way. The result of this are episodes that are very "talkative" and feel very much like long info-dumps, which have actually put me to sleep this season. It's like they listened to the fans asking for less UnSub and more cerebral stories but then forgot about all the other aspects that make a story work, like twists and turns, red herrings, conflicts amongst the team or the locals, etc.

Remember how in earlier episodes the LEOS would participate too and get it on the action? Now, they just stand around. And it is inconsistent. One week, you'll have a stellar episode, reminiscent of a season one or two episode, then the next week you basically have bullcrap.  And the bad often outnumber the good. They seem to only be capable of putting out an outstanding episode three times out of the whole season. You think if I only showed up to piano lessons twice out of the semester, I'd get a good score? Or someone who only did their job really well four times out of the whole year?

[Danielg342]

I grant many of those LEOs lacked depth as they were mainly there just to be wowed by the insights of the team, but every now and then we'd have a truly memorable one like John Blackwolf or Tina Lopez ("In Heat") that made it worthwhile. It also added to the tapestry of the show and reminded the viewer that the team did not operate in a vacuum, plus the locals at least added the illusion that the team was in a different place.

Now? They might as well be doing it on a sound stage that the local detectives watch from afar.

[ReidGirl]

Who are your favourite writers?? 

Mine are in no particular order

Jeff Davis
Edward Allen Bernero
Andrew Wilder
Chris Mundy
Breen Frazier
Sharon Lee Watson

[ReidFan]

all that you said, ReidGirl, and also Oanh Ly (spelling!?; she did Amplification)

[ReidGirl]

15 minutes ago, ReidFan said:

all that you said, ReidGirl, and also Oanh Ly (spelling!?; she did Amplification)

Yup I love Amplification but dont like any other episodes she wrote as much. But just because of Amplification I can add her to the list. 

I love how Breen Frazier writes mature, intelligent and assertive Reid.

Edited April 11, 2017 by ReidGirl

[normasm]

Deb Fisher and Erica as a team wrote some good ones.

[ReidGirl]

12 minutes ago, normasm said:

Deb Fisher and Erica as a team wrote some good ones.

I usually dont like any episode which is written by Erica exception being scared to death. I like that episode only for Morgan and Reid elevator scene really. Now I am being shallow :-), but when it comes to Reid I have no shame.

[Hotchgirl18]

Favorites

Sharon Watson

Breen Frazier

Least Favorites

Erica Messer

Kim Harrison

Virgil Williams

[Willowy]

Andrew Wilder

Breen Frazier - except for The Forever People

Sharon Lee Watson

Some Jim Clemente

Oanh Ly

Simon Mirren

Bo Crese ;)

[Willowy]

I don't know about y'all, but I'm getting nervous as hell about this. On the one hand, I want the writers to all get what they're asking for, which is basically better health care and a slice of the internet revenue pie. On the other hand, I'm afraid of the opposition they may face, and then too, the producers/directors, and everyone else who won't be able to make a living for who knows how long. 

Not to mention, that means no season 13, or at least it would be pushed back considerably until a settlement is reached. 

This article lays out what we know so far. They haven't voted to strike, but there's strong support for a strike authorization vote - which means that yes they would strike May 2 if their demands weren't met. It's turning into a real nail-biter. 

http://variety.com/2017/film/news/writers-guild-members-strike-authorization-vote-1202390594/

[Aethera]

I was reading about the strike and the issues (it sounds less single-issue than the 2007 one) and I hope the writers get some leeway on their exclusivity to allow them to work more. I get that with being paid by the episode, and more shows doing shorter runs, they would need to work on more shows to get the same pay they got before. Things don't seem quite as contentious as last time, but they also have almost no time left, and they've barely gotten to talk about it. You're right Willowy, definitely a nail-biter!

[Willowy]

http://criminalmindsfans.com/criminal-minds-writer-virgil-williams-chooses-not-to-renew-contract/

[ReidGirl]

18 minutes ago, Willowy said:

http://criminalmindsfans.com/criminal-minds-writer-virgil-williams-chooses-not-to-renew-contract/

I never really liked any of the episodes he wrote except for "The Apprenticeship"(for Morgan and Reid scenes purely). Is it sad that I am happy he wont be writing for season 13? That would save us from some bad episodes in future.

[Willowy]

I wish him well and much future success. Not particularly happy to see him go, as we lost Sharon too and now there's a big gap in the writers' room (*cough* hello, Andrew Wilder?). I always thought Virgil's episodes showed a lot of heart. He self-admittedly wasn't the best at the profiling stuff, which is ironic since he wrote both Profiling 101 and 202.

 

[ReidGirl]

Andrew Wilder and Sharon Lee Watson are both part of my favourite writers list. 

For me in Virgil's episodes, team interaction was bad. Route 66 being the prime example. There was hardly any concern for Hotch from any of the team members.

I do wish Virgil Williams well for the future, but just happy he wont be writing for CM.

[ForeverAlone]

I can't say I am sad to see him go, because I rarely liked his episodes. If only Erica would be replaced by a new showrunner who could bring the show back in line with how it was in earlier days. But I'm not holding my breath for that one. 

[normasm]

Perhaps now they can bring Thomas back in a limited fashion in season 13. That would make me smile.

[Willowy]

[ReidGirl]

Thats a tough one as except Janine, I like the rest of the writers. But if I have to choose one then it has to be Andrew Wilder as he wrote 3 of my all time favourite episodes.. LDSK, Elephant's memory and Minimal loss. 

[Hotchgirl18]

Virgil is gone?! My life keeps getting better and better. 

[Willowy]

I think if you click on it, it'll take you to the poll to vote! :D

[ReidGirl]

9 minutes ago, Hotchgirl18 said:

Virgil is gone?! My life keeps getting better and better. 

Haaa HotchGirl... I knew you would say that.