S01.E08: You Won't Like Him When He's Angry

[ohjoy]

Nicole puts everything on the line to rescue Dion from Suzanne and BIONA. Later, Charlotte uncovers a terrifying truth.

Release date: October 4, 2019

[marieYOTZ]

As man, Pat. The quintessential “nice-guy wronged”. Takes a lot to make me think of a Jason Ritter character as a huge loser, but they succeeded! 

[Katsullivan]

Honestly, having the incel white guy be the Big Bad probably made this the realest supervillain origin story I've ever seen/read.

[phoenics]

HOLY SHIT!!  OMG - I thought Pat had merged with the dad somehow when Dion tried to heal him but I NEVER thought Pat WAS the villainous stormcloud man!

OMG - that makes so much sense though.

He went incel entitled nice guy so fast - him showing up at her job, etc..  Everything.

And he sentiently killed those people - wow.  Why tho?

Damn this show is amazing.

[ursula]

2 hours ago, phoenics said:

HOLY SHIT!!  OMG - I thought Pat had merged with the dad somehow when Dion tried to heal him but I NEVER thought Pat WAS the villainous stormcloud man!

OMG - that makes so much sense though.

He went incel entitled nice guy so fast - him showing up at her job, etc..  Everything.

And he sentiently killed those people - wow.  Why tho?

Damn this show is amazing.

💃💃💃💃 Told ya you won’t  regret sticking to it.

[peace355]

Just watched this episode. Wow I thought something was off with Pat but didn't think he was storm man!

Early on, I didn't like how he undermined Nicole encouraging Dion to use his powers with the basketball and I thought he may be power envy when he said everyone got superpowers. But this episode  withh his entitlement to expect something from Nicole because he was playing "nice guy", I hoped they weren't going to have her come around and go out with him, so it was a good surprise to have him the villain!

[Bonnie Parker]

One thing about the Pat twist is that a lot of people didn't see it coming because they didn't think it would come, not because there weren't signs.

How many movies/shows have we watched with 'Pat's? The nice guy who undermines the heroine but still wins her over? The warning signs were there but we're so used to 'Pat's not getting their commeupance and even being rewarded by the narrative... That's why it's a twist. Not because there were no clues but because this trope never plays out this way.

[Neurochick]

On 10/18/2019 at 1:05 PM, Bonnie Parker said:

How many movies/shows have we watched with 'Pat's? The nice guy who undermines the heroine but still wins her over? The warning signs were there but we're so used to 'Pat's not getting their commeupance and even being rewarded by the narrative... That's why it's a twist. Not because there were no clues but because this trope never plays out this way.

I felt like something was up with Pat but I didn't know what.  I think I know why he's been killing all those people though.  Suzanne said something about the area around where the event happened dying, that Iceland is dying.  Pat was in the Yurt.  Maybe Pat is dying and the only way he can survive is to zap all these people.

I never felt like Pat underminded Nicole.  So if a man tells a woman not to do something, he's undermining her?  I also felt that Nicole used him.  I mean every time she needed something she called Pat.   There was even a scene at Dion's birthday party where Nicole sees Pat talking to another woman and gives him the side eye.  Her friend even asked if Nicole was jealous, she said no.  What was that about?  I don't see Pat as an incel because he really was helping Nicole with Dion.  Sometimes I think we live in a world where we suspect everybody's motives and that's not always a good thing.

IRL relationships are a dance, sometimes you're not attracted to the guy for awhile, until something happens and you see him in another light.  I felt Nicole should have told Pat to talk a walk BEFORE knowing about Dion's powers.

Here's my thing.  If you reversed the genders and Pat was Patricia and Nicole was Nicholas, people would probably think Nick was a jerk and leading Patricia on.  

[ursula]

2 hours ago, Neurochick said:

I also felt that Nicole used him.  I mean every time she needed something she called Pat. 

Em... what?

Off the top of my head, I remember Nicole asking her neighbour to take Dion to his party, asking her sister to check Dion after the first sign of his powers, asking Charlotte to pick him up from school (which was when Pat flipped). Pat pushed and pushed his way into their lives. You could see how much Nicole wanted to tell him to get lost from their first scene together (when the doorman asked if he was her boyfriend and she looked revolted) and she only put up with him for Dion’s sake.

She only warmed up to him when Dion displayed his powers in front of Pat, and Pat became the only person who knew/believed her. It wasn’t her choice to get close to him and she was never interested in him. Every time someone asked her if anything was going on between them, her answer was very clear.

Yes, Nicole needed help. Sometimes she had to take help from Pat. That’s because she was a single mother, and gee, I wonder whose fault was that?

2 hours ago, Neurochick said:

If you reversed the genders and Pat was Patricia and Nicole was Nicholas, people would probably think Nick was a jerk and leading Patricia on.  

If we reversed the genders, people would think that Patricia was a serial killing homicidal maniac. They’d think her giving Dion school rides is the least she could do since she murdered his mother. And that hitting on the husband of her victim and guilting him for needing her help - because he’s a single dad - thanks to the fact that she murdered his wife - makes her a flat out psychopath, and the scum of the earth. 

People would have waaaaay less sympathy for a Patricia than a Pat.

Also, switch the races and have Patricia be the black best friend who murdered saintly, perfect and white Martha and then tried to move in on a white Nicholas. I can bet you real money that no one will be having this discussion.

[Neurochick]

But to me Nicole wanted to have it both ways.  She should have told Pat to fuck off long before she found out about Dion's powers.  I mean even Nicole's neighbor sensed that Pat liked Nicole more than just a friend.

18 hours ago, ursula said:

If we reversed the genders, people would think that Patricia was a serial killing homicidal maniac. They’d think her giving Dion school rides is the least she could do since she murdered his mother. And that hitting on the husband of her victim and guilting him for needing her help - because he’s a single dad - thanks to the fact that she murdered his wife - makes her a flat out psychopath, and the scum of the earth. 

But would people feel that way BEFORE we knew what happened?  Before we knew how Mark was killed?  See, after we found out that it was Pat who killed Mark, that changed the story.  Watching up to episode 8, I did feel like Nicole was taking advantage of Pat, she knew how he felt.  IRL people string folks along for all kinds of fucked up reasons.

[ursula]

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

But to me Nicole wanted to have it both ways.  She should have told Pat to fuck off long before she found out about Dion's powers.  I mean even Nicole's neighbor sensed that Pat liked Nicole more than just a friend.

 

She didn't want to alienate Dion from his godfather. She had made the decision not to let her personal dislike of Pat isolate Dion from someone whom he loved, and who was a close friend to his father. So that Dion won't have to face 2 losses in his short life in quick succession. That was Nicole being a good mom, not "wanting to have it both ways". I don't even know why this needs to be explained. 

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

But would people feel that way BEFORE we knew what happened?  Before we knew how Mark was killed?  See, after we found out that it was Pat who killed Mark, that changed the story. Watching up to episode 8, I did feel like Nicole was taking advantage of Pat, she knew how he felt.  

Firstly, Nicole didn't know how Pat felt until he kissed her. Most women don't expect their dead husband's BFFs that they've only recently started having a cordial relationship with to hit on them. And when they had the talk, she made her position with him very clearly. Just because Pat said it entitled him to Nicole doesn't mean we should agree with him. 

I already pointed out that Nicole was a single mother who asked for - no, needed - help from everyone. Her sister. Her neighbour. Grouchy Charlotte. Should they all have expected her to date them too?

Secondly, a lot of people were side-eyeing Pat before episode 8. I myself pointed this out in episode 5:

On 10/6/2019 at 2:09 PM, ursula said:

Between this glaring omission on his part, his anti-Uncle-Ben attitude of encouraging Dion to use his powers to cheat at basketball, and just the general "I loved Mark but hated being his sidekick" vibe I get from Pat, I'm like 90% convinced at this point that he's evil. 

I just need him to try to move in on Nicole like Ghost, and I'll be 100% convinced. 

That's me 3 episodes before The Reveal stating that Pat hitting on Nicole would be evidence that he was a villain. 

Because men who insinuate themselves into the lives of widows and fatherless kids, make themselves indispensable and then expect sex in return are not good guys.

The story didn't change. Pat was always Mark's murderer. He didn't magically become Mark's murderer sometime between episodes 8 & 9. 

And lastly, now that you know the full story, what is your point? That Nicole should have been nicer to her husband's murderer? Should have dated her husband's murderer? Should have slept with her husband's murderer?

Because all I'm seeing is a lot of sympathy for a serial killer and murderer, and none for the woman whom he widowed, the boy he rendered fatherless or the man he actually killed.

Let's say for argument's sake that Nicole was the cold-hearted bitch who was "taking advantage" of poor, misunderstood Pat...  The only reason Nicole needed Pat's help was because her husband was dead. What would still be your point? Or are you claiming that Pat deserves sympathy for not being allowed to profit from his murder?

Edited October 25, 2019 by ursula

[Katsullivan]

21 hours ago, ursula said:

Also, switch the races and have Patricia be the black best friend who murdered saintly, perfect and white Martha and then tried to move in on a white Nicholas. I can bet you real money that no one will be having this discussion.

2 hours ago, ursula said:

Because all I'm seeing is a lot of sympathy for a serial killer and murderer, and none for the woman whom he widowed, the boy he rendered fatherless or the man he actually killed.

Being a man helps but if you really want to make a villain sympathetic, then make him white and make his victims black. 

[ohjoy]

Remember: Having differing, even opposing, perspectives is okay. Making things personal against your fellow posters is not. Keep your discussion civil toward your fellow posters, please.

[possibilities]

Oh show, I love you.

I think it's perfectly reasonable and normal for the best friend of a dead person, to care about and want to help the dead friend's surviving spouse and kid. I think Nicole was perfectly reasonable to take that at face value. I mean, when my best friend died, I spent a lot of time with her widower, it was one of her last wishes that I make sure he'd be okay, and it never even crossed my mind that he'd owe me sex for all the support I gave him. That's skeevy as hell.

[Katsullivan]

14 hours ago, possibilities said:

Oh show, I love you.

I think it's perfectly reasonable and normal for the best friend of a dead person, to care about and want to help the dead friend's surviving spouse and kid. I think Nicole was perfectly reasonable to take that at face value. I mean, when my best friend died, I spent a lot of time with her widower, it was one of her last wishes that I make sure he'd be okay, and it never even crossed my mind that he'd owe me sex for all the support I gave him. That's skeevy as hell.

THIS. I severely side eye all the claims that Nicole was using Pat because he was offering help and she accepted it. 

And that's not even touching the fact that, as @ursula pointed out: Nicole is in this position because Pat murdered her husband. The fact that people are doing mental gymnastics to pain Nicole as the villain for not being nicer to the murderer of her husband is... astounding. 

Edited November 4, 2019 by Katsullivan

[peace355]

Even putting the whole murder thing aside, Pat still isn't entitled to date Nicole because he helped her out. Nicole did care about him, but doesn't mean she wanted to date him and for Pat to go off on her because she said no is huge red flags.

Also totally agree that it wasn't necessarily that Pat was such a nice guy that it was surprise that he was the villain, but so many tropes in tv/film that would make him the good guy really.

Edited November 6, 2019 by peace355

[Anela]

On 11/3/2019 at 9:40 PM, possibilities said:

Oh show, I love you.

I think it's perfectly reasonable and normal for the best friend of a dead person, to care about and want to help the dead friend's surviving spouse and kid. I think Nicole was perfectly reasonable to take that at face value. I mean, when my best friend died, I spent a lot of time with her widower, it was one of her last wishes that I make sure he'd be okay, and it never even crossed my mind that he'd owe me sex for all the support I gave him. That's skeevy as hell.

Agreed. This is how I took it, too. 

I usually catch on to twists, but damn, they got me, because: Jason Ritter. I hated seeing him turn into the "nice guy" but good job, he had me fooled before. I wasn't expecting him to be the big bad, either, but I should have, since he was there, and didn't seem to be showing signs of anything. The people at Biona ended up really wanting to help, and the one guy they trusted, was the murderous asshole. 

I had been hoping that the people were somehow in an alternate universe, or something, so that Dion could get his dad back, and Nicole could have her husband back. Dion was so sweet, wanting to protect his mother, and try to heal Pat.