Maximum Taco

First post says book spoilers should be in tags. Show spoilers are open I believe in here.

Pyp: You're not afraid? Sam: Of course I'm afraid. There's a band of wildlings coming to kill us Pyp: Well if you're afraid of a band of wildlings how in seven hells did you manage to kill a white walker? Sam: I didn't know I was going to kill it, but I had to do something. I didn't have any choice, it was going to kill Gilly and take the baby. If someone had asked me my name right then, I wouldn't have known. I wasn't Samwell Tarly anymore. I wasn't a steward in the Night's Watch or the son of Randyll Tarly or any of that. I was nothing at all. And when you're nothing at all there's no more reason to be afraid. Pyp: But you're afraid now? Sam: Yes, well, I'm not nothing anymore.

All fair arguments. But most of your argument have to do with the language that's used. "weapon", "sword", "glows" You're arguing the letter of the prophecy over the spirit. Language has already been shown to be fairly mutable in these prophecies. I mean we didn't know that the Prince that was Promised could be a girl (princess) until Aemon told us that the original term is genderless. Something can easily be lost in translation here. Sword could be a metaphor, or it could be a language that doesn't differentiate between weapons well. I don't remember them saying that Lightbringer glows all the time or even at all, just that it is a red sword, a burning sword, a sword of living fire. To me that sounds like it could be referring to Drogon. You could argue that Dany didn't kill Drogo with the express purpose of birthing dragons. But it still remains that they were born on his funeral pyre. So his sacrifice still led to their birth. But really, who the hell knows? I've also heard the theory that the Night's Watch is Lightbringer as detailed in the post above (because they are the sword in the darkness, the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn.) It really could be anything. I'm also happy to agree to disagree.

I don't think I'm understanding what you're saying. I don't like JS being freed from his NW oath because it's quibbling with the rules. It's saying "Oh technically, he died, so he's free from the oath." It's Jon (and GRRM) getting out of an obligation by using underhanded means. It's like me promising you 100 dollars and then giving you a Eastern Caribbean 100 dollar bill, technically I fulfilled my obligation, actually I abused the language we used ("You never said American dollar!") How do dragons taking the place of a sword violate the spirit of the prophecy? It violates the letter of the prophecy most certainly, but the spirit (IMO) remains unchanged: It's still about a hero(ine) forging a weapon to fight against the darkness by the sacrifice of a loved one. Dany isn't cheating the system any by this and GRRM isn't abusing any definitive rules he made for his world. It's just an alternate interpretation. Did you feel cheated when Sansa didn't really defeat a giant at the gates of Winterfell?

Many people subscribe to the dragons (either one or all three) being Lightbringer and Khal Drogo playing the part of Nissa Nissa. Dany tried three times to hatch the eggs finally succeeding with the sacrifice of her love (Khal Drogo) just like Azor Ahai tried three times to forge the sword before using Nissa Nissa's blood to temper it. The dragons also satisfy Maester Aemon's complaint that Stannis' Lightbringer emits no heat, the dragons definitely emit heat.

LOL, I don't think Connington would do anything to spite Rhaegar's child by Lyanna. I think he just wants to support Aegon because he failed his father (who he loved). If he knew about Jon I hink he'd want to support him too, although it would be a bit harder to put a bastard on the throne. I don't know how much Jojen and Meera know. I wouldn't be surprised, it seems like Howland told them a lot of stories, and Meera did say that the story of how the wolf maid became the Queen of Love and Beauty is a sad story that deserves it's own telling, implying she knows a lot. Thanks for mentioning The Knight of the Laughing Tree anyway, it made me reread that chapter and that really solidfied my thoughts about Ashara Dayne as well.

Alliser Thorne was a boss last episode. Hell I might even support him for full time Lord Commander. Ser Alliser: Do you know what leadership means Lord Snow? It means that the person in charge gets second guessed by every clever little twat with a mouth. But if he starts second guessing himself, that's the end. For him, for the clever little twats, for everyone. This is not the end. Not for us. Not if you lot do your duty for however long it takes to beat them back. And then you get to go on hating me, and I get to go on wishing your wildling whore had finished the job. Ser Alliser: I said 'nock' and 'hold' you cunts! Does 'nock' mean 'draw'?! Watchmen: No ser! Ser Alliser: Does fucking 'hold' mean fucking 'drop'?! Watchmen: No ser! Ser Alliser: You all plan to die here tonight?! Watchmen: No ser! Ser Alliser: That's very good to hear! DRAW! Ser Alliser: Brothers! A hundred generations have defended this castle; she has never fallen before and she will not fall tonight. Those are Thenns at our walls; they eat the flesh of the men they kill. Do you want to fill the belly of a Thenn tonight?! Tonight we fight! And when the sun rises I promise you: Castle Black will stand! The Night's Watch will stand! With me now! Now with me!

Ah! See I figured he never did, because it's implied that Connington was in love with Rhaegar himself and he displays a lot of scorn towards Elia Martell because of it. I figured if he knew about Lyanna Stark he would've displayed an equal (or perhaps even greater) amount of scorn for her, because once again a woman supplanted him in his affections for Rhaegar, and this time the woman can be seen as the main reason for Rhaegar's death.

Did I miss something in ADWD? What makes you think Connington knows the truth? Howland Reed was at the ToJ with Ned and Aerys' Kingsguard so he makes sense, but why Connington?

That assumes that you can warg a dragon. Also the way it's described in the books by the wildling wargs you need to form a lasting bond, especially with "untamable" animals. Arya (or whoever) would need to spend a lot of time with a dragon to be able to warg it. Especially since dragons seem very particular That's why you don't see Bran just warging random creatures, it's always just Summer or Hodor until the three-eyed crow teaches him differently.

That was fun I guess. It still felt lacking though, probably because it was just wall to wall action, and a couple small death scenes in the middle. I fully understand why they didn't include Stannis tonight though, this had to be a Night's Watch victory, having Stannis come in and save everyone would've felt a bit hollow and unsatisfying. Now that they managed to hold through the night on their own, it'll be ok for him to come in next episode and sweep up the remaining wildling hoard. I kind of also expected Grenn to fill Donal Noye's shoes, but losing Pyp was rough. Now we're just left with a bunch of faceless Night's Watchmen. But I kind of understand what's going on here, with Stannis and Co storming into the Castle Black story it's kind of necessary to clear out some of the more recognizable faces to make way for Team Baratheon.

I think it's a cop out. The creators of the Night's Watch and the people who first endorsed that oath did not do it in a world where resurrection was a thing that was possible. A promise until death was an unbreakable promise. Jon leaving the Watch after resurrection may not be against the letter of the law but it is definitely against the spirit. I've never liked the quibble as a plot device when it's being used by the heroes against the so called "villains." The heroes should not be resorting to dirty tactics to win. And to me Jon is one of the heroes in this story that has very few heroes. In the Merchant of Venice, Shylock was entitled to that pound of flesh, nobody made Antonio agree to the (obviously insane) conditions of the loan, he did it knowing full well that failure to repay would mean death. And then he gets out of it cause "Oh! I didn't say you could take any of my blood!" This is the same, Jon made that pledge knowing that he would be a watchman for the rest of his life. He should be a watchman for the rest of his life. And any subsequent lives he might have. Let's also look at the oath as a whole. It doesn't say all those promises disappear when he dies, just that his watch ends then. He still promises to take no wife, hold no lands, father no children, wear no crowns, and win no glory. He promises to live at his post, if he dies and is now living again does that nullify his original promise to live at his post? I don't think so. And finally he pledges his life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come. Not all the nights until he dies, but all the nights to come. That, to me, should mean that if he is capable of serving the watch he should be.

Except Jon forsook all lands and crowns when he took the Night's Watch oath. You don't get out of it because you're a Targaryen, it's the reason why Aemon took the oath in the first place. One thing that will aggravate me is if Jon ends up anywhere but the Wall (or the grave), unless GRRM ends the series with the complete eradication of the Night's Watch. Personally I hate the awful logic of the theory that if he died in ADWD and Mel brings him back with R'hollor kiss magic in TWOW then he is no longer bound by his oath, cause death severed the oath he took. That's bull.

Best Last Words 5. "Say her name! Say it!" 4. "Dany, please!" 3. "It's nothing." 2. "We can end this war in a fortnight." 1. "Mother."

Over half those people have been completely relegated to featured extra status for most of the unsullied/unspoiled. The only people the casual viewer is gonna care about are Jon, Sam, Ygritte, and Gilly (and even then not really Gilly, but Gilly for the sake of Sam.) Really if you tried to bring up any of the others to an unspoiled person it would almost certainly be met with a "who?" Also "Thenn Warg" really? I don't even know (or care) who that guy is, and I've watched every episode like twice and read the books like 5+ times.

Aegon is almost certainly a false dragon. Not sure if hes a Blackfyre, it seems fairly ambiguous and circumstantial based on published material. He might just as easily be a boy with Targaryen colouring, silver hair and purple eyes don't necessarily make a Targaryen/Blackfyre, some of the Daynes have silver hair and purple eyes as well. Regardless, I'm almost positive Aegon will die, he's far too suitable for rule, and there is no way the series ends with someone like Aegon, someone who has been groomed to rule, on the throne. I doubt Dany will end up there either though. To me she's been tripping death flags for a while as well. But she'll have a glorious death, whereas Aegon will probably be eaten by a dragon, maybe Rhaegal, for poetic effect.

I believe he always had Aegon in mind. While Viserys was left to languish in his delusions and Dany was left to be Viserys' meek punching bag, Aegon was trained in history and warcraft and economics and all the other kingly qualities that Varys values. It's very clear (to me atleast) that Varys' main goal is putting Aegon on the throne because he's the most fit to rule. Not to mention that a son of Rhaegar has a better claim than Aerys' remaining children. I always thought the whole point of Viserys and Dany was to gain support for Aegon. Dany would be wed to Khal Drogo and gain an army of Dothraki screamers, Viserys would be wed to Arianne Martell and gain Dornish support as well as a foothold in Westeros where they could land their army under the noses of the Lannisters. He didn't expect Viserys and Drogo to die so quickly though and that, in addition to the dragons hatching (another unexpected event) kind of ruined his careful plans. And then Aegon deided to sail for Westeros on his own.

I don't think killing Aemon would simplify things more than sending him away. Jon sends him and Sam away pretty soon after the battle. It really depends on whether or not they pursue the Oldtown storyline. If Sam stays at the Wall I can see them killing Aemon in this battle, if they plan to send him to Oldtown they probably keep Aemon alive and send him with Sam.

I think the term loyalist might be misleading. I don't think Ser Alliser was all that loyal, his house was simply from the Crownlands and he owed allegiance to King's Landing, either that or he simply chose the wrong side. And he ended up being unlucky that Tywin (who as Tyrion says is "fond of sticking heads on pikes") was the one who took the city. If Robert had been the one to take King's Landing I think he might have been willing to grant a lot of pardons that Tywin didn't.

Wow, they are hyping this pretty hard. I have a feeling a lot of us are gonna be disappointed.

IIRC he doesn't pick up the crossbow until after he kills Shae. First he strangles her with the hands of gold (which are always cold), and then he picks up the crossbow to confront his father.

Well in the books he was a Targaryen loyalist who stood against the Lannisters during the Sack of King's Landing. Lord Tywin gave him the choice between death or taking the Black. He reasonably chose the Wall.

Granted! Cat did not care for Jon Snow at first, but as he grew into a handsome young man who so resembled the long dead Brandon Stark, she felt the old stirrings of red hot passion that she had never felt with Ned. Oh make no mistake, she loved Ned to be sure, but theirs was a comfortable love into which she had settled, not like the pure desire she had for Brandon. She still begged Ned to send the boy away, not because she hated him, but because she questioned her ability to deny her feelings. And when Ned had left for King's Landing without giving Jon permission to join the Night's Watch... well it was only a matter of time before she succumbed to her desire. If only Robb had not entered her chambers without knocking. "I have no choice..." The Stark in Winterfell thought as he marched his mother and half-brother out to the castle yard and ordered Ser Rodrik to fetch the headsman's block. As his father had taught him 'The man who passes the sentence should swing the sword...' I wish Theon had warned Robb about the Ironborn Invasion.

That's a shame, but it's also deliciously cruel that the writers/producers want to leave the unspoiled twisting in the wind in regards to Tyrion's fate.

It's only corny if they both mean it. It's actually kind of cruel if Trystane is doing it to secure the marriage before executing his secret plan to crown her Queen. Remember that Myrcella is around 16 (I think?), she'd probably fall for the sweet lines Trystane is spouting.