PBGamer89

I watch for good dancing too, and unfortunately majority of that is the female celebs. But the boredom of Jordan comes from the fact that I see zero growth in him. His dancing will be in the finale the same it was in the premiere (probably day 1 of rehearsals too), and I don't see a performance or emotional growth. Just the same exact dancing from week 1 to the finals. At least some female ringers in the past had some struggles they improved on (Laurie's gymnastic habits, Paige trusting Mark/herself, etc). With Lindsey this season she's a great dancer, I suspect there's minor dance training, but not even close to what Jordan has, but I'm seeing herself go out of her comfort zone and be more emotional and real, as opposed to the usual quirkiness she exudes on stage. Not to mention, I don't connect at all with Jordan's personality, seems a bit fake or self assured.

Back in S16 when Jazz and Contemporary were added to permanent rotation, you either did one or the other, not both. Now, you have most couples doing both, sometimes back to back, you have various couples in the finals who have 1 or 2 Ballroom/Latin styles undone. I would personally keep Contemporary and nix Jazz, no one on the show really knows how to do it right and it just comes off looking like a pre-finals freestyle, which makes the freestyles in the finals look like something thats already been done. My view is that if you give someone a song that doesn't fit a typical Latin/Ballroom style, change the song. Kellie/Derek's Jazz was one of the only Jazz pieces on this show that actually resembled a Jazz that could be done on SYTYCD.

Bringing this into perspective: about the special treatment. It's one thing to not give the under 18 crowd the Rumba for instance and that's understandable. but look at certain celebs. James for example: He avoided both party Latin dances (that he likely would've struggled with) Salsa and Samba. He had Paso and Cha Cha Week 2 and 3 and then basically no fast Latin dances until his semifinals trio Jive, a Latin dance that doesn't require hip action. Then in the finals he got a repeat Foxtrot, a style he tied for top on the premiere. Then the following night on the fusions he got two Ballroom styles as his fusion. I've never seen someone avoid Latin in such a way.

They used to announce each couple that safe but with the time constraint at the end they only have time to say the jeopardy couples. until they get less couples they'll do it this way

Based on what? I'm looking at a "whose your favorite couple" poll right now and Jordan has the most, followed by Frankie and Lindsey with a measly 15%. I hope they eventually score her appropriately. Each week she's underscored. Her Jive should've gotten the first 10's, last week should've been at least a 27 or 28, tonight should've been a 30 and even her Salsa should've gotten a 9.

Including male/female there have been far more male celebs in the top 2.

Yet Normani got twice the hate Jordan will ever get. I'm just seeing constant love for Jordan and Frankie and Lindsey gets the "oh she was good too i guess". I just don't like the current narrative from last season where the women get shafted and underscored and the men get away with basically anything.

Yet all 24 seasons have only given us two female/female top 2. Each other has been male/male or female/male. How many times has 1 female celeb been left in a sea of 3 or 4 male stars. Even if a girl wins they are usually the last one standing for a couple weeks. In general, there's a male bias; in scoring, in dance order, in judge and fan perception. The women get slaughtered in most seasons, leaving one or two from Week 7/8 and beyond and generally the women get more "i don't connect with the them, too experienced, too happy, too bitchy, etc" comments. You wanna give me the only two times we had all female finalists and the gazillion other times there's been only 1 female finalist or the numerous more times we got male/male top 2. Not to mention S23 was the only season the first 4 elims were male celebs. Every other season, in the first 4 elims, you get at least 1 or two women gone. In this season alone we've already lost 3 women to only 1 man. No because it meant that even with a women winning, you had a male celeb get twice the pimpage she got, regardless of whether he lost. The fans loved James each week, yet you don't know how many times I saw such criticism and hatred for Laurie each week. Some even saying the lost Canadian vote made James lose, a fact some people still spew 1 year later. So even when a women wins, it gets questioned constantly.

With the constant slobbering over the guys and refusing to get real with Jordan or even put him towards the beginning of the show. He's been 6th twice and after that each time, even dancing last twice already, I doubt it now especially now that her scores have been lower than they should be all season. Girl hasn't gotten one completely deserved score any week. Always at least a point or two too low or more. The more this happens week to week, the more the audience gets brainwashed that she's not good enough to win.

I just meant that we've hit a new meta where the best female celeb will only manage 3rd place. You have mediocre guys like Terrell and Drew earning 9's, Frankie somehow getting a 29 and Jordan getting a 30 despite a hip hop/stepping break in the middle that judges usually call out especially in a ballroom dance. I'm disappointing with Len, usually he keeps it real but that dance was not a 30. Jordan is facing NO backlash, ZERO, but god forbid a female come on with experience and the clock starts ticking at the premiere. Ok, Laurie won s23, but remember the James slobbering pimpage all season (calling him unbeatable, the best male celeb ever on the show, etc). I'm still shocked Laurie still pulled the win with all that going on.

Tonight really highlighted how I truly don't think a female celeb will ever win again. Terrell does a mediocre at best dance and gets a 9. Frankie does a good acting job of the AT but not the greatest technique... two tens. Jordan does a fine Foxtrot but includes hip hop for a solid 10 seconds and all judges give him a 10, where Len and sometimes CAI and Bruno dock a point, you havce Drew who is forgettable and mediocre get a 9. Vanessa can't manage a 9 at all so far. Lindsey kills a Jive, only 9's, a super emotional Waltz and gets 9-8-9, kills her Foxtrot tonight but only manages one 10. Not to mention how we're at 4 female celebs to the 5 males. 4 eliminations and only 1 man has gone. Couple that with the female celeb massacre from last season and it's blaringly obvious. This season will end the same exact way last season did. Lindsey, Frankie, Jordan in the finals. Lindsey gets 3rd cause its the best females can hope for now, Frankie sneaks into 2nd place, and Jordan, the ringer manages the most predictable win possible.

My issue isn't that Jordan has training or less training than Heather, my issue lies in that every female ringer gets cut shockingly before their time, trashed every week on social media and forums (of course she can dance, she trained, she's already good it's so boring, etc), even the judges hold them to a higher standard. The issue is that Jordan is getting no backlash at all from being significantly more trained than the rest. No one turns, or spins like how he does without significant training. After coming off a season of Nancy, Simone, Normani, and Heather all of which got various degrees of hate or backlash, it's incredibly odd how everyone seems to be OK with Jordan completely just being a ringer and not having a thing to say about how boring it was how good he was from the beginning and showing no growth.

Not at all shocked Derek went. Found him forgettable each week. Lindsey could've and should've gotten a 10 but because it was a Ballroom dance, she didn't. Hate Contemporary on MMY night cause it's basically an easy dance for ringers. Called Jordan getting 10s for it last week when the style was announced for him. I don't understand why he's getting little to no backlash but god forbid a gymnast or female singer (Simone or Normani for example) danced well and got crucified each week for having a background. Thinking back I don't think a single male ringer has EVER gotten backlash. Jordan danced well but that's what happens when a Contemporary trained dancer does Contemporary. All 9's would've sufficed. Vanessa got underscored. Girl did a triple spin into a drop and got a 24. My theory is that it'll be announced that next week is a double elimination to bring the couples from 10 to 8, just in time for team dances on Week 6 as usual, and with a bunch of couples having the same score, we are likely to lose someone good because the judges can't actually judge properly on MMY.

Lindsey and Mark definitely had the dance of the season. Loved the concept AND content of that Jive! She's so quick but so much control and she's never been formally trained as a dancer. I really hate Jazz on this show, it's always a mess and comes off as a freestyle, mostly because the pros aren't trained in it and it's so open and broad. I agreed with Len about Jordan. Very, very little Charleston content. Can't believe that got 9's from CAI and Bruno. I wonder if he needs scores from low votes? I hope Terrell, Derek, or Nick go because honestly don't wanna lose a 3rd female celeb in a row. Nikki has been underscored every week and Sasha proved last week she was improving.

Still my point was not the presence of ringers but how female ringers are hated and crucified each week and told they dont belong, they're too good and it's not fair to the less trained. But you have Jordan getting little zero hate or backlash, even Alfonso, a huge male ringer got nearly zero ringer backlash. Jordan is the only ringer so shouldn't that mean more focus on his obvious training and dance background? No, but if Normani was on this season by herself without the buffer of Nancy, Heather or Simone, she would've gotten 10x the hate she got last season for being a ringer. Males getting treated way better in general that a male ringer it's just ten times easier. That's my point in a nutshell. I like ringers, but the hatred for the females versus the males is disgusting.

Honestly that could be said of about 90% of all male celebs since season 1.

In response to your first paragraph, I've said the same thing about Jordan; I can't support him/get into him because he's too trained and hasn't really spoken much about it. I don't mind ringers that are upfront or talk about it. But we're supposed to believe the man doing triple turns and articulating his hands and arms in a professional way is just a Disney kid turned Broadway actor? No. But when I say it, i'm hating on the men. I have never once voted for or supported a male celeb to win, because 9 times out of 10, the woman is the better dancer and has to work ten times as hard to get the same score or better and the respect from fans that'll call out any bitchy look on their face or comment they make in a package or backstage, while the mediocre males like Nick, Derek, Terrell, or Drew are still here after 2 eliminations and also why someone as dull and boring as Bonner made it past Nancy AND Heather, just two weeks shy of the finals. You wanna tell me a female celeb to make the same comments Terrell made in his package wouldn't result in this board filled with hatred and her probably saying her goodbye tonight? No, but he's a male celeb with an NFL backing so he's safe.

But Heather and almost every other female ringer ever cast whether it's an ice skater, gymnast, backup dancer, or girl group member gets constant hatred and criticism at every turn and yet you've had male ringers like Charlie, Alfonso, and now Jordan who've had none or very little backlash or hatred in their direction from judges or fans.

I know that plenty of women have won, but look at how many times a female top 2 occurred. Only 2 times (Melissa/Shawn, Amy/Meryl), every other season even if a woman did or didn't win, the top 2 was two men or a man and a woman. That alone shows how the audience favors men, even if a woman takes it. But with the way the show has gone last season and so far this season, it's like saying if you're a good female celeb that can dance well, there's hate and negativity or weird comments like "I just can't get into her, etc", the stuff spewed across all boards and social media about how unfair it was to have 4 female ringers was ridiculous because none of them even made the top 2 or won, any time a female ringer has won it's because they are extremely popular (Kristi, Meryl, Laurie) or they had a very popular pro (Amber, Kellie, Nicole). My cry isn't really that male ringers win, it's mostly in that no one seems to give a crap that they have had years of training and spew hatred and call fore them to get kicked off or that they are being overscored. The pro angle is workable in some scenarios, but it's not like people were itching for a Witney win on her second season. Jordan is good, i'm not blind, but it irks me to no end each time he dances that very few people call him a ringer and that it's unfair ; especially in this cast where he really is the only ringer, and it's just "he's so good, etc, etc". Yet I remember a large majority after every Normani dance or Heather dance "god they need to stop salivating over her; of course she's good, she has a dance background, enough!; I hope she goes home soon cause it's not fair she's in the cast". If there's some backlash at some point, I'll gladly welcome it and love the change in pace of a male ringer getting backlash, because it really is only fair especially after last season's slaughter of the female celebs. As a fan of each one last season it was a tough season to manage through watching your favorite get continually eliminated.

My biggest issue with the male ringers, they get excused for a variety of things, but last season with Simone, with Normani, with Heather, and even Nancy, it was "it's clear she's had training.......and i'm not ok with that or why is she on the show, she's had a dance background, or of course she's good she's a dancer it's boring, yet the men usually get "it's clear he's had training BUT" A woman is never gonna win again for those reasons, so sad.

Funny enough she was one of the ones considered for new co-host in season 10 before they went with Brooke.

IDK, but this season is turning into season 24 part 2. Women dropping like flies, while mediocre forgettable male celebs (Nick, Derek, Terrell, Drew) are hanging on for dear life. Terrell was rude to his pro and a fellow celeb in his package and had a crappy dance and still survived, yet if a woman did that she would've been saying her goodbyes tonight. Meanwhile you have Frankie getting a 9 (first one too) over Lindsey who, IMO, had the best dance of the night and even Jordan (more on that after) who were obviously better. Jordan is my other problem. Last season we had female ringers of all varying degrees (gymnast, girl group/singer, figure skater, and prior pro dancer) and they all to some degree got hate and backlash, all eliminated too early for having a dance background, yet not one SINGLE peep about Jordan who obviously is VERY trained. No one styles his hands and spins like that who has no training. Yet the fans and judges are not treating him any different but by god if that was a woman celeb; "it's unfair, she can move, she has experience, why is she on the show, etc". It's part of why I will never ever support a male celeb, they do almost nothing and get away with everything.

It's funny how people "put aside ringer stuff" for male celebs, but the moment a female celeb has any kind of dance background it's "she's a ringer, get her off, it's unfair, etc". The double standard the fans have it's ridiculous. He'll probably win and prove that people truly just hate talented female celebs.

Ivy is in on it, convinced.

Heather probably didn't go because she just started doing the DWTS tour last night and was probably rehearsing. I am surprised Mel B didn't go they got along well even years after.