suomi

They're going into formation, gonna DEAL with this herd

Doesn't look like anything serious with Coral.

Less than 15 minutes left. This ep flew by.

I agree, a much seedier aspect. We are privy to RK's increasing doubts and misgivings throughout Schiller's book. The more I read about those the more I wondered how the fuck this guy managed to stand by someone he came to realize was a murderer. I mean, I dumped a friend who balled her husband's brother and passed the baby off as her husband's. Because I thought it was vulgar and common behavior and who needs friends like that? I don't. I think whitewashing RK's reputation was the price he charged for sharing all that inside-the-defense-team information.

From Schiller's American Tragedy, about 3/4 into the kindle version, during the defense presentation:

I've read parts of three books this week and now I can't remember which one reported this conversation: Someone in the case was at LAX where they were recognized by a pair of skycaps. They talked about the case for a few minutes and the skycaps pointed out something about the availability of trash cans at the curb. "These big ones here?" "No, the small ones. They fill up quickly so they get emptied every 30 minutes." re Kardashian with one of OJ's bags, IIRC, RK walked away from Rockingham the next morning with a suit bag slung over his shoulder. Umbelina, I did read something about the video not showing the socks and I will go back and look for that. At least I know which three books it's in. Some things which bear repeating: the drops of blood with the pigeon-toed trail of shoe prints on the sidewalk at Bundy were seen by the very first officer(s) who arrived, when Fuhrman was asleep, and when OJ was in Chicago. His blood had not been drawn yet, no one had the slightest clue yet that the prints were made by fairly rare shoes, or that OJ owned and wore the same style and size, and suggesting that the LAPD realized they needed to create a pigeon-toed trail of shoe prints is laughable. The drops of blood at the Bronco, the drops leading to the gate, the drops on the driveway, the drops on the front porch and inside the entry were seen by numerous individuals while OJ was in Chicago and before his blood was drawn. Fuhrman saw blood on the outside of the Bronco, using his flashlight. It was full dark so he couldn't see much detail inside the Bronco, and he looked only through the driver's window. About 90 minutes later Roberts saw the blood inside because he looked through the passenger window which gave him a fuller/better (although not closer) view of the driver's area, and because more light was available. Again, this was while OJ was still in Chicago and before his blood was drawn. Then, the rare shoe print in Nicole's blood where the driver rested his foot in the Bronco. And that's about 5% of the evidence.

From Schiller's book American Tragedy: [Prosecutor] Goldberg then asked [Dr Henry] Lee about his most famous case. An airline pilot was convicted of killing his wife and using a wood chipper to scatter her body across a snow-covered riverbank. Lee had used DNA tests to identify the victim's remains and help convict the husband. Cross-contamination hadn't been a problem, even though tiny bits of the corpse were mixed in collecting buckets with deer bones and other riverbank debris. "And despite that, sir, it was proper ... to attempt DNA technology on this evidence, is that correct?" Goldberg asked. "That's correct," Lee said. Fortunately for OJ, and unfortunately for Ron and Nicole, the jury felt the same way.

Kardashian's main roles were barometer, psych tech and tranquilizer. They had been friends for so long that he knew OJ's moods and wants and needs like no one else; he reflected (OJ's version of) reality back at him. OJ ran off at the mouth so much that no one could stand being around him for very long. Bob was recruited to listen and listen and listen some more. OJ couldn't stand being alone, and not controlling everything and everyone. Being locked up made him even nuttier than usual. Bob was recruited to reminisce about good times and look ahead to more good times. If you catch the right version you will see that Kardashian wiped away tears when the verdict was read. First under his glasses and then he gave into it and removed his glasses. But, yeah, tears. For Nicole, I think. He went to the victory party but they weren't on good terms for very long. When he was actively dying he refused OJ's phone calls. That says a lot right there. From Fuhrman's book: The first officers at Rockingham at 5AM were partners Vannatter and Lange, and Fuhrman and his boss Ron Phillips. They stood at the gate repeatedly ringing the bell and not getting an answer. Fuhrman figured three officers could handle ringing the bell so he ran the plates on the 300ZX parked there (Kato's) and then turned his attention to the Bronco. The hood was cold to the touch and there was a 12-inch broken piece of white-painted wood on the ground at the front of the car, not matching anything visible in the immediate area. Using his flashlight, Furhman saw a spot that looked like blood above the handle on the driver's door and brush lines of the same color on the driver's doorsill. He looked thru the windows and saw a package on the seat addressed to OJ Simpson. He told the others that he thought it was blood and Phillips said "If Mark thinks it's blood, it's blood." Vannatter told him to run the plates on the Bronco; it was registered to Hertz. With this new slant on the situation, Fuhrman (most junior officer and youngest one present) hopped the fence and opened the gate. After they woke up Kato, he gave permission for Fuhrman to look around inside his bungalow. One of the questions Fuhrman asked was "Anything unusual happen last night?" That's when and why Kato mentioned the thumps on his wall at 10:45, and that's when and why Fuhrman walked behind the bungalow and saw the glove. He called the others back for a look; Phillips and Vannatter were interested, Lange not so much. Vannatter sent Fuhrman and Phillips back to Bundy to take another look at the glove there and see if it appeared to match the one at Rockingham. (color, left/right, lining). They got to Bundy around 7AM and eyeballed the glove and decided it looked like a match. It was photographed where it was found. The photog and Fuhrman and his partner Brad Roberts drove to Rockingham, and the second glove was photographed where it was found. Vannatter walked over while Fuhrman was briefing Roberts on the Rockingham scene, mentioning how hard it had been earlier to see inside the Bronco. Roberts looked thru the passenger side window and said "There's blood all over the inside." Fuhrman went to that window and saw smears on the console, steering wheel, seats, door panels. Roberts then saw blood drops on the street leading to the Rockingham gate. They followed those drops to more drops across the driveway inside the gate, to a drop just outside the front door, to more drops just inside the front door. They called Vannatter over and he said "This is a crime scene. Get everybody out of the house." So Arnelle, Kato, etc got the boot ...

Thank you!

: ( I can't find that thread. If you read this, could you point me in the right direction? TIA

IIRC after awhile, when the Bronco follow went on and on, the follow filled the screen and the NBA game was down in the corner.

Maybe, but I don't think so. He probably wanted to but surely he was advised that it would be a fraudulent conveyance.

Because we keep hearing that the Goldmans cleaned him out: http://thetrustadvisor.com/news/20-years-after-the-bronco-chase-how-did-o-j-simpsons-5-million-asset-protection-strategy-pay-off

At Rockingham, Fuhrman's partner Brad Roberts found black sweats in the washing machine, freshly washed, and blood smeared on the light switch in the laundry/service area. Roberts was never called to testify and had he done that he would have verified the history of numerous pieces of evidence at both scenes. But, Vannatter broke a cardinal rule when the case was transferred from Fuhrman and Roberts to Lange and Vannatter: he didn't read Fuhrman's case notes. The biggest fuckup resulting from that was overlooking the bloody fingerprint on the back gate at Bundy (until 2 weeks later) and (evidently) not checking for prints on the coin(s) lying in the alley next to that gate. So, in protecting her lead detective/Vannatter, Marcia compromised all kinds of good evidence (and what remained of Fuhrman's reputation).

Both OJ and AC had white Broncos. The blood evidence was in the one belonging to OJ. Plus all those hambone, mouth breather faces he was making.

Assume that the killer wore a pair of gloves, not just one glove. A glove for the right hand, and only the right hand, was found at the Bundy crime scene. There were bloody shoe prints on the walkway (determined to be men's size 12, OJ's size) leading away from the bodies to the back gate. Do we know why Fuhrman and his partner Roberts were the ones who saw the glove at Bundy? Yes. They were the first detectives called to the scene; they arrived about an hour after the first uni responded and saw the bodies. The initial unis cleared the scene (determined that there was not a perp was on the premises) and secured the scene. The unis did not "look" for evidence because that was not their job. They reported what they observed during a cursory examination after arriving on scene: blood drops falling to the left of bloody shoe prints on the walkway, and the detectives saw that as well. When the right hand glove was found and the left hand glove was not, that appeared to gibe with blood drops to the left of the shoe prints. Those drops were observed by the unis while Fuhrman was still asleep at home. The defense planted seeds of unreasonable doubt when they posited that the drops came from someone in a stationary position, ie: a cop with an eye dropper. As if someone leaving a murder scene might not and did not momentarily pause in flight for various reasons: a nearby door or window opening, hearing a voice, a vehicle passing by in the alley, shushing a dog who was whining or barking. At Rockingham, there most certainly were blood drops leading from the Bronco toward the front door. Not as if someone had a gushing wound (No One Ever suggested that) but a sporadic and linear path of blood drops. And IIRC nothing about stationary drops was posited by the defense here; evidently there was no hesitating - someone was on "safe" ground and in a hurry. Fuhrman and Roberts flagged the drops on the driveway for collection and were nonplussed when they noticed Forensics setting their own flags and collecting every 3-4 drops rather than every drop. But it was no longer their case so they had to shrug it off. Inside the foyer, the trail of blood drops continued. So yes, there was blood evidence leading from the Bronco, up the driveway and inside the house. I wish someone would explain how the collection and storage bungled the identification. Not just say it, explain it. It's not like Any of the samples resulted in Female/unidentified or Male/Unidentified. All of the samples identified as OJ Simpson, Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman, singly or mixtures of those three persons. Why did Not Even One sample come back as Unidentified/Inconclusive? Bloody size 12 Bruno Magli shoe print where the driver sat in the Bronco? Nicole Simpson. Let's put it this way: if the DNA results had been inconclusive (rather than conclusive), the defense would have promoted the purity and verity of LA County's DNA testing from sea to shining sea. But, all kinds of things go on when you know your boy is guilty.

His first attorney Howard Weitzman introduced Shapiro to the case. Because, Weitzman quickly realized that OJ was guilty and Shapiro was The Master of Plea Bargains in El Lay cases.

Thank you, Umberlina, for the many links you have posted. As an old-timer (44 in '94) everything about this case is familiar to me and I'm glad that you are providing context for those who are just now coming to it. I've heard and read from some (both then and now) who hear Ashford and Rockingham and think the house was at a T-intersection with one driveway. So I think the property diagrams are especially useful. Another thing to keep in mind is that Simpson was exceptionally handsome, and people with pleasantly arranged facial features have a finger tipping the evaluation scale. He had a megawatt smile and was rarely seen by the public without it. Playing for USC in '67, he ran 64 yards for a touchdown against UCLA, which tied the game, and then 'SC won by one point. I can still see and hear my grandfather standing and screaming about that. It was one of the greatest football games ever, nationwide, and especially so in SoCal because of the cross-town rivalry. The dour (but still handsome) face in the courtroom is not the face seen by millions on TV and movie screens for nearly 30 years (30 years!) before the murders.

There were some shelves hidden behind mirrors, IIRC in the master bath or his walk-in closet/dressing area.

This reminded me of something that happened last week and I forgot to mention it. Joe was blathering on about one of his secret sources, it was someone highly placed, he couldn't mention the name, blah blah blah, and a male voice at the table belted out "Say it!" No clue as to who said it because the camera was on Joe but it was funnnnny.

This is my favorite Bugliosi analogy: He cut and polished this one specifically for the Simpson trial:

Judge Ito demonstrated poor taste and no common sense by commenting on and complimenting the debut of Marcia Clark's "new 'do" in open court.

Exactly. Thank you. During the 6-day preliminary hearing in July '94, before anyone except Fuhrman had heard of his former friend-with-benefits Laura McKinny, he was asked if he had ever addressed anyone as the N word. He answered "No." Addressing someone means speaking to them directly. He was also asked if he had described anyone as being the N word. To that question he waffled and said "I can't answer that question the way you asked it." There was some back and forth re possible confusion and then he answered "No." This was six months before the trial began in January '95, before the prosecutors had a clue that Fuhrman had a past. The prosecutors received a ton of shit for using Fuhrman as a witness in their case but he found their evidence and if they didn't call him they knew the defense would, and the only reason for the defense to call him would be to dirty him up. There are many versions of this trial lawyers' saying but the gist remains: When the facts are on your side, pound the facts. When the law is on your side, pound the law. When neither is on your side, pound the table. (or, pound opposing counsel. or, pound opposing counsel's witness) In September '95, eight months into the trial, Fuhrman was recalled as a trial witness and invoked the Fifth for three (and only three) questions. "Was the testimony that you gave at the preliminary hearing in this case completely truthful?" "Have you ever falsified a police report?" "Did you plant or manufacture any evidence in this case?" As soon as you invoke the Fifth that must contine to be your response to every question that follows. You cannot invoke on some questions while answering others. The defense could have asked Fuhrman if he killed Jimmy Hoffa and Sam Giancana and he would have had to invoke the Fifth. Trial lawyering at its finest, ladies and gentlemen. http://articles.latimes.com/1995-09-07/news/mn-43219_1_detective-mark-Fuhrman I disagree with the sentiment above, even though it is widely held, because the pain and fear Ron and Nicole suffered while losing their lives was a completely separate matter from previous injustices practiced by the LAPD. What was done to them and to their families was an injustice in the name of righting injustice.

Sounds like we read the same ones and skipped the same ones. Imagine my surprise when I looked for Toobin's book on Amazon today and found out that it was published in 1996. Whut?!? So I thought you and some others might like to know that.

I think for me the major issue was how the collection and handling of the blood evidence was presented by the defense. Their spin was beyond dishonest and misleading but wasn't pushed back hard enough by the DAs and ended up being acceptable because of all the racial landmines planted by the defense. Mishandled blood evidence would either degrade and no longer be of use or, if still viable, the results would be inconclusive. Improper collection, handling and storage would not, could not, and did not result in DNA "framing" an innocent person, ie: false positives. Just ask OJ's lawyers Scheck and Neufeld, who founded The Innocence Project. Oh, wait ... The jury didn't care because they didn't want to care. Marcia Clark was a white bitch. Chris Darden was an Uncle Tom. Nicole was a white bitch who stole a brother from his pregnant black wife. A black man who yells at and hits his woman doesn't kill. The white LEOs who beat black Rodney King were acquitted. The white LAPD had a history of racial prejudice against blacks. Cochran needed protection so he was escorted to court by the Nation of Islam which at that time was fervently anti-white. (All of those opinions/factoids are from jurors who were willing to speak, or jury selection consultants, or then-current articles/books and radio/tv interviews/discussions).