apinknightmare

I think he's not going to let them know that he's alive right away, and that's why Felicity's going to be mad as hell at the end of 3x12. Because it'll have been at least three weeks (provided there's not a small time jump between this last ep and the next) or more and he didn't let them know he was still alive. My crack theory is that he uses steganography to somehow alert Diggle that he's still alive and breathing, and that Oliver, Diggle and possibly Roy are in on some plan to get him back and they don't tell Felicity about it just in case it goes wrong.

Maybe he and Roy go have a chat with her after they implore Laurel to stop being a dumbass.

If they were trying to show her being wrong they did a terrible job of it by having Digg and Roy clearly losing and out of their depth.

You're right, we are all in agreement. I guess I just didn't put that much stock into Roy or Diggle objecting because I think they were so focused on getting the dude who was trying to undo everything that Oliver had been working for that they wouldn't have ever admitted that they should've backed off. Kind of like how an injured football player wouldn't have wanted to be taken out of a game. But yeah, maybe it would've been better for them to admit she was right. I just...they were on foot against guys with machine guns in a van. To me it's obvious that Digg and Roy were the emotional ones not being reasonable, haha. Apparently it's not that obvious to some of the viewing audience.

After the guys DROVE AWAY IN A TRUCK, Felicity shut the garage door so Diggle and Roy couldn't follow them. Like...they were never going to catch the truck on foot, so...what's the big deal? I don't get it. The truck was already out of the garage by the time Roy hopped out of the service bay. It just wasn't going to happen.

But the thing is, they didn't put Felicity in the position of being blamed. If she had pulled the plug when Diggle and Roy had the upper hand and were winning and then Brick and his guys got away, that would've been throwing her under the bus - she would have made a bad decision that led to him escaping. The show set her up to be right. Diggle and Roy were losing, they were getting their assess handed to them, and they were not going to win. Felicity even made the argument that they were outnumbered and going up against machine guns with a bow and arrow. She was set up to be right, and she was right. If people blame her, then they're ignoring what was on the screen.

I disagree. If they were throwing Felicity under the bus for Laurel, Felicity would've had a freak out and done what she did while Diggle and Roy had the upper hand in that fight. They were getting their asses handed to them and they weren't going to win. They got mad about it, yeah, but that doesn't mean they were right. Given that a lot of people seem to think Felicity's a rude whiner now, some people may think this is her fault, but I thought the show sold her as being cautious, but correct.

I don't think there's anything wrong with her being involved in the design of the costume and having input and wanting it to look good at all. But based on the interviews that came out after the TCAs when he answers about Laurel taking up Sara's cause were basically the same, over and over, about how she's got a big heart and she's strong and Sara sort of fell into it but Laurel's such a good person that she's doing it voluntarily, etc. it's jarring to see her give more thoughtful answers about the costume than she ever did about the character. It seems like to her, the important part is the costume, not the person who's wearing it.

The newscaster did mention that Sara was on the boat and that she was survived by Laurel - that's when she turned off the TV. It was the first news she got of him being alive and was probably a very painful public reminder of everything she was trying to get past, and I just really don't see why anyone would have an issue with it.

She said that before they had the sword, when the team was still worried about him being missing and she was trying to give hope to people who were losing it. There was no statement about her still believing after Diggle told her he knew she didn't want to believe it, but Oliver wasn't coming back, only her insistence on wanting to know whether they were going to continue with their mission or not. So yeah, it could be more clear.

If it is because she really doesn't believe he's dead, I wish they'd made this more clear in the show. I can get why she would believe that (for the reasons you stated), but the non-reaction coupled with her grilling Diggle about whether or not they were going to continue just made it seem like she skipped over any emotion she might have had about it because she was so single-mindedly focused on putting that suit on - which is something that I also easily buy given what we've seen of her this season. Felicity also hasn't gotten a hit on the facial recognition search she was running on the hacked satellites. She said the second he moved she'd get a hit (or something along those lines). So, knowing that he went off to fight the most dangerous man any of them have ever faced (and his ruthlessness, etc. has been built into the lore of this show, so I get why they'd believe he's awful), he hasn't come back, they haven't heard from him, there's a sword with his blood all over it, and Malcolm said he fell into an unaccessible ravine combined with the fact that she hasn't gotten a hit on the searches she's running, I don't think it's weird at all that they believed him. Yeah, the plot wouldn't work if they didn't, but I also think the reasons for them believing him are, well, believable.

See, the only reason I'm not dreading it is because MG usually anticipates reactions that are opposite to what he gets. I'm anticipating Felicity pushing Oliver away, and as long as it's for reasons that stick with what they've set up so far (her being scared of losing him, her not trusting that he's serious, etc.) I won't be upset about it. He doesn't understand the difference between an audience being angry because something's OOC, and an audience being upset because they're moved by the storyline.

A friend of mine just floated this theory - with that spoiler going around that Oliver's going to dream about Felicity - is there a chance that the "I don't want to be a woman you love" is part of a dream?

That was a good read! And I was just thinking the same thing about Laurel's reaction to Oliver's death. Witty recaps are my fave.

I agree with you about Emily. I don't think she's the best crier, and I think that her stoicism is the issue. IMO she's fine when she's able to let loose with the actual emotion, for example, I liked her fight with Donna. She was crying and angry and I bought it. The nuance, like you wrote, just isn't there yet. But it doesn't take me out of the scene or anything, and I still feel for her even though the execution isn't always that great. She is best when she's allowed to be lighter, but I think she'll get better as time goes on. And yeah, I wasn't really moved by any of this. And it's not really the fault of the acting or the writing necessarily, but I know Oliver's not dead, so the emotional stakes just aren't there. It's difficult to be moved by any of this when I know Oliver's out there and alive and going to be coming back in two episodes.

I think that thing would be an actual bitch to run with. I liked Sara's collapsible bo staff. They should've just had her keep that, I mean...she's getting the rest of it. Maybe swinging a heavy baton (I can't remember its actual name) is easier for a novice and doesn't require a whole lot of skill? IDK.

So, no one's mentioned this, but am I the only one who thinks that Laurel took the news that Oliver's dead way too easily? She didn't even seem remotely upset by it at all. I know they don't mean the same thing to each other that they did when the Gambit went down, and maybe she just doesn't have any more tears to cry for Oliver Queen, but I did think that was strange. Did they purposely downplay this in order to give Felicity "losing the man she loves feels" spotlight, or maybe it was to cement her single-minded focus on the buckles? Not criticizing her, I just think it's interesting.

Okay. I just wasn't sure with the way the conversation about Laurel's decision to suit up was focused specifically on Felicity's decision when it was a group thing. ETA: And that's not me being argumentative, just explaining why I commented.

Last night was the first time I recall seeing it. Maybe it's getting a bit freezy in Hong Kong? Or Oliver needed it to be stealthy while zip lining into that window.

Yep, that very well could be. If that's it I just hope they're really careful about it and don't make Felicity look unreasonable in her anger. Like, have her ask him why he didn't let them know he was alive sooner and instead of saying something like, "I was hurt, I needed to recover," or "I was worried what Ra's would do when he found out I hadn't died and I needed to come up with a plan," that would make his story reasonable, he'd have to tell her that he thought it was for the best or something typically and stupidly Oliver.

But Laurel thought Diggle was quitting too, and it seemed like he might be, since he didn't give her an answer when she pressed him about whether he was going to continue or not. I can't remember where Roy stood at the end of the ep, but he also expressed doubts about whether or not they should continue without Oliver. Felicity was the only one who made an obvious choice, but I think we're meant to believe that Laurel suited up because everyone quit - not just Felicity.

I'm pretty sure that's current day Oliver - he has short hair, and there have been recent set pics of SA filming flashbacks with that stupid wig on. There must be some kind of a time jump between this ep and the last, because he looks fairly healthy there, and it seems like Maseo's gotten word of Brick doing his thing and taking over SC. It does look like she's smiling, but there was video of that day, and it seems like they did a few run throughs, so it could be that's a picture from a scene that they were rehearsing the stunt moves for. Or maybe she's crazy hopped up on Vertigo.

Thanks, SleepDeprived for compiling that! So, I guess her speaking up in a way that people won't expect could mean that she's going to say how she feels about Oliver but maybe not to him (because at that point she'll still think he's dead)? Maybe the Merlyn joint venture ends with something terrible or close to terrible happening and she finally loses her shit about being in love with him and having him die on her and whatever, whatever, and then the last shot we get is of Oliver standing on the top step of the Foundry waiting to come down, having overheard it all? Based on the 3x11 extended promo, I'm glad Felicity seems to be back in the foundry in 3x11 (I didn't think anyone would stay away long), and I really hope that she doesn't try to convince Laurel to trick Quentin (although with her recent string of losses, who even knows). I also hope the line from Laurel about noticing that Oliver and Felicity have feelings for each other is something cringe-worthy like "I know you guys are in love. You look at each other the way we used to," or something else that would have made me want to punch myself in the face.

Now that we know that Oliver's alive and that we will be seeing him in present-day at least a little throughout his absence, I'm also thinking that he won't be back in any significant way in 3x12. He could've been on set shooting scenes with Maseo, or making his way back to Starling, or whatever. Like others above, I think he'll show up in the city (or in the foundry or at someone's door) at the last second to pull viewers in to 3x13, and that Felicity's not going to be "mad as hell" at him. Since she's going to be vehemently opposed to partnering with Merlyn and she's obviously very worried that she's going to lose another friend, I wonder if that team up results in Diggle or Roy (maybe Laurel?) getting hurt or some other kind of catastrophe that makes her angry? I forget - what were the spoilers about this ep? That MG thought people would be upset with him and that he'd have to get off of Twitter (or something along those lines), but was that in reference to Oliver and Felicity? And we're supposed to find out for sure how Felicity feels about Oliver, but is that definitely in 3x12? And is "I don't want to be a woman you love" also for sure in 3x12, or did MG just say it was his favorite moment of an "upcoming episode"?

There were a couple (in the US, at least), but no BC trends. Even the mid season finale trend dropped off halfway through the west coast airing. And MG/CH/DR and EBR were tweeting during it. But they didn't for whatever reason use the same hashtags.