gutbuster

This is so STUPID.

I don't understand how everywhere else people are on essentially stuck on the same day, but Aaron's looking like he's been starving and struggling outside Oceanside for weeks.

So Daryl the tracker couldn't figure out Eugene's tracks ended in a pile of ash and therefore he must be hiding in said pile of ash?

I love Negan clutching his pearls at the idea of Jadis killing people "slowly" with a walker, when he beats people to death, slowly, with a bat. No self awareness. Why can't we know what is going on with that helicopter? Why can't we know what Carl wrote to his dad? Why can't Negan lose even a little bit? He suffers NO setbacks at all, even after something like this. Why do they drag out the tiny tidbits I'm actually curious about, and overwhelm us with all of this crap no one gives a shit about? I did like getting to see the good guys actually interact with each other for the first time in what feel like forever. Still want to like Morgan but, SOOO tired of Crazy Morgan :(. I thought Michonne was going to be disapproving and ask Rick for some "space" after he came back from his obvious murder spree.

Tobin's insatiable!

Hoe does Henry not realize you can shoot through a fence??

These people are really heavy sleepers. How is someone tumbling down the stairs not waking anyone? Why is the front door open???

It is hard to get behind Negan mourning Carl when he was one second away from killing Carl himself, before pop-up Shiva stopped him.

I'm fairly certain they also replay Talking Dead on AMC late Saturday night after they rerun the episode.

I hope not, but I tend to agree that the shocking moment is going to be at least one non-Savior death and we'll find out what, or who, Rick was weepy about in the time shift scene from the season premiere. So tired of the show killing off characters as their crutch for creating 'drama'. Please, Show, do something else. Other things can happen to shock us and make the show interesting. Sneak peek of next weeks episode, Michonne says "they got out?!". Uh, of course they got out. This was Daryl and Tara's big plan? Does Daryl not remember how his group of, what, 10 people or so, were able to clear an entire prison of walkers with less than what Negan has at the Sanctuary? And so next week is basically reset to season 7 premiere and Negan doing more of the same at Alexandria. I'm bored already. I enjoyed the guests this week. I always like Josh, and Austin seemed more relaxed than I remember him being last time. David was normal and adorable. Excited for the guests next week! Except for Gimple (a thorn between two roses).

Why was he sitting there with his hands bound? Wouldn't he have gnawed the ropes off his wrists?

I've been curious about this since last week's episode - I thought that the Alexandrians were still trying to prevent the Saviors from finding out that they know about and are working with the Hilltop, hence why Maggie, Daryl, etc all hid when the Saviors showed up. Sooo, why has Enid allowed herself to be seen by Saviors both at Alexandria and at Hilltop? She was similarly harassed by a Savior at Alexandria many episodes ago. She even pointed out that they were the same Savior group that came to Alexandria. Maybe one of the Saviors in this group put two and two together and that is Negan's 'little bird' who told him about Rick's plans? I'm really late to the discussion, but I read the whole thread before commenting and it's hard to keep up with all my shows like that and still have time to comment and be part of the active conversation :(. I get frustrated like most of you, but it takes A LOT for me to lose enjoyment or give up on my favorite shows even when they get so 'bad' that most people have jumped ship [I still watch(ed) Sleepy Hollow]. When it comes to this show, my main frustration with this Negan garbage is the repetition. So I understand when people complain about the writers 'wasting time'. Everything Negan said to Sasha is pretty much what he said to Eugene which is what he said to Daryl. We GET IT. I don't feel like they're showing or telling us anything that we didn't already know by the time the first couple of episodes this season were done. Have we learned anything about him through all of these speeches and extended episodes that warranted so much time spent on him? There's just more questions and no answers. Does/did he love anyone (other than the bat)? Did he love any one human? Can he love people? Why does he love that bat so much? What did he do before the end of the world? What exactly are his goals now? We knew the governor had a wife and daughter, he had Milton trying to figure out how to save Penny. What the hell is Negan doing? It seemed for a minute that he might be trying(?) to get Sherry pregnant in the first half of the season, is that why he has the harem? Does he want kids? He seemed to like Judith and Carl. Did he have a family before? Agh! Sasha and Carl tried to kill Negan, Daryl attacked him, and he essentially tried to recruit them. Rosita tried to kill him and he killed Olivia. Is it just because the bat got hurt? I wish they'd be a little more clear on what his thinking is. In writing this I forgot all about Oceanside. I agree that I didn't like seeing our group take this approach to taking the guns. Not because they're 'women and children', but because it seemed not the best way to get a group of isolationist skittish people, who are wary of aggressive strangers, on your side. The Oceansiders have been shown to be perfectly capable. They feed and house themselves. They have defenses and keep themselves safe. The kids were shown standing up to adults and taking down walkers. IIRC, they gave Tara the option of joining them but, when she refused, were going to kill her to keep their group safe (sort of like the Randall situation our group faced in season 2). A choice that after recent events would seem even more justified. I will agree that they could have given Tara a bit more than thirty seconds to try to negotiate with these people before blowing shit up and storming in. That was 100% ridiculous and did paint our group in a bad and stupid light. Knowing how wary Oceanside is, why didn't they send in Michonne with Tara, and maybe even Enid, too, just as a way of letting Oceanside see a little of themselves in our group. It may have made them a teensy bit more receptive than they were (even with their barging in, they still had Oceansiders who DID want to join the fight.) But why do any of that, when it would mean less time for the SFX team's explosions and Special Walker Makeup of the week. Going into the finale, I'm dreading a 'shocking' death. I don't want to lose anyone else. I really feel like the writing did not do enough or anything this season to justify the loss of Glenn, or anything compelling (Sasha and Rosita) to justify the loss of Abraham. I understand 'comics' but I don't care. I honestly don't see how I'd like Negan any less if any other random Alexandrian(s) had been shown being murdered the way Glenn and Abraham were. I will watch this show until the bitter, bitter end. I miss Glenn.

I believe Tara had a rapport with that girl from her first visit, where the girl flipped Tara off first or tried to kill her..?. and Tara flipped her off when she left Oceanside back then, too. I don't recall the specifics, but it was a callback to that.

Yeah, I was kind of hoping Mr. Stitch would turn out to be a 'good' demon that molly could learn how to 'control' and would allow her to have a bit of independence from the adults sometimes. He could've been like a bodyguard that would show up when she needed him, like when she was alone and got cornered with Dreyfuss. It does seem like they didn't think things through when it came to handling a child witness that, unlike Abbie or Ichabod, can pretty much never be left alone or defend herself against demons. At this point I almost wish she had legitimate demon fighting magical powers now, if only so she could protect herself and equalize with the adults a bit. I'm done with Dreyfuss. Dude is so weird and just The Worst. In all of his dialogue and interaction with Molly he had a very potent air of pedophile about him and obviously it came off as gross. I thought they were going to go into some kind of child bride territory the way he was talking about her. ech. I think I'm used to the new people now. Still don't really like them, but I don't actively dislike anyone really. I was more worried about Mr. David than of either of Jake or Alex possibly getting shot. Jake is my favorite new person, but I had zero concern that he narrowly avoided death when the shotgun blew a hole through the door, but I actually cried out 'Oh, No!' when Mr. Stitch went for Mr. David. I really didn't want Mr. David, who I've known for two minutes, to die, but couldn't care less about Diana or Alex getting killed off at any time. Odd. Anyway, I still like this show, I can't help it. I haven't loved it in a looong time, but I still look forward to it and I will miss it when it is inevitably and promptly cancelled.

I think it was the person who was watching with the binoculars at the end of the mid season finale.

I still like this show and am not ready to say goodbye yet, even though I miss SO much about what it started out as. Ichabod apartment hunting, putting together Ikea furniture, and essentially just being himself, is apparently still more than enough to make it so that I can't not watch the show when I know that it's on. It's weird, because I liked this episode even though I still dislike or hate most of the new characters, and the writing is still so ridiculous sometimes. I like Diana less with each episode and I can't quite pinpoint why. I think the "new partner" chemistry just isn't there yet. But I love Jake, especially in the role of Ichabod's attentive fanboy sidekick. I like how he's been a believer and is 100% on board with the supernatural stuff from the get go. I'm sure he's not the first one, but a new person who doesn't repeatedly need convincing even after seeing crazy stuff with his own eyes all the time, is refreshing. I'm really glad Jenny is still around. I liked her interactions with Jake. I appreciate that she and Ichabod still talk about Abbie and Joe, and the show hasn't tried to ignore the people and events that happened before. I think that is the biggest factor that has made this reset of the show tolerable and less disappointing for me. I initially kind of liked the idea that the little girl would be the new witness (apparently I was the only one who didn't see that coming, lol), but then I remembered that I have very low tolerance for precocious children in "grown up" roles on tv shows and in movies. And basically everything Zahdii said upthread about Magical Children. So now I'm just annoyed. I absolutely LOATHE the new villain too. He is ridiculously bad. I mean, the WORST. SO over the top, annoying, and annoyingly cheesy, he's just horrible. His minion is interesting though, I wonder what his deal is.

I kept waiting for the albino gorilla to move. I thought it was going to be revealed that Ben was hiding inside it, especially after they kept showing the perfectly man-shaped shadow it was apparently casting on the wall. My expectations for this show are very low.

I think Morgan knows the Wolf can't be 'saved' after what he said about killing the children. I think threats to children may be the thing that's most able to keep Morgan from going full zen. That's why he locked the cell instead of leaving it unlocked. Morgan doesn't have the trust in the wolf that The Cheeseman had for him when he left Morgan's cell unlocked. Morgan doesn't want to kill, but he's also already realizing that there's no coming back for some people and they still need to be dealt with. How does he resolve that? Also, what is stopping the Wolf from gnawing through his restraints, breaking the window and just leaving? I could be wrong, but I think Wolfy's hands were tied in front of him, he wasn't gagged, and there were obviously no bars on the windows. I didn't mind the episode, but the show is SO depressing all. the. time. I know it has to be bleak because of the subject matter but there is no balance. I can't even enjoy the bright spots because I know they'll be blotted out instantly. I'm the worst at picking up on editing cues and clues but even I'm getting to where it's become a distraction to enjoying the show, because I know any new or potentially interesting character is going to likely be promptly killed off, (in addition to established characters I already like also being killed off). All of the nice moments with The Cheeseman couldn't even resonate with me because I just kept waiting for him to die. I don't worship Morgan but I like the character and enjoyed the mystery of his fate throughout the past seasons. It's been weird having him around full time and this episode and discussion here has helped me to inform the annoying choices he's making now. It was very affecting to see him so far gone throughout pretty much the whole episode. Particularly in the moment when he stepped out of the cell and immediately lunged at Eastman like a madman (right before the quick cut to commercial), in that instant he somehow managed to look so small, broken, and pathetic that it was actually a little upsetting and I felt actual sadness for him. Also sad was seeing him kill those two people the way he did. It was awful, but I think it makes his pacifism now more understandable. On this show killing living people 'taints' you in a way, even if it is necessary. So it's hard to look at Morgan the same way seeing the side of him we saw in this episode. For me, his trip to Crazy Town was far more depressing to watch than Rick's and I'm not sure why. This whole situation is tricky. On the one hand, the no kill policy is so selfish if he wants to be around other people. You can't have your cake and eat it, too. But on the other hand, I agree with what someone else touched on about how Morgan is afraid that killing will send him back to that dark place and he doesn't want to go back. That makes sense to me. Maybe he isn't sure yet of how much he's actually healed. Maybe he's worried that if he kills someone and loses it, he might go back into 'Clear' mode which would only make him part of the problem. He wouldn't be able to distinguish between friend and foe and might hurt someone by accident. I just want to like him again. It's hard right now. On a bright note, I liked the moment where he tossed Tabitha the peanut butter(?) treat and kept checking over his shoulder to see if Eastman noticed.

The walkers also form herds which is a behavior the show has kept. So something must be making them gravitate towards one another. They showed the enormous herd by the vet college last season and then also the one Abraham wanted to drive the firetruck through. I would think it must be something other than following the same noise/light that would keep so many of them milling about in the same spot together. We've never really seen the group have to fight off hundreds or thousands of walkers, or if it's even possible. I wonder if the wolves are creating/collecting walkers in those trucks to unleash on a community like ASZ one day. I hope it's more about internal conflicts between people in ASZ and CDB while they work on building themselves up, working together, and just dealing with each other. I could use a break from the threat being crazy people and have the story revolve more around building competence in ASZ. I also liked the flu storyline for this reason. I like TTD and liked all three guests they had on this week, but I wish they would go back to only two guests at a time. Especially when it's cast members. With all the other stuff they try to cram in, there isn't enough time to hear a satisfying amount from each of them.

I feel like I remember seeing Aaron's breath when they were looking through the fence, so it must have been pretty chilly. Loved their scenes this episode and I like the dynamic between the two of them. I really like the Aaron character so far. I love your post. The way Rick just turned with zero hesitation and shot Pete really struck me. I believe that Rick has instinctively been wanting to kill Pete since he met him, but he didn't because he isn't completely crazy or stupid. But in that scene Rick looked to me like a hired gun. He was just so mechanical and matter of fact when he did it. He he didn't give one of his patented Rick Grimes meaningful 'I see you've come around', or 'finally, you get it' looks at Deanna before shooting. It was almost as though he was the gun and Deanna pulled the trigger. I thought Gabriel had the look and carriage of someone who was righteously PISSED and did not give a flip throughout his interaction with Spencer all the way through to his scene with Sasha. I wasn't sure why. I understand he was upset with himself for being too weak to put himself through what he put his congregation through. But it would've seemed more consistent for the character to continue crying about it. I wonder if we're now starting to see some of what kept him alive all alone (allegedly) in that church for 18 months. But, I thought it odd that he would not give a shit about closing the gate. If it was just him inside, sure. But he had to have realized that not making sure he closed the gate properly to ensure the safety of all the ASZhats and ASZ made him no better than what he was accusing CDB of, and it would basically be a repeat of what he did at the church. That being said, I still hate him, but I liked that Maggie ended up helping him in the end. I thought this was a great episode for Maggie. I'm so glad Sasha finally asked for help, as well, and that Maggie was there for her. I really hope Sasha will be all right and we'll see her more like her old self next season. I loved Rosita and Tara's short but sweet scene. I really enjoyed all of the women and their scenes in this episode, actually. I adored Michonne's scene with Rick when she was telling him she was on him side no matter what. They don't have to agree for her to back him up and he really should know that by now. I loved that she didn't take the gun back from him and still trusted him enough to keep it, even though she must have known he could do something stupid again. I think she knew he needed that gesture. "Something's going to happen, just don't make it happen". I loved her for saying that. I agree. I understand that the way they frame and film the shots can sometimes leave things vague, but for me, this wasn't one of those times. Unfortunately, every interaction Rick has had with Pete since the Porchdick scene has been leading up to this, in my opinion. I think Rick killing Pete has been telegraphed since that first encounter. I'm kind of disappointed Deanna didn't grab Rick's gun and do it herself. I wanted anyone other than Rick to do it. I like Rick a lot, but I didn't want him to be so very right this time. We all know he was right, but it was too convenient that Rick told Deanna you can choose who to kill or have the choice made for you and then the very person she didn't want to kill ends up killing her Reg. I'm looking forward to moving on from this. People have mentioned the fireside chat scene reminding them of the one at the end of season 2. Back then Carol tells Daryl that he's Rick's henchman. The roles got flipped a bit these past few episodes where it looked like Carol was using Rick as her henchman, letting him do the dirty work in getting Pete away from Jessie and the kids, fighting with Pete, letting Rick take the fall for stealing the guns. Rick was also acting as Deanna's henchman to an extent by waiting for (first Carol's and then) Deanna's say so before taking Pete out. Rick said he wondered how many of them he'd have to kill to save them, apparently the answer was two. Albeit, Reg was indirectly. It looked like Carol knew that, as well. She made Rick wait until Pete hurt/killed someone so that eliminating Pete would be justified. Sucks to be you, Reg. That was cold on Carol's part. She couldn't possibly have known who would get hurt. When Deanna told Spencer to "go" after he explained that he asked Gabriel to close the gate, I thought she meant for him to 'go find Gabriel'. It makes more sense that he went back to the gate to be able to let Aaron and the others back in. I like the idea that Carol manipulated Pete as a weapon. I had thought she was just trying to ensure that Pete stayed away from his family. I kind of think Pete seeing Rick leaving his (Pete's original) house was the biggest trigger. Pete isn't allowed to go back to his own house but Rick is. He isn't allowed near his family but Rick is. And his 'this isn't my house'. Others have pointed out his frustration and loss of control, and now that he's away from his family he has no outlet. I will not lie, I adore Eugene despite all of his uselessness. That may be because I find the actor kind of adorable in interviews, but nevertheless. I loved the makeup scene. The cut from Eugene's sleeping face to Rosita oopsing the bowl off the counter, back to Eugene's dead pan stare at Abraham truly made me laugh out loud. Abraham is really growing on me, too. I think a lot of signs are pointing to a time jump, but I can't help but want to pick up right where we left off so we can see the immediate reunion of Rick and Morgan.

I think it's important and beneficial to show events from Jessie's perspective or at least let us get to know her through her own eyes, as a character/person, particularly in a story that is very much about her. Especially if we're expected to not question or wonder about anything this character does- her motives, her feelings, thoughts she might be having, because she is being abused. I'm not talking about rambling monologues or fifteen minutes of Jessie looking wistfully at her reflection, or what have you. A couple of extra seconds, a line or two here or there, possibly at the expense of a few seconds of (not instead of) watching Sasha go rogue clearing walkers for the fourth time, for example. Some of the suggestions I listed in my previous post were for this episode in regards to scenes they already had in the show. For instance when they cut from Carol and Rick on the porch to their view of Jessie's porch, they could have possibly shown Jessie's view from her porch. The pantry one was a few episodes ago and again was already included in the final episode. I don't think it would have been difficult to have included Jessie working in there, too. I never said they needed to put ALL of those things in this episode, nor did I say that they couldn't have had something else in another of the previous three episode. And who knows, they might start including things like that going forward. This is what I find repellant. The idea that people who learn about an abused wife and mother wonder when she decided she no longer wanted to try and help her husband (The original post is not too much ahead of mine so I didn't quote the whole thing.) This is why I hate this storyline more than anything they've ever done, even though I'd like to make the best of it by trying to understand Jessie's motives and her feelings. There's no hostility here, but I'd like to clarify my point of view while realizing others may still not agree. From my perspective, I wasn't wondering about an abused wife and mother, I was wondering about a pretend person on television, albeit one who is being portrayed as abused. My comment was about trying to understand a little bit more about a fictional character on a tv show about the zombie apocalypse, where we're only seeing snippets of her life through the eyes of every one except her. Even though domestic violence (and for that matter; torture, murder, rape, starvation, mental illness, alcoholism, etc) is obviously a very real thing that happens to people in real life, to my knowledge this is not a real story about a real person even though it may be very similar to what some real women have gone through. I do realize there can be a fine line. I have to take exception to the implication that my comment had anything to do with real women in real situations of domestic violence. I'm commenting only on what the show is showing us. The Jessie character said herself that she had tried to or was helping Pete, and he had gotten or had been getting better. I simply wondered about her choice, when she decided to stop helping. That's honestly it. I wasn't judging the character's life or choices, or real women's motivations or choices in similar situations. And you're right, she didn't, doesn't, and will never have an obligation to 'help' Pete. I may have missed it, but I don't think Jessie said she did, and I certainly didn't. In the garage scene she seemed adamant about keeping Rick out of the situation and taking care of herself. The storytellers then chose to show a few moments go by before she's accepting Rick into her life to protect her and asking Pete to leave. Her choice to stop helping Pete, whatever that means, has nothing to do with whatever Pete decides to do, does, tries to do, or is afraid of losing. Those are his choices. His decisions may affect hers, but only she can really choose for herself. At some point, be it between the garage and Rick entering her home, or five years ago, or ten years ago, Jessie made a choice to stop her version of 'helping' and to want her husband to leave. Also, at some point, she decided to not push Rick away. These are relatively big choices for the character to make in relation to the story, but because we don't get one second of the story from her point of view it falls kind of flat. For me, in my opinion. I completely understand and respect that the issue of abuse in particular hits very close to home for a lot of people and that it will affect how they watch the show and view the characters involved. But I'm not sure what to do here, as it would be hard to talk about Jessie without talking about her storyline, the fact that she is abused, what she looks like, her motivations, her relationships to Rick and Pete, etc. I understand people want realistic characters and stories, but I think we also want to watch an 'entertaining' and hopefully interesting show and wonder and talk about it. The aspect of abuse in her storyline and how Jessie is behaving and being portrayed in particular is so difficult to comment on without one's opinions about character motivation and plot being interpreted as attacks on real people's pain and suffering and what real people go through. I'm sure not everyone is, but I would like to think that most of us are sensitive and decent enough to not intentionally belittle or judge what real people have to endure, or to disguise criticisms of actual abused women as comments about fictional characters. If you made a comment about the door I didn't intend my comment as a response to it. I just thought the slow motion door slam was funny because most scenes like that in other movies or tv shows have the door slammed quickly, whereas here we just see Rick standing there waiting for the door 'slam' to finish. I don't know, I didn't read any deep meaning into it, it just amused me in the moment. I honestly would never have thought that the speed of a door closing would somehow add meaning to the scene. This is basically it, I don't know how to be brief because I worry about clarity and being misunderstood a bit too much. I would rather have too much character development for new people who are going to be a part of the main characters' stories than too little or none. Whether Jessie is here for two episodes or five seasons, I just want her to be more developed. I realize that it may not be possible within the limits and parameters the showrunners have to work with, and that these things may take time. But they chose to dive right in with not a lot of build up whatsoever so I'm disappointed. Will I set the show on fire over it? No. :)

I think this assessment of Pete makes sense considering how often he is shown noticeably drunk, however the show keeps telling us and implying that Pete is doing his job, and doing it well. Deanna said Pete "has saved lives", more than one person, hence her reluctance to even try to do something that might potentially upset him. Aaron told Noah that Pete was a talented surgeon, he's seen him do amazing things (again, plural), and that he thought Pete might be able to help Noah. Jessie told Rick that Tara was in good hands with Pete taking care of her, and raven1707 posted upthread that Rosita reported that Tara was "Stable. Holding her own." which I take to mean that Pete tended to Tara and was able to help her. Even Pete himself, when Carol went to check up on Sam and Jessie before Pete slammed the door in her face - he asked Carol if she was feeling okay when she showed up. I thought that was interesting, because I imagine if Carol hadn't been there to investigate and she truly wasn't feeling well, that Pete would've helped her. (I would add Pete offering to give Carl and Judith checkups twice to the list, but that was just creepy, and offering one to Rick I think was creepy and posturing, but still.) Deanna, if not all of the ASZhats value him a great deal so, again, according to the show, he has to be doing his job with a certain degree of competence. Pete has 'appeared' sober a couple of times, ironically at Deanna's booze party when he first offers to look at Rick's kids I don't remember him seeming drunk (yet). And also when he was walking with Jessie before Rick's infamous gun-grab. He and Jessie both wave at Rick and he looked pleasant and non-soused. Maybe he is able to still function as a doctor while drunk? He's able to remain mobile and coherent to stalk Rick even when he's clearly been drinking. So maybe he's a violent, abusive, creepy, drunk who can still manage to appear not-drunk and perform complicated and/or life saving medical procedures while actually being half/completely in the bag at all times. All of this is another reason why I dislike this storyline. He could have just as easily been a violent, inappropriate, creepy, sober a-hole and then it wouldn't have been so hard to believe he could be a terrible husband and a good doctor. Why did he HAVE to be a drunk and an abuser? I also agree about Reg. I commented on that after the episode that I hated how he passive aggressively forced the drink on Rick. Not everyone likes alcohol, and even in a ZA, that wouldn't change. Sometimes when someone says "No thanks, I'm good" they aren't being coy, they actually mean it. Obviously this didn't apply to, Rick, but still. Reg came off as an ass in that moment.

My first thought after watching the episode was that Jessie was trying to put Rick off by reminding him she was married and that he would only make things worse. I still think that. But I was wondering, if she wasn't also reminding herself of these things. Because I think she is attracted to him and she's worried about it. "What are you doing?" she asks Rick, "I'm married!", "You'll only make things worse" (by getting involved). These are all all things she's been telling herself if she's feeling conflicted about being attracted to someone else as a married woman. I don't know if it's because of the abuse, or strong religious or personal beliefs, but she seems like she might be a 'stand by your man' type, just because we know she put up with Pete's crap prior to the apocalypse. Until now she seems to have been committed to her marriage, but since meeting Rick maybe she's been considering her options and seeing a way out and she's unsettled by that. This would make a little bit more sense why she would then ask that stupid "would you do this for anyone else" question. She wanted to confirm her feelings were mutual (though I personally think both their parts in the lead up and reactions to the kiss took care of that). Even though I still find that question and the fact that she asked it repellent. I wonder how long it's been since she decided she no longer wanted to try to help Pete and instead has been wanting to ask Pete to leave. Because we saw a pretty quick transition from essentially 'get out, I'm married. I can take care of myself' to needing/wanting Rick to protect her and 'Pete you need to leave'. Now that Jessie's seen Rick's Crazy on display, I wonder if she'll pull back from him or still embrace him as her savior. I need to know more what she sees or thinks about him and I hope/look forward to when the show fills in the gaps a bit more. This past episode would have been a good opportunity to do that, perhaps if they had shown parts of it from her perspective. For example, if, after she shut Rick out with the slowest slamming of a door in someone's face as possible, they could have shown Jessie's reactions to the conversation cut in with what they did end up showing of Rick's pre-B&E into her house. Or even show a few seconds of her alone in the garage before Rick showed up. Maybe hinted at whatever it was that prompted her secret smoking session. Some interactions with her kids when no one else was around. Maybe show her watching Rick and Carol from her step with a look of 'whatever she was feeling at the moment' on her face. I don't know. I just feel like the show is missing opportunities to fill in some blanks. Because they went with the abuse storyline and have implied, through Deanna's lack of action, that people in ASZ are turning a blind eye to it in favor of having a drunk doctor on call, that's all the more reason why I wish we had seen Jessie interacting with anyone else in ASZ. If the others were being polite but distant or standoffish around her, it would have made us wonder why. It would also have made an impact to see others embracing her and being normally social and friendly, all while knowing she's being hurt and not lifting a finger. Do they all know? Some of them? Does Jessie know they know? Jessie works in the pantry, presumably with Olivia, does Olivia know? Are Olivia and Jessie friends? Does Jessie confide in her? Does Jessie have anyone to talk to or a close friend? I would have loved to have seen even one scene with Olivia, Jessie, and Carol all in the pantry together. It has been weird that they haven't had Carol interacting directly with Jessie at all. Especially with the obvious parallels between the two.

I have to agree with everything you said in the first paragraph. I can't quit this show, I wouldn't even try to, but I'm frustrated with this horrible storyline and as a result I've never disliked Rick as much as I do right now. In regards to the warehouse disaster, I really was expecting more from him in his reaction to what happened to Noah and Tara. When Glen told him how he had to watch Noah get torn apart and the whole awful ordeal, the only part Rick really commented on ,IIRC, was that "these people don't know what they're doing" which, true, but shouldn't he have been pissed? Horrified? Sad? Rick's been pretty consistent in his grief when a member of the group dies, but this was a bit cold. Nicholas and his cowardice killed Noah, but Rick seemed more focused on trying to use what happened as a means to convince Glen that 'see? this is why we need to take this place'. And then Later when Jessie was offering her condolences for Noah and told him that Tara was in good hands with Pete, he cut her off and went right into 'he's hitting you'. I'm sure Tara is happy for your concern Rick. Ass. I really enjoyed Glen's scenes in this episode. I worry about Glen A LOT. I have always loved Glen from the very beginning, so I worry about what Nick having Rick's gun means. I am curious how he managed to get the gun in the first place, though? Wasn't he waiting for CDB at the gate when they arrived? How did he see/know about Rick hiding his gun in the blender? The debrief video of Nick was curious. At the end of the video, we hear Spencer ask what she's doing (or something like that) and I think she says "I need this for later". We did not see her interview Glen, which doesn't mean it didn't happen. But I think she is planning on having Nick's video as 'evidence' against our group if she needs it, if things get out of hand and she wants to convince people to evict them. Maybe? But then Rick made it super easy for her at the end so she wouldn't even really need it anymore. I don't think Glen is siding with the ASZhats. I think he's just really desperate for this to work. I think Glen is one of the more clear-headed in our group. He knows how precious this opportunity is, but he also sees how delicate it is as well. He truly believes they can't be out there anymore. He needs this place for Maggie, for all of them. That's why I think when he says 'we need to make this work", "we are them", he's not drinking the Kool-Aid, he's saying we need to keep our shit together and find away to work with these people for all of our sakes. If they're weak, we make them strong. As evidenced by his conversation with Nick, Glen doesn't want anyone to die, even the worst of the bunch who leave their own behind. He's had enough death. Glen is a peacemaker at heart. He wants to try to bring the ASZhats up to speed and together with CDB in a non-hostile way. I'm reading Michonne differently, as well. In this episode, once outside the walls again for the first time, she tells Rosita that "it was like I was asleep in there". I think she's looked uneasy, listless, and unsettled since she got there and she's figuring out why in this episode, when she joined in taking down the walkers. I think Michonne wants ASZ to work for them, but she also feels like she's sleepwalking. Going through the motions. It didn't seem like her constable job was what she wanted after all. I think the flashbacks were to show that she too still needs 'the fight' to have purpose or to keep going. I thought, at first, that showing her leaving her uniform on the bed when they went to find Sasha was supposed to be symbolic of her leaving it behind, but then they showed her in it at the very end, so i'm not sure what it means. YES times infinity. I am one of the ones who likes a lot of talking. I don't think the writers understand that you can still have drama without purposely making characters avoid having conversations that by any stretch of reality we all know they should be having. There is no way Maggie would not have raised the alarm about Gabriel to everyone in CDB within five minutes of overhearing that conversation. Rick not mentioning to at least Daryl and Carol (that we've seen) about the 'W' walkers at Noah's house is absurd. Letting Sasha wander off trying to get herself killed is at the very least being a shitty friend. Allowing Rick to keep wandering Crazytown unchaperoned, too. These situations deserve tough love. Glen and Michonne are both good at talking down Rick. Maggie is going through recent losses that mirror Sasha's. Maggie could talk to her without Sasha thinking she's being patronized. They're so disconnected as a group/family right now, that I can understand why some viewers would feel like they would all abandon each other in an instant if it came down to it. Carol said something like "I wanted them to see that'. I think Carol wants CDB to look neighborly, like they give a crap about the people in town. So I think it's mostly facade, but maybe a little bit of both. Carol knows what it is like to lose her child and I'm sure she sympathizes, but she also sees the importance of keeping up the 'your pain is our pain' 'one of us' appearances, as well. Deanna knows it came from CDB because it's not the ASZhats way. Imagine how awkward it would be if one of the ASZhats abandons a guy on a run and then bakes a casserole for his surviving relatives. I think Nick realizes he is a crap human being and a coward, but unlike Eugene, is not willing to admit it. And again, unlike Eugene, perhaps has nothing else valuable to offer the community. I think he's delusional and is telling himself that he's an important part of the community because he brings back supplies even if three or four people are lost along the way. I couldn't for the life of me fathom why she would ask that question. I can't say it any better than you did. I've read the interpretations that others have suggested but I agree with you. I'll be honest, I enjoy crap romance novels and movies but this particular crap just doesn't fit in this show. This scene felt romance-novelly to me and I hated it in the context of TWD. I don't think Rick or Jessie came out of that looking good. If by having Jessie ask Rick that question they meant for her to mean "are you going to help me after, will you stick around to make sure he doesn't hurt us?" Then HAVE HER SAY THAT. Because of the context we've been given, I think she wanted him to tell her she was special to him, even while she's reminding him that she's married. For the record, I don't think Jessie (or the actress) is ugly or plain or slutty or too 'anything', I just don't think she's an innocent in Rick busting in on his white horse to save the day. I think she invited him into her life. 'Today on "As the World Ends"...' I had a feeling last episode when Carol was telling Rick about what was going on with Pete that she seemed very manipulative to me, but I couldn't figure out why she would be doing that. The revenge theory is a good one, especially after I thought she was smirking at Rick humiliating himself and ruining everything at the end. But I really don't want to believe she would do that. Maybe it's just unclear acting choices. I hope maybe she's just happy Pete's getting a taste of his own medicine. If she was up to something, I would wish they'd make it more apparent that something sinister was afoot without revealing what exactly. I saw the quote where AL said he wanted the fight scene to be dirty and humiliating as possible. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED. I have never hated Rick in all five seasons of this show, and even though everything he said was sound, I thanked Michonne out loud in my room, by myself, when she shut him the hell up. I felt this way as well. Rick's behavior is ridiculous. I appreciate that he at least went to Deanna first, and to Jessie. But I don't think he should have brought up killing Pete to Deanna at all. Stealth and subtlety is not his strong suit. I liked that he had the presence of mind to correct himself from "I'll kill him" to "We'll kill him" like it would somehow sound less insane to a woman who has survived on cocktail parties and good intentions for the past two years. It seems like he's trying to work with these people but throws a tantrum when they don't want to do things his way. In his defense, though, it hasn't really seemed apparent that Deanna or the ASZhats want to change how they're doing things, so why bring CDB in for their road knowledge and experience in the first place if you aren't going to use it? I don't like Rick all of a sudden being the type of guy that would jeopardize having this relative Utopia for his kids so recklessly. Couldn't he have asked Jessie if she had friends she could move in with, people who would look out for her if she left Pete? She obviously has him and Carol, but she must have friends. Investigate! Maybe Pete's only unmanageable when he's drunk. Rick could have suggested to Deanna not having alcohol readily available in town, stop bringing it in and make it a law for safety's sake and to force Pete to be sober. I understand why, in his Crazy Mind Palace, that he jumped to the worst that she could die tomorrow at Pete's hands. Rick always thought he would have more time to resolve things with Lori and he continues to be haunted by that. However, realistically, Jessie has made it this long pre-ZA to now and she's still in one piece. It would've been worth the effort to handle things more delicately so as not to potentially harm your family's own security in the process, not to mention hers. You're exactly right that he put Jessie's needs over his own, Carl's, Judith's, everyone's. Which is so not Rick, it is awful to watch. This is the worst. All this Jessie storyline has told me is that Rick has not come to terms in a healthy way with Lori's death at all, and he is nowhere near equipped to handle a relationship with or even caring about a woman romantically. Right now he seems like the type who would punch a guy for looking at her funny. Not really boyfriend material. But awesome without the romance crap tainting it. When Rick did his "Keep walking (or I'll kill you)" murder face at Pete, I couldn't help but love it. But I was annoyed by the context. I've been wondering - why did Sam ask Carol for the gun? He can sneak in and steal chocolate, which is stored right next to the guns, but he can't steal a gun for himself? He could've stolen the gun to protect his mom in 'self-defense' and gotten rid of his dad himself. Then we could've avoided that stupid scene with Pete conveniently walking in during Rick's rescue mission and all it led to. And what the hell, Ron? We saw him briefly when Carol and Rick were being the creepiest neighbors on the planet spying on them. Ron obviously has to know what's going on and being older would be in a better position, potentially, to help his mom, but he's barely there. I wonder how Carl would advise Ron or Sam in handling the situation if Carl know what was going on. I found it an interesting coincidence that the girl D'nA found tied to the tree suffered the exact fate that Carol promised to unleash on Sam if he blabbed about her gun heist. Daryl said it happened recently. I wonder if it is going to be significant who that girl was. I admit I liked the Carl and Enid scenes for the most part. When she started going Lori Macbeth and whispering in Carl's hair I thought that was oddly 'mature' of her. She seemed like she was 'seducing' him in a teenagery sort of way. But I really like the idea of a young girl who can survive in this world and be a counterpart for Carl, even as buddies. And, I liked the part where Carl touches her hand. I thought that tiny moment on Carl's part, was sweeter and more authentic than any of the Rick/Jessie stuff they've been showing us. Every kid Carl has know since he was 10 is basically dead. I liked to see him reach out to her, so I hope she's not evil, even though it does seem she is up to something. I thought the slo-mo run through the woods was to show us that this is what the world is like for kids now. Running and playing in the woods like kids have always done, even now with flesh eating corpses at every turn. Because they are young and they grew up in this world, they fit into it more than the adults do. Contrary to what Enid said, I think it kind of is their world, more so than it is for the adults anyway.

T-Dog got eaten buffet-style at the prison :(.