SSAHotchner

The way I look at is, I was a Criminal Minds fan, but I'm not any longer. And it's not just about Hotch. The writing has steadily declined since season 5. I looked forward to season 7 with high hopes after the whole fiasco with Seaver was over and the rightful team was coming back. And I think there were a handful of good episodes in season 7, but the writing continued to decline. The finale of that season was among the worst of the CM season finales IMO. Anyway, I've been hanging on ever since because I love Hotch and because I have many online friends I've made discussing the show over the years. It's been a habit not so much a love. And I can count on one hand, sometimes on 1 finger, the number of episodes per season starting with season 8 that I thought were any good or would even consider watching again. Now, don't get me wrong, I do like, even love some of the other characters, but the firing of Thomas Gibson was just the last straw for me. But I also recognize that many other people don't feel the same way and will continue to watch. I'm not here, or on any other forum, to berate them for that, and I expect the same courtesy from them when I say I'm no longer going to watch. I will continue to check in to see what others have to say about the program this season. This has mostly been a great place to chat with folks and exchange opinions. I hope it continues to be that way and that posters won't chastise others who don't have the exact same point of view as their own.

I started reading the Kolar book today. There was mention of Patsy being too distraught to be questioned by the police and I thought to myself, "If anyone took or harmed my child, I would want to not only tell the police every single thing I knew, but I would want to hear about everything they were doing to find the perpetrator as well." When someone close to you dies, you kind of go on auto pilot at least until after the funeral. You're in shock, and you're doing the things that have to be done and then collapse and grieve later. My cousin lost his oldest daughter when her school bus was hit by a commuter train. There were 7 kids killed in that accident and many more injured. The parents, and most of the town, went to every single funeral and wake. It was only after they buried their daughter and most of the guests left that my cousin and his wife broke down. I'm not saying this is always the case, but in the Ramsey's situation, I feel that Patsy was using the "collapsed by grief" excuse to get out of being interviewed by the police or FBI.

I LOVE Columbo!! Yeah. I've been reading mysteries since I was a kid and true crime most of my adult life. You just start to pick up on things. Let's hope we never have to use these acquired skills in our real lives.

I downloaded the book, too, but only just started it today. Not that I'm a slow reader. I just spend way too much time online and watching TV. :) I'm looking forward to reading what Kolar has to say, but the photos are quite disturbing.

Wow, so can you imagine how thin the cheerleaders and TCCs actually are? I'm laughing out loud at your Kate Smith comment. I wondered if any of the current cheerleaders even know who she is. But since I'm old.... :)

I'm with you. Just watched "Pleasure is My Business" on ION TV today, which is one of my very favorite Hotch episodes. The empathy and tenderness he shows towards the unsub, Megan Kane, gets to me every time. And when she says to him, "How could your wife ever have left someone like you?" I yell "YEAH!!!!" at the TV. I just love him to pieces.

I saw the A&E special. They weren't able to convince me that an intruder did it. For one thing, I just can't get past that ransom note. But while I had never suspected the brother before watching this special, the evidence they presented is very credible to me. Plus we'd never seen much of Burke before and he just gives off a creep vibe. Something is off about him no matter what happened in 1996. The programs that try to push the intruder theory really try to discredit the police and push the "police rushed to judgement" theory. I think most people will agree that the police made some significant errors in the way they handled the Ramseys and the crime scene that first day. But even untrained folks like most of us here can tell that the whole story is fishy, the Ramseys' behavior was fishy and the ransom note was not real. The cops had every reason to suspect the Ramsey's at the most of homicide and at the very least at hindering an investigation. Re-watched part 2 today as it is still on my DVR, and noticed something else that creeped me out, although I'm sure this is Patsy's fault and not Burke's. In the family photos they feature in this special, Burke appears to be wearing lipstick. Even in the black and white photos you can see the dark color of his lips and the shine of gloss or lipstick. If it were just one photo, you might think maybe his lips were chapped, but not in every one from various years. Jon Benet is also wearing lipstick. They both appear to have the same color lips as Patsy. I just think that's creepy. Doesn't have anything to do with the murder, but since I only noticed it for the first time today, I just wanted to mention it.

I agree with this, but I still think it's totally possible that he hit her in the head with the flashlight and even maybe choked her in some other way. I think the garrote was staged to make it look like a sex crime. An adult intruder would not have to hit a 6 year old child in the head. He would have been able to subdue her just by the difference in size and strength. An adult could have snapped her neck. The head injury to me says anger just as the smeared feces, especially on her brand new box of candy.

I think the garrote is too sophisticated for a 9 year old. I could see him strangling her with his hands or something else, but to create the garrote? No, even though I agree he could tie that sort of knot. I think that was cover up. Also, on Criminal Minds they say all the time that covering the body is a sign of remorse. I don't think he had any. I think that was part of the parents' involvement in staging the scene.

Patty McCormack also had a role on an episode ("Plain Sight") of Criminal Minds in season 1. Just a little connection with Jim Clemente.

You don't need to be embarrassed. I've always enjoyed mysteries, puzzles and reading true crime stories. This case does stick with you because the victim was so young and the bizarre elements like the rambling ransom note. My husband and I have watched so read so many mysteries and watched so many TV crime shows that now when we watch one we call out the stuff that stands out and are able to figure out who the murderer is a lot of the time. No one wants to believe that a family member could have done this to a sweet, innocent 6 year old, but unfortunately it's not uncommon for a family member to be responsible for a child's death. Every time you read, "I woke up and he/she wasn't there" you find yourself waiting for the child to be found and the news story announcing that a parent or significant other of one of the parents were arrested to follow. Of course you hope that the child will be found alive, but it's almost never the case.

From the start that always said to me that the parents knew she was dead on the 25th. Any time after midnight, they would have put Dec. 26th on the stone.

Just re-watched this episode and it occurred to me that Kelli wore that horrible trapeze dress because of the whole boot thing. They probably knew about, maybe even planned for, the whole "I'm giving you a pair of my boots" thing, so she had to have a dress on, and a short one at that, to show off the boots. I thought it was way too short for her. Judy was also wearing a dress. But for someone who dictates what looks good on the cheerleaders, Kelli is sadly in need of a stylist herself. Does she not recognize how awful she looks when she watches this program? She has a gorgeous face and pretty hair, but she needs some help in choosing her wardrobe. I hate that they're being so mean to Kelsey, yet seeming to bend over backwards for some of the other girls. I think Yuko is cute and I understand that this is hard for her and she is homesick, but it's a choice she made. I can't really feel sorry for her when she doesn't really need to be here, and I haven't seen anything in her performance yet that wows me or stands out.

I thought the police were overly harsh with him. But when I read your "Get on the ground!" line above it made me think of Elle in Aftermath.

That's funny. My twins were the start of my obesity. Not blaming them, but what carrying them did to my body caused lasting damage.

What I like most about it is that Garcia isn't in any of the pictures. I can barely stomach her anymore. How can AJ have two babies and still be that thin? I didn't get that gene. In fact, I don't think my waist was as narrow as hers when I was in elementary school . She's such a pretty lady.

Thanks! I'm sure that one of the adults put that idea into his mind years ago...or maybe a lawyer. To the average person that only reads about crimes like this on news sites, they might buy it. And, come on, who doesn't think of a pedophile as the most despicable criminal ever? I've heard on numerous TV shows and films that even in prison the other inmates despise the pedophiles. I'm not disagreeing with you here. Just saying that I don't think Burke really believes that (especially since I now think he's the killer) but rather that was a story that the family decided people would accept and would divert suspicion from the family.

Oh, I agree, and I do think they're doing the right thing putting her in charge. It's just that none of these things makes it easier for me to deal with the loss of Hotch.

Yeah. None of us knew anything about these people back then except that they had money and the mom put the daughter in pageants. If even the tiniest inkling of the brother's behavior had gotten out, people might have suspected him. They kept him hidden away and out of discussions. You knew the goofy ransom note was written by an adult so you really suspected the parents. Didn't the police test the feces in her room to see if it was hers or someone else's? You see a brand new box of candy covered in poo and you don't think there's something fishy going on in the family? Oh, well, nobody can do anything about what was or wasn't done at the time. I am concerned that this kid seems not to have gotten psychological help over the years or at least none that did much good. It makes me more sad than mad. Not like when OJ Simpson got off. Whoops, don't get me started.

I haven't seen all the evidence, either, but I wondered if it was possible that besides just whacking her in the head if he had grabbed her around the throat and left marks so that Patsy maybe thought to fake the garrotte would make it seem like an adult intruder and not a child or other family member had strangled her. I still think based on this recent program that the head injury was fatal, not the strangulation. But again, I don't know for sure. And what I read about Burke's interview with Dr. Phil where he kept saying, "it must have been some pedophile that saw her in the pageants." I mean he said it over and over like he wouldn't even allow himself to think or say that any other person could have been responsible. His manner of speaking and bobbing and grinning really was uncomfortable to watch. It was like treating the whole awful incident as a joke. If anything, at this point I'd expect him to show a little anger or annoyance that he's had to live his life under scrutiny because of all the interest in the case and that even now that Jon Benet's been dead for 20 years, probably the first or only thing anyone wants to talk to him about is the case . His sister may be long gone, but he is tied to her for the rest of his life in the public's eye. Yet I don't feel sorry for him because of what came out in this program. The rage, striking her at other times, leaving and smearing feces in her room and on her possessions. That's more than typical sibling rivalry. That's a disturbed kid that needs help.

Yes. That speech for me parallels the one at the end of To Hell and Back when he talks about the toll witnessing these horrific crimes takes on his team. And then there's the powerful ending where you don't know if he's been shot by the Reaper.

Or when she tells him that his father would have liked to have a houseful of kids but she stopped at one because "why mess with perfection?" I see bringing Jane Lynch and Paget back as damage control. Both are great , but I doubt we'd have gotten either if it hadn't been for the pickle they put themselves into when Thomas was fired. I don't have any confidence in the current writers so I have no idea what you're likely to get. I could imagine them announcing that Diana was miraculously cured of all her conditions. But, seriously, I'm happy for all of you who will still be watching. I will keep tabs on what actually happens through your comments. Any other season I would have been jumping up and down at the thought of having either of these magnificent ladies back on CM. My heart is still heavy over the loss of Hotch. It's strange to think that we have known about it for so long and the season hasn't even begun yet. And I am a little ticked off that it took a major incident like firing TG to get them to do this. Wonder if the scripts will actually be any good this season? Maybe they'll quit focusing on the unsubs and give the team something to do.

I live in the south, but I'm from Chicago. For years I've been annoyed by all the fake southern accents you get in movies and television. I will say after moving to the south I discovered that people do actually say "hey." When I was growing up, I always thought it was funny when they said "hey" to each other on the old Andy Griffith show. It's one of the things I allowed myself to pick up. I still can't bring myself to say y'all.

I enjoy Matthew as long as he doesn't rush through the lines. I know they've experimented with the speed delivery for Reid, but that throws away the lines and his wonderful thought process.

And how about feces being smeared all over the box of candy she had just gotten as a Christmas present? That was mentioned. Surely Jon Benet didn't do that. There was some really intense jealousy and anger going on there with Burke. I don't think any of the general public suspected him all those years ago when the story first broke but then we didn't have this other disturbing information back then. While the idea that the pineapple was the start of an altercation is plausible, what if she discovered that her brother smeared poo all over her brand new box of candy? I would have wanted to smack my sibling if she'd done that to any of my possessions. I know that kids are abducted from their homes by strangers and stalkers, but the ransom note rules out the whole intruder thing for me. In fact, if anyone outside the family had been responsible for her death, the best thing would be not to leave a note. A dead kid in a home with no evidence would most likely place suspicion on the folks inside the home. And I'll never in a million years believe that an intruder wrote that note, based on the contents of the note.