StatisticalOutlier

I can't figure out if Leah looks uglier with all that clown make-up or without it. She really is hard on the eyes in that photo. White, pasty, ghost-like, eek! I'd vote definitely without the make-up. She actually looks kind of human in the Walmart photo, as opposed to when she's wearing the blue eyeliner or whatever it is that makes her look so ghastly. Her ghost-like coloring? The subtle and flattering Walmart lighting certainly wasn't doing her any favors, but I prefer that over orange. I'm probably biased because I almost always prefer less make-up over more, even when skillfully done, which hers never is. Suffice to say I won't be buying much at her Mary Kay parties. It's ironic that she looks less like a "People of Walmart" in this photo than any photo I've ever seen. Her teeth? They look like a real person's teeth, instead of these blinding white things that everybody seems to have now. They're a little dingy, but I think I prefer that to looking fake. Maybe it's just because I'm used to it--back in my day, there was a thing called "tetracyline teeth," which turned teeth an unpleasant gray, plus of course there were the rest of us who had teeth that weren't on high beam all the time and still managed to be happy and have successful lives. But I will say it looks like the braces did a good job of putting them where they're supposed to be, which is good. Now, the hair? That's tragic. Her hairline is a problem, being way back up on top like that, and I don't envy her having to work around that. But even more problematic is the texture of that mess. I think somebody just hacked those extensions out (kind of like how they pull their IUDs out) and left it at that, damage and all. I know short hair is anathema to hot chicks everywhere, but she could have gone a lot shorter, like a pixie, and gotten rid of as much of it as she could, for a fresh start. Find out what color it really is--it might be attractive. It's got to be better than what it is now.

His glasses certainly corroborate your opinion.

Since you're a fan, can YOU explain his eyebrows? I liked him a lot better after watching him have a civilized conversation instead of a screaming match with whichever HW that was he was talking to. (I obviously don't pay particularly close attention.) (Which I consider a good thing.) I guess I'm not representative of Bravo's intended audience because I was telling Mr. Outlier this morning how funny those gigantic dogs were, especially sitting on the couch, and Teresa hiding in the closet from them (although as hilariously pointed out upthread, it could have been because their owner is a debt collector). And then I remembered Dina trying to get the bulldog to move by pushing on it a little and that thing was not budging. It didn't resist and didn't have a "no way" look on its face; it just wasn't budging. I thoroughly enjoyed that. That said, I watch the other shit so I guess Bravo knows what it's doing.

I was thinking about this just the other day, for some reason. Christie Brinkley always had a very full face, and it seems to be staying that way. Plumpness in the face always makes people look younger. Add well-kept skin to the mix, and you've got a winner. I suspect no women are taking up shaving their face because they looked at Caroline and said, "I want to look like THAT!" He does CrossFit, right? That's some hard core working out, and has probably made him really lean, including in his face, making him look gaunt. Ties into my Christie Brinkley theory.

That might be a better use of it than donating it to Locks of Love, according to this article: http://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2013/05/13/locks-of-love-6-million-of-hair-donations-unaccounted-for-each-year/ But yeah, she didn't cut off anywhere near the amount needed for a donation, so I call foul on that. Is there NOTHING genuine on this whole show?

I helped clean up at a soup kitchen today, and found myself wiping down this big stainless steel counter, big swipes left and right. It was strangely calming, until it reminded me that I watch this shitfest.

What really got me was the link posted upthread to a fight with Nipples she recorded. At least with the long and scary list GreatKazu posted, most of that was before her "sobriety," and most was caught on MTV's cameras and I really do think people at some point kind of forget they're around. However, a "sober" Jenelle recorded that fight with Nipples and it somehow got out of her phone and onto the internet. Those are not the actions of someone who is concerned about public humiliation because that fight? I'm humiliated for her, and I don't even like her. And I think she's an irresponsible idiot to continue to allow herself to be around someone like that, not to mention her children, and her mother. I agree with you, however, that I can see her staying in an abusive relationship, but more probably because she's actually comfortable in it, or is invested in being "right" about her choices. I'm not too sure about that. I think Jenelle's thinking is more centered on herself, and how she's better off without custody of Jace, and not that Jace is (relatively) better off with Barb. True dat. And most addicts aren't too worried about public humiliation, either.

And she doesn't seem to be too troubled by public humiliation.

I'm older than Caroline and have somehow managed not to get wrinkles on my chin and jawline. Such a problem area for wrinkles. I guess I'm just a genetic freak.

A few observations: Sad Panda said "Your guys's relationship..." Makes me hate him even more. Jenelle said her mother sometimes does "a complete 180." Impressive. She actually retained some geometry along the way. Kail said she'd learned her lesson about letting Suzi watch the kids. However, I noticed that when Javi said he was mad because they had specifically discussed this, and that she had fought him over it, Kail said the discussion took place after the incident with Suzi and Lincoln. They seem to agree that's all true. So what doesn't make sense is why Kail fought about it. Seems to me, if the incident affected Kail the way she said it did, when Javi later said, "I don't want Suzi taking care of my son because I don't trust her," what Kail should have said (especially if she was not wanting to admit she'd done exactly that), "You're right. She's not trustworthy and I will never let her watch him." Instead, she fought about it. Maybe it just hadn't sunk in until then (as other has noted, this is a very tough situation to deal with and Kail has fewer skills than a lot of people), but it just seems crazy that she'd go so far as to fight about it. Maybe they fight about everything...I don't know. But this one seemed like an easy way to offer up a "Yes, dear, you're exactly right."

Oh, I agree about the isolating thing, but didn't want to pin 100% of it on that unless it looked like there was no other reason for Jenelle and him to figuratively (this time, anyway) slap Barbara AND Jace in the face by choosing to live so far away. And actually, if they did it to be closer to his daughter, that's still a huge insult to Jace, and possibly an even more personal one. I kind of thought that, too, but I can't find anything one way or the other. Imagine...information about a reality TV participant (I won't even call that cretin a "personality") that isn't readily available by just browsing some tweets. What is the world coming to?

I found a story that said internet denizens were wondering whether Nip Kilmer's (!) mom had custody of Kaiser, and it quoted a tweet of Jenelles': "Nathan's mom lives 5 mins from us so she watches Kai for a hour while we workout.. If they MUST kno lmao" I think it was in another thread I wondered whether Nip's mother has custody of his daughter (Niplette?). Does anybody know? Because it might actually make a tiny bit of sense for him to want to stay close to there, regardless of his white-hot hatred of Barbara.

Nobody answered my question about Rino's eyebrows, so I did a little bit of searching around. I found a reference to a tweet by Jim Marchese about Rino's "overwaxed" eyebrows, so an eyewitness has identified them as hair, not ink. Still doesn't explain why he grooms them to look like that, but at least one mystery is solved. And honestly, is there ANYTHING Tiny Jim The Lost Ikea Monkey hasn't tweeted about? Sheeeeeeesh.

If Jenelle didn't put Jace up for adoption, there's no way in the world she'd do it for Kaiser. She's much more stable now than she was then. That's not saying much, I know, but she's infinitely more motherly now than she was back then. I thought Nathan's parents had custody of Nathan's other kid. I'm pretty sure it's not the kid's mother. Maybe her parents?

Sorry if this has been covered before, but what is the deal with Rino's eyebrows? Are they really ink? Is that what explains the weird looking texture, or lack thereof? But if they're fake, why did they stop when the job was only about 2/3 done? Shouldn't they have made them thinner but extending out farther, like if they were rationing ink? And if they're real, WTF? Those things should be in some sort of Ripley's exhibit because I just can't believe it.

I think that is to be envied.

I wonder if these girls are like [real] celebrities, in that they have to be careful about their private lives because you never know what someone's motivation is. It used to be you had to be wary that someone was buddying up to you because you were famous, and now I assume, in these tabloid times, that you also have to be wary that someone is motivated by selling a story. That's one reason famous people date other famous people--they're on a level playing field. But for these girls, there's no one really on their playing field, especially in these small towns. So I can actually see why Chelsea would think it's safe (using one definition of the word) to go back to Adam periodically. Plus, there's the possibility that she's still marking her territory, as mentioned upthread. However, in this case I think it's stupid (in addition to obviously gross) because she's wrestling about visitation with Aubree, and he's getting mixed messages: you are unfit to care for Aubree but it's okay if you fuck me. Now, it could be argued that these are separate and unrelated, but I'm not sure it would be persuasive, and besides, Adam would be too stupid to get it. But what I truly don't understand is why she admitted, on both shows, that she's doing it. She drew the line when asked about other relationships, so I know she can do it. Yet she spills about Adam, and actually gets a little cutesy about it. So yeah, maybe she's still asserting, to everyone out there, that she's still in the Adam game. And upsetting to me is that she doesn't seem ashamed. Come on. If you're going to do it, at least be ashamed. He's gross and he's treated you, and your daughter, like shit in the past.

It is impossible to imagine a world where Kathy is equal to Teresa - impossible. Maybe her taste in men? Upthread, some people opined that Juicy wasn't bad looking back in the day, but Richie? Gah. I didn't even see the pictures, but since the comments were something other than total revulsion, I'm going to have to grudgingly give this one to Teresa. Oh, holy shit that's funny.

I got that impression, too. But why should they? Chelsea has an IUD, so the pregnancy angle is taken care of. And it's not like Adam would be carrying, uh, wait a second. I wouldn't shake hands with him without wearing gloves, and she lets him what? But look at the bright side. The more people Adam looses his critters on (in?), the more medical professionals needed to treat them, and the more of them who will say, "Take me to the Ebola outbreak--I want to try curing something a little less horrifying." Everybody wins.

You're being too kind to Joe. You're intelligent enough to know what word he should have used but he actually said "arraigned"......I caught that today. Talk about a Freudian slip.

I have to say that it's never seemed to me like he even watches the show. I can't quite put my finger on exactly what it is, though. I do know that talented interviewers ask questions and elicit answers that are interesting both to people who know nothing about the subject and to people who know a lot about the subject, and none of this drivel rises to that level.

I think it was pretty obvious to everybody, except Barbara, that this was at the very least highly unlikely. I said a long time ago that it was a very tall order, but I think there's a middle ground, where Barbara could have gotten involved in making the authorities aware of what was going on, while emphasizing that she will NOT take Jace regardless of anyone's preferences. Let Jenelle "care" for the baby but keep a very close watch on the situation. A baby doesn't automatically die because someone's doing heroin around him, but it will definitely be a cause for action. Maybe Barb would have gotten lucky, for one time in her life, and found someone in authority who wanted to help. But she has no spine and took the path of least resistance, and even if she was doing it only because she thought it was the only choice for keeping him safe, her actions meant Jenelle was never forced to deal with Jace enough to make her realize she didn't want to have that responsibility. I suspect she would have given him up if the only two choices were between that and actually taking care of him. Actually, she did give him up, to Barbara, and she was willing to do that when she didn't have any responsibility for him at all and he barely affected her life. Foster care sucks, and terrible things have happened in that system. And it would break everyone's heart, I'm sure. But of the six signs of neglect mentioned, Jace has been subjected to three of them: lack of emotional nurturing, exposure to dangerous drugs, and exposure to dangerous people, and they took place in Jace's home, not in a crack house. Never mind what he's going to see when he's old enough to watch episodes of the show. It just pains me to see Jace suffering for all these bad decisions. I have no clue why Barbara ever allowed Jenelle to come around at all, why she constantly kicked her out of the house and then let her back in, and why she now gets into fights with Nipples while Jenelle sits on the couch like a zombie. Someone who really only wanted to keep Jace safe wouldn't do that. I think he's doomed. I so wish Barbara would get serious therapy, and do something to develop some parenting skills. But I'm pretty sure she'd say she's doing fine, it's just stressful because Jace acts up and may be bipolar.

That's why I'm so mad about Barb--she took over knowing she was 100% of the life raft, so I think "doing the best she can," while laudable, doesn't cut it. We need results, and I hope it's just the editing that has made it look like Jace is witnessing screaming and violence and instability. You look at Catelynn and Tyler from TM1--pretty much everybody agrees that adoption was the right thing, and Carly arguably had fewer strikes against her than Jace. Both parents were at least at that time still in the game. No family support on one side--or, well, it's hard to tell sides since Butch is Tyler's dad and Catelynn's step-dad. That right there would be a strike even if were someone other than Butch. But it's Butch so three strikes. And Tyler has a mother we didn't see much of but she doesn't seem outwardly incapable of helping out, but she procreated with Butch and I just have to hold that against her. But at least she was in existence. I think Barb took Jace because she hoped Jenelle would straighten out. That's nice, but if she doesn't (and sure enough, she didn't), then what? I think Barb took Jace without engaging in any more of a reality check than any of these teen moms do. It's somewhat forgivable for the teens, with their underdeveloped frontal lobes and all, but Barb was a grown woman with a sketchy track record on the child-rearing front. She should have thought for ten seconds about Jenelle's offspring. Why is Jenelle the way she is? Nature or nurture? If it's nature, Jenelle's offspring might very well have the same problems, problems Barb wasn't capable of addressing. If it's nurture, then it's all on Barb. Either way, all fingers point to Barbara NOT being the one who should be raising Jace. This may sound harsh, but I think she was being selfish when she took him on the hope that Jenelle would change, with as fallback Jace being raised by the same person who raised Jenelle. Only in her 50s this time, not her 30s.

You could say the same thing about Kail, or even Jenelle. I don't think life has been particularly kind to either of them, and they're doing the best they can. Yet they don't get a pass. Could be. Yet Barbara continues to allow this to happen, to Jace's detriment.

She'll claim she butt-dialed. Not her fault.