Pestilentia

I went into this knowing nothing so I had zero idea what to expect. I determined 'satire' pretty quickly but still have no idea what direction it will be taking. Still, it is different enough that I'll give it a few more weeks to settle in to itself. If Winslet signed up for it there must be something there worth watching, and if it keeps me away from true crime that's only a good thing.

SO late to the party and don't really expect discussion, but I was a fair bit bothered by their ability to match adult Julie's fingerprints in the drugstore via the national database. Unless they lifted prints from that child's bedroom or elsewhere in the house and submitted them how would they have even had her fingerprints in any database to match? I know that some parents do fingerprints of children as a preventative matter but was that common in 1980? My own child was 7-8 years old at that time and I don't even remember considering it and I myself have never been fingerprinted. I just feel like that should have been mentioned in passing, as it felt like a bit of a procedural omission to me. Then I thought maybe they did lift them from her home and used that as my basis for getting past it, otherwise it would simply keep niggling at me.

She is Turner, formerly Bertha's lady's maid, now married to Mr. Winterton.

To me that's how I knew it was a scam. That's how good grifters work, they make you feel as if everything was your idea. A bit of mild resistance is tossed out which only further inflames the desire of someone eager to make money hand over fist in a short period of time. Every word that was said to Oscar was only said to inflame his greed even more. If you watch all those scenes again you can see how the things said to Oscar were specifically worded to whip him into a frenzy- he couldn't write that check fast enough. It's a technique as old as time.

I know myself well enough to know that I too can be domineering and controlling because that's how women accomplish things in a man's world. I made certain to give my own daughter the skills to do the same- she can speak up when she needs to and advocate for herself. My question wasn't how such a situation can passively develop. It was more wondering why Bertha hadn't given her own daughter the same tools she herself found it necessary to utilize on a daily basis. She's smart enough to know how to walk the line between keeping Gladys somewhat malleable to her own wishes while providing that child the skills necessary to negotiate the very society she is trying to force her into. Bertha may be many things but short-sighted is not one.

Apparently I was the only one worried about that lynch mob- my heart sank when I saw them. All I could think was "Please don't go there, please don't go there." I saw that ridiculous kiss coming from a mile away yet just knew that smoke was going to start creeping in and they'd become trapped in that handy hayloft. Please stay in New York, Peggy. I adore them as a couple- we very rarely get to see true teamwork in a marriage and they have that one figured out perfectly. That's the way a marriage is supposed to work- supporting one another's goals. And I like Bertha, too- any woman in that day and age who could stand up for herself gets my vote. She has a clear destination in sight and she's going for it. How she managed to raise such a door mouse of a daughter escapes me though, as I find Gladys to be a whole lot of nothing. She has zero personality, extremely bland looks, seems interested in nothing, and is to me the anti-Bertha. What does she do all day? What does she want to do all day? Agnes lost her companion dog. The pet had been in training for many years and was very well behaved, it will be difficult to replace and that is quite annoying. Her outburst with the good Reverend was masterful acting- I could feel her mind awhirl with her own misery and fear. The words just BURST out of her mouth as if they had a life of their own- I was reminded of DeNiro's "What about me?" lament at the end of This Boy's Life. Utter confusion and pain and wrapped up so tightly within their own narcissistic hell that the thought of sitting in a room alone is terrifying. I find it very interesting that in an episode where the Russell's dinner party with The Duke provided us with all of the opulence we watch these shows for yet Agnes entrance to that wedding was the money shot. Baranski knocked it out of the park this episode and I am thrilled that we got that moment of her appearing like an avenging angel then walking into the church looking so magnificent. That was spectacular and that dress was to die for, especially set against that embroidered suspenders lederhosen looking abomination Ada was wearing. That headpiece was ugly- just bad. Haven't you heard? Hell hath no fury.

That's me as well. I am SO glad I didn't read any media about the show at all while watching it- I didn't even know the premise when I started it. "Shippers" have a weird pathology that colors their perception and makes them see things that aren't really there and all that noise in our head can affect our perception, too. So glad I missed that- it never even once occurred to me that Ted and Rebecca would get together. When Ted was choosing reading material at the airport we saw a smidgen of a tabloid headline mentioning something about "Akufo's downfall." I had been meaning to go back and take a better look about what it said but never got to it and the urge faded. It just made sense to me that Sam would end up playing for Nigeria. Akufo was such a jerk I figured that one of a thousand things could have taken him down so I didn't need an explanation.

Really? I don't think it "suggested" a thing. It's a simple as the child reminding Rebecca of herself as a child, no more no less. Me too. And people say "fan service" like it's a dirty word while I think series finales need to use more of it. A well planned and executed series finale seems to be lightning in a bottle, having been achieved 2-3 times tops in the entire history of television series. It's now clear that we are not going to get it every time- showrunners' minds have moved on, their head is already into the next project. As fans we have enjoyed the stories, characters, and writing for the duration of the season- if we're still here at finale time it's because we enjoy it. So why is is a dirty word to play the finale for the fans and give them a happy ending and a bit of closure? Sure Roy and Jaime were ridiculous, but people are ridiculous at times. Sure Rebecca running into Dutch guy was unrealistic and trite but it made me SO happy that she might be happy. Sure Beard marrying Jane was weird but most relationships have a side order of dysfunction lurking around within their depths. My point is I see zero downside to wrapping things up in a neat little bow for the fans. I guess I am not a sophisticated television viewer- if I want sophisticated writing I will look to literature, not a television series. If I do happen to run across a spectacularly constructed series finale it is a wonderful surprise but not something I expect, not these days. I have been terribly disappointed so many times that "Just OK" is a clear win. I think there was a lot of wisdom in this show and that was its gift to me, and I loved the closure that this finale provided. If there were bobbles that's life and does not negate the impact that the series as a whole provided me.

100% agree- she did it because she could. The last time she repeated "I just don't think you'd be good at it" to Kendall she pulled a smirk like nobody's business. I know that face- I've made that face. That is the face you make when you stick it to someone purely to piss them off and you enjoy doing it. Once she knew she wasn't getting it and Kendall lied to her face about killing the kid the fun was over and she was making certain that Kendall didn't get a damn thing that day. Purely sibling jealousy- I'm surprised she didn't toss in a "Neener neener" to emphasize her utter delight in screwing him over. As far as Shiv wanting to be a mother or raise her child better than she was raised? I have never ever seen Shiv act the least bit maternal- she rarely even looked at her DOG. Having never had a competent parent in her life she has zero frame of reference for parenting and no apparent interest in learning. I think that child is doomed to be as emotionally bereft as the rest of them- it hasn't a chance. Raised by narcissists, indeed.

Well, it was "Meh" bordering on "Just OK" for me. Lots of rehashing arguments between the sibs we've heard 100 times already, empty promises coming out of everyone's mouths, and narcissism on parade with remaining 'parents' Caroline and (step) Peter being just awful trying to pitch a smarmy deal at the worst possible moment. It was just awful people doing awful things. Don't know what I expected but I did not find this satisfying at all.

All a puppet would have to do is show up every day. Mattson has a stable full of minions to cover the day to day- he'd just install one of them as an assistant. And why are we worried about Greg's actual capabilities anyway? Any CEO chosen to pass muster in order to close a deal could easily be replaced after the smoke clears.

Anyone disregarding Greg because he is "unqualified"- what show have you been watching? The kids are ALL supremely unqualified, that's the point of the show. The world is run by bumbling idiots, Greg will fit right in.

I took "It's a yes" to mean that he had pitched an American CEO to Mencken (we saw that pitch, remember?) and Mencken seemed interested, so "they" are Mencken & company. She inferred that she herself might be that American CEO but that's all Shiv's hubris IMO, he has zero intention of working with her.

15 minutes ago I don't think Roman was "spoiling for a fight" at all, he was looking to be beaten senseless in order to escape his emotional pain..

It's a thing. At least it is a thing in the context of a loved one being terminal and the dying process involves months of suffering and stress. By the time they do die it is 100% a relief that their suffering is past and you've cried all you can cry. Of course that was not the case with Roman and his cavalier attitude toward his own grief is what did him in. As far as entering the mob and provoking violence- physical pain is a whole lot easier to handle than emotional pain. I felt as if he was hoping to be beaten to a pulp or even killed in order to escape the emotions that were dominating him, but falling and being near trampled to death works for a weasel. Kieran Culkin absolutely killed this- he made a snarky weasel sympathetic by showing us that he is no more than a child who wants his Daddy back- it was gut wrenching. I'm seeing here that he will be entering 'Lead Actor" territory at the Emmy's this year- I don't watch many other series and have no idea who he will be up against but if he doesn't win it is a travesty. That pain looked real and he dug deep. That was just an amazing "performance" so much so that I don't even like that word to describe it- that was an amazing depiction of grief. Loved the wives/mistresses club, Rava was right to remove the kids, and if Mattson wins this and needs a puppet then Greg is going to be that person. And of course Ewan is the only sensible person in that entire church as far as understanding that Logan Roy was not a "good man" like Shiv needs to think, or a "bad man" like various others like to describe him, but a shade of gray like all the rest of us fallible humans. Money and power corrupt nearly everyone who gets this type of access to it and he was no different- he was fallible and that's the lesson all of these kids need to take away from all of this- that *they* are fallible, too. Greed is going to be the downfall of our species and not even the Roy children can escape that.

IMO the only thing Tom respects is power. When it dawned on him that he had literally backed a dying horse he panicked and decided to go try to glom back onto Shiv. If anyone at all had even looked at him he'd have glommed onto them- he would attach himself to anyone he thought might benefit him. He doesn't love Shiv, she's just his best and last chance. He's terrified- if Gerri had said "Come sit by me" he'd have glommed onto her, if Frank and Karl opened up their little man club to him he'd have jumped right in. Tom is a follower and he'll always be orbiting someone else, he'll never even be central to his own life. All of these children have based their entire existence on reacting to their father- none of them have shown the least bit of agency other than Shiv working in politics before the show started, and even that was her reacting to her father. They are all simply scared little children bouncing between acting out for attention and sucking up for what they thought was love. They've done it for so long that they don't even understand the difference- they haven't a clue how to be authentic people. I think the only true "succession" any of them need is more a ecological type "succession" to a new land/field of endeavor. One of them needs to step up as a "pioneer species" within the Roy clan and strike out into new territory involving ethics and honesty and sensitivity to the people that they presume to love. Our current "Roy family" is a “climax community” and it's time for a cleansing forest fire and a reboot if you ask me. THAT would be the only "succession" that would be of benefit to anyone. If they all keep walking the same path they're gonna end up bums on the street. None of the three of them are competent in any field whatsoever unless you can make a living whining and being entitled. They don't even know what loyalty or having each other's backs even means- I think they are all three doomed and I think it couldn't happen to a nicer bunch, we reap what we sow. What I don't think is that the end of this is going to tie up in a neat little bow and an official "Successor" chosen. I think the title itself is a giant misdirection and we're all missing the point somehow, and after all the sound and fury of these four seasons I think the end will be surprisingly "meh." Because nothing will make any of these three happy- they're doomed because they have never learned how to be happy. They've never been around happy people that are content- they have an inherent happiness void like a missing gene. I don't think Greg is or has been anything other than a bit of comedic interlude- IMO he's a red herring that will never amount to anything.

Couldn't agree more. I am tired of Tom and Shiv speaking daggers to one another, tired of Roman's ridiculous "What Dad wanted/Dad's plan" obsession and tired of Kendall faking being successful. I don't even know what happened this episode to advance anything other than Mattson screwing around with Shiv's ego by making her think somebody actually values her somehow. It all felt like an episode that didn't know what it was trying to say other than all three of them have brains in chaos. The whole 'trying to complete the deal immediately after Logan's death' is absurd anyway- I don't even see how a competent board would want them flying all over and determining the direction of multiple lives in that state of mind. Regardless, a death like that leaves one frazzled and with your mind going a thousand directions- most of us don't even remember the week immediately following a parent's death. IMO they should have taken a minimum week long hiatus, left the Old Ones in charge, and at least taken a few breaths and try to get centered a bit. Roman should have told Mattson to pound sand before they got to the top of Mount Arrogant, not after. At least then if it all falls apart it it wasn't because they rushed in headlong and frazzled.

Yes, but when she does speak all that falls is out is "Yeah, no- whatever." That's the only resemblance I see to Logan in any of them- the ability to use any one of 200 words in a non-committal phrase to get out of saying anything. Not that any of them are articulate or have any sort of fluency in English whatsoever- if you eliminate catchy buzz words from their vocabulary. I'd have thought they would have received better educations.

Unpopular, but I still prefer his Hannibal Lecter to Hopkins'- I found him much more chilling. Those are Romulans, lol.

Something that bothered me and I have not seen discussed- as Roman was walking to the plane to see DeadDad he took his jacket off on the way across the tarmac. When he walked back to the press conference area his jacket was nowhere in sight- he left it behind. I think something is up with that. I can't speculate as to what- if he cushioned Logan's head with the jacket with his phone remaining in the pocket he'd have an excuse to ask for a phone back from the medical examiner's office. Maybe his only reason to go see DeadDad was to look for his phone or do something hinky with the phone or hide the phone. IMO there is "phone drama" to come and I think somehow this will figure in. I dunno- I just found it odd that Roman took his jacket to and left it on the empty airplane.

Regardless- she is his wife. That's the most "intimate" relationship out there- a wife 'wins' the position of #1 Mourner by default. Had he wanted her to not be his wife (and entitled to all that entails) he could have ended it at any time- he did not choose to do that. So legally she is still afforded the respect and consideration due a Grieving Widow. I'll root for her. You don't live with a man like Logan Roy (and horror of horrors, sleep with him) without giving up parts of yourself even if you do get to shop in Italy the entire season. The misery she had to endure by being around him, being marginalized, disregarded, ignored- IMO she deserves every cent and piece of property she can get her hands on. She put in the time and now is due the payoff- I kinda hope she is able to screw everyone over. She won't, but she'll be fine and god willing enjoy many years of not even having to think about what a miserable old bastard Logan was other than raising a glass to him every time she checks her bank statement.

Logan said a lot of things to a lot of people. I'm just wondering how badly Tom's tongue must be hurting after the day he had- you just know he's been biting it the entire time. Tom is terrified- all that is swirling around in his head is fear of being left out of the future of Waystar/Royco. He wants so badly to babble to someone/anyone and knows he cannot broach the topic just yet- I'm enjoying watching him squirm. His first thought was to cover his own ass by calling Greg to destroy files. Heck, I even think his calling the kids/allowing them to speak to their dead father was at least calculated to some degree- he was doing a thing that would endear him to them/Shiv so she/they wouldn't throw him out on his ass after the dust settles.

Even minus the one leg he has an awful lot more edible muscle mass than Jackie did- he would be the one to provide them a few extra helpings later on. It's easy to forget that these are high school kids. No boy that age is going to notice signs of illness in a person that already spends the bulk of their time lying down and withdrawn. I do think Ben will be the next to go and call me evil but I'm looking forward to seeing their mouths automatically watering when the realization of the size of their next meal first hits them. How they play that is going to be FUN!

If that moment where the crown fell was indeed improvised/unscripted then I nominate it for the best on-screen improvisation ever- it made that moment. Minus the crown falling it would have been a tender scene, sure- Daemon helping Viserys get to the throne without collapsing. But Daemon picking it up and replacing it on Viserys head was so utterly tender and loving that it elevated the entire scene to a remarkable degree- it gave it gravitas. It said everything about the relationship between the two and I just found it remarkably touching. I thank the old gods and the new that everyone involved on set managed to keep the scene rolling and use it in the final cut. It's so remarkable that I kinda sorta think it couldn't have possibly been improvised, but if the actors say it is so then who am I to say. At any rate it was one of the best television moments I can recall for quite a while.

We only saw her most recent reaction- Alicent has had a lot of practice and has likely reacted each of ten different ways before she found the method that remedied the situation most expeditiously. That she settled on "kindness and cash" was a pragmatic decision and in no way mitigated her enabling of her son's behavior. It's no secret that the mediums differ extensively, the main difference being book readers get to SEE the names written every time we read about their exploits- the differences in spelling are right there in front of you over and over and over. Television viewers do not see that advantage. We hear a name in passing- likely garbled or accented and have difficulty following who it is. That does not make us stupid, that makes the medium different and thus necessitating different methods. Making names more easily distinguishable should be part of that process. I well and truly resent having to keep an open page on my phone with "House of Dragons Cast" photos open so I can SEE their names written and follow just to watch a damn TV show. It's just TV, it's a passive activity and me having to work to watch it seems a bit much. Sure, it all comes together on the rewatch, which is half why the damn shows are so successful anyway- we all have to watch each episdoe three times to get things straight enough to absorb all the nuance. We're tired, we're in our jammies, it's late, and we worked all day already, and it shouldn't have to be this much work, lol. Nine tenths of why I come here is to find out what I just watched, what happened when I blinked, what's going on as I dozed off. And just don't with "Not their responsibility that you can't pay attention," or that viewers are stupid. My husband doesn't read any forums etc. and he is not a stupid man but I promise you he has no idea of half what he is watching here with the names, time jumps, 15 different children, etc. And that's fine if that's how you want your TV show received. But one would think a faster emotional connection with the characters would strengthen one's attachment to the show and be the desired reaction. And to that end one might even think the showrunners to be "stupid" if they did not even understand the differences between the mediums of book and television and take the steps necessary to bridge those differences.