Pestilentia

I was just annoyed that throughout the picnic scene with all the "But you're married to a man!" comments not once did anyone use the name "Steve." WHY did they totally avoid using his name? That's adding insult to injury in that he's no longer even a person, just a vague entity. I feel like surely to god someone would have made the one simple and direct statement "When Steve cheated you absolutely flipped your shit- how is this any different?" Both Charlotte and Carrie should have taken her to task on that far more closely instead of being sidelined by the lesbian BS. The past two episodes CN's red hair has been clearly visible at the nape of her neck as if that hideous wig was slapped on right as she walked in to do the scene with zero adjustment. That is just sloppy work- does no one give them a once over to ensure that they are camera ready? It looks like the older men that buy used toupees at Goodwill and stick them on their heads with no thought to anything. It's ridiculous. I agree the white apartment was stark, but it was empty- any empty apartment is going to feel that way especially when everything is white. Once you bring in color and art for the walls and scatter some texture around it could quite easily be made to be very attractive and even have a cozy spot or two. And yes, the labels on those packing boxes were obvious and clearly very detailed. And IMO any competent packing/moving service is going to have at least one box labeled for immediate use- a coffee pot, bedding, paper towels, toilet paper etc. Great name for the next reboot- "How stupid do they think we are?"

I'm glad Big died- I always got major smarm vibes off of him. I also think he viewed Carrie as cute and adorable and fun when he felt like it, but he never considered her an equal or a true partner in his life. IMO she was always an accessory. I think Carrie should have decided to go man-less and work on her self for a bit- find out who she is and what she wants beyond having a man. Carries needs to mature.

Well, you have to allow a little time to pass before you retaliate against anyone who has wronged you, otherwise your name will come up as they investigate the crime. Good grudges never die! I love the idea that they intentionally left someone living behind. That's exactly the sort of 'wrong' that is vile enough to warrant a 20 year plan, lol.

I've loved Misty since her first appearance on the soccer field- she is spunky and quick to act, both qualities I admire tremendously. No shrinking violet or should I/shouldn't I/ analysis paralysis type BS in her world- she sees a problem and BAM! jumps right into action. Sure, she is crazy but only a little bit, lol. Two degrees in the other direction she could easily move from crazy to merely "wildly eccentric." At least if you stay on her good side!

I'm a bit confused by all the suggestions that "HR" would be intervening in the Che behavior thing. I'm 100% with you that the behavior is unprofessional, but most podcasts are done by little start up type businesses or individuals, especially one of this narrow a "niche" audience. They wouldn't have an HR department, a payroll department, etc.- it would far more likely just be one or two people trying to get something going. I'm not able to recall the exact setting of the podcast people (or who actually owns the podcast) but typically it would be someone's spare bedroom, not a room at some corporate headquarters. There likely is no "HR." And just to amuse myself I dug up some old SATC eps where SJP had a shorter haircut and it looks fabulous. All that long hair is dragging her down and hers is not a face shape that deals well with that. There is a reason most women forego the long hair past a certain age. If you change liked to likes I agree. And I think that makes her far too close to be able to see things objectively. The current tone of this show makes me wonder if she isn't living vicariously through younger Carrie and just can't let it go. And that's just sad. I think you're dreaming. Even if she had been reconsidering (which I very highly doubt) she would see this shit show and think again. And last- I and every other woman I know learned a great deal and became much wiser in the years between their 30's and their 50's. These ladies haven't learned a damn thing or matured even slightly and IMO it's insulting to all of us in this demographic. My life is wonderfully rich and I think a bit interesting even minus all the adolescent angst of boyfriends and cute shoes and insecurity. We still have interesting lives but we've eliminated the drama because we know ourselves a lot better now. This reboot eliminated the maturation and kept the drama. This Carrie is everything I want to avoid as an older woman- someone trying desperately to hang on to youth and looking ridiculous in the process- that net skirt on a 50+ woman is beyond ridiculous. If your personal style doesn't evolve as you age you end up looking like Ellie Mae Clampett all your life- and if you take it too far you turn into Baby Jane. Those pearls in the recovery room were very Baby Jane.

A lot of people would call that an unnecessarily nitpicky case of semantics.

Yes, but I am truly appalled by Steve and Miranda just sitting there taking it. The kids are just kids- disrespectful and bratty kids, but kids. The adults are supposed to teach them what proper behavior is, and both these adults are ineffectual "parents."

One would think, but having been widowed 30 days in- at least they had their happily ever after. Over time that type of grief can turn to gratitude for having received the gift of a life together. I never even got to open my 'gift.' I am old now so have seen many friends lose spouses and the women handle it WAY better than the men 90% of the time. Women seem to be far more resilient while men just fall into this bottomless pit of despair and many never do climb back out. They either waste away or remarry very quickly while the women go out and have fabulous single lives with their gal pals. It's a little weird but I've seen it over and over. I truly hate Miranda in this reboot. I thought she was smarter than this awkward/don't even know when to shut up babbling idiot. Very true.

Oh, of course. I think Logan has finally met his match (old age) and has been panicking over the meeting for some time now. It's slipping away- he's lost his grip. IMO selling is his way of saying "I meant to do that!" He's trying to maintain his facade of controlling events because he knows he's losing it anyway. And IMO he's got a really bad case of being the 'dog in the manger' but only with respect to his children. He simply doesn't want any of them to succeed him. Period. I did want to talk about Logan's reaction to meeting Mattson. Remembering how Adrien Brody tried to kill Logan and took perverse glee in humiliating him by walking him to death? Mattson was the polar opposite- markedly polite and respectful. Calling him a legend, being extremely deferential and still kindly and gently reminding Logan what a dinosaur he is. Do we think Mattson's demeanor there had any influence on the deal or would Logan have stayed and dealt with him even if he had he been less respectful? Would Logan really respond to being 'handled' like that? It had to have been clear to him that Mattson was indeed 'handling' him- did it not matter to him or did he swallow it? And if he did then did he swallow it sincerely or purely to make the deal? I would have loved to watch that negotiation.

I think Tom is simply a crapweasel with no loyalty toward anyone- he'll side with whomever is dangling the tastiest carrot at the time. Tom is easily led. Tom is a tool in more ways than one. If Shiv had half a brain she would see him and utilize him to further her own position, but no she can't even do that- she's too consumed with her own fantasy pursuits. I despise both of them. Why did the show give these two career obsessed morons a dog? They barely ever speak to Mondale- he's either in a crate/expen, in his bed, or eating Shivs clothing. They've alluded to "the help" and his dogwalker but again- why do they even have him? If he's supposed to make them look like a 'real' couple or family, or homey, or "just like us" then you'd think they'd at least have one scene outdoors with poor Mondale getting some stimulation outside that penthouse. I feel sorrier for the dog than anyone else in this whole mess- he's trapped in his gilded cage just like the rest of them. I don't believe I have seen an explanation for the episode title "All the Bells Say"- do we know what that is in reference to?

I think Logan runs every scenario through his head and lays booby traps at every turn whether it's Plan A, Plan B, or Plan Z. The ability to foresee and anticipate every possible outcome and cover your ass ahead of time on all of them is how moguls get to be moguls.

All three of them (Ken, Shiv, Roman) in the car were on the phone to multiple people getting their ducks in row to confront Logan. Presumably at least one or two of these calls were answered by receptionists and patched through, so several people knew that something was going down. And if Lacky Slacky includes receptionists/secretaries (which of course it does) to track the goings on of mega-moguls then who is surprised when there's a leak? I know the show played it as if it was solely Tom and we here seem to buy that- I do, too. But IMO it is not incontrovertible. I think Tom just found a really fun punching bag in Greg. Greg is a bit daft, a bit slow, a bit naive, and very gullible. He's just an easy target for someone whose only joy in life seems to be verbally abusing underlings. That Greg's idea of success include having his own 'Greg' (you could have 20 Gregs!) to abuse tells us that business relationships are a lot like personal relationships- we learn them by observing others. Logan is no more than a conniving bully, and Tom seems to have attached himself to Logan and is following his example on how to "lead." Then Greg admires Tom and gets his own lackey to bully and on and on it goes. Is he the one doing the kicking or is he the dog? They are all both. All except Logan and I swear if I don't get a deathbed scene of he himself getting kicked... But then I remember the scars he tries to hide so badly have never been explained and he was abused himself, so this is simply a never ending circle of people behaving badly because they were never taught otherwise and had no decent role models anywhere in their lives. Logan's only advantage is that he learned strategy along the way and provides for all contingencies in his plans. He's always three steps ahead because he lays the groundwork for every move that includes all possible outcomes. The kids make a plan and go all in but they never have Plan B or Plan C in their back pockets, so when they hit a snag all they can do is stand there and look dumbfounded. Shivs face when he said "Make your own pile!" was priceless. It was exactly as if someone had said "All you have to do is redirect the dilithium crystal output to the flux capacitor and reverse the polarity of the neutron flow." She was LOST I tell you! But yeah, I'm quite certain Logan had everything in place for all possible outcomes right down to Plans X, Y, and Z. They just never learn.

Well, she did sort of clutch at her belly as she realized what Tom had done. They've been discussing baby making an awful lot lately. Maybe they thought they were just talking planning but life found a way and subconsciously Shiv felt it. I know that I knew I was pregnant almost at the moment of conception and stranger things have happened than an accidental pregnancy rocking one's world. That would explain the dress which I too thought did not fit quite right- maybe that was intentional. I don't think Marcia gives the first crap- she got the deal she wanted for herself and both of her kids. Her 'appearance' at events like this was negotiated and she is well paid. And I think that's as far as it goes for Marcia.

I'd call it "on pause." We don't think it is going any further but at this point it's not certain.

This is sort of irritating me. Why would he be there? No way would Lady Caroline have invited him. He's family. She remembered him fondly from when he was born- she called him "Greg the Egg." As Logan's wife at the time she would have been his great-aunt and enormous festivities like this always invite all family. He's family.

It's an apology, a defense, and an excuse that can be taken many ways. And they are probably all true. As a non custodial and often very bad mother myself I can tell you that I have felt all those things. I would never say I shouldn't have had a child, but I shouldn't have. Instead I remind them of my age when I gave birth (18) and also remind them what a safe, nurturing environment they grew up in while being raised by a dad and wonderful step mother. I remind them of all the things that could have gone wrong had I not stood up and said "I can't do this." And I also expect a modicum of understanding once they clear 40-45 years of age- even while understanding that childhood hurts stick. So I do think Caroline is a narcissist and a terrible person. But people are multi-faceted and she could also have regrets about how she handled things while still presenting the appearance of being cold and uncaring. I also think that she is old enough now to understand the damage she has done even if it is inadvertent, and at least try to appear like she gives a crap or wants them around as more than staging for her wedding. That she continues to twist the knife at this stage in all their lives just illustrates that she is as broken as the rest of them. We're just seeing more of the dysfunction these kids grew up in and why they have zero clues about personal relationships- they have quite literally never been exposed to a good one. The "succession" we are watching may not be the chase for the "Top Spot" at all- it may simply be a continuing succession of broken people passing the dysfunction on from one generation to the next.

When he was taunting the kid over offering the million dollar home run he waved/gestured to someone out of frame and said "Where's our checkbook? Is it in your bag?" Paraphrasing of course, but... And I think there could be a million reasons why Logan started calling Shiv "Pinkie" initially (she looked like a newborn mouse at birth?) but I do get the feeling that it started quite early in her youth. He uses it to manipulate her so he must feel she has enough sentiment surrounding it to make her vulnerable to his using it. So no, not a 'commie' reference.

The official HBO page lists Shiv as the youngest Roy child. This article lists Connor mid-50s, Kendall 39, Roman mid-30s, Shiv early 30s.

Kendall could have any life he wants. A "2 bil" buyout would give him the opportunity to quite literally do anything he wants for the rest of his life. What is he getting from remaining in the Roy circle that can compete against 2 billion? People do things for reasons- there is some need deep inside him that is being met by all this misery, otherwise he wouldn't do it. Dysfunctional reasons, but reasons. Perhaps he is so bereft of emotion that feeling anything, even extreme sadness, is preferable to feeling nothing. I see Kendall as being a weird amalgamation of all the C cluster personality disorders. He needs treatment and he needs to take the freaking buyout and leave this foul family- I think a lifetime of hash and sex in Marrakesh sounded lovely. Everyone was very amped up at this party and while it wasn't directly referenced other than Kendall calling for Reece? to come set Askar up, there was a lot of coke around. I'm thinking Roman's outburst was coke induced. Not that it excuses him but it explains it enough that I can still love Roman. Not everyone is at their worst during tragedy and their best during triumph- graceful winning and losing is taught to children and that's just one more life lesson the Roy kids never received. Roman's lashing out is the way he deals with his own damage- hurt people hurt people. I don't mean to defend him really, but his coping mechanism is a smart mouth and IMO that is as pathological as Kendall's emptiness or Shiv's cluelessness or Connor's delusions. I can't blame him 'more' for being a smart ass than I can blame Kendall for being mentally ill- it's all fallout from childhood neglect and abuse. I really want them to get into the childhood specifics of all of them, but especially Roman. His repeated jabs that mention getting father-fucked have come by just a tad too often to be baseless. I doubt that particular abuse ever took place but somebody did something heinous to the smallest and most vulnerable Roy child and I want to know who and what. I know Shiv is younger but she's tougher IMO and the male children seemed to suffer most. Regarding the stall in storyline, if they can't write any better than this I suggest season 4 be individual stand alone episodes detailing some backstory on the childhood of this bunch- a Kendall ep, a Shiv ep, etc. Probably a topic for a different thread.

I'm not far enough along in my thought processes to wonder how it is going to play out- I'm still wondering if it is going anywhere specific. The appeal of watching a gorgeous trainwreck full of nothing really happening is starting to fade. Surely it's going somewhere, but like I said last week, other than the odd moment of "Ooh, that's a nice bit of acting" there hasn't been much about this season that thrills me. If this was my first season of Succession it could very possibly be my last. I did enjoy Tom's reaction to the threat of prison having been reduced. I enjoy Greg any time. Logan's hair looked weird like they were trying to work in a hairpiece the wrong color. Sad-Eyes Kendall is pitiful. Shiv in another stunning gown. Roman amuses himself with his own acerbic babble. All very pretty and all very static. All those gifts being tossed around without any regard to their content felt pretty profound to me- a pile of very pretty boxes likely full of nothing interesting getting tossed around by a mad father trying to find the one piece in there that has any substance at all. Kind of like the Roy family. Somebody needs to shake things up- if the FBI/DOJ is going to drop the ball then who will lead the charge?

Parody.

I see only the good in Roman- he's broken as are they all, but he's an adorable and fun broken person. Just the type of man 20 year old me would have fallen for because, you know- I could have fixed him (I do know better now). Plus he looks like an old boyfriend who may have been 'the one who got away.' And I see only the bad in Tom who strongly reminds me of an old boyfriend who had a couple of odd... proclivities. At least I know where my own bias comes from. I did feel the HoYay, absolutely- I remember thinking to myself "I sure hope they don't go there with Roman" because there's enough going on with him as it is. Unless and until we get some sort of backstory or hint at the exact nature of his issues are I think throwing in even more is a mistake. Why has no one except Roman mentioned Connor's total lack of any work history at all? They all discuss his potential candidacy as a viable thing when he's in fact laughable. "Hi, I'm a rich asshole who has never worked a day in my life and I'm running for President. I have never held a job before but I really think I could do it! So vote for me and I'll give it a try." It's too absurd even for this show. I too am finding this season to be a lot of nothing. Other than Kendall walking down a hallway it's been tedious with the same thing over and over- I need something to happen. And I really don't get the significance of the kid's mom not notifying them of an impending wedding. These adult children never seem to think of her or talk about her or remember her fondly or even talk to her- they have no personal relationship with her. I have an adult child like this who does their level best to ignore my existence and I did not notify them the last time I got married, either. Our lives have long since gone in different directions. And while that is sad I think it is more common than not.

But Tom took over after the crimes took place. All of the illegal incidents were because of Mo's proclivities and that was some time ago according to Bill. And if statutes have run out- again, it all happened some years ago. Remember Logan ranting about not remembering "a quarter century ago"?

IMO Tom is no more than a asshole bully, and an exceedingly mean one at that. He takes absolute glee in cutting down everyone 'below' him in station- the absolutely scathing words he uses to threaten Greg for instance. Tom is one of those people who needs other people to feel small so that he can feel big.

Well, I need to rewatch- I was unnaturally distracted the entire episode by the fear that Logan was going to whip it out and indulge his penchant for inappropriate peeing. Or see a puddle at his feet or have him ask his assistant to bring a bucket. Especially when they revealed that the closest functioning restroom was down a hallway and up a set of stairs I just knew I needed to be ready to avert my eyes, lol. I swear the people on this show are masters of the non-commital answer. The many and varied iterations of "Huh" and "Mmm" that fall out of Logan's mouth are just left lying there for the recipient to interpret poorly at will. He's the worst about it but Shiv is pretty good and of course the rest of them do it as well. Hedge your bets until the bitter end, Roys! Shiv: "So am I still in? For the spot? The big job?" Logan: "Mmmm." Shiv: "Oh thank you so much, I knew you loved and respected me and that you'd want me to take over for you because I'm the best of the lot. Thank you so much for this vote of confidence and opportunity- I know I can do this!" Logan: "Mmmm." He just dumps out a big giant hole of a non-response that leaves people free to insert whatever they wanted to hear. They do so and then end up disappointed- not that they inferred poorly but that he reneged on what he 'said.' It could all be solved if everyone would just answer a damn question honestly instead of turning their brains inside out trying to construct a reply that best serves their own interests, or what they anticipate their interests might be six steps down the road. That's what's wrong with this family- you can't get a firm yes or no out of any of them. I would find that so infuriating! The entire bunch are simply so devoid of any trust or honesty at all- anywhere in their lives. I mean who among them has a partner they trust implicitly and confide in and share fears and dreams? I get finagling in business but looks like in one's personal life they'd want at least one person on their team. The way they've evolved as a family even asking what's for breakfast could be a minefield of a question fraught with booby traps and met with suspicion. They are just all so lost.