Biggie B

The necklace wasn't Jack's dog tags. It was either a religious icon of some sort, like St. Jude, or one of those AA tokens.

What did you all make of Kate saying to Kevin, "I took my eye off the ball. You are the ball." And no one rebutted that. I know this was Kevin's session, and that they weren't there to help Kate work through her issues. And her miscarriage was acknowledged. But still - that is some grist for the mill for Kate. She clearly has guilt over not saving Kevin from himself, even though he's an adult; she no longer works for him and or has 24/7 access; and she had and still has her own problems and challenges going on. But saying that she took her eye off the ball/Kevin is something for another therapist to address with Kate! A part of me, though, wanted Kevin to say to Kate, in response, "Hey, no - it wasn't your responsibility to keep me on the straight and narrow," or something like that. I just found that moment a bit sad for Kate, even though I'm sure no one, Kevin included, blames her at all. It's interesting that that's how she saw Kevin's descent into drinking/drug use, though.

It was interesting to me that Kevin felt he was overlooked by his parents. We have seen that Jack was Kevin's adoring fan and supporter - never missed a game, took videos, and was clearly very invested in Kevin playing college and hopefully pro football. I guess that didn't compare to the amount of time or quality of time that Kate spent with Jack, and Randall spent with Rebecca. Kevin isn't wrong - he was the odd kid out at times, and it has affected almost every aspect of his adult life to date. He has a long road ahead of him, if he wants to try to work on this. He will never have the chance to confront Jack about any of it, and that's a problem/challenge as well. What I liked about this episode was that it showed how we viewers can be completely pissed off or annoyed by a character one moment, and then suddenly sympathize/empathize with them the next. I like that it's not completely cut and dry. Even when one of the characters says or does something completely idiotic/offensive/nonsensical, etc., there is another moment or line of dialogue that counters that off-putting moment. I had to laugh when the three siblings were sitting on the bench, and Randall said he wished that their life had been videoed so that they could go back and review it...well, it has been! That's what we're all watching! Ha!

While I agree that so much of this episode was a bit whacky (her general lack of preparation for living where she was, as already noted, the ineptitude of the ranger, etc.), I thought it was rather enjoyable! First and foremost, Liz's hair looked the best it has ever looked since this show came on the air. FINALLY. It was straight and neat and highlighted her cheekbones. It didn't look as if rats had been nesting in it. Hallelujah! And I also agree with a prior post that noted how good Liz looked in that close fitting hat. But for the first time, I actually felt like Liz was somewhat strong, competent, and shrewd. It was a relief, too, to see her on her own - no Tom, no Red, no task force. Just Liz, and because I knew it wasn't going to last, I was OK with that much of her at once. This might've been the first episode in which she didn't scream at Red about lying to her, or telling him she never wanted to see him again. 'Cause that got old after the 875th time of her saying the same crap to Red: "I hate you! I'm done with you!" and then, boom, there she is with him again. I was extremely upset that the dog was killed. That was sickening and uncalled for - she shouldn't have even HAD a dog, since the whereabouts of the other dogs is such a bad, long running joke. So it angered me that an innocent creature was killed in such an awful way. I did think it odd that Red didn't make any fuss at all that he wasn't going to be caring for his granddaughter Agnes, but now, after reading this thread, I see that it makes sense that Scottie took her - it conveniently gets rid of her. And I'm OK with that. It was too distracting watching Liz and Tom in constant danger, running all over creation, knowing they had a very young child somewhere with a nanny or whoever. I get that the actress was pregnant and that it would have been very difficult to not have the character be pregnant - they would've had to resort to the old soap opera tricks of putting her in a coma for a while, off camera (but as the main character of the show, next to Red, that wouldn't work), or somehow otherwise incapacitate her character, seeing as a heavily pregnant actress can't run around doing all those action scenes with Tom. So yeah, they had to have Liz actually be pregnant but now, ta-da, they've easily disposed of Agnes, all the while leaving her return easily manageable at any time, should they so desire. Fine by me. For what it's worth, I thought Tom was a more capable parent, which isn't saying much, but in the scenes he had with the baby, I bought into it, whereas I never really felt the connection between Liz and Agnes. So overall, I got a kick out of this little diversion. Plus, I really like that song that played as all the bodies were being tagged and bagged at her cabin - "No Roots," by Alice Merton.

I didn't think the takedown at the ball was that good. I kept waiting for something bigger to happen but it never really did. I mean, we the viewers know all the horrible things Diana did - but the partygoers did not, and I don't feel as if they got enough information to be as shocked as they were. I know it wasn't possible for Cookie to spell out every single detail of every bad deed, but...I felt as if it was just a lot of scenes of Cookie yelling into the microphone, punctuated by Diana ordering her lackey to get the police. It was unsatisfying to me, somehow. I did enjoy seeing Hakeem and Jamal in tails, though. Very nice. I'm glad Hakeem got Bella back, and that he even mentioned that he'd let Anika see Bella. He handled that scene well - stayed calm, was forceful without going overboard, and made it work out. Good for him! I didn't like that Cookie slept in her ball gown. Even with all of her own clothing removed from the mansion, surely she would've slipped into something of Lucious' to sleep in - that was silly, to sleep in that dress. I, too, fail to see the point of Becky being pregnant. OK, so how is Angelo's shooting going to work out? It does NOT look good for Jamal, although assuming Warren is not seriously injured, he can provide the eye witness account of what actually happened (assuming, too, that he's believed).

I'd read weeks ago that the actress who plays the First Lady was leaving the show, so I figured she'd be killed. How else could they get her off the show? It's not like her marriage was rocky and they were on the verge of divorcing. I didn't like her character at all, found her insufferable, so I am thrilled she's gone! However, it stinks that it seriously and negatively affects a character I do like, so that's not so great. And now, what about those awful, awful children? Since the start of this show, I'd hoped they'd be sent off to boarding school (preferably out of the country), but now that their mother has died, the last thing the President will want to do is send them away. UGH! I have to admit, I was barely paying attention to this episode. I wanted the baby to die and or its mother, as well as everyone in the cabin. Darwinism! And the refusal of treatment for religious reasons has been done on every medical drama for the past 20 or more years - it's wildly unoriginal and has only two resolutions: either someone dies a tragic, unnecessary death (even more dramatic when it's a child), or, someone caves and consents to the treatment, feeling horribly guilty and confused in their faith. Ho hum. And I would've let the people in the cabin burn without so much as a moment's hesitation. The British agent - of course he's still alive! And why the HELL did he not just SAY to Hannah, "Here is the explanation of what's really going on [explanation provided], and I can show you XYZ that will support what I'm telling you!" Don't tell her that you have some magical thing in your pocket that will explain everything - TELL Hannah exactly what you have, and why it's relevant. Why oh why does it always happen that Character A says to Character B, "I can explain everything," yet they never do. JUST SAY IT! USE YOUR WORDS! And even worse - Hannah shoots this guy, seemingly kills him, and then just goes off alone to a bar? I get that she was shaken to the core, but should she not have notified...someone??? Anyone?? Does she even have a boss anymore? Or is she just a contractor? At this point, the show needs to change its name. The original premise has long been resolved and dispensed with. The show is just a poor man's version of The West Wing, to which it will never, ever compare.

Oh yes, toolazy, I agree - it is only new to those who have been there five minutes (figuratively speaking). I definitely do not mean to dismiss or overlook or discount in any way the people who'd been living there for generations, and who'd established rich cultures and civilizations. I think what struck me was the blank slate that Jamie and Claire have before them - a chance to start an entirely different and new life. Ian's integration into Native American life was, to me, one of the most intense parts of these books and I am curious as to how it will be portrayed.

I enjoyed this episode. I find that, for the most part, there are parts of every episode that either fall flat for me, or that I simply don't care about, but it all balances out. Or rather, there are more scenes/storylines that I am invested in, so I can tolerate the stuff I don't like or care about. In this episode, I could've done without the sex scene. I just didn't quite care. I sort of felt bad that Margaret's brother was killed - not that he was a nice guy or anything, but I'm not sure he needed to be killed. I guess it made for heightened drama in that scene and actually, when one of the men grabbed his wig and put it on, I found that very powerful visually. The underwater scenes elicited eye rolls from me. Of course Claire wasn't going to die, so...whatever. Whether Jamie was kissing her or tying to blow oxygen into her, I found that just weird. Wouldn't water rush in to her open mouth once he took his mouth off of hers? And how the heck did he even find her? In the midst of a raging hurricane, I am guessing that the water wouldn't be quite as clear as it looked down there. Wouldn't it be almost black, without any sunlight to illuminate it? It just seemed next to impossible that she could be located so quickly in such conditions. Jamie was on the deck and it was raining so hard and the waves were smashing into him with the force of a firehose being shot in his face - how did he manage to look over the side of the ship and know exactly where Claire was, underwater no less, in the open, raging, sea? Loved Lord John Grey - awesome scene, terrifically acted, and man, is David Berry gorgeous or what? Glad that Gellis is dead. She was insane. I'm happy they're done with Jamaica. I didn't love that part of the books and while there were some intense moments, it's definitely time to move on! At the end, when Jamie and Claire learn where they are (and yes, how bizarre that that family just strolled away without even offering to help them stand up!), and the camera panned out to show us the vast expanse of land lying before them, I felt an emotional swell in my throat. It really moved me - to think they were there, at the impending birth of a new country was something I found very profound.

Ah, OK, I don't pay that close attention - I thought last week or the week before was the first time he'd seen the evil DuBois-employed Doctor.

Yes, I think so, because the first time Andre met with that new (DuBois) doctor, Andre told him, "I've met someone!" and was talking about her. As messed up as Andre is right now, I'm glad Pamela wasn't real. I didn't like her from the beginning, which I guess is appropriate for something that's not real anyway.

I agree. I don't feel I have any more insight into Kate than I did before. Oh sure, we got a few tidbits but nothing we probably didn't already assume. Or, things that weren't much of an "ah HA!" Like Kate applying to Berklee - we already knew that she was into singing, so applying to that school isn't filling in much of a blank. Now, we don't know if she ever made it there or if she did, how long she lasted, but it's not much of a revelation. We already knew that Kate's relationship with her mother was very strained. So even though there were a couple of interesting moments from the past - Kate witnessing her parents' hug in the hospital parking lot, for one - I don't feel as if I know Kate any better. More to come, I hope.

I thought this was an OK episode. I can hand wave away the portrayal of the miscarriage because how it happened is not as important as the aftermath. As a matter of fact, I thought they might've even opened the episode with Kate in the ER, having already had whatever care she needed. But to me, it was all about the way this awful event affected everyone after the fact, and I thought they did a serviceable job showing that. I agree that Toby's "big and powerful man" speech was cringe-worthy. Jeez - that employee is not psychic, he has NO idea who Toby is or why Toby's so distraught, so threatening him is really pretty crappy. I get it, though - he was freaking out. As for Toby's hair, at one point, there was a shot of him from the back (I think when he was getting rid of Kate's little notepad) and I thought his bald spot looked like a yarmulke! I did a double take. I'm sure it will eventually be shown, but this episode did make me wonder what Kate did in the years after high school that led up to her being a waitress at age 28. I guess we'll find out in due course. All the salient points I would've brought up have already been discussed, but I will say that I laughed when Kate started wiping up the dog rather than the pee spot. I can recall a moment when our dog vomited and my son was more concerned that she not have any of it on her face than the fact that there was a pile of barf two inches away from him. So I found Kate's ministrations to the dog spot on - she loves that dog and his needs (real or imagined!) come first!

I don't know whose bones were in that suitcase and don't care. We've come this far without knowing and it's made no difference. Shit or get off the pot, it's dragged on far too long. Add me to the list of those who mentioned that they gave up on "Lost" for similar reasons. I think the DNA results showed that Tom and Liz were brother and sister. Just kidding...I think... The slo-mo scenes were horrible - seriously, it was just a lot of open mouths. I fast forwarded. At what point were dogs even mentioned this season? Everyone keeps mentioning that the dogs are MIA, but I don't even remember Tom or Liz even talking about a dog recently. I know there has been a dog or dogs seen since the show debuted but since Liz's pregnancy and all that's followed, when were the dogs mentioned or seen? I'm drawing a blank. Sorry to see Tom die, I actually sort of liked his character - not always, but sometimes. But the actor has other stuff going on, so more power to him.

I liked this episode. Add me to the long list of people who found Elias Pound extraordinarily compelling. The young man who played him turned in a fine bit of acting. I felt very invested in this child, for that's what he was, who bore the heavy weight of an adult's responsibilities under the worst conditions imaginable. His death was terribly sad and the scene where Claire stitched the canvas closed was heartbreaking. A short, brutal life punctuated by small moments of kindness - perhaps that's the best he could have hoped for after all. I don't like the opening theme music infused with the Caribbean beat, even though I understand why it's being done. It just doesn't work for me, but it'll change in due course. How will Claire's stash of 20th century penicillin survive its time in the water? Did she transport it in a sealed glass container? I wouldn't think she'd have brought something plastic back with her. In the books, I thought it wasn't until they were in the states that she first conjured up a batch of penicillin, but having not read the books in years, I'm probably not remembering that correctly. Maybe it's the anesthesia I'm thinking of. I find the young captain of the Porpoise extremely handsome - right now, he's been my go-to eye candy! /shallow/

In that last scene, when Bruce ordered Alfred to "clean up this mess," that was BRUTAL! That whole exchange was really great - Bruce is truly out of control right now, and Alfred is trying his best, but so far, it's not working. In the shallow end of the pool, I thought Alfred looked smoking hot in the hiking scene and that final scene. The guy is incredibly handsome. That was a very graphic and bloody episode, though! When Penguin drove the knife into that guest's head - wow.

She wasn't cooking anything - she merely said "How does xxx [I don't remember the exact word she said, but it probably was cheese] and Yodels sound? I haven't been shopping..." meaning, she was just letting Kevin know those were the two things she could rustle up to offer him to eat, as her food supply was very low. I love Yodels!!!!

I think I remember Rebecca saying to teen Kate, "Make that list!" or, "Let's see that list!" and in the context of Kevin working on his Notre Dame application, and Randall working on his Harvard application, I figured Rebecca was asking Kate to make a list of schools she'd want to apply to.

The computer guy who helps Hannah, and the British agent.

How come none of the Lyons asked Hakeem why he'd been meeting with Mrs. DuBois every Tuesday for an extended period of time? Why didn't Hakeem himself let the judge know that he was being forced to meet with her (am I remembering that correctly?)? Those videos were brutal, though. I felt really bad for Tiana. She deserves better. She was truly trying to help. No good deed goes unpunished. Loved Becky throughout this episode. At first, I was very dismayed that she began making out with her former beau, but in the end, she was in complete control of the situation. I've always felt she is the only rational person on the entire show! I can't wait until it's revealed that Andre was behind the bombing that almost killed his parents. I don't like him at all. However, I do feel pretty bad for him that his new doctor is a DuBois operative. That won't go well at all, of course. I'd like Jamal to get a haircut. And whenever it's finally revealed that Warren is a DuBois, that's going to be brutal! Loved Cookie's last court outfit but didn't love so much the prior look, with the beret and gloves. Too bad it wasn't possible to let the judge know that Anika's father did some rather inappropriate/illegal things, too.

Agreed, SunnyBeBe. While each person will react in his/her own way to a miscarriage, I'm hard pressed to think of anything we haven't seen before in other shows, movies, books, etc (or even experienced ourselves, sadly). We'll see - but my expectations are really low.

At this point, I am actively rooting for something bad to happen to the First Lady and First children. They need to be off the show ASAP. My family and I hooted with laughter when it was revealed that Leo's girlfriend was a plant - that was awesome!! And Leo is just NOW realizing that his life will never be normal? Seriously? No follow up on Emily and Seth's kiss. Which is alright, I guess. Why must everyone be paired off like Noah's Ark? I'm glad Moss didn't kill that woman and I hope he's back soon, I like him and I like the relationship he has with the President.

'Cause this is a soap opera. Whatever can be done to produce the most drama, they'll do it. Kate's miscarriage affects almost every character on the show, so there's a lot of material there.

I wonder if Kevin's family even knew he was being honored by the school. The student liaison Kelly hadn't talked to Kevin in a month, and perhaps that was the first time he'd even been contacted about the event. Seeing as he's been a mess for several weeks or more, Kevin might've not even mentioned it to anyone.

We live down the road from our town's high school and it has a fairly big and sophisticated sports complex, including a state of the art football field. Many times, the lights are on when the school is closed and there's seemingly no activity. No idea why...could be a security measure.

I didn't like almost anything about this episode, and watched more out of obligation than interest. And now we get two more episodes dealing with more terrible stuff - Kate's miscarriage and heaven knows what with Randall. I think I need a break from this show. I have no issue with shows portraying the very real tragedies and horrific challenges that we all face in the course of our lives, but sometimes I feel like, why do I need to see imaginary people suffering when there is so much of it happening in real life as well? The negativity was overwhelming, almost suffocating. There isn't even a small glimmer of hope anywhere for these characters. It's not that I need or want to watch a show that's all butterflies and rainbows, but this is going overboard in the tragedy department. There doesn't seem to be much reason to watch next week. Miscarriage is a devastating tragedy that affects everyone in its radius. I truly wonder if there is any unique viewpoint that this show can bring to such an awful situation, but even if there is, frankly, I'm not sure I'm interested in seeing it. Edited to add: I suppose that what will make this miscarriage unique will be how Kate's life to date frames her reaction to losing her baby. Every person who has a miscarriage has her own life and set of experiences that leads up to the event, as does her partner, all of which can and/or will influence how they handle things in the aftermath. Kate (like many people) has suffered great losses prior to this one - her brother and her father. So I suppose that could be the spin the show puts on her miscarriage - how this loss compounds her prior losses, and how she now won't have the chance to give this baby the parent/child relationship she wishes she might have had with Rebecca.