TiaLou

I watched this episode on Amazon ... just scanned through it again and I don't see any scene of an American woman in a carriage, or anything to do with Francatelli and a cookbook. What am I missing? Is it in another episode?

I think Harriet blames herself because her husband knew she was in love with Ernst, so he (the husband) deliberately chose to ride an unbroken horse which was risking his life ... basically he killed himself, and she feels it was because of her. Ernst could have married her if he wanted ... Leopold wanted to arrange a politically expedient marriage, which Harriet would not have provided, but at the end of the day Ernst could have told Uncle Leopold to sod off and could have done whatever he wanted to do. Count me in with the earlier poster who wondered why Victoria and Albert didn't even mention missing their children while they were lost on the moors. When they talk in the little bed about how wonderful it would be to just get away from it all, I thought ONE of them would say something like, "and if we just had the children with us." But no. Vicky, Bertie and Alice were forgotten. I don't think that couple would have had any clue who V&A were, not until the soldiers showed up in the morning. No photographs, no magazines or newspapers, etc. They might not have been literate. (Well, maybe he was.) What I wonder is, would it have been realistic for the two old people to both speak English? I sort of expected that Albert was going to knock on the door of this cottage and be faced with someone who only spoke Gaelic. When the husband spoke English, I thought, oh, well, for sure the wife won't speak English ... but quelle surprise pour moi. I admit I am not that well educated about languages in rural Scotland in the first half of the 19th century. Perhaps everyone knew English; I thought there was a chance that some folks, especially older ones, did not.

Just binge-watched this season. Two comments about this last episode: 1) Why was it suddenly a surprise to see Victoria's mother and Uncle Leopold at Christmas? Weren't they around all the time anyway? I didn't understand why Victoria was so shocked that her mother and uncle were at the palace for the holiday. Seems like they were just in a recent episode, and no mention had been made of them being sent away with no intention of reconnecting. 2) Where were Harriet's children? Doesn't the show say that she has two sons? They can't be much older than adolescents -- maybe young teenagers at the oldest. And their father has just died. Why aren't they with their mother for Christmas? Seems pretty brutal to keep them at boarding school during the holiday, or are they with their father's family and either Harriet was not invited or chose not to go? Why wouldn't she be with her children?

Has there ever been another runner up like Chelsea, who, when she was dumped, told Matt, "You're making a huge mistake," or something to that effect? I think Molly reacted sort of similarly to Jason Mesnick, though I'm not sure it was anti-Melissa but rather, "we're meant to be together so you're crazy to pick her." (Which, ehh, I guess he figured out soon enough.) Chelsea's reaction to Matt was more like, "Shayne is a snake and will eat you alive and boy you are going to REGRET this," and less about Chelsea-and-Matt's relationship. Any other finalist react that way? I can't remember, but I haven't watched them all. (I thought Raven was particularly classy when she was dumped.)

Pretty sure it was for the exposure. I think Vanessa's attempts to establish her acting/Hollywood career have been extraordinarily minimized. But: I do think Nick's preference for her was set early on and was (is?) sincere. (And maybe she likes him back, who knows.) It's been discussed on this board over this season that Nick might not have been a great choice to be The Bachelor as apparently he is deeply monogamous -- ie, he was never going to do a good job at having or faking romantic feelings for more than one woman at a time. I don't think he had sex with either Rachel or Raven in the fantasy suites; he had been confused and hurt that Andi had sex with him and then didn't choose him. He wasn't going to do that to either Rachel or Raven. Speaking of the fantasy suites, maybe the contestants are under some sort of death-threatening contract so they can't talk details, but don't you think that at least in SOME seasons (like this one), the Bachelor/ette tells his/her favorite that s/he is the one? I just can't believe that hasn't happened before.

I was spoiled as usual during this season, but even if I hadn't known for sure, I thought it was pretty obvious from the last two dates that Vanessa was it. From what we were shown, Nick was working very hard to comfort Vanessa, and just gave Raven some cliches. I didn't think they were any more tense than any other couple on the ATFR. Chris Harrison was super super super annoying with his repeated questions about how HARD this is, how TOUGH this has been, blah blah blah. He's the worst interviewer ever. Vanessa is just gorgeous but ... yeah ... there's something harsh about her. I thought it was telling that Rachel expressed her hope that Nick is happy, but she had nothing to say about Vanessa, which you'd think wouldn't be too hard to do. That was a good twist, to bring out some guys for Rachel. Not sure I'll bother watching.

I didn't watch Andi or Kaitlyn's seasons, and I've never watched BiP, so this is my first time watching Nick. What I like about him is he consistently calls the Bachelorettes "women" ... even when Chris Harrison says something about the "girls," Nick responds with, "Well, the women ..." and it makes me cheer. I also think he truly likes women, unlike some misogynists who have been in the same role over the years (first one I think of: Jake), and I think it just kills him to hurt them. One last thing; I'm the youngest of a large family (9 siblings) so I feel an automatic solidarity with another big family person, and of course I attribute all his best qualities to the fact that he has so many siblings. : )

This makes 100 percent sense to me. I mean, I'm not sure about the Vanessa crying part (I know she cried to the camera), but maybe, yes, she was clearly unhappy about how things were going so Nick just switched up the plan to keep her happy/not upset. And surely the other women figured that out, right? I hate volleyball a lot. And Jasmine was bizarre, pushing Corinne down the way she did, to say nothing of insisting to Nick that she'd like to choke him during sex. Surely people who are into that know how to signal their interest in a more subtle manner, right? It was noticeable that no one seemed anti-Corinne in this episode. Maybe with Taylor gone, the anti-Corinne feeling has lessened a bit? Nick's date with Danielle L was so sad -- he gave the editors lots of shots of him looking pained and uncomfortable. I didn't buy the chemistry they supposedly had during the one-on-one in his hometown ... I think he realized he wasn't interested in her back then, and just hadn't gotten around to getting rid of her until now.

I only watched the later part of Rachel and Nick's date, and was reminded, to my great regret, that people STILL believe in the crap about asking a father's PERMISSION to marry a GROWN ASS WOMAN. I don't give a SHIT that people think it's "respectful" or whatever, it is goddamned sexist and patronizing and insulting. I HATE IT. I was really hoping that Rachel would've responded to Nick, when he said he was so embarrassed about having asked two fathers in a row for PERMISSION to marry their GROWN ASS DAUGHTERS, with some version of, "Yeah, you should be embarrassed. It's stupid fucking tradition that should have died long ago. And frankly, if you say something like to my father, he will laugh in your face and remind you that it is my decision, nothing that he has to give permission for, and if you don't realize I have the autonomy to make my own decisions, then maybe you don't respect me enough to marry me." And then I turned the TV off. Frankly this show is pretty hard to take in the best of times, and nowadays it's just horrible.

I watched tonight's episode with my 20-year old niece. It was the first time she's seen the show, so I kept apologizing to her for dragging her down. She was not impressed. It probably didn't help that I kept saying, "That's scripted. And this, this exchange? Scripted. And this? Fake." Etc. We were both appalled that any pastor would endorse a last minute wedding plan. If I was taking this show seriously, I'd say that I think Ben and Jojo were closer; he WAS more "himself" with her (whatever that means). He seemed to have more substantial conversations with Jojo than with Lauren. Also, Jojo was right on target in being responsive to him, and I never saw that from Lauren. But maybe we just weren't shown that. As a straight lady, my vote is Jojo is prettier and hotter than Lauren. She was just beautiful on ATFR. And for as much I consider this entire franchise a trainwreck and terribly exploitative and demeaning to women, I think Jojo is a great choice for Bachelorette. Much better than weirdo Caila, who is SO OFF.

On the one hand, I think this thing is TOTALLY SCRIPTED; Jojo was showing some fantastic acting chops by her genuinely shocked expression when Ben told her he loves her. [Theory: Whole "I love you" exchange between them was producer-driven in order to shake up boring season. Jojo was in on the gig.] On the other hand, is she REALLY that good of an actor? I sort of think it was a real reaction, which makes it just sickening that he said that to her. She knows how this show works -- the lead cannot say "I love you," so if the Bachelor/ette *does* say it, that means whoever they're saying it to is the "winner." She thinks she's won ... And then there was Lauren, whose reaction to Ben's declaration of love was rather different than Jojo's reaction. Lauren showed some mild surprise, but she was much more like, "Yeahhhhh, I know."

It's probably been a few years since I've actually watched the overnight dates episode -- when did the cameras show up in the morning for breakfast in bed? I don't think I'm TOO much of a prude, but yeez louise, that's just sleazy. To show the shot of Lauren's dress on the floor! Gah. Who needs to see this?

Yeah, I don't think they're engaged any longer as of tonight.

No, but I think she's Persian/Iranian.

First off, it’s nice to not have an Evil Bitch in the final four. None of the last four women are horrible, or at least none of them have been edited that way, which is a breath of fresh air. I think the no shoulders-shirt (a la Amanda) is quite unfortunate. More importantly, the whole children-on-camera thing was close to child abuse, as far as I’m concerned. The youngest girl is still a BABY, and she was having NONE OF THIS. Those poor children, props of this gross reality TV show. Amanda should be ashamed of herself. (I type this as I kick myself for watching in the first place.) Caila is beautiful – that hair is amazing – but she strikes me as super, super fake. There’s definitely something off about her, although Ben/the producers keep pushing this storyline that she’s “real.” The whole Caila family visit was really odd. Wish I could put my finger on it more clearly. Building the house at the toy factory looked not fun. She gave it away when she told her mother that Ben has the characteristics that she wants in a husband – BZZZZZ! Wrong answer. She’s just checking off the boxes. Also, she had a voiceover – during the fake Officer and a Gentleman scene at the factory -- that said something like, “I can’t wait for my dream to come true,” and I said out loud, “Girlfriend, you’re TWENTY FOUR. Give it a rest.” But I guess that’s the script you recite when you’re auditioning to be the Bachelorette. Jojo’s hometown visit was batshit from the start! Wow. Ben to Jojo: “I’m nervous [about meeting your family.]” Jojo to Ben: “Don’t be nervous.” Ehh, Ben, go ahead and be nervous. The brothers – SO LOUD! WOW. SO MUCH NOISE. The brothers are – umm – a bit too kissy on their sister. Sorry. Weird. And man, they were super tough. I thought the younger one (also named Ben) was going to actually slit Ben’s throat. Ben said something like, “Everything was behind my back,” but seriously? I don’t know how much more blunt they could have been to his face. Why is Amanda bitching about being brought back to Los Angeles? Doesn’t she live in Orange County? It’s not like she had to take a plane to come back for the rose ceremony. “I’ve never introduced anyone to my kids.” I don’t get this. HOW MANY BOYFRIENDS HAS SHE HAD SINCE HER DIVORCE??? Poor weepy Ben.

Leah's "attack" on Lauren B was obviously producer-driven, but do we think Ben decided to drop her on his own? Or was he given a heads-up before her evening visit and was it suggested to him that whoever came to see him should be sent packing? The producers were done with Olivia and decided to give her the big humiliation send-off. Ben was done with her weeks ago and had been patiently waiting for the directive to dump her. It wasn't so much that he chose Emily, he just got rid of Olivia ... and he got rid of her in the most embarrassing way it can be done. (They must decide each season who gets to be dropped that way.) Back to Lauren B: We as the audience haven't been shown any footage that would sway us against her (unlike they did with, say, Courtney from Flapjack's season or Vienna from Jake's), so Leah's attack was super weird. I couldn't care less about Lauren B but I'd guess she actually is a pleasant person, AND she also probably has the ability to turn "on" due to her job as a flight attendant. Professionally, even if she doesn't feel like it on a given day, she has to fake being pleasant and kind to everyone, even the most insufferable traveler. Edited to add: Back to Olivia ... I don't have much sympathy for her but I think her biggest flaw was serious social awkwardness. She really didn't seem to know how to engage the other women, and her attempts to do so were off-putting. I wish we all lived in such a shiny, happy world like Emily's where the WORST THING EVER is to say that a very young mother -- who has left her children to participate in a reality TV show -- reminds you of a very young mother on a reality TV show.

Swimming with pigs. Greatest thing I've ever seen on this show. I will have to remember to tell people that intellectual topics are my jam.

Sorry to be that person, but every Bachelorette has been a previous contestant on the Bachelor; they've never had a "random" Bachelorette. (For those keeping score at home -- and who isn't? -- the last "random" Bachelor was Matt Grant, though the second version of Brad Womack, also a "random" Bachelor, aired after Matt's season.)

Chiming in to say I also interpreted JoJo's response in the "did he cheat on you" conversation to be that she had an affair with someone who was either married or otherwise unavailable (ie, NOT in an open/polyamorous relationship.)

A great Bachelor(ette) gives the impression of being relaxed, in control of the situation, and generally happy to be there. They tend to have broader vocabularies than middling or "bad" Bachelor(ettes) and appear more sincere and engaged in the (gag) "process." In comparison to recent Bachelors, Ben appears to be "great" because he gives the impression of being MUCH SMARTER than Farmer Chris, and more engaged and sincere than Juan Pablo. (He's also smarter than Juan Pablo.) (Ben's also smarter than Sean, as far as I'm concerned.) Some past Bachelor(ettes) have given the clear impression of being 1) over their heads, out of control of the situation and unable to respond well to crazy scenes/people; 2) seriously dumb as rocks; and/or 3) really unhappy to be there.

Heavy sigh – the women squealing over the big message from “Ben” (or, in reality, The Intern Tasked with Creating a Big Lighted Sign in Las Vegas) was just too much; hard to take so early in the show. How embarrassing for every single woman alive on the planet. Ladies, when it’s a romantic gesture from ONE man to a DOZEN women, IT’S NOT ROMANTIC. Stop shrieking. The table falling over when the helicopter arrived for Ben and JoJo’s date is one of the FUNNIEST things I’ve seen on this show. Laughed out loud. Another hilarious (bizarre) thing was watching the women FREAK OUT with joy about a trip to … Las Vegas? Seriously? Any one of them could go to Las Vegas for a girls’ weekend whenever, right? It’s not exactly Monte Carlo or Macao or whatever. And the poor twins. “Oh, yay, we get to … go home! Yay!” (I do not think the twins are pretty. At. All.) (Is it a case of maybe they’re prettier in real life?) [And I apologize for offending Las Vegas residents, but I hate Las Vegas with a tremendous passion. (Its very existence offends me – that desert is not meant to sustain life for that many people and businesses. What a huge waste of water and power and other resources … blah blah blah don’t get me started.)] The talent show: My worst nightmare. What a terrible thing to do to people. There’s no way most of those women came up with something without producer influence – the twins and Jubilee (and I don’t know who else) had easy choices, but the chicken suit/poetry person, among other things? They had some guidance there. So I don’t know whether they chose to not “help” Olivia, or whether she rebuffed the ideas they gave her. I’m sort of torn between thinking Olivia was rude, just mocking the whole thing, and then thinking, “yeah, this is bullshit. That’s what I would do, just act like a goofball.” The wedding chapel date … I can’t even … Do people who choose to get married at a wedding chapel in Vegas (and I do have a good friend who did that and they’re happily married after 15+ years) really want to be married by The Bachelor? And have it filmed for a cheesy TV show? Uggggghh. Did they have to get permission from every couple shown onscreen? And couldn’t he TUCK IN HIS SHIRT and wear a GODDAMN TIE? Jeezus. And how much money did they spend on that wedding dress that Becca wore for, what, a half an hour? Did they even say the name of the designer (which would have made sense, that it was just a product placement)? Did Becca expressly say that her decision to stay a virgin was a faith thing in the last season? I liked the sliver of the conversation that she and Ben had, one of glimpses of “real” talks that seem to not be shown. Glad they finally did something about the twins. Even though I like Ben a lot, the fact that he’s voluntarily put himself in this situation means that I have zero sympathy for him BUT but but but I really felt for him with the twins’ home visit. What an awkward thing to go through. (You know Emily walked back into the hotel with the other Bach’ettes and they were all like, “Heyyyy, youuuuu, you’re back, youuuuu … and your sister, the other one, she’s not here, but we’re so happy to see youuuuu …” and Emily has to be like, “I’m Emily.”) (With their mother they look like triplets.) Finally, I like Ben, but damn, can he just hold off on the kissing for five minutes? Any woman who hasn’t been kissed yet must be wondering what the hell is wrong with her. (How many has he not kissed? Three?)

This. I can't figure out if it's PTSD or what, but I think there's more going on with Jubilee than just being introverted or whatever. Watching her tell Ben that she's had this traumatic life -- without telling the details, which she doesn't have to tell in front of a camera -- made me angry at myself for falling for this show again, which totally abuses people's frailties. And now for my hypocritical snark: I think Amber has a pretty face but I'm surprised her hair is so ... unstyled or something. And she's terribly boring. For someone who's on her third round of this insanity, she should've figured things out by now. I was surprised none of the Bachelorettes on the group date had *any* experience playing soccer. I would've guessed that at least two or three of them had played at some point, even just in childhood. I like Ben. He's handling the wackiness pretty well.

I love Amos Lee, so I had simultaneous contradictory feelings when he appeared on screen: 1) "Yay! Amos Lee! I love Amos Lee!" and 2) "Ugh, why, WHY, Amos, are you on this show? How much money do you need?" Props to Lauren B for the clever "I could leave now and be happy" line. No doubt she was sincere, but it was a great tactic in any case. Made Ben sweat with fear that she might leave. No way Busted Cameron Diaz (TM Ms Blue Jay) is only 23 years old. She could easily be 33.

I did not watch Kaitlyn's season so all I knew about Ben was the Peter Brady resemblance and the fact that everyone predicted he would be boring. Of course his personality is not what's important -- it's all about whatever crazy the laydeez bring -- but my cold, cynical heart is slightly softened toward him. He has less of a deer-in-headlights look than Chris Soules, and he seems slightly smarter than Sean Whatshisname (though that's not saying much.) It makes sense to me that crazies like Lace want to be on TV because, hello, delusion is a strong factor in bad decisions, but some women seem normal and pleasant and I can't figure out WHY they chose to be on this show. Any woman who has two children under four years of age ... I just can't even. And her voice. My God. Please let her go. The barrette-making WAS a sweet gesture designed by some Bachelor production intern, though Ben's insistence that he wants to know more about them and "involve" them is a wee bit creepy and wrong. They shouldn't be a part of this whole sordid thing. The twins are not pretty and are rather dim. Oh, oh, oh, and the geography quiz! I am slightly relieved that only one team was REALLY off. It is pretty hard to put a random state (and if you don't live in or next to Indiana it is a random state) exactly where it's supposed to be. But Becca and who? JoJo? were just extraordinarily wrong. Ugh.

Britt's announcement of her break-up is about 269 words, which is at least 225 words too long.