TiaLou

There ya go. Nothing like pheromones to control a situation -- and I am being dead serious here, having spent 3.5 years in a terrible relationship because, as God as my witness, of his smell. It was a revelation to me, how much his scent pulled me in and kept me there long after I should've walked. That was some good sex. Everything else was lousy, but eh, win some, lose some.

It was her mother, her stepfather and her father (and maybe a stepmother? Can't recall). My recollection is that they get along really well. I remember thinking that her family was very loving and supportive of her, more expressive of that than the other families. But maybe I'm totally remembering wrong. It's happened before.

I haven't watched any of this season until last night, when I managed about 15 minutes before turning off the TV. My first impression of Kaitlyn during Chris's season was negative -- I really didn't like the raunchy act on the first evening. But then I came around to thinking that she was kind, relaxed, non-drama, and I thought she could pull off her own season pretty well. But all the comments from y'all on this board have convinced me otherwise, and my brief foray into the pit last night was the nail in the coffin. Poor Shawn is a meathead but dude deserved a little more from Kaitlyn -- I thought she was pretty cold to him. I wonder if all this sort of off-camera stuff goes on *every* season, they just never show it to the viewers. It would make sense that there's a lot more visiting than we usually see, since they must get to know each other better than just spending time during the dates that are recorded. I guess TPTB figured they'd rip the curtain down for this season. And they must HATE Kaitlyn. She is being portrayed in a terrible light.

Oh, I absolutely believe TPTB did all of this just to keep things "interesting." The franchise is old and tired, and whatever they can do to generate pages of debate is all worth it. I assume the producers don't benefit directly/literally from PreviouslyTV boards, but it's still in the show's best interest that lots of folks on this site alone have been hashing out this tidbit for a week now.

Not a spoiler any longer ... But I think TPTB had chosen Britt (and perhaps had already offered it to her) and were then surprised by the positive reaction to Kaitlyn, combined with an unexpected anti-Britt movement.

Chris Harrison is a lying liar who lies.

When they were in Bali, he said [paraphrased], "I could be sending Becca home ... I could be sending Kaitlyn home ... It could even be Whitney." This jumped out at me as proof that Whitney has been the F1 for a long time. I think Chris enjoys Becca's company but I do not see strong romantic chemistry between them. I think the previews when his father says something like, "well he wants Becca but he'll have to take Whitney" (WHAT A TERRIBLE THING TO SAY) was completely scripted and forced in order to provide *some* dramatic tension in a season when the F1 was probably decided weeks ago.

To me, the coin toss scenario confirms that no one was going to bump Whitney out of the F1 spot. He couldn't decide who would be F2 -- she was just going to be a placeholder for the sake of the show and its need for a tense storyline. (I do not buy the promos for the final episode, that it was such a agonizing decision between Whitney and Becca -- that's all the reality TV world fakety-ness.) (I sort of don't believe the coin toss story either.) The tiny part of my heart that cares about Chris and Whitney's relationship leads me to hope -- as I quixotically do every season -- that Whitney totally understands that producers and editors crafted a drama to drive viewership, and that Chris' anxiety over who to choose was a forced fiction, and she doesn't hold it against him. The larger part of my heart doesn't give a crap if these famewhores end up staying together or not.

Add my name to the list of folks who noticed that last night was the first time we heard Becca say that she is "waiting for marriage." It was one of those spit-take moments for me -- "What the hell did she just say? Why didn't she say that before?" It's such a basic rationalization for virginhood, I have no idea why it was never expressed earlier. Like a smart person mentioned above [JudyObscure], this means we wasted a lot of pixels theorizing about *why* she's still a virgin -- lesbian? asexual? -- and now it turns out it was like the simplest thing ever. (Not that it's simple to wait for marriage, I just mean it's the most easily comprehensible, in its way.) (NOT GONNA JUDGE.) And another really smart person [Zahdii] noted that a VIRGIN WHO IS WAITING FOR MARRIAGE USUALLY DOESN'T BOTHER GOING ON A MIKE FLEISS BIKINI-N-HOTTUB STD REALITY SHOW. And another thing: The editing monkeys gave us the typical "draw the curtains, turn off the lights, send the camera crew home" clip for the Becca & Chris FS date. We heard -- or was it just me? -- Becca giving some voice-over like, "oh it was such a relief to share this with Chris, and now we can move forward, and it's all awesome, and he's great," as the curtains fall and we can see them embrace in the room. Commercial. THEN, at the rose ceremony, he pulls her aside and they CLEARLY agree that they had a very tense and unromantic evening, with lots of unanswered questions and anxiety. WTH? Did anyone else think this? It seemed jarring to me.

I think Kaitlyn is fabulous, but it's so sad she had to use lines like "this is all for Chris" or whatever. She is WAY too clever and funny for him. I think she'd be a great Bachelorette, but on the other hand, I'd hate to wish that burden on anyone. Whitney got the best date, so his preference for her is obvious ... And clearly she's ready to ditch her career and home and pump out his babies, so congrats (or something) Whitney, I'm sure you "win." It concerns me that Chris gets so close to hyperventilating when things get tough. Not a great character trait. Have they ever had the women/bachelor dress in regional costume at the rose ceremony? I thought they looked good.

Sharleen was quoting Farmer Chris, not Harrison.

Well, there was Bachelorette Jillian several seasons ago, a Canadian. [And, ahem, to be a PITA, there are millions of people who live in the American continents, north and south, who consider themselves Americans.] eta: CalamityBoPeep beat me to it.

I'm with JudyObscure from above, who theorizes that her Playboy/stripping video work betrays Jade's low self esteem. ... This sounds really judgy -- have at me -- but yeah, my opinion is that women who do that sort of work feel that is all they have to offer, or it's the best they have to offer. It's related to what Julia Roberts says in "Pretty Woman": [paraphrased] No little girl grows up dreaming of becoming a prostitute. I know, posing nekkid isn't exactly being a prostitute, but seriously, are there emotionally healthy little girls who have grown up in loving homes where appropriate boundaries were established, where she felt loved and affirmed and supported, who looks at porn magazines and says, "gee, that looks great, I'll do that"?

How did Becca end up on this show, anyway? It seems like an odd move for someone who doesn't seem interested in men/dating (at least according to her very own family) and who apparently doesn't like to be touched.

I like Kaitlyn a lot -- my opinion of her has improved dramatically since the first night, when I was pretty put off by her potty mouth. But she seems to be fairly level-headed and normal, and not a shit-stirrer, at least not what we've seen. I wouldn't mind her being the Bachelorette because I do think she can be funny and quick witted, and maybe there are enough guys out there who find her attractive and would want to meet her. On the other hand, it might be a season of OTT excruciatingly embarrassing scenarios that she thinks are screamingly funny. But, but, but -- and I sort of hate typing this because it gives this pile of doodoo more credit than it deserves -- I do think these seasons "work best" when the lead is truly sincere about his or her effort to find a spouse, and as much as I think Kaitlyn would be fun to watch because she's not a bitch and she's not high maintenance, I'm not convinced girlfriend actually wants to find a husband, not right now. (And I can say that seeing as we're all like best friends and stuff, despite having never met and being more than 10+ years apart in age.)

RE: Kaitlyn saying that her family is unconventional ...I think she considers her family unconventional because her divorced parents and their current spouses all get along so well and spend time together. I meant to include this earlier but Whitney's conversation with her sister was really awkward, not only the insistence on the blessing part; Whitney interrupted her constantly. And I agree with a poster upthread who said that when Whitney is angry, she sure is ugly angry. (Armchair psychologist: Whitney is a serious, serious control freak. This works very well in her chosen profession, where accuracy and precision are necessary. This particular trait often doesn't work so well in romantic relationships, unless it's very clear that the partner really wants to be controlled.)

Right! I was thinking that if I was one of these women, I'd be so ticked off so far to be stuck with these lousy destinations. I actually reacted out loud: "Thank GOD, they're finally going SOMEwhere!"

OK, the dog humping the toy at the end was the greatest piece of film on this show ever. Everyone has their own list of must-haves, but the insistence that her sister give Chris her blessing made Whitney seem actually whacked out to me. I don't get that need in the first place -- if my father (or mother) was still alive and if I was in a relationship heading toward marriage, I would be appalled if the guy asked for a blessing, and frankly, my now dearly departed (and much missed) father would have responded to a request for a blessing with, "Hey, ask her, it's her decision, not mine." (Of course I'd want my family to like my romantic partner, but I'm a grown ass lady who can make my own decisions.)

As Marge Gunderson would say, "I'm not sure I agree with you a hundred percent on your police work, there, Lou." I'd say, despite it being a fairly high bar, Kelsey has exceeded the delusions and self-centeredness of every previous Bachelor contestant.

That happened during one of the Bachelorette seasons. Emily, maybe? I can't remember. It was sort of fantastically painful: She's at dinner with two guys, tells one of them, "I'm going to say goodbye to you, let me walk you out," she leaves with him and the guy left at the table is like, "whew, awesome!" and then she comes back and says, "yeah, I'm ditching you too. See ya." Damn, who was that? Was it really Emily? Getting old is a drag. [Edited to add: Actually I'm pleased that I'm not hanging on to such detritus in my memory bank.]

Funny to realize how much they've adapted to the changing times, since Trista, the very first Bachelorette, was #2. (And she initiated the core tenet of this entire franchise: that it's better to "lose" than to "win," because who here knows whatever happened to Amanda? Yoo hoo, Amanda, remember her? ... Exactly.)

That would be the smartest thing he's done so far.

Can't take the credit for this -- I think it was on Twitter -- but someone speculated that Chris's walk of angst had more to do with feeling guilty about his "nap" with Britt rather than feeling existential following Kelsey's big reveal.

Wellllll, it sure won't be Kelsey. Back to actual spoilers: To review, we know the final four are Whitney, Becca, Kaitlyn and Jade, and Britt is #6, right? Who's #5? (Like it matters ... But I'm curious, and if it was explained in an earlier post I missed it, sorry.)

Serious question: How is Farmer Chris's brain so full of hammers that he can't figure out that he needed to ixnay the Jordan return immediately? If they're all so into the precious "time together," why would he waste it with a debate over Jordan? This is a dumb show but that was egregiously stupid. AND, and! What's up with the unscheduled time so that Psycho Kelsey could go work her bizarre magic on him? You'd think with such little time, they'd be scheduled to the teeth, but looks like there's lots more hanging out than I expected. Lint brains: Megan, Mackenzie, Kardashley Not so awful: Whitney, Becca, Kaitlyn (who is pretty damn funny; she's too smart for Farmer Chris) Could be OK If she wasn't so miserable: Carly Fake but it doesn't bother me: Britt Spoiled so I'll keep my mouth shut: Jade Psychotic: Kelsey Who's left? Samantha? No opinion on her whatsoever. Has she even said anything?