Conan Troutman

So the House of Black and White is the most gray thing we got. How very Alanis Morisette.

I think that's supposed to be the God of Death. The Red God is the LoL if I'm correct.

See my edit above - I can see why Sam didn't know, but Stannis was an adult man by the time of Robert's Rebellion and he certainly knew about Aemon's backstory then. Him being too old, that I could accept. But it would've been nice if the show bothered to explain, even if only in a short sentence. But I doubt it's about libido. If Aemon is way too old, then Shireen is way too young.

But what would leaving out Aemon accomplish? I can see why the Mad King would be portrayed even worse than he acutally was or some other Baratheon propaganda about the rule of previous Targaryens. But writing out Aemon is pretty pointless. I can see why Robert wouldn't do that. Also Aemon was no threat, as he has given up all claims by joining the NW. But Stannis doesn't have to fear any retaliation from the NW, they're not in a position to do much about anything after he just saved them from the Wildlings. They could protest and make angry faces, but that's about it. They'd be needing a new master soon anyway, as they do now without Stannis' interference. He should even get Jon to agree, telling him that this wouldn't be necessary if he didn't spare Mance. ETA: I just can't accept that Stannis doesn't know about Aemon. It's not realistic to keep this a secret, especially since Stannis had to know about Aemon being alive and at the Wall at the time of Robert's Rebellion. It's not that he's a 15 year old boy who was fed some BS stories and lives in a vacuum.

What path would Ned Stark chose?

How do you know that? Maybe he's like LF and hedging his bets. Maybe he doesn't do jack shit and that's simply the misguided visions of the priestesses? I'm not even sure Mel really has good connections to the LoL, she could be just a witch who's mistaking the visions of some sort of magic for those of a god. The only one who seems to be somewhat confirmed is Thoros, who brought Berric back multiple times, which apparently even witchcraft can't do. You do have a point that Stannis could also be crushed by the Boltons, sacrifing Shireen or not. That's perfectly logical in-universe, but it's also a terribly depressing story to tell. I don't think the show can get away with something like that after the last dark episodes. Most people would still be watching after that, but any emotional attachment will be completely gone and everyone will be rooting for the WW to just kill everybody already. I hope you're wrong, because that would make for some lazy writing. I don't see any good explanation how that couldn't be a huge story still well known today. Maybe Sam just didn't know the name of that particular Targaryen, assumed he was long dead and simply didn't connect the old dude to the guy from that story at first? But someone like Stannis has to know his history a bit better than some random, young small noble who was just taught to read.

That would make sense. I think I'm going with that one. That would also explain why Mance wasn't good enough despite being King beyond the Wall, at least Mel never really considered him as suitable as Shireen as far as I remember. But why would Stannis care about that? He saved their asses and could simply demand that they give up Aemon. I'm not sure if he even would need to accompany them. Couldn't they just burn him right there? Or do they need a certain proximity? If so, the Lord of Light needs to get his shit together. I thought it was common knowledge pretty much everywhere. I mean, giving up the Iron Throne to go to the fucking Wall would be like the biggest news ever, not only in Westeros. The reveal he was a Targaryen was more for the audience. Another reason why I think Mel will ditch Stannis and end up in Camp Dany. That's what I think/hope the whole sacrificing Shireen plot will turn out to be: Stannis refusing will make Mel part ways with him.

I'm pretty sure it will just be a regular season finale. Word has been Yahoo seriously considers a seventh season - even if that was just marketing speech, there's always the movie to wrap things up. We also still got the save Greendale arc going on and Frankie and Elroy are a breath of fresh air, so I can see another season working at least as well as the last two. That's how I interpreted that scene. I'm not even sure if there were any other students, it was mostly family. A pretty big family, considering it was only one after all... Only somewhat erroneous assumptions. The chance of genetic defects in first cousin marriages is double than that of totally unrelated people: Six instead of three percent, and while that's not ideal, it's not really all that disastrous. The real problem here is that it piles up rather quickly if a family's doing it over multiple generations and not getting enough outside blood in there regularly (see Charles II of Spain). So declaring first cousin marriages illegal can help, but isn't really all that necessary - the social taboo and potentially the Westermarck effect are doing a pretty effective job already and the occasional exception is no big deal, at least in western cultures.

Quick question: Why didn't Melissandre simply take Aemon with them? He has king's blood and Stannis probably wouldn't object. Did they ever address that before?

That was exactly the combination of genius and insanity that this show has been lacking for a while. I really had no clue where they were going with this - some HIMYM riff (never watched that final season, but I guess it went down something like that?) or some parody on reality shows was my first thought. But that was so much better. Chang and Garrett totally nailed it and even Jeff didn't totally ruin everything, much to my surprise. Only that tag felt kinda weird. As every Crusader Kings II player can tell you: Incest is great? Duh doy!

What other Lords? The only ones left to care are the Tyrells... Masterful job by Cersei, you have to admit it. It was a really remarkable effort in meticulous, well planned self destruction. Not even her biggest enemy could've possibly done a better job. Let's see how many Tyrells she can drag down the hole with her.

I actually liked the prison scene, Tyene's boobies aside. Her interaction with Bronn was just so much better than Obarra's weird, uncalled for monologue a couple of episodes ago and really did establish the character to some degree. I also liked that she gave Bronn the antidote - assuming she wasn't lying. Clearly, killing him wouldn't really further their agenda one bit right now, so I guess that's supposed to tell us that there's still some rationality in play. I also didn't get the impression that the other two were in it, so maybe that'll lead to something. The best part of it, of course, is that Bronn might actually survive it, which I didn't think was possible when Jamie recruited him for that ill-fated mission, much less after he got that nasty cut. Other thoughts: - Another nice trolling job from the synopsis guy. "Brienne waits for a sign." No shit. - The best scene of the evening award hands down goes to Olenna and the High Sparrow. Great stuff, GoT at it's finest! Good to hear him talking about the punishment, which seems to be backing up my intitial thought that while Margaery will face some consequences, it's probably not going to be death penalty. - Nice of Ghost to rescue Sam & Gilly, but why the hell is (s)he not with Jon? Bad things tend to happen when you leave your direwolf, stupid. - RIP Maester Aemon. His record of oldest man in Westeros will probably stand for a long, long time. Nice to finally see someone die of old age, a certain friend of Sansa's sadly won't get that luxury. Ramsey's death really needs to special, a simple Joffrey-style poisoning's not going to cut it, period. Speaking of: Sam's was pretty effective when getting in on the action before - do I see a plot point coming? Too bad they already named the first one Sam jr... - Stannis not willing to sacrifice Shireen will probably lead to some bad blood between him and Mel. It's been hinted at for a while, I can't see another outcome. Thank the seven gods of course, because that's the one crime I won't let the show get away with. Of course that's not good news for Stannis himself, but I think he might ultimately be better off without that devious witch - if he survives that war with the Boltons, that is. ETA: - Re: Cersei: "A day will come when you think you're safe and happy, and your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth." (Tyrion 2:08)

I didn't even know he was his squire, I just thought he was some male whore who got promoted when LF left town. Yeah, that makes no sense at all. Did they combine two characters from the books here?

Could you explain how the prophecy makes her think Tyrion killed Joffrey without being too spoilery? I like that, but I have no idea how Sansa could possibly wind up being Queen. And I sure as hell don't want a King Ramsey. I don't think the FM knows about Qyburn's little experiments, so they probably wouldn't object. I guess Loras fighting Frankenmountain is the most logical outcome from a meta perspective - there really wouldn't be a point in letting the Mountain somehow survive unless he had some purpose and since Cersei's fall from power is imminent, Checkov's Frankenmountain has to be fired soon. Also: Didn't the Mountain almost kill Loras early in season 1, after Loras "cheated" by making the Mountains horse horny, but Loras was saved by the Hound's intervention? If so, I'm all for a rematch. And if Loras were to win or at least lose, but doing a better job than Oberyn in wounding him fatally, the Hound would still be indirectly responsible for his brother's death. Of course Lancel would be a good alternative. I'm wondering if the witch "simply" was being able to look in Cersei's future as if it was the past - which would mean that Cersei has already made all those decisions from the witch's POV, so the free will vs determination "problem" doesn't exist, which would make this more of a Norse type one - or since she needed the blood, it was some kind of blood magic. The kind that killed Dany's unborn son and Cersei's somehow cursed. Either way, she's completely screwed now. I guess Margaery will survive. The FM is dangerous, but I don't think the penalty for lying is necessarily death. The High Septon was made walking around in the street naked, which would seem like both an appropriate punishment in-universe and a nice opportunity for the show to fulfill the boobie quota. Loras however, I don't think he makes it, since as you said, the Tyrells are more than overdue to take a hit. I think they're out already, judging by Olenna's look to Cersei at the end of the trial scene. Even if Margaery and Loras both get out of this unscathed, Olenna won't have any more of Cersei's shenanigans. The can't simply annul the marriage right now, but once Tommen is officially exposed as a bastard and abomination of incest, that should be reason enough. Either that, or Margaery finally gets her "widowed thrice" achievement unlocked.

Oh, I agree. I didn't like it at all that Theon was there. He should have enough reason to hate Ramsey already. So does the audience. If If they have to include such a scene in the first place, it should've served to tell Sansa that no, you cannot "make him yours", as Littlefinger suggested. Maybe light the candle now?

If you're already one of the nerds, might as well aspire to be the queen of them. Joffrey: "I'm Joffrey of the House Baratheon...." Jaquen: *whip* Jamie: "Hey, don't hit my nephew!" Jaquen: *whip* Joffrey: "Jamie, you can't let that happen" Jamie:"I could care less about what other people think of me." Stannis: "I couldn't care less about what other people think of me." Jaquen: *whip*

I think you're spot on. It sounds strange, but maybe the grand implications of that scene weren't about Sansa at all - she probably knew there was a good chance this wasn't going to be a honeymoon she'd tell her grandchildren about. But that may have been set up to be the final straw that makes Reek snap back to being Theon again, everything else be damned. And it's about time.

I thought he was just trying to be technically correct (the best kind of correct). Sansa and Ramsey listed their official titles, so did Theon. Thankfully Dany didn't join in, or the episode would still be going on.

I'd love that - he is a total jokester after all, according to Kevin. Jake/Amy and Boyle/Rosa were both great, for totally different reasons. Not a surprise though, I have a ton of faith in how Goor & Schur handle relationships and I haven't been disappointed so far. New captain? Some said Nick Offerman, and I'd be totally on board with that. Who's your season MVP? Holt is an obvious choice once again, but I'm gonna go with Terry. He's just been killing it throughout the season and this episode was another great example.

But the Lancel/Cersei incest or sexual relationships between cousins in general is really small potatoes. Heck, it's not even all that uncommon in real life right now and used to be fair game for most of human history. The potential problem here is more adultery on Cersei's part. Or the kingslaying part of it.

I'm pretty sure that's not his plan at all. He just told Cersei what she needed to hear. I'm not even sure he's really aiming for the Warden of the North title, at least not if it's handed to him by a Lannister. He wants the loyalty of the North, through Sansa, and that's a thing Cersei can't offer him. He just wants her off his back for now. The one part that may be true is that he's planning to defeat whoever wins the war between the Boltons and Stannis. I'm pretty sure he wants a weak Cersei on the Throne rather than a strong Stannis - you can't get much more chaos than Cersei's happily providing.

I always thought the other girl was the one from the dog hunt in early season 4. But I'm not really trying to keep track of Ramsey's cruelties or I'd be running out of paper soon... Another face in the storage room, I'd think. Seems like Margaery's ambition to be The Queen is finally coming back to bite her. Same with Olenna's plot to kill Joffrey. As much as a little piece of shit Joffrey was, there's no way he would've let the Sparrows take his wife. Even if he didn't care for her much, he'd still view it as an insult to himself. Now they're dependent on clueless little Tommen to get their asses out of jail, which is simply not going to happen. Be careful what you wish for... But kudos to Cersei - at least so far. Her plan of destroying House Tyrell seems to work surprisingly well. I wonder what her next step is. She knows Olenna has to be pissed beyond reason and wouldn't hesitate one bit to send the Tyrell armies after Cersei, so there might be a plan in place to deal with her, too. As much as I hope Olenna's goin to take her out and casually mention "oh btw, I killed your son", I'm afraid that's not going to happen. And maybe that's good, because Cersei deserves a fate far worse than death, or at least far worse than death by the hand of Olenna. Great scene with her and LF, too. Loved how he played her like a fiddle, she's got no idea what he's up to. And neither do we, really - the only thing I wouldn't question is that he'd like to rule over the Seven Kingdoms with Sansa as his Queen. But what alliances he plans to make and betray on his way is really up in the air. Not much love for the Arya SL here. I liked the part, sure, there wasn't much happening, but I'll take that over the last 20 minutes any day. My favorite part was the story she told the little girl. Arya may not have Tyrion's mind when it comes figuring out what's going on, but at least she's learning fast. Also loved her smiled when her, um, co-worker told her that story about how she poisoned her step mom. Only really disappointing thing was Dorne. The Sand Snakes are supposed to be awesome I guess, but they're really just boring. Bronn said all there is to say about them in one line. Hopefully he didn't get poisoned, I was positively surprised he made it out there alive. He said he wanted a boring death, but I didn't think he was being meta. The Boltons astonishingly continue to hold their spot in my shit list above Cersei with a comfortable margin, despite her best efforts. Respect to that, I guess?

Which I find kind of sad. Why aren't heroes allowed to be pragmatic and rational, at least once in a while? I get that they need to be closer to the bad guy for dramatic, storytelling purposes, but it's so cliché. No, they always have to act for emotional reasons and/or get themselves in danger. Would've been a nice change of pace if the writers had Liv simply shoot him. I hope the main reason why she wasn't allowed to do so was that they needed Blaine alive, possibly to help her unravel the whole utopium / Max Rager mystery, and this decision pays off in the end. I didn't know ASH was in that. I might have to check that show out then. I give Major a pass for not coming up with that idea, especially since he kind of saw the bullet holes and him dropping "dead". But that should've been Clive's first reaction: "Are you sure the guy didn't wear a bullet proof vest?" Ha! He did find a shell casing, so Major had to have fired shots. He really does seem to suffer from Lestrade syndrome...

How is that thread title not "Sad Sack Stan"?

Interesting. Have you any idea which Stark would join which team? My first reaction would be: - Sansa: Probably Stannis, if Littlefingers scenario comes to fruition. But she does seems to like the Tyrells, too, so that's an alternative. - Arya: Pretty much open. The two factions she's most likely to meet are the Tyrells (Mace is on his way to Braavos, along with Arya's next murder victim, so we could see an interaction between them soon enough) and Dany, who might start her Westeros invasion project from there, but I don't know if Arya will stay there long enough for them to meet. But she might also be drawn to the Martells, since she probably would get along greatly with the Sand Snakes and I see her liking the Martell family values in general. - Bran: I wouldn't be surprised if he'd eventually manage to somehow warg a dragon (warg into a dragon? Where's Stannis for the grammar lessons when you need him?), so that most likely would put him into camp Dany. If she has no control over Drogon, maybe Bran will? - Rickon: He's such a non-character at this point, so no spec. Next one... - Jon: Has to be either Stannis or Dany, for obvious reasons. So if we ignore Rickon, at this point only the combination of Sansa -> Tyrell, Arya -> Martell, Bran -> Dany and Jon -> Stannis would really add up. But I think Sansa -> Stannis, Arya -> Tyrell and Bran -> Dany might make more sense for the individual characters. Since I don't see Jon joining the Martells, Rickon would have to do that and Jon would either also team up with Dany or maybe join a fifth faction (yes, I still want him to end up with the WW somehow).