Conan Troutman

That's what I'm thinking. Sure, there are trees, at least near the wall. But maybe not enough and I'd be surprised if they have any knowledge how to built them (or the tools). Or that they exist at all. Ygritte mistook a freaking windmill for a castle, so they're not exactly educated. Maybe Mance knew, but he could've just thought it'd be easier to just use brute force. But even if it weren't plausible, we really shouldn't overthink it. Especially not in a genre like fantasy or sci-fi. There'll always be giant plot holes or at least unexplained stuff you just have to accept, so I'm going to do just that.

Only they're not exactly "Free" Folk any longer. They're totally dependend on the good will of Stannis. He can either kill them right now or leave them to the White Walkers (or both). We'll see how long "we do not kneel" will last. Especially if kneeling also essentially means Westerosi citizenship. Now I'm not saying that situation will be solved in five minutes in the pilot, but at some point, at the latest when they see the White Walkers approaching, self preservation should win over pride. At least for most of the tribes, maybe the Thenns will choose some other fate, but no one really wants them in Westeros, anyway.

Yes, Tywin reminds me of him. Like WW, doing it for the family (legacy/name) seems to be more an excuse than anything else. Of course he wanted to secure the future of his family (and his own legacy), but not at the cost of making the slightest concession to any family member. Both were power hungry and bitter, and their utter disregard of the personal wishes of family members eventually completely ruined their relationship with them.

I was referring to the Wildlings. I expect Stannis will offer Mance and the Wildlings to join him and I can't see why they wouldn't, the alternative being killed. Stannis doesn't really need them to take KL, but he surely could use them to beat the remaining Lannister allies plus the Greyjoys and secure the rest of the Seven Kingdoms. I always thought if Stannis were to arrive at the Wall, his army and the NW would fight and kill the Wildlings, but this outcome is so much better for everyone involved and wouldn't have been possible without Melisandre convincing him to go north.

Good thought. She'll probably be pretty pissed at him when she finds out Tyrion escaped and murdered Tywin. Nice spec, but I doubt it. Yes, he kinda turned on him, but that doesn't make him exactly trustworthy. Plus, he knows jack about politics, so his only use would be as a puppet. But if Cersei wants a puppet, she'd choose a more reliable one. So as puppets, my candidate is Lancel. He's loyal to her, easy to control because he's pretty dumb and she'd have some Lannister for sexy time if she breaks up with Jamie. She detests Pycelle, but at least he'd be easy to control and loyal, so that's an alternative. If she wants someone more astute in politics, she could turn to one of the new allies, namely Walder Frey and Roose Bolton. Bolton would be an ideal Hand for her situation, but he has a war to fight. If she promised him some military help however, he might leave the war to Ramsay and go to KL. Frey doesn't seem to be too busy right now, and the position would bring him a lot of prestige. So those are my other choices. I agree that she'll try to break up the alliance with the Tyrells. If so, she'll need a new bride for Tommen. Bolton doesn't have a daughter, but Frey has them in abundance. If Tommen's a really lucky boy, he'll get the pretty one (I doubt the marriage with Edmure was consumed). So my spitball would be Frey as Hand and Roslyn (?) as new queen. Of course, Tommen might take matters in his own hands and reign Cersei in before she does something stupid, if only because he has the hots for Maerg (who could blame him?).

Which would still put her ahead on every other decision maker or advisor in Westeros. I didn't say she's a good influence after all, but for all the dubios things she does, she did at least manage to kill Renly and getting Stannis a huge army, assuming the Wildlings join him. So that's something Stannis has to value very highly. Not to mention that she saved at least a lot of lives in the North (without Stannis, the Wildlings would be doing who knows what once they're past the Wall, but we've seen what the small group of Wildlings did to that village and Molestown) and possibly the whole of Westeros.

Yes, I was looking at it from his perspective. Because he's one of my favorite characters, so of course I'm interested in his motives and intentions. Shae on the other hand, I couldn't care less (even more since the trial). Of course it's understandable she grabbed the knife. And yes, he was the intruder and didn't move away, so objectively speaking, he's probably guilty of at least voluntary manslaughter. But let's not project our own sense of justice and morality in the world of GoT - I'm totally fine with murder in this universe if it's justified in the sense that the victim deserved it. Because otherwise pretty much every character would be guilty of something. I don't even blame Cersei for assisting in/planning Roberts little hunting accident, because he did treat her like shit. In the same way, Shae deliberately screwed Tyrion over at the trial and then "betrayed" him with his father. Albeit this came after a tragic misunderstanding (when Tyrion insulted her to get her to leave), from his point of view I think it was understandable. Even if it wasn't even out of self preservation, but out of pure rage.

The problem with Stannis as "king material" is Melisandre. As long as she's influencing him and having him burn everyone who won't switch to their god, a King Stannis would probably end in a horrible mass burning. So Melisandre has to go (or at least Stannis has to lose the unquestioned trust he has in her, she's still occasionally useful, like with the smoke baby and the advise to go to the Wall). It sounds weird, but I'm kinda hoping she'll try to do something terrible to/with Shireen, which seems is like the only thing that could possibly open his eyes. Stannis without her (influence) would indeed make for good king. He's severely lacking in the charisma department and I also think he lacks a sense of pragmatism (the Tyrells, at least the female ones, have both, which is why I'd prefer them if I had a choice). But with him in charge everybody would know what to expect, what the rules are, what happens if you break them and as long as you don't, you're fine. Plus, as you said, he's willing to listen to advice. So he should make for a fine king, possibly the best Westeros has ever had.

Yeah, Syrio is officially dead (and I never really had a doubt, but the Hound confirmed it). As for Jaqen: If B&W really wanted to bring him back in his initial incarnation, I guess they could find a way to explain why he did go back to it. Maybe as simple as having Arya ask for a familiar face. But as much as I liked original Jaqen, there's no reason to believe they couldn't find a new actor who could do a comparable job. It's the only instance on the show where no recast would be odd. Agree on not killing the Hound: His strategy of trying to provoke her into finishing him backfired horribly and she probably would've done it otherwise. But while I feel kinda sad for him, it was also consistent for Arya to react like that. Not to mention pretty badass. Props once more to Maisie who absolutely nailed that scene. I'm glad she can finally go to Braavos now, that's been her obvious destination once she got that coin. I only hope that she doesn't become on of the Faceless Men but only learns from them. It'd be a bad idea to have her being played by different actresses, if only for a short time. So I hope either GRRM didn't go that route in the books or alternatively, B&W take a different path.

Arguably not, but what difference does it make? In-universe, he's already sentenced to death, so what? As far as reaction from the audience goes, I don't think he came in there with the intent to murder her, because he didn't know she was there. So it wasn't cold-blooded murder, either and I don't even know if he would've done it hadn't she attacked him first. Of course, that leaves the question "why the hell DID he go in there"? Wanted he one last look at his father? Or did he want to kill him in his sleep?

Good question. Apparently Cersei's in charge for now as regent, so she'll probably make the call. Can she appoint herself? If so, she might do that to secure her influence even after Tommen is married. If not, the ovious choice would be Jamie (she might or might not have to release him from the King's Guard first). While that would be hilarious (insert hand pun here), I seriously doubt Jamie would be up for the task or even want it. I'd say Mace Tyrell, since royal allies are always a preferred choice, but Cersei surely wouldn't want that. Has she any allies left? Maybe Lancel. Or that Maester that is currently doing some really freaky stuff with the Mountain's half-dead body. And btw, if she's in charge, she'll probably try to stop the Tommen-Margaery wedding. Either way, the KL stuff will remain interesting.

House White Walkers! I'd like vote for the Martells, but I know too few of them. I also voted Tyrell the last time and while I still think they would be best suited to actually rule, after the killing of Joffrey they hadn't had that much screentime. So of the big players who played a serious role this season, I'll have to go with House Stark because of the great improvement they made over the last ten episodes. Bran's storyline finally got interesting (and it could be one of best one's when it's all said and done), Jon Snow grew from a mopey boy into a leader and of course Arya remains one of my favorite characters (besides Tyrion and Varys, and I'd really love them to meet if the latter two also go to Braavos) and is on her way to become a force of her own. Not to forget Sansa, who went from fish out of water to now actually having some power over Littlefinger. So House Stark it is.

He probably didn't think of it as that big a risk. Get a boat, tell Jamie where to lead Tyrion, guide him to the boat and then go back to bed. When he realised something was wrong, he had no option but to go through with the plan because he couldn't just bring him back. Luckily for him, those bells rang relatively early. It would have been way worse if he heard them when he was already back. Why did he help him in the first place? Obviously because Tyrion saved everybody's ass at the Blackwater, so Varys thought he owed him for that. Thinking back to the trial, his line "Sadly, I don't forget anything" was a nice bit of foreshadowing. Not that Varys knew at this point, but on rewatch, we'll see this scene with a different eye. Which is one of the best things about the show, each time you go back after a new season has finished, it's a completely different experience. Back to the Arya/Hound scene: While I do think that the Hound isn't the monster he claims to be (but not necessarily thinks he is, it could be something between self protection and fishing for empathy) and was actually honest about his intention to protect Arya, that still doesn't excuse what he's done in the past. Killing that butcher's boy, while he was following orders, was still cruel (and maybe not even necessary, perhaps he could've just said he killed him and just let him escape). Also trying to kill that farmer for his carriage or stealing that silver are deeds that eventually caught up with him. And even if he at the end didn't want to ransom Arya, that was his intention at first. So he kinda had it coming, nice side and all. Arya was trying to see his good side, but when he tried to provoke her, she was reminded of all that and decided to let karma do it's way - and while she certainly can use that silver, I don't think she cares a lot about it, she mainly wanted to take it away from him. So while in the end, he may have deserved his fate, I'm still sad that he had to go out like that (assuming he doesn't somehow survive, which seems a bit far fetched to me, but who knows) and I wish he would've gotten a chance to further redeem himself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gi9-ajBA4IU

Just watched the Bran scene again. And I have so many questions. Who the hell was That old Guy in the Tree? One of the Old Gods? Who was that child with the fireballs? What about the skeletons? How will Brandon fly (I suppose ToGitT didn't mean the moon door...)? And why did Stannis come from north? Why not from south of the Wall? But most importantly, why didn't Tywin have some kind of newspaper? The daily Raven or something like that? That's just unrealistic.

Ugh. That was maybe the worst thing of the season. Have him executed all you want, that makes you an asshole. But that's just so gross, I doubt even Ramsay, Walder Frey or Craster could get behind that. I liked it.

After killing Shae, I wish Tyrion would've said "And now her squatch is ended."

You got that one wrong. She could've killed him, but she didn't want to. Because she wanted him to suffer. I guess she toyed with the idea, but after the Hound was finished with his speech, she was more like "Nope, no mercy kill for you, I'll let you die in agony". Edit: "You're the worst shit in the Seven Kingdoms." Well, she certainly left him to die like that. And stole his gold.

In southern Germany, we have a saying/curse that basically says "A [lightning] bolt shall hit you on the shitter". Well, it wasn't lightning, but...

So I guess we need a new thread title. I'll throw in "Tywin Lannister: The big dead" and "Tywin Lannister: A shitty father". Anyway, when I die, I hope I'm not getting killed on the shitter by my dwarf son with a crossbow after he discovered I was fucking his whore. Although at the very least that would make for a great game of "Clue".

Oops, yes of course. The question is, which fate is worse? The Hound dying a slow death, left to rott by the only one he thought had even a little bit of sympathy towards him, or the Mountain - whatever it is the crazy Maester will do to him. Right now, I'm picking the Mountain.

Wow. I really wanted to see Oberyn wreak havoc in KL, but now I know why GRRM didn't go that route. I'm almost willing to forgive him on that one. Where to start? Jon Snow's tactic was a bit stupid. It was indeed "walk right in and then kill him". Even worse, it worked. Sort of. Then the cavalry was indeed coming. A bit chliché and somewhere between "completely expected" and "WTF?". Still a great scene. I had some theories about the Bran storyline and what could happen at the fucking tree. Okay, I didn't thinkt about that in my wildest dreams. Holy Tywin on the shitter! Then were was some merely awesome stuff that got lost in the even more awesome stuff. Cersei almost managed to be likable for like five seconds long, but immidiately made up for it by making out with Jamie. And the Tyrion storyline. That was so fucking great, even if that ship sinks at the next moment, it was still totally worth it. I never liked Shae, but I also never believed the theories that she was in bed with Tywin. Well... I was never more wrong. That plot was so great, even Arya's story was overshadowed by it. And Maisie really nailed the part. Kinda feel sorry for the Mountain, he really thought she'd have some loyalty for him (as did I). I figured he was going to die soon, so I'm not shocked, and not really sad, but I'm gonna miss Rory McCann. Worst thing's the wait, but at least we have a lot of stuff to talk about. Got to go the the shitter now, hopefully no crossbow shootings tonight there.

I hope Tyrion is either rescued or killed this episode. The worst that could happen is that they give him a realistic out and pull a cliffhanger. Luckily, if you don't want to build up hope for nine months, only to have it brutally crushed in the first episode next year, you can spoil yourself and that's exactly what I'm going to do if they don't resolve it in tonight's episode. I agree that if he is indeed rescued somehow (I highly doubt that, but who knows what crazy twist awaits us?), it has to be Jamie and possibly Varys who could be behind it. As far as the Wall stuff goes, I'm interested in Jon's plan how to kill Mance. Walk in there, ask for an audience and then grab the next sword? Unlikely, he wouldn't make it near Mance unless completely chained up. So does he plan to kill a Wildling, put on his clothes and go undercover? I'm not sure how many people there know his face, but one would expect that at least those close to Mance would know Jon. So that's probably a no-go, either. Could he, instead of murdering him, end up brokering out a truce/peace? That's what I would consider as an option. Apparently, the NW can't hold them back, and instead off getting their asses killed, they might as well accept the fact and open the gates. Maybe the White Walkers finally make it close to the Wall, so the humans are like "yeah okay, let's ignore this little war thing we have for a moment and go fight the ice zombies together". The last possibility is Stannis making his way up there, like he goddam promised in last season's finale. He's got a big army now (or even if he didn't buy one yet, at least he's got 4,000 leftover, which is about 3,980 more than the NW has) and could defeat the Wildlings. I hope Bran finally finds that goddam tree and three-eyed raven. Please, let there be some kind of resolution to this storyline that was worth all the slug. Jojen told Bran "the raven is you", but of course that can't be taken literally. So I'm concluding it's some part of Bran's idendity he doesn't yet know about, and identity could have something to do with his family or some special destiny. Speaking of family, Benjen's up north of the Wall, too, and still missing. Another loose thread and wouldn't it be great if we could tie the two of them together? The question of course is if Benjen is dead or alive. Or maybe a zombie, if he ran into the White Walkers. Yeah, now I wish we'll see Benjen sitting at the tree, warging like crazy and saying "Hi Bran, I see you got my call. Now, here's some crazy shit for you to see". Something like that would make that storyline really interesting. I still think Arya & the Hound will want to go to Braavos. It's the only logical destination. I doubt Arya and Sansa get reunited because Lysa is dead now, so when Arya is finished with laughing manically, they'll turn around and leave. After that, Arya probably wants to use her coin, and I see the Hound planning to tag along. He mentioned the Second Sons earlier in the season and a sellsword job in Essos is what I assumed as his preferred destination since a long time. The big question is, will he make it there? I agree with Mz Anthrope, I see him falling victim to that nasty bite wound and Arya finally making true on her promise "one day, I'll put a sword through your skull" or something like that and crossing another name of her list - only without any satisfaction. Maybe afterwards, she'll meet up with Brienne? It's a small way apparently to the Eyrie, so it wouldn't be far fetched that if they are there at the same time, they would also run into each other. Hm, maybe they'll go looking for Sansa together then? And then I hope we'll get a bit of preview for next season. What's up next in KL (a bloody wedding or two, I hope), what's the Bolton clan up to, maybe we get a quick glimpse at some characters with little to no screentime this season (Walder Frey, Balon Greyjoy) and of course I'd like to see what Sansa & LF are going to do now.

I wish Stannis and Melisandre had a real son. Granted! Stannis Baratheon jr. (Stannis sr. just couldn't think of a name) was a boy of remarkable physique, intelligence and character and soon was legitimized by Stannis sr. as his rightful heir. After Stannis sr. won the Iron Throne, his son was groomed to be the next king and was well on his way to become the king to truly unite the Seven Kingdoms and bring peace and prosperity to them. Unfortunately, during his rebellous teenage phase, he swore off the Lord of Light to piss off his parents, and was promptly burned alive and buried alongside his half-sister, who had died the same way years ago. After Stannis' sr. eventually bored himself to death, Roose Bolton won the war for the vacant throne but died shortly after, so King Ramsay I made everybody long for the days of now-called Joffrey the Gentle. I wish the Iron Bank would go bankrupt.

Hm, that would actually make sense. He's like a father to her, at least (when he's not talking about fucking a bear, that is...). Plus they're both redheads. But I always thought her parents were just dead, like pretty much every Wildling's parents.