mattie0808

Ah...that must be it, thanks, both. I get the feeling we're all staying here after all, in any event, lol.

Quoting my post here from a couple of days ago...am I crazy, or didn't someone start a Season 1 thread shortly after I posted this, and now it's gone? Are we really being restricted to one thread for a 15-season network show?

Weren't we going to go to separate season threads? Did a mod do a poll before, or am I mixing up shows? I don't know if mods have to start those, but I'm thinking now would be a good time for it, not only because Pop is starting over from the beginning, but because of the show going to Hulu, meaning people can now en masse watch whatever they want in whatever order/time they want (in addition to those backlogged or jumping around with their DVR), which may make this thread a little unwieldy. :)

She has actual facts to bring forward, not only about the back surgery and the lie about the anonymous woman's position on the TV show, but also the fact that Paul himself went to the DA with the first accusation and volunteered to be questioned, and he himself first made that accusation public. It's not just that she doesn't believe him capable of this, it's not just that she's known him for decades about as well as anyone could, and it's not just about the Scientology elephant in the room. That's how you do this. (I'd tell Lena Dunham to take notes, but she's beyond...well, beyond anything and everything really.)

^^^Fantastic ????

I haven’t thought much about this since I’ve been so disappointed in the Jennings spoilers, but the three-year jump sure makes the Oleg storyline from last season just a big fat nothing, doesn’t it? I could not BELIEVE they didn’t even have him in the season finale. Guess it just doesn’t matter whether the KGB was onto him? Or what the outcome of his whole corruption investigation with the food supplies was? That is one hell of a dropped plotline. I mean, wherever Oleg is or whatever he’s doing in the new season, what was the point of any single thing that happened to him in Season 5?! I have to say, I don’t have particularly high hopes that Oleg - or any of the Russian characters that aren’t the Jennings or maybe Claudia - are going to get the full attention or story movement/closure they deserve. But then, a lot of my hope and positive expectation has been dashed just by learning the main direction they want to go in for P/E and Paige. Sigh.

Also, in the book, she talks about being sad as a young teenager in the Sea Org in Clearwater because her baby sister was left in Scientology "day care," because the babies were not tended to much at all. She would try to go visit the sister during her short breaks. And...she said that since she was a child, she always wanted to feel like she had a "normal" and "right" life/family/home. Some, but not all, of that was about not having certain material things, but she says more than once that she even when her belief in Scientology was pretty well fully committed, she always had non-Scientology friends and staff to retain a bit of the normalcy she sought, and knowing that many people in her non-church life (at King of Queens and elsewhere) thought Scientology was at least weird/unusual. She was reluctant to fully immerse her daughter in it, and her husband never seemed to be a full-blown Scientologist, so I think she might have used some Scientology precepts with her (there's an amusing bit where every Scientologist she knows is trying touch assists and other things to stop the baby from crying and literally none of it ever works), but I can see not going all out on it.

Yikes. :| This is...not good. Very disappointing. I don't mind the time-jump at all, I always wanted one to make sure we had the best chance to see P/E's reaction to everything that goes down with the Soviet Union. So, fine. BUT... everything else? Paige? Elizabeth? PHILIP?! COME ON. I really thought the missteps of last season were mainly because they got lost in trying to get set-up for what they knew would be their final season, and eventually that getting to the end of their story would helpfully refocus them. Guess not. Sheesh. I'm most upset about Philip. (I think.) I'm having such a hard time with the idea of P/E not working together as a team that I (almost) don't care that it's PAIGE she'll be working with. What is the $%&#-ing point?!

That's certainly what I presumed, as opposed to "it would be likely impossible and rather inconsistent with her story for her to have the change/couple of bucks on her person at age 13 to make a local call and get on a local bus." The point is, her mother and the other Scientologists present that day put her out while making no effort in any way to try to provide for her, or enable her to provide for herself. That she was, in fact, able to provide for herself is not so much a contradiction as a testament to her survival skills and strength. That they didn't care whether she was able to fend for herself (or, potentially were happy to have who-knows-what happen to her to get her to come crawling back) is the point of the show, that Scientology is an abusive cult that harms and destroys lives and families as part of its standard operating procedure. For me, details about how she survived are interesting (I'd love to read or see that somewhere if she's done that), but not necessary. There are details like that in all of these stories, IMO, that there's little time or need to specifically go into.

The only thing I could think of was "some marriages." (Maybe, "some royal marriages" or "some traditional marriages"?)

I thought, from what was posted over at the Bunker, that things only really came to a head between her and her mother late last year, and the mother (with her husband) left the ranch to travel for an extended period of time...to me, it also sounds like the mother was holding out hope that she could get her grandsons into Scientology, especially if the land was used as a bargaining piece. It's not like someone living in their parents' guest room or something, that land was huge. I don't know when they would have shot this, but Mike Rinder says at his blog that the mother sold the land shortly afterward, and so Liz and her family haven't been living there any more for a while...

I agree, I'm actually a bit more into this season, if anything. But maybe for a different reason. I don't know how many longer-term Scientology watchers are here, but to me, the first season was a (riveting!) retelling of the escaped and now anti-Scientologists greatest hits. Starting with Rinder. But also Amy and Bonnie Scobee, Mark and Claire Headley, Ron Miscavige, Tom Devocht...during the "specials" with the Reddit AMAs...Chris Shelton, Paulette Cooper, Karen de la Carriere, Jeffrey Augustine. All of these folks have been out of the church for some time, and have told their stories more than once, in their own books, interviews, in the Tampa-newspapers "Truth Rundowns," in Going Clear, and who knows what else. I'm in no way trying to take away from what they did in agreeing to come on THIS show, and I would never be the one to try to minimize what this show and Leah are doing. It's absolutely huge. But, if you've read Leah's book or kept up with her since she left, or have been following the church for awhile, most of Season 1 was known stories told in a compelling, and sometimes, new, way. Season 2 is a natural outcome, IMO, of what some have already mentioned...once the show was out and highly successful, they started hearing from EVERYONE. And I think Leah, now having literally too many stories to tell, decided to be deliberate about what she chose to highlight in season 2. The type of things most likely to get the church in actual, legal trouble, as opposed to PR/public perception trouble (every single time last season Mike told her that what she was "doing" was "exposing" the church, she never seemed happy or satisfied with that, and while I think she's hard on herself, I don't disagree). So... Season 2? Children. Suicides. Things that are current (like the mother from this week's episode selling the land after the episode was taped). Things that are either permanent, not subject to statutes of limitations (or to much longer ones), or that are potentially so horrifying to the public at large that they can't be ignored. And, besides ALL of that...I still feel like we're learning about the "behind the curtain" truth of Scientology. The quote from LRH about how 7-year-old girls should be totally fine with a grown man kissing them passionately hit me like a ton of bricks, whatever I already knew about Scientology and them treating children as adults. Saina's pictures of her time as a child in the Sea Org/at the ranch were incredible, and some amazing proof of the child labor issues with the church. Loved the LRH birthday party, hahaha. A mother purposefully isolating her troubled daughter (who DID report her issues through the "right" channels in the church) or telling her daughter the church sent her to the daughter's bedside after a suicide attempt or the church lying about a Sea Org's member's suicide to the point that his wife is asked about her husband years later...that's Scientology in action in a way we did not see last year, and in a way, to some extent, I think even Scientology watchers may not know in the same detail. And next week promises a lot of David M. info. I'm on the side of being impressed with how Leah and Mike have chosen to progress the show. They are absolutely gunning for law enforcement involvement, and to push the envelope of what they, and *particularly* Mike, can possibly be comfortable with. But it's important enough to do, while keeping the show compelling viewing. Good for them. And it's clearly driving the church nuts, giving their responses so far, particularly on social media. I'm all in.

I. AM. SO. BLINDINGLY. ANGRY. WITH. THAT. SO-CALLED. "MOTHER." What in the actual, literal $%&#! I can't believe a woman being sent to work immediately after her husband's suicide was somehow topped in the same damn episode. Good lord. After that "she signed an affidavit saying her husband's death was totes not our fault!" I was almost afraid of what my reaction would have been had there been a similar disclaimer at the end, from the mother or anyone else. I may throw my phone into the Hudson if there are videos from the widow's "friends" or that "mother" on a Scientology hit site tomorrow. Help!

I think ex-Scientologists, especially ex-Sea Org members, as Winterfalls said, have INSANE work ethics, and once they get their foot in the door in the real world, will easily impress any colleagues, bosses, and clients. Also, I'm sure they've gone through most of their lives stretching money as far as it can go -- working for the church meant you got paid almost nothing, and even if you're not on staff, the cost of being a Scientologist is insane, so I'd suspect they'd be able to budget their money very well when they get out. (That could go the other way, and people blow money when they get out because they've never had much chance to control any real amount of it in the church, but I'd bet Scientology would tend to make people careful with money rather than big spenders?) I'm sure it took them awhile to figure out who to get on their feet -- Mark and Amy went to their non-Scientology parent immediately after getting out, and Rinder and other escapees wind up needing someone to take them in (other exes, etc.), it probably took awhile for them to get themselves situated. And they do have skills, especially once they work the Scientology-speak out of their systems. Mark Headley was doing all sorts of production, Mike Rinder was a media spokesperson, Amy Scobee was doing all levels of people-management, etc. And in the end, I'm sure there's a bit of a selection process going on here -- there's more motivation to show people who have (eventually) done well for themselves after leaving, not only on this show, but things like Going Clear as well...you want to give hope to those considering getting out, and show that no matter what the church says, there IS a good life to be had after and outside Scientology. I think those are their houses (and they aren't so crazy nice that they can't be theirs), and most of these folks have been living with the church's stalking/spying/surveillance since the day they left. There's little percentage in hiding at this point...if the church is tracking Leah/Mike through airline records, it can't be too hard to figure out where these folks, especially the ones who were super-high up in the church, live. I really enjoyed the entire first season -- I think if disconnection (with some fair gaming thrown in) was the focus, this next season is going to be abuse (with fair gaming as well, of the victims who dare to speak out). There's really an infinite source of story types, unfortunately.

Crops is a really challenging one...I think maybe it would help to get away from listing individual vegetables, but even then , all I've got is, "cotton, wheat, sugar, vegetables." Hmmm... For appetizers, I think adding salad and soup to the list of things like potato skins might help?

Random question, probably for a hard-core Reddit/wiki-level ER fandom (if there is one)? I'm re-watching "All in the Family," which I'm waaaay too excited to have on my DVR. -- Is there any other point in the show, especially during the Greene years, where 5 different doctors participated in an ER trauma case? Eventually, five did before Lucy was sent up to surgery...Weaver, Malucci, Kovac, Greene, and Corday were working on her, and I feel like that might be a number we hadn't seen before (and maybe since...)? -- Up in surgery, they also show Lucy being shocked 7 times before Corday and Romano (can barely bring themselves to) call it. Is that the most/one of the most times the audience has been shown? Random, I know, but a thought I had this time, along with happily (sort of, lol) checking for Bonnie from How to Get Away with Murder as the pregnant wife of Sobriki.

I guess I don't think anything is stopping the show from doing a flashback from the POV of a dead character? Or one that provides us information not available to Jimmy? To me the cold opens provide the audience context or foreshadowing or other information, and aren't meant to be literal flashbacks/memories the current characters are having... I'd think if the writers want to, there'd be little issue with them doing a Chuck flashback where we see or learn something Jimmy never did?

Fear not! Do not assume our writers will let such things as death and limited character POV stop them! Remember, Jimmy doesn't know his mother said his name before she died, but the audience does. They can find ways. :)

I thought the swim wound up delaying her getting back home significantly -- it would have delayed her anyway, and the leeches really screwed her over; I didn't think she got lost/confused, just slowed up because she chose to do something fun instead of focusing on the task at hand (getting back home as quickly as possible)?

I really, truly enjoyed this season, with some caveats. -- I am a bit annoyed they ended on another cliffhanger, and we're supposed to believe that Piper, Alex, Taystee, Suzanne, Red, and others are about to bite it. They won't (the reaction to the guy killing Piscatella makes me pretty confident on that front, aside from them seeing Freida has a gun, maybe). -- I'm with those TIRED of Suzanne. I don't blame her for P's death, but I really, REALLY wish the black family would stop being so flat-out desperate to take care of her at all costs at all times. I don't think it's realistic. They'd be EXHAUSTED of it by now. She and Lorna literally have major parts of the both the prison and the outside world jumping through these INSANE hoops to try to help them not fall to pieces. Why? I know they are loved by their respective prison families, but come the F on. At some point, you can't just keep at it, especially when there are literally life and death issues staring you in the face. -- I don't give a single goddamn about Bailey. I was so relieved they didn't have P's father offer him some sort of absolution. I know he didn't mean to kill her, but stop. Seriously. I don't think for a second if Lorna lost her damn mind in the cafeteria and Nicky tried to intervene, Nicky would wind up dead. These accidents always and only seem to happen to certain people. Bailey can take his guilt literally anywhere else in the world rather than weeping in front of her FATHER for some freaking forgiveness/closure. I'm shocked (not) he didn't actually go to Litchfield in the end. I'm sure he'll eventually go to a hospital or otherwise get some long-term counseling, and find peace and a good life in the future (with the support of his family, and the entire legal system). I'm so sorry for him that this is what he's looking forward to. I mean, he's definitely going to have a rough couple of years to get there. And P will be decomposing in her grave. Yeah. -- Amazing that the SWAT team (or whatever) got EVERYONE OUT WITHOUT KILLING ANYONE but Piscatella. It's weird, it's like, even in a crazy, violent, dangerous situation, the folks with the guns don't, you know, have to...accidentally...kill anyone. They even got Team Latte out alive when they were really trying to take dudes out. It was refreshing, lol. -- I still don't like Piper and wish Alex could move on from her, but they are clearly the end-game for the show. Whatever. -- I liked seeing Fig again in this context. I liked seeing the various family members outside the prison (and against all my better judgement, was happy for Leanne for the moment with her mother). I liked seeing Piper's mom. -- I'm, like, violently relieved that Gloria's son is okay. I don't mind Maria getting hers and I'm glad her guy came with the kid (though, should you bring a baby to a violent hostage situation, lol?).

Yup. I cannot STAND this movie. I think meeting your significant other's family is almost always a very stressful situation, and I really think it's incumbent on the family to make things as smooth as possible, even if (or, especially if) you wind up not liking the person or don't think the person is right for the family member. Those are perfectly valid feelings and opinions to have, but you accomplish nothing but being a mean, rude, JACKASS by making your dislike clear, further agitating someone already clearly nervous, magnifying each and every problem and mistake, and GANGING UP ON THE PERSON as a group. It doesn't seem like a big deal in some respects, which is why it does my Family Stone-hating heart sooooooo much good to see the hatred for this movie here. Whatever I might have thought of Meredith in almost literally any other situation, all I could do is feel sorry for her in this movie. That family fancies themselves so awesome, smart, tolerant, inclusive, caring, and whatever other wonderful adjectives they would undoubtedly give themselves without hesitation, but all I saw in them was that they are MEAN. And they punch-down. GTFO.

^^^Me too! Even though we pretty much know where this is headed. That was intense. I thought Nacho might give himself a stroke by accident, lol.

Now, this is a thread I can spend some time in! ;) I immediately and always felt Dottie dropped the ball on purpose, and yes, I absolutely HATE that as an ending. Dottie would have been more prepared/girded up for that play at the plate than any other play in her career. I don't care how much Kit "wanted it" or how much extra shoulder she threw at her. They purposely showed the Dottie can take a serious hit and maintain her grip. She's bigger than Kit and tough as nails. I've never thought that Kit just sort of got her that one time. To be honest, I wouldn't like it much even if it were proven that Dottie didn't do it on purpose, because the entire idea of Kit's "redemption" or "triumph" or whatever doesn't work for me. Dottie wasn't a bad sister. She wasn't trying to hurt Kit, or overshadow her, or any of the things that Kit felt -- Kit felt them because she was simply and frankly immature. She didn't overcome her immautrity or see her sister fairly, she just felt better because she beat her. So...bleh, anyway. But I do think Dottie dropping the ball fits more with her personality and the conflicting way she felt about her guilt over Kit (she is competitive with her, but can't help but hurt when she sees Kit hurting), than with her just being unable to make that play. I absolutely, positively LOVE this movie except for this part. It's really annoying, lol. Doesn't Jack try to get on with her, but they don't balance the weight and it tips over, putting them both back in the water? They could have tried again, perhaps ;), but I do think that was supposed to be the idea?

The part of me that was WAY too excited that Benton's karate chop was not only back, but back in the right spot (when the beat changes) is happy to assume they didn't group him with the rest of the old-schoolers for that reason alone. I think I said this earlier in this thread, but just that (with bonus Benton charging out of a room at the end of the credits action! ;)) made it worth tuning in for the finale after watching sporadically during the final season. Lol, I need help. I did quite enjoy the final episode, the last scene was great, and they did a great job bringing everyone back for the finale and during the last season. I hadn't watched in years before that. And I'm a bit late, but I have to throw in some SERIOUS love for All in the Family, including the cliffhanger in Be Still My Heart before that. I remember BSMH was promoted by NBC as having something crazy happen, and while watching with my college roommate, we became super-fixated on the kids whose parents died in the accident. We thought they were going to say that the son purposefully, like, yanked the steering wheel or covered his father's eyes, or somehow caused the crash (maybe that would have been the case in the later, vengeful helicopter years? ;)). The thing about Sobriki, for me at least, was -- sure, he was crazy, and I was convinced something bad was going to happen to HIM because he more or less fell through the cracks with everyone, and Lucy wasn't really in a proper position to handle his case. I was sort of thinking along the lines of what actually happened or could have happed later -- he leaves the hospital with no one noticing and either gets killed (he was hit by a car) or kills himself (the wife thought he might have gone to the roof of their apartment building). It never, not once, occurred to me that he would, well, do THAT. IMO, that was more shocking than the Gant situation, and DAMN was that shocking, and I think I have it tied with Green just getting straight stomped on in the bathroom. So well conceived and shot. Later that night, I got on my trusty dial-up and went to a message board that had absolutely nothing to do with ER, and the first thread in the off-topic forum was titled, "Somebody page Benton!!!!!!!!" Lol, every ER person on that forum found each other that night! All in the Family is one of my favorite individual episodes of TV, period, and I would happily argue it belongs with the best TV episodes ever. It's just so well-paced, edited (including the use of music), written, directed, and acted. The first parts, through Carter and Lucy being sent up to the OR, are pretty much perfect. I'm going to try not to go into a full litany of the greatness, since I'd just be giving a detailed recap of the episode, so I'll just wrap this up the way I started and shout out Benton and Benton/Carter -- him flying down the stairs... "Is he conscious!? -- IS HE CONSCIOUS!!!!!!!" The "Aww man..." when he gets a look at the stab wounds. Him barely tearing himself away to go take care of Lucy. "I'm glad it's you." Carter figuring out Lucy died. And yes, the later scenes with Carter's intervention, the punch, and flight were amazing. I have what I'm sure is a relatively dumb question that I remember looking up years ago when these episodes first happened, but can't remember/find an answer with a quick Google now...Carter is stabbed twice, badly, in the back. The entire time they are treating him in the ER, he's lying on his back (except when they roll him on his side twice to get a look at the wounds). How does that work? Wouldn't they, at least initially, need to have full access to his back just to try to close the wounds and slow up the bleeding? Are we supposed to assume that was done/attempted before they wheeled him into the trauma room (though his shirt was still on, so that's probably not the case)? Count me with those not happy that they're only doing six seasons, but it's so great to have ER on TV regularly again!

That's how I feel...I've not been super-critical of this season, but it has been slow, and I really, REALLY expected that even if it was a last-minute cliffhanger, they'd kick the final season into gear. No Oleg. NO OLEG?!?!!?!?!?!?!? I did really, really like the Martha scene. It was so tonally weird to have a hopeful and just plain nice note in this episode/season, but boy was it needed. Good job there, Gabriel (and we learned his real name)! There's been discussion here before about Alan Sepinwall's hypothesis that penultimate seasons are the weakest for great shows on FX. (And Sepinwall tonight: "This wasn’t so much a bad season of The Americans as a disappointing one.") I agree with that in reference to Justified, but man, even that season 5 finale had some action, resolved some plotlines, and set out the main story for the final season (the final showdown between Raylan and Boyd). Hell, I would have taken -- no matter how contrived -- a "Stan finds The Americans' equivalent of Gale's inscription in Walt's copy of Leaves of Grass." I have no doubt the final season will be amazing. But I'm disappointed in this season.