Faemonic

The show as a whole was at its peak in Season One and the pattern since then has just been a plummet overall. It was the showrunners' longest writer's block, and the biggest twist subversion in the whole show ever was a flop (Regina hates Snow because...dun, dun, duuunnnnn! ... What, that's it?) And the second biggest twist subversion in the whole show ever was just are you kidding me (Neal left Emma and let her go to prison because Pinnocchio told him to...and he loved her too much to ever actually communicate anything important. Which Emma, in Neal's final days, understands and accepts.) Things that sounded like they should be well-planned or inspired such as the Oz or Frozen arcs were just haphazard. I adore the entire cast and I can only hope that they all find really, really, really good gigs after this...it frankly shouldn't be too difficult to find better gigs.

YES. Yes, I would rather have seen that, because Emma would have been emotional. The way it went, it was like one moment she's in with the tearful goodbye kisser, and the next several moments he's offscreen she's like, "What the hell is a 'Killian'?" Uh-oh. That means they're going to Regina-fy Hook in 4B-5, aren't they. Soon the sad ayebrows over bright blue puppy eyes and the throb in his voice when he's grief-stricken is going to be so devalued, just like Regina's tears and Rumple's "oh alas but I'm a scared wee peasant" tragedy face.

I can only guess that Hook had an incorrect idea of exactly how much about Rumple has changed. Coward, yes. Liar, yes. Crocodile-skin vest...only under extenuating circumstances, apparently. Force choking people? Nah, that was so last week and 30-odd years ago. Dungeon capture and torture like Robin Hood had to endure? Well, if Robin himself isn't worried about that happening again, then... If Hook thought that, "She's the mother of your grandson!" would be a good argument to the murderer of Mr. Gold's son's actual mother, then Hook might have thought that The Dark One had changed that much. Regina doesn't seem to be at all useful to Rumple anymore, and the way that she isolated herself after Roland's baby-momma drama would have been the perfect cover. Regina's also the most powerful Light Magic user in all the realms. Why didn't Rumple even consider hatting Regina? Whatever it was (the writers' love of Regina aside), because Rumple didn't go that way, Rumple could evidently be trusted that much...and since that doesn't even make any sense, then it makes as much sense that Hook trusted that Rumple wouldn't try to hat Emma--Emma, who did rescue Neal, and whom Rumple did mentor for like an hour on his deathbed. I was even appalled that Rumple would try that, considering that Ingrid had an investment in Emma and Rumple needed Ingrid to something something something I don't know, and considering that people would kind of notice if Emma disappeared, and ask questions, and all that. Bottom line: Both Rumple and Hook had as much understanding of character relationships as the writer(s) of that episode. Which works out neatly, if terribly when applied to suspension of disbelief.

Wah, I miss Ruby! But I don't want her back if her presence is going to be less use than Will's.

Prediction for 4B! Yeah, I don't think Hook's heartfelt phone confession is ever coming back. The writing on this show is beginning to remind me of Byzantium, a movie that I've never seen but only watched through . Basically, bad thing happens to the main character and it's portrayed as very, very, very traumatic to the character...but that's it. It doesn't develop the character, it doesn't develop the character's relationships... or, conflict arises! ...But in the most isolated, so statement-artistic that it makes no sense way that is actually easy and lazy in terms of storytelling. Once isn't even trying to be statement-artistic, thank goodness, but that same isolated element of conflict, and how stagey everything is getting with like nobody's alive unless somebody's watching is really getting in the way of its enjoyability in my opinion.

I think most people who had seen the spinoff were hoping that Will's history of would have allowed him to recognize what was up with Hook, but since that didn't happen and the attempted book theft is going nowhere fast, I don't see why he's here. Is Will going to lead the Merry Men now? Would that not be too much to juggle with the Queens of Evil, Regina, Rumbelle, maybe Henry and The Author plotline?

All right! I've finally watched Heroes and Villains and are you kidding me with how they handled the Marian-Regina-Robin triangle?? Marian was being a very reasonable person! Robin Hood was saying that Roland would see it as a complicated mess, and I really think that Robin Hood was super wrong and just projecting his own worldview on his small child in a way that's really not healthy, but if Robin Hood saw it that way, and viewers of Robin Hood's age saw it that way, then that means it's interesting to stay with how Wee Roland grows up with 50-50 split of property or whoever pays whoever else's alimony, and partial custody, and Regina being the good stepmum. The awesome amazingly brilliant stepmom who has plumbing and heating and indoors seriously how could they let that adorable little boy grow up in the middle of the woods he's going to die of hypothermia. Nope! Gotta keep the soul mates apart! Regina wouldn't even consider giving Marian false memories, documentation, and enough money to make her way alone or, I don't know, with Katherine who was supposed to go to Boston to study law but got kidnapped and drugged instead you know she's gotta be hating her hometown by now. Or Ruby, who nobody's ever doing anything with anymore. All three of them! They'll be like the Un-Charmed sisters! They'd balance the world versus the Queens of Darkness, if only someone could remind them of their awesomeness! Nope, not with all of the Merry Men and Mulan who is supposed to also be there. They could all have false memories of being Survivalist Ex-Greenpeace Eco-Terrorist Faction. I could be a show all its own with Social Political Commentary and it would be awesome! Nope. Just Marian, Robin Hood, and Roland...to make Regina miserable even though her life isn't particularly difficult like wasn't Henry her happy ending a while ago and hasn't Henry and Regina both had more scenes together than Emma and Henry? You seriously had me going there, but I like your explanation much better than how the show just ignored everything about who wanted to stay in the Enchanted Forest and who wanted to stay in Storybrooke, and don't get a say because they're not any royal family. Won't somebody, anybody, think of the peasants???

I finally watched Heroes and Villains! Was it just me or was Emma's voice a little off? She said "remains" when I would have thought she would say, " 's still there" and "it appears so" when I thought she'd say, "Looks like it!"

I realized what the insistence upon calling Rumple's separation from the dagger "cleaving" reminds me of: this strip from The Order of the Stick webcomic.

I was browsing the TV Tropes website and found a word for a whole lot of aspects that have bugged me about this show. Basically, it all comes down to Glurge. I could watch each new episode and play Glurge Bingo.

Joss Whedon spoke up about happy couples being boring, too, but his works don't seem to be rooted as much in an abject lack of object constancy. I don't know if that's editing, writing, or directorial decisions that flesh them out because the actors across the board are really really good.

Considering how we've seen Hook dodge Emma's personal questions a lot but opened up to David (offscreen, naturally,) about Liam...I think (well, I would want to think) there might be a whole lot more Charming/Hook friendship than we're seeing. I think Charming strikes a good enough balance between being the protective father and Hook's only onscreen friend (awkwaaard...I mean, why else would whether Hook snogged Emma at the end of the date be something that David doesn't want to know, but Mary Margaret is fine with, unless Mary Margaret wasn't as close to Hook as a person as David was and therefore it wouldn't be awkward for her to know everything that Hook's doing with her daughter? I am really fanwanking this.) As for history, ha, ha... I actually fanwank that Fairy Tale Land is under a milder memory fog than the Storybrooke Curse. Everybody offscreen does a Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead. There are events in Fairy Tale Land's past that affect the Fairy Tale Land future and present...but I seriously doubt that there is any cohesive history that the writers would care to put in the first place, therefore, characters wouldn't take an interest in something that doesn't exist. So, if Belle only started getting apologies from Hook and Regina because Belle fans demanded it (as I suspect was the case) and that's a concern of immediate relationships, then she's probably not going to geek out in the background with Hook about how The Jewel of the Realm was a model of brigantine that cannot be duplicated because all the finest artisan-sorcerer designers and builders were put to death upon the completion of the fleet so that they could never repeat such magnificence, and all other models were destroyed in the Sea Sorcerer's War of 350 A.R. (After Aslan's Resurrection.)

I don't know anymore if we're supposed to believe that Rumple didn't know about the door and would or wouldn't have used it. He still lopped Killian's hand off to get a magic bean that was supposed to bring him to Baelfire in the Land Without Magic and therefore wouldn't have had magic, and supposedly only thought up of The Dark Curse because the Blue Fairy said that there were no more magic beans. And the Seer confirmed that The Dark Curse was the only way for him. Also, something else bugs me about that door that I've taken to the relationships thread.

Wait, didn't Mulan join Robin Hood's band? Why is Robin Hood's band there and Mulan is not there? I miss Ruby, too. But the main thing I wanted to post about was how there was a lot of good tension in 2B about whether Snowing would split up over going to live in the Enchanted Forest if Emma was going to follow them, but then Neverland happened, and then Pan's curse with selective transportation contrived it so that Emma would have to remain in the real world with Henry (even though Emma was born in the Enchanted Forest), and then Emma got to visit the Enchanted Forest and actually play princess instead of check out the ruins of the place that she could have once grown up as princess in... But, I haven't watched Heroes and Villains, so I don't know how the portal to Arandelle works. Was there any reason that people who wanted to return to The Enchanted Forest couldn't use the portal to Arandelle and just take a boat ride to the Enchanted Forest? I'm thinking of Emma, Snow, and Charming again debating whether they can go back or should go back...but I'm also thinking of the peasants who got caught up in this giant curse without ever getting to vote for it, like, yeah, Grumpy appreciated pencillin, ice cream, and electricity but he also thought of the Enchanted Forest as home. Doesn't he get to have a story arc shown about how "home" is really wherever the other six dwarves are or something? But back to Emma and Snowing. Is that story arc just done without ever being actually resolved?

Season 3B was a gargantuan disappointment for that. I mean, we've been seeing flying monkeys in Henry's story book since season one. A&E pretty much said before then that Oz was "a matter of when, not if" so I figured that with two and a half years to catch up on the source material there would be a cornucopia of...nope! Dorothy appears for one episode, chats with the Witches of the Directions for ten minutes, douses Zelena, and then she's gone. Okay, silver shoes instead of ruby slippers, that's book canon. But...that's...it? Nobody dropped a house on Regina that Regina survives through being awesome? No...no wheelers, even? (Not source material as per Baum, but so Disney owned!)

I kept being boggled by what Rumple's motivation could be now that Nealfire's dead, but I realize that clinging to magic power has been consistent with Rumple's character. - Rumple wanting Dark One powers to protect Kid Bae. Fine. - Rumple wanting to keep Dark One powers because he'd gotten used to a certain standard of living. Fine, he admits that was a mistake. Or maybe he was just saying later that it was a mistake, when what he really objected to were the unwanted but not-exactly-contrived consequences of his decisions. - Rumple wanting to bring magic back to Storybrooke because...oh, wait, he didn't know then that the town line wiped people's memories. - Rumple wanting to keep doing magic because he needed to break the curse-break side-effects to find his son...is what he told Belle, but wasn't a factor in using the True Love potion to bring magic back to Storybrooke. - Rumple getting traumatized from being Zelena's sex slave and watching helplessly as his son dies. I could get on board with that if he ever mentioned it! But...what's he fighting now? Neal's dead. Zelena's dead. Hook's harmless. Regina, I don't know what's going on with her but since Cora's dead she probably won't go after Rumple any time soon. Rumple's been a magic addict since Zoso died, I guess, but something's just missing I feel in his motivation. I have low hopes that would clarify now that he's over the town line, magic-less, and can't get back to Storybrooke (but oh we all know he will find a way.)

(On a tangent...when is Game of Thrones coming back? I guess that's easier to world-build, and keep characters consistent, because it's based on a book. Sure, they changed stuff up that's disappointing to fans of the book series, but just as an onscreen thing it is solid.) Ah, but do they like him as a character, or do they like him as a person? I think the latter can get in the way of the former. I mean, when the Captain gets Floor'd, he kind of deserves it (much as I love him, he does...and I kind of love him more for that) but a lot of Woegina becomes crocodile tears after a while. But maybe this is meandering over to something that belongs in the Villains thread, because Your Mileage May Vary on this of course. Hat tip to Souris on the Fandom and Viewer issues page for the link to Jane Espenson's tweet about how Swan Queen shippers have it the hardest. Was it because of what Happy's actor said about SQ fans being the rudest of all, last Christmas? Or is it because Swan Queen as a romantic pairing is never going to happen but the creative team keeps tagging it as if it's going to happen?

That's a good point, but at the same time I can see the plot even kind of suffering in order to bring Regina to the fore. That Regina could do True Love's Kiss without a heart and be the most powerful Light Magic user ever was a twist for its own sake but didn't thematically gel and I just feel so sorry for Emma basically being written like a combination of Scrappy Doo (failing to face down Zelena...twice... "Lemme at 'er! Lemme at 'er!") and Princess Peach ("Your princess/Savior is in another castle/realm!") Our hero, everybody. That's also interesting. But I don't know. I think Hook might have just the right amount of love from the writers that he's utilized in what's probably the most believable way, not so much that he's taken over the show, he's still only the supporting character of Emma and Rumple...but not so little that I miss him like I miss Season 1B Mary Margaret. Or Ruby. Or maybe whoever's in charge of writing Hook is just better at it. Slightly, I mean, given the main thesis that the characters can't suffer or reap consequences for setting up plot. Which brings me to... I think if you're good enough and very very very lucky, then it happens. I mean, we're still watching, right? Then they must have kept up with some industry standard. Some very promising shows that are far better-written get canceled, too, so, skill only gets you so far and sometimes not even. That's the reality of the industry and network politics...probably, I don't work there. What you describe about Victim Sue, for example, reminds me of Frances Hodgeson Burnett's "Little Lord Fauntleroy." Thing happens. Narrator describes it. Narrator shows other characters talking about it in the way that was described. Granted, it isn't the Mood Piece that amateur writers have such an instinctive attraction for, there are other things that happen to mercifully break out of the repetitive dwelling-on that one event, but the juciest conflict (between Cedric's lowborn mother and Cedric's deceased father's father who was a nobleman with a thawing heart) wasn't played up at all--because, I inferred, Burnett didn't want to upset her darling main character Ceddie. By the way? This book is a classic. As in, people can bear to pass this awfulness down generations. I couldn't bear it for more than ten minutes at a time, and reading Mary Sue fanfiction is a guilty pleasure of mine. So, if there is an audience for an aspect, and it's a large audience, and they're loud, and they represent what can be converted to covering the production costs of the next season and everybody's salaries...and it remains up to an industry standard, then...well, I don't want to be too harsh and say, "There goes all creative integrity." More like, "Writers (and notes from executives) can swing that way." Being able to align a developed character with a planned plot is a challenge that I've personally had, and I'm just one person, and I've known that this was a weakness of mine for years, so I can't imagine how that can come out smoothly as a collaboration. I can imagine sacrificing one for the other just to get something done and out there, though, especially on a deadline. And especially if many of these writers have never attended a workshop at an anime convention, or read a book on their craft, whereby this "rift" in the plot-character continuum would have been brought into their awareness. But it is a fundamental thing, it shows across the board, so I can only guess that, with the success that these writers have seen, many of them might not feel the need to go back down to the level of "how" and rearrange how they think and work; instead keep an ear out for "what", that is if the story developments aren't just kept within the circle? Ideally, though, yeah, there would be immensely detailed world-building that we might not see all of but would be able to get a feel for from the consistency of what is shown, in which a character-driven plot progresses at a good pace (or a plot that brings out the...well, the character...of the characters, in a way that's consistent with individual character development and relationship dynamics.) Or some process or person that would have it all gel together, everyone's strengths compensating for one another's weaknesses, so that viewers won't catch quite as much frustrated potential.

I'd go with that, too. I mean, there was some demonstrated gray with the cold, controlling mother who yet "changed every diaper, soothed every fever, endured every tantrum..." And then some of Regina's reflecting on how Cora's parenting influenced how she messed up with Henry who then could have been key to messing up with everyone else. But the massacre tells me that evil is kind of abstract, as you said, not a horizon the writers think that they can go over...more like a placeholder, almost, like, "To redeem her, she needs to have done something wrong. What would be cool to do wrong that just gets the message through? Mass-murder of entire towns and attempted mass-murder of a village? Can do!" I think whatever got 2x17 ("Welcome to Storybrooke" a.k.a. Greg/Owen's backstory) would be interesting to examine. What was the creative process for the overarching story for which that episode was a main point? Who was tapdancing all through that episode? It was brilliant in some ways in how it explained Regina's motivations, but how it handled the return of Graham and the tragic fate of Owen's father is just...that's not gray so much as it's just confusing. Maybe I just don't have the moral philosophical range to parse that episode. Especially in light of the Regina adopting Henry flashbacks in 409. Mass-murder is evil and irredeemable of those unrepentant, but sometimes a million is a statistic. What weirds me out is the treatment of "one of the millions" that people actually can put a face to: Graham, Owen's Dad (sorry, keep forgetting his name but I remember him well!), and now Marion.

I want to forgive the writers for usually failing to make connections and character dynamics, so I want to say that all Hook really needs or wants right now is Emma. Although I don't know how much of how well he gels with other people is just a front: he does well drinking with the dwarves, chilling with Charming, not killing Belle, getting attempted-saved by Belle, getting saved by Belle again, and I mourned the loss of the vitriolic friendship with Regina. It's my headcanon that Hook now lives on Tinkerbell's sofa and they have totally platonic rum-and-absinthe Thursdays. Tink and Astrid or Ruby totally picked out his Land Without Magic clothes between his getting his hand back and the first date with Emma.

I mean that Rumple might not have been willing to let Belle die along with himself and the rest of Storybrooke when he thought that Neal was dead, because Belle was already (to his knowledge) dead. I can't help but contrast that with Hook, who was unwilling, uncharacteristically, to let the rest of Storybrooke die when he thought that Neal was dead. He pleaded with The Dark One Enabler of Shattered Sight Curse-Casters for the entire town, too. If they really wanted to demonstrate a double-villainy backslide like on The Prestige level, couldn't they have made Hook less of a puppy? The most Hook has done is flash his eyes in defiance and set his jaw. And make an incisive pun. Probably only that last bit.

That was Lacey, though. And even if Belle took it as evidence of Rumple's redemption, she still said that she loved the parts of him that belonged to the darkness, sometimes the best book has the dustiest cover... I don't know! The thing is, while I have serious doubts about Belle's perceptiveness as a character and consideration for other people...she did interrupt a ritual where Rumple was going to crush Hook's heart and channel the screaming souls of an entire convent into re-affirming his...autonomy, I guess, or something. So if all that registered, then she can't just let him run around being shady and playing Regina, Emma, and the next upstart magic-user to wreak havoc on the town. Rumple's magic has got to be neutered and he can't be around people. And the banishment Rumple got is probably better for everyone (including Rumple) than being Pandora-Boxed, or Urned, or Hatted. Or mirrored. Or MadHatted. I mean, it's not like Rumple volunteered to get into magic addiction therapy with Archie, like Regina had, and see how long that lasted even with Emma's support. I don't know if Belle would know that, and compare, like, uh-oh, can't be honest with how betrayed she feels if it's going to push Rumple back into his magic addiction... But, I think crossing Rumple over the town line was a good decision knowing what we (kinda sorta maaaybe) know about the magic system, community dynamics, and psychology of some types of characters in this show.

Maybe the Wolf who went after the three little pigs could be a different wolf from Red. More of King George might be good too. Mordred from Arthurian legend would fit right into the abandoned child sob story. I want the Jabberwocky to face down Sephiroth from Kingdom Hearts (okay, he first showed up in Final Fantasy VII, but Kingdom Hearts being a Disney-Squaresoft collaboration gives me hope.)

I would be very surprised if those scenes had any quality of emotional resonance, if the writers think that all CS Shippers want is 40 minutes of kissing and not actual character dynamics that develop with events.

I guess that the graveyard confession, plus imitating the iconic dance with the yellow gown and the bright blue tailcoat, was supposed to be the "D'aww...Rumple!" moment...and then the "You'll get over Emma just like you got over Milah" was supposed to be the, "Nooo don't remind us that he's evil!" moment...and then the walking him over the town line was supposed to be a "D'aww...Rumple!" moment. But maybe I'm just not the target audience because I had walked the plank off the HMS Rumbelle after Hook told Belle about Milah and Belle was just like, "Nooneenooo..."