Faemonic

Nah, Killian Jones has said and done some dastardly things: - challenging a cripple to a duel - homewrecking - killing Claude, probably - hitting/shooting Belle but I let this slide because he apologized and Belle accepted his apology - the outpost in post-apocalyptic fairy tale land had children in it that he watched Cora kill - stealing Aurora's heart but I let this slide because he gave it back instead of let it drop into a portal - torturing Archie - killing Blackbeard, probably - alluding to compromising women's sexual consent with alcohol but I let this slide because I think the other way around is more likely In other news...I said that I wouldn't watch this season because Frozen was such a huge cash grab and I doubted that they'd do anything with Hook who was the only reason I was watching the show anymore, and I'm glad that I started watching anyway because I actually like what they've done with Frozen. But if Hook dies (it would not surprise me especially lately, but) I totally would stop watching. Unless they brought Ruby back as a regular. I mean it this time.

If back in Tallahassee, it was Robert Sheehan playing Neal Cassidy, I would have been like, "That man has Dylan Schmid's hair. It's grown-up Baelfire!" right away. Granted, there's more problems with the character than the surprise. I mean, I doubt that Sheehan could have saved the character with the lines given. Heck, during the Captain-Swan-Thief Shipper Wars (wait, is that still ongoing?) a hypothetical was introduced where what if Colin and Michael had swapped roles, and one fan weighed in with, "I think Colin would have imbued the role with unspoken regret!" And I was, like, "Mayb...no. No, no. Nealfire left Emma in prison because Pinnocchio told him to. That is so preposterous that nothing can save it." Although without the beard, Colin and Dylan do sort of have the same chin and jawline.

Not that strange, if I recall, JMo and Sebastian Stan dated for a while. But that was indeed a strange thing to bring onscreen considering the situation. Apparently there's a ship of Belle and Jefferson, only because they had five seconds of screentime with each other at the end of Season 1. If I didn't ship Page Boy, I'd probably be on board with Emma and Jefferson. (Page Boy: Grace and Henry. I imagine their adventures later in life, like, "Hah, our parents' lives were wild. Let's live like normal college students now." Nope! Magic will happen to you! I imagine Heather Morris and Lerman Logan playing university-age Grace and university-age Henry but at the rate Henry's growning, Henry can play that.) With anything involving Neal and August, I can't help but blame the writers because I don't see character motivations in there...just actors trying to do their best with what they're given. Although maybe the director or editor could have used a take of Michael Raymond-James playing Neal not quite so smug at Emma if that exists, and just maybe that could have helped. I mean, he's Baelfire! I love Baelfire! What happened??

While I wish that the Land Without Magic would have continued to be real enough in this show, with logistics and paperwork and budget reports and due processes--just to contrast all the magic--I can also see why this episode didn't take a turn in that direction. I mean, Cora knows nothing about this non-feudal world full of technology...and she wants to have Regina wrapped around her little finger, and Regina wants to be there because that's like the only warmth and contact and love that Regina has hope for (rather than Henry's love, which is more like aimed for than hoped for, and only because Mama Cora said so.) In hindsight, though, especially with how the concept of "villainy" is treated much later...I wonder if Grown-Up Baelfire wasn't supposed to be written as wrong-minded? "I don't get closure, neither do you." Ouch! Harsh. Realistic. Refreshing.

I get that social media is supposed to be seen as this great marketing opportunity and to keep an ear to the fanbase, and it's just adorable when members of the official media deign or decide to mix with us mere members of fandom. Elatingly adorable. But, wow, somebody should have written up a Survivor's Handbook with an entire chapter dedicated to: Do Not Engage the Shipper Wars. Do. Not. Engage. The. Shipper. Wars.

I forgot who else broke it down really well about how in the earlier seasons, adultery was clearly A Bad Thing. So, Regina putting the moves on David was a clearly desperate effort to get him away from Mary Margaret when Katherine's curse-marriage was no longer sufficient. Now, though, Regina's the only one considering that Robin Hood is still married--and then continues with the crypt sex (that does too count as happening again), and encounters Mary Margaret cheering Regina on and providing irrational rationalizations. So, it's not only what Regina does, I think, that sparks the outrage...but the way the world of the show conforms to condoning it. One handy tip I read of recently (by Dan Olsen, a.k.a. The Foldable Human) is to semi-personify the work as a whole to create a sort of buffer between how the audience takes a "message" and the "opinion" that we can't actually pinpoint who's saying in a collaborative effort such as a television show. If Once Upon A Time were a person, what would zir opinion on adultery be? What about zir opinion on redemption? (Even if the kudos is granted to Regina, though, and Emma's supposed to be the main character but is usually the fish out of water or the foil more than the mood-setter... so, when I think of Once Upon A Time personified, I think of Snow.)

I like Emma, and I like Hook. I even liked them together as in together-together right before the kiss in Neverland. Now, though, there's very little chemistry between those two particular characters... which could actually be a good thing considering that Outlaw Queen is upheld as this Lancelot/Guenivere or Tristan/Iseult level of starcrossed greatness and I am so put off by it. Emma and Hook aren't being built up as that, except by the fandom, and I include myself in that because I was hoping that Emma kissing Hook's Zelena-cursed lips last season would evoke a True Love's Overriding Data Program even though they've only been around each other for a generous total of three months and knew each other as allies for, like, one. But now I'm just happy that they're happy. I go, "d'aww" rather than "squeeeee" at every moment between them because I feel like those moments weren't all that earned and aren't going to go anywhere necessarily. So, I actually wouldn't be horribly crushed if they broke up, either. I will be horribly crushed if Hook dies. (I'd be surprised and appalled if Emma did, because she's the main-est of main characters.) As Hook occupies the intersection between OUaT Hotties and Receivers of Emma Swan's Kiss of Death, though, I'm thinking in terms of when. Then again, I was wrong about Swan Thief being endgame, so, here's a quarter to Mary Margaret!

J.M. Barrie (author of Peter Pan) was friends with Robert Louis Stevenson (author of Treasure Island) so there was definitely a mention of Long John Silver in there as a nudgewink, but I can't remember if Blackbeard made a mention it in there too. Garett Hedlund is giving me Jason Isaacs vibes, which is good.

I'm guessing that the best place for Elsa to start looking for Anna is the place where Elsa already is. I don't know how much up to getting urned Elsa remembers, I mean, why didn't Ingrid get the rock trolls also wipe out Elsa's memory of Anna at all in the urn? But in any case, once Elsa got out, she struts around, knows that she should be with her sister, walls the town because she wants answers, finds people who actually met Anna (well, that one guy) and a way of tracking Anna down. I don't know if Bo-Peep's staff magic can traverse dimensions, but that's all they have to go on. Maybe Elsa was going to take the wall down so that she and Emma could go on a road trip following Bo Peep's staff. Since Elsa couldn't, and Ingrid obviously knows what happened but is making a bigger thing happen, then Elsa's got to face the DQ, then melt the wall, then find out where on earth or Misthaven or Aradelle Anna and Kristoff are. Basically, just because we know that Anna's frozen in Arandelle doesn't mean that Elsa knows or even would automatically go, "Okay! Let's take Bo-Beep's staff and find a bean hat mermaid shoes door portal to the same world as Arandelle and Misthaven!" Elsa might want to melt the ice wall first just in case, like, Zelena's version of The Dark Curse brought a chunk of Arandelle over too. There is a town in Quebec...where every character in that one film is trapped between two worlds, incidental victims of a powerful curse.

Oh, but that was handwaved back in the first season when only Henry, Emma, and August could come into town--and nobody could leave. Greg/Owen was the herald of some great big bad thing, and the Darling Hipster Hipster Darlings dodged a dome there. Basically, there were never deliveries of anything from outside with the truckers or shipment handlers just being memory-fogged or reasoning-fogged. Apparently Storybrooke achieved the isolationism that North Korea can only dream of. (Sorry to keep dragging in outside references, but:) "Bloody Torchwood!" (Okay, not that sorry.)

Tumblr does have a "says" section sort of, last I checked but I left because the commenting system really is just unwieldly. I do like to link to some fun, smart stuff: this OUaT essayist and these recaps, but with stuff like what retrograde linked, it's just, well--haters gonna hate. Hook-haters appear to have particular difficulty containing themselves, although that might just be my own sensitivity because I like Hook as a character, but it might also be because some Hook haters have particular difficulty containing themselves. And when that's just directed in general, even at the character who isn't real and so his feeling's can't actually get hurt*--then I'd take that as part of their own process of getting over whatever unpleasantness Hook stirs up, and everybody's certainly entitled to that. What else is fandom for? That, and the more positive manifestations of that. But when actual Hook fans are personally attacked for having a personal perspective that prefers a fictional character, or Colin O'Donoghue gets stalked and trolled on his chosen social networks just for doing his job, then I'd say we've got a problem more problematic than Hook. The same goes for any character fans or character anti-fans and do not get me started on the shipper wars. * unless what The Mad Hatter said was true about there being no fiction, only real-life reports in the wrong parallel dimension

This is what I love about fanfiction. Something like this can happen. Most TV series with logic flaws and massively missed opportunities, I try to remember that the showrunners have to meet deadlines and maybe don't have the freedom to crowdsource great ideas like these.

Maybe Will liked the outfits? Nah, seriously I thought it was a bit strange too. Maybe he'd forgiven Ana so thoroughly for cheating on him (essentially) with the Red King that he'd forgive it of anyone? More likely no one in the writer's room felt like writing anything that condemned adultery. Snow was so chipper about it. Later it's just, "Things are not that simple!" But, yeah, they're not that simple, but this is not a good thing Snow and you are chipper.

I would despair if he didn't. More likely to be Ruby, though--she's been a ninja since Season 2. I love Hook, but I generally prefer ninjas.

I used to have this theory that Fairytale Land had actually developed a societal system where systemic misandry was possible. Cora's backstory with Jonathan The Slut-Shaming Cad blew that theory to more smithereens than Belle and Mulan did just by saying "but women don't get to / aren't allowed", but in Rumpel's case I still don't know. He comes off to me as token exception that proves the rule in who tends to have The Powerrr in either world. Check the Nealfire gravestone confession: he feels most like a man when he's mothering; Fairytale Land genders are sure different than the ones I've been taught. It doesn't look good that Rumpel clearly got some unnecessary measure of joy out of killing a powerless, contrite Milah; a powerless, contrite Tamara; a powerless, contrite Zelena; attempted gleeful murder of a powerless, imprisoned Regina and recently a clueless seeking-a-power-downer Emma... but is that misogyny as we Land Without Magic folk understand it? (This is waaay broad, but, I think, a relevant consideration when it comes to what can influence relationship dynamics.) (Not one anyone running the show was likely to make, though, so, there's that.) It could just be that there aren't that many other guys in power for Rumpel to get a thrill out of killing, like Pan, Old Man Mickey Mouse, Sheriff Nottingham maybe... Moe, at a stretch... that's all I can think of. King George? I mean, I love Hook, but next to Rumpel I can't count the pirate as someone "in power"...ever. Hook trips and falls into power sometimes if he's lucky, picks himself up, dusts himself off. But back to Rumbelle. Ooh, I had a thought that Rumpel's thing is more psychological than systemic, grr, my mind won't keep still on this but whatever I'll leave the paragraphs above as is. But Rumpel doesn't feel innately worthy of having Belle, so if she outright left him then Rumpel probably wouldn't get all entitled-grouchy about it and try to trap Belle emotionally with a baby like he did with Milah and Cora... but that means he's seeking every other avenue to keep Belle's light in his life, other than being honest, and other than even trying to be less of a control freak megalomaniac. Rumpel's got centuries of trauma and conditioning that he, personally, is cowardly and unworthy and evil. I think he should see Archie about that, but then again everybody on this show should see Archie about something and they don't. She seemed to get this when she first opened up the library, and Rumple went to do the Clean Break but she asked him out of a hamburger date instead. On the other hand, I think I get what you're getting at. Rumple had to go to Nealfire's headstone to ask for the strength to do the right thing. Belle was right there, living, breathing, and... Rumple can't see her and sincerely pledge to do the right thing?? I lean more towards that Belle does know about imperfection. She came clean with her knowledge about Anna, apologized for abusing the dagger, and went with her heart instead of her head on Rumple's machinations with the Dagger (which is too bad, because Belle's supposed to be brainy, and if she used her brain for a split second there then she'd be right.) So, I think she can deal with imperfections, process them in herself... but in a relationship, it takes two, and Rumpel's not fully present and committed the way that Belle is. (On the other hand, there are some glaringly naive moments that I can't get over. Belle finding out about Milah and condemning Hook to rotten-heartedness, for example. That was just... I didn't even know what to make of Belle then. It didn't not happen, but it's more of a hiccup to me than a, "Yep! Can't deny it! That's Belle, all right!")

No human rights violations going on there, I'm sure. He's been properly mirandized and siphoning Storybrooke taxes for his upkeep and everything. There might be some hope of parole. Or an underground-wandering Maleficent feeding on his soul in order to regain human form. Yikes, at least in the asylum people are bound to remember to slide a food tray in there once in a while. And now I'm wondering if Storybrooke has a statute of limitations for murder so Rumpel's technically in the clear after 28 to a couple hundred years. Maybe Tamara's death ain't no thing because Neverland doesn't have an extradition treaty. Or... laws... And then there's the consent issue that won't die: Graham's heart and curse memories. At this point I think Storybrooke needs, like, Welcome To Nightvale level of governance. At least Snow is trying with her fireside chats.

Storybrooke is doomed. It usually is, but wow. That. That's a giant problem. Small mercies.

I generally agree. However... - Emma detained Will for, like, two days with the charge of "ruining my date" which would have been shady even if said date hadn't beaten him up. So, that's a maybe not to me for Emma heading law enforcement reform in Storybrooke. - Snow's mayoral pardon was played as cute but was several shades of shady! - Apparently there are no property crimes or domestic violence calls. + Perhaps pockets of Storybrooke defaulted to their respective feudal lords (except for George.) (And maybe Moe... or I don't know, maybe Moe's a halfway decent ruler but an awful father.) Or Mother Superior just goes around giving people the stinkeye to keep them brave, truthful, and unselfish... something. - Wait, isn't Abigail/Katherine a lawyer? - About Hook, no, he has no faced formal charges of assault, battery, conspiracy, attempted murder etc. in a jury of his peers. And I don't hold with Fate being an arbiter of justice, because that's not anything like society's due process. But he did apologize to Belle. + Archie though. + Will though. - Wait, isn't evil King George the district attorney? + Wait, isn't evil King George evil? + Wait, isn't Rumpel also knowledgeable or at least active somehow sometimes in legal capacity? + Wait, isn't Rumpel also kind of sort of morally bankrupt? +++ Katherine, help!!

Great post! Sums up quite well why I love Hook as a character. He's narratively interesting, although in this show it's become a bit of a drag how the story drives the characters instead of the characters driving the story, I don't know if it's whoever's writing Hook's lines or if it's the way Colin says them, but it's like any distance or barrier between character and plot completely collapses into the Killian Jones singularity. I completely understand how his pushiness, violence, and sexual objectification of women put some people off so much that Hook has ruined the show for them, and for a lot of people he's irredeemable as a character and a person... but frankly by the time the third season came around Hook was the only reason I was watching. He plays off everyone really interestingly: Rumpel, Cora, individual members of Team Princess, Regina, Belle, Snow and Charming, Grumpy, Pan, Ariel, even Sneezy in the background. Sadly, he hasn't gotten the chance to show that versatility much since season 2. And I think I mentioned on the Villains thread how much I looked forward to more Rumpel and Hook scenes that they just fall a little too flat for me now--but it's great to have them at all! Hook though, with Gold, is I dare say uncharacteristically outclassed? Hook used to be able to hold his own, but now it's like, wow, Rumpel... quit kicking the puppy... The Floor was a kinder partner to Hook than that after all these episodes.

I bet dollars to donuts that was exactly what happened!

So, over at the S04.E08 thread, I mentioned that I enjoyed this inferred sort of vitriolic friendship between Regina and Hook. Obviously, the showrunners don't share my interest keenly enough to develop that, or even maintain what made it through, which is fine. And viewer's headcanons would be like, "Regina and Hook? They are aware of one another's existence...and that's it." Which is reasonable. But allow me to play you a little text slideshow of the moments between them that I enjoyed, perhaps with Green Day's "Time of Your Life" playing in the background because that always plays in the background of every slideshow ever made. - Two conversations about moral philosophy, one initiated by Regina like what Reg, did Rumpel shoo you off so that he could do his wardrobe change, but you still had some emo in you yet? - Hook's the one who snaps Regina out of her post sensei-death funk. "Shall we all start preparing our souls? Mine's going to take some time." - Hook addresses Regina as "Your majesty" even sarcastically. I mean, contrast that with how he talks about Snow. "Milady"? Later he says, "The Queen and Snow" when Regina isn't even there. Wasn't Snow White the Queen? Princess Regent, at least? Excuse your honorable Mr. Jones esquire or whatever, but I don't know how the peerage works in your world. - Regina told Hook about how The Un-Curse worked. Couldn't that have been announced at a royal press conference with a podium, or whatever the Enchanted Forest equivalent of it is? Or did people really have to come up to Regina and ask, and only Hook was curious enough? - Regina bringing up Hook's pining to Emma, once in Neverland, again before magic lessons. When did Regina start to care about anybody's feelings? Even with Regina's vitriol, like, "I don't do rum!" and "I haven't forgotten about the anti-magic cuff, Pirate." There's that dynamic there that I considered disproportionately entertaining considering that it was just a sprinkle of little events. And I miss it.

Your Mileage May Vary. Gonna take my nonromantic Hooked Queen case to the Villains thread, though. :)

Regina wasn't always like that. She was ready to run off with the stable boy. The slogan for Outlaw Queen was supposedly "second chances": Regina to find love again after Daniel's death, and Robin to find love again after Marian's death. But the thing is, if that's the only criteria, then that could then apply to anyone. Regina after Daniel's death and Hook after Milah's death. Robin after Marian's death and Ruby after Peter's death. Or Regina and Mulan. Or Robin and the dad of Hansel and Gretel! I don't like to measure relationships with "what does one lover have to offer the other?" but yeah I wonder if something maybe more specific traits would have been the key to real romantic chemistry. I thought Roland fulfilling the little boy shaped hole in Regina's heart would be the thing, too... but nope! She's totally over the jealous possessiveness of having to share Henry and not angsting anymore over the year she missed where Henry grew half a foot and now looks like about 17 years old.

Yeah, but in my headcanon, Regina used to know that Hook was a person... so would blame him as a person and not just an abstract Karma Casino chip that Emma got when Regina didn't. Of course, that latter and more simple explanation is probably what's actually on the screen. I could remove my shattered contact lenses, but I like what I'm projecting better. If Elsa had been searching for Anna instead of convincing Emma to love herself, then Gold would have a fully-charged wizard's hat by now.

I loved, loved, loved the idea of a renewed rivalry between Rumpel and Hook, because before Neal died the Rumpel-Hook-Baelfire trifecta was the most interesting relationship dynamic to me and this was never explored. Carlyle and O'Dono seem to be pretty good friends too, so I got a vicarious bit of contentment thinking, "D'aww, they get to work together a lot more! Yay!" But...I don't know. It seems a bit shallow now? Like, they hate each other, and we know this, and we know why. It's furthering the plot, but the characters aren't changing for it, and they're not interestingly regressing. I mean, the way Rumpel brought up Milah was just bland. Hook, who I used to admire for how cleverly he could manage to be annoying and survive being annoying to people waaay more powerful than he...well, now he's just outclassed on every level. I like the scenes with Rumpel and The Snow Queen, but other than that... it's like I somehow get the feeling that all the beloved baddies are put in cubicles somehow for some reason? Not only are they not getting at each other even when they're so obviously literally getting at each other, but they're so isolated. I don't know how to describe it. It's like the villains are less alive around each other than they used to be.