BabySpinach

So Jared overreacted. He'd already known from a virtual con with Jensen that the latter was working on something SPN-related, so the big "crime" was that Jared, who had no creative stake in the show, learned of the actual concept the same time as everyone else, when only the people directly involved in its development knew about it. He went to social media as his first impulse and set the tone by expressing how "gutted" and devastated he was instead of texting Jensen like a damn adult. Also called Robbie Thompson a traitorous coward over just the idea of a show that hadn't even been greenlit. And what absolute hogwash that he claims he "tries to stay off social media." Just makes the previous "explanation" look even phonier and more insincere.

Do you owe it to the person behind you to hold the door rather than let it slam in their face? No, but you should still do it. The world can't run on everyone submitting to their worst, most selfish impulses by default unless they "owe" it to someone to be nice. That's how you get obnoxiously entitled Karens running around. On one side, Jared got his feelings hurt. On the other, practically everyone with even a tangential connection to the project got attacks and death threats and the funding for the project itself may have even been impacted. The latter was not a proportionate or reasonable consequence for the former.

Funny how Jared is the only one in the entire cast and crew that would need this extra precaution and consideration so that he doesn't "act out". The rest can be relied on to be professional adults, including Misha and Jensen. Just not him. I don't see anyone crying for Misha on his behalf, even though he likely didn't know either. No one's bagging on the CW, who obviously agreed with and arranged this whole thing without telling their "golden boy". The only reason the hate-train went for Jensen is because he was singled out and thrown under the bus by that same golden boy. I agree: Jensen not telling Jared is a complete non-issue, especially since we still don't know the reason. ETA: The crux of the argument in Jared's favor is whether his hurt feelings were enough justification to put his "friends" on public blast, knowing from past experience exactly what his crazy fans would do as a result. And no, they weren't.

This behavior from Jared didn't happen in a vacuum. He has a history of airing his petty grievances on social media and watching his fans swarm the apparent source of his unhappiness (who were service workers more than once). When you have millions of followers, your responsibilities in regards to social media are far removed from those of Joe Schmoe venting into the void. The reality is that crazy fans will always exist. So what is easier and safer, keeping your damn mouth shut about issues that absolutely do not need to be made public, or somehow convincing every single crazy fan that follows you to not overreact on your behalf? Jared has done this enough times before that he knew exactly what would happen if he pressed "Tweet." And given that he did hash this out with Jensen later in private, it just makes him look even more like a petty, impulsive, inconsiderate, self-centered child. He didn't need to involve un-informed outsiders in this personal drama that none of us have proper context to. End of story. If something contentious and personal doesn't absolutely need to be posted online and shared with strangers, then it shouldn't be. That's just common sense and general decency. ETA: I saw someone else put it this way: even disregarding Jared's massive following, if you have an issue with someone you work with, you don't CC everyone in your office and force them to witness your personal beef. And Jensen is supposed to be his close friend, not just a co-worker.

Fancy that, this personal issue got hashed out privately without a problem! Oh, but then Jared wouldn't have gotten all that coddling and validation and "love"...

We've only gotten Jared's side of this, and we'll likely never get Jensen's because he probably won't respond publicly. I don't see any point in criticizing him for not telling Jared because we know nothing about the circumstances as of now. But we can criticize Jared for his Twitter tantrum, since that was actually made for us to react to.

If the roles were switched and it was Jensen who didn't know about the prequel, none of us would know either because Jensen doesn't air his dirty laundry out to the public. So, moot point. This issue did not need the fandom's involvement in any shape or form, and we don't have enough context (nor should we) to make judgements on Jensen's reasons for withholding.

I agree about Lucifer. It's IMO a very tropey genre show that distinguishes itself via great execution, especially in the Netflix seasons. Unlike what I'd grown accustomed to with SPN, Lucifer has yet to truly disappoint me and has consistently given thoughtful, generous, and appreciative treatment to the main character and actor. It also finished off its fifth season without pulling a Swan Song on its lead, and certain elements of the finale just embittered me further toward SPN's Dean vs. Samifer and the stupid marionette version of Michael vs. Lucifer. Jensen and Dean deserved at least the caliber of treatment that Tom Ellis has gotten.

Well yeah, because Lucifer is the ultimate misunderstood scapegoat. That's a pretty important aspect of his story. And unless the argument is that the praise/worship of earthly religious figures actually matters in any tangible way, which we haven't seen to be the case, I don't see its relevance to the question of whether Lucifer or Amenadiel are better suited for the position of God. And the only religious figure who tried to assassinate Lucifer was a murderous, lying zealot, so I don't see how that'd reflect poorly on the former. Not to mention Father Frank took a shine to him, too.

The way that Lucifer's journey to godhood unfolded was definitely the aspect of 5B that intrigued and surprised me the most. When he first gets the idea in 5.13, it's framed as yet another of his ridiculous schemes that seems destined to be proven wrong a la season 3. But then 5.14 onwards take a surprisingly serious approach to him becoming God, and he's supported by those around him rather than ridiculed and made to look completely stupid for even considering it. We've got Amenadiel in his corner, Chloe with reservations not about Lucifer's worthiness but about what it would mean for their relationship, Maze with her request, and even Dan is okay with it. Lucifer doesn't focus on the aquarium case as he usually would, but he still cares and contributes enough so that his becoming God isn't framed as this terrible thing that would wreck the status quo and therefore be unacceptable. His multi-tasking isn't just about him being a frivolous dick for no reason, but also a work-life balance issue. Chloe then acknowledges that this is objectively more important than Lucifer helping her out with crimes, and decides to go all-in to support him. And of course it's stated multiple times that Lucifer is technically doing this for the wrong reasons, but this doesn't lead to him giving up upon this realization. Instead, his motivation being love and the desire to prove himself worthy of it is actually framed as a strength, or at the very least not the worst motivation one could have. And then he does find an additional reason: to fix a broken system and give Dan (and everyone else) a chance at salvation. So Lucifer's goal to become God is no longer frivolous or misguided at all, which I honestly didn't see coming after the way it was initially set up. But I like that Lucifer's hatred of the unjust was reintroduced to serve as a major motivator. We all know that Amenadiel is a lot more tactful and considerate than Lucifer (with the occasional regression to his former angelic pompousness), but I think the show has consistently established that he is a follower, not a leader. He naturally defers to and seeks out authority figures, and gravitates far more toward following orders than giving them. Living a meaningful existence of simplicity and humility on his own terms after eons of being God's Perfect Soldier, and supporting the ascension of the brother he once saw as beneath him, is a fitting conclusion to his character arc IMO. As for how Lucifer actually became God, the most likely answer is that he self-actualized it. Like Chloe lampshaded earlier in the episode when she dared him to magically feel worthy, his self-sacrifice to bring Chloe back was what finally made it click. Him feeling worthy of her love, and being able to express it, was equivalent to him feeling worthy of godhood. He did have other good reasons to want to be God, but this was the key to making it happen. And while that does put Chloe on a pretty damn high pedestal, this explanation is the most consistent with the established story/themes of 5B.

I was mostly on Lucifer's side in the family dinner scene. Michael was the snivelling suck-up, Amenadiel had regressed back to the obedient daddy's boy, and Linda was too busy being uncomfortable. Lucifer was the only one who could ask the hard questions and speak the hard truths that'd been stewing in the text and subtext since season 1. I don't think Dad not getting a nice family dinner is the end of the world, especially when his children at the table had legitimate grievances with each other (Amenadiel and Lucifer vs Michael) that he refused to acknowledge. He is/was a harsh, neglectful father, which even Amenadiel admitted, and he can stand to not get his way once in a while. Plus, since God's supposed to be omnipotent and all, he should have known what would happen if he tried to force a friendly sit-down and pretend that nothing was wrong.

What tied this entire episode together was the last line. 🎉🎉 For the show's first F bomb! 🎉🎉 This ep will probably improve on rewatch, since the first time through I was just impatient for more development in the main plot. But man, what a wild, wacky ride...

I'll need some time to stew after binging all 8 eps at once, but I think my overall impression is a positive one. A LOT of ground was covered this season. Lucifer wanting to become God was not a direction I saw coming, but I think I liked it. It led to reconciliation with Dad, then Dad with Mum, and showed us that Lucifer has come such a long way that he is now worthy of the mantle of new God. But Lucifer feeling that he wasn't capable of love, and that he wasn't worthy of Chloe, felt contrived. I didn't like him putting her back on that pedestal after we saw their dynamic mature in season 4. Their relationship drama was really wearing thin... at least this finale will shake things up for them moving forward. Like I feared, Maze and Luci got yet another clean slate and offscreen reconciliation. At this point, that's just what their dynamic is, I guess. She scapegoats and tries to kill him out of misdirected anger, he forgives her unconditionally. It's unsatisfying, but I'm also glad she seems done with her backstabbing ways for good. Fingers crossed. And say what you want, but at least this finale fight was miles better than the Michael/Lucifer mid-air equivalent in Supernatural. The flight and wings actually looked pretty good, and there was only one shot where I felt the CGI was distracting. Oversaturated color grading, though. The pacing did feel a bit off, too. The two episodes back-to-back focused on Dan then Linda were pretty slow for me, and I just wanted them to get back to the celestial stuff. Then like a hundred things got crammed into the final episode and it was all pretty chaotic. Chloe dies, then gets brought back, Lucifer dies, then comes back, all within like five minutes! I'm glad we'll be getting another season. Ending the show on Lucifer becoming God without exploring it at all would have been pretty unsatisfying. And why is it that we still haven't learned why Hell doesn't need a warden anymore???

The fact that his wings are even visible is weird, lol. But I'm loving the singular and indisputable central placement + size!

I have to say that a beard that size makes his amazing jawline disappear and his overall face look more bottom-heavy than it is, but that hair is amazing. If only they'd let Dean switch it up on the show like Jensen does...

A series of pieces I did for Dean Winchester, King of the Cosmos! A tribute to his strong personal ties with Death, the Divine, and the Infernal.

I've just finished my rewatch (stopped after s11 because not only is it a vastly better ending, but fuck Dabb) and that's exactly what kept running through my head the whole time.

Having Death be Sam's projection is much better for both characters. The real Death barely spared Sam a glance and they shared zero significant lines, but we're supposed to buy that he was actually fawning over Sam the whole time he was doing favors, delegating tasks, and having interesting conversations with his brother, for whom he nursed an obvious underlying--if grumpy--fondness throughout? It's so ridiculous it's laughable, and makes Sam look like a Super Sue. Only the most starry-eyed sycophantic fangirls would take that seriously and run with it. The rest of us would scoff and roll our eyes for a multitude of good reasons.

On a related note, I'm struck by how we've pretty much never had a scene of Sam feeling remorse/guilt/shame alone ie. without any potentially performative element to it. We've had plenty for Dean with his drinking and throwing furniture and punching mirrors etc. when he's on his own and therefore absolutely genuine in his feelings. But Sam? The only time we've seen him express guilt is verbally, either with other people or with his own mental projections (and even with the latter he's often arguing and trying to justify himself). And when Dean feels guilty, he's visibly wrecked. When Sam has done something terrible and is supposed to feel guilty, he pretty much carries on as normal and only briefly flashes a puppy-dog look (or a pissy one) when people bring up what he did. Eventually, it all starts to feel a bit phony, at least to me, when it's mostly tell and very little show. It wouldn't have solved everything, but what a difference it would have made if, for instance, we saw Sam after drinking demon blood for the first time gagging into the sink, then staring at his reflection with disgust. Or in the episode after he choked Dean nearly to death, looking at his hands and painfully flashing back to that moment. Or, after he freed Lucifer, suddenly collapsing in a locked bathroom under the sudden weight of everything he's done, then re-emerging as if nothing had happened. Small, raw scenes like that would've been so effective and perhaps even softened him to a tolerable level, but Kripke had his Sam goggles on and probably took for granted that the audience would sympathize with his self-insert without needing to put in any of that extra work. Then the rest of the writers/showrunners followed suit.

Well Crowley wasn't actively feeding Dean's addiction or sleeping with him to control him. Dean never trusted Crowley like Sam trusted Ruby, and openly used him for his own gain and tossed him to the wayside the rest of the time. Again, this is why Dean "did it better" than Sam and why he came off as more sympathetic. Sure, Dean taking the Mark was reckless. But it was sure less braindead that sucking up blood because a demon told you to, and keeping up that habit for months. The act of drinking blood from a human body is monstrous, as the show had clearly established by that point, and it made Sam look like a dumbass with no instincts, despite him being a hunter for over half his life. Again, my argument is that Dean came off better because his choices and the context behind them were more reasonable/sympathetic, not that Dean is as pure as the driven snow. Dean declared that he was the boss one time, then for the rest of season 10 he never claimed or acted that way again. Demon!Dean is on the same level as Soulless!Sam, so I don't count what he said as a demon. On the other hand, Sam's ego issues formed the entire backbone of his demon blood arc. His justifications to himself and to others about his "tainted" blood and how he was saving people were far from his only motivation, or even the majority of it: 4.14 "Dean, you're so weak and whiny, I'm a better and stronger hunter than you are." 4.16 "Dean can't get what he needs from Alistair because he's just not strong enough after Hell." (As if raw strength and power were the be-all-end-all to success.) 4.21 Mary, his "comforting" vision: "Dean is too weak to comprehend what you're doing; you're right and he's wrong. :')" Ruby, fluffing Sam up after having had sex with him: "You're a hero, you're going to save the world, I'm so sorry that Dean just doesn't understand. :(((" Sam, mockingly to Dean: "Right, the angels think it's you." Plenty of proof here that Sam's hubris and desire to be powerful and stronger than his brother fueled much of his actions and decisions, given the brand of praise and encouragement that Sam was clearly receptive to. Besides, the climax of a story is usually when the actual truths come out. And Sam's snotty, self-satisfied expression when he used his mojo was visual evidence of him clearly enjoying power for its own sake. Sam has spent probably 5x more words and energy bemoaning his status as a "freak" than Dean has ever given to his self-esteem issues. And getting annoyed by that is like getting annoyed with someone who compulsively apologizes all the time. That behavior is usually rooted in something harmful in their psyche, possibly in an abusive past, and just telling someone to get over it is not going to work. It's very realistic that Dean wouldn't move past his self worth issues no matter how many external sources told him otherwise; true healing from this would start from within, which he's almost never had the opportunity to do given all the world-threatening messes he's had to clean up and the unwarranted guilt that kept piling on.

Ok, I have to hard disagree here. Dean and Sam in their respective falls to darkness did not do the "same things." Sam willingly engaged in repeated acts of cannibalism for many months. Dean did not, and if he'd done some other objectively monstrous act as part of the Mark of Cain arc, I guarantee he would have come across much stupider and less sympathetic. Sam made a series of sketchy decisions while Dean just made the one and was stuck dealing with the consequences. Sam could have cleaned himself up at any time if he really wanted to, while Dean was saddled with the Mark no matter what. A big part of Sam's motivation was in proving himself as a better and stronger hero than Dean, but Dean had no such hang-ups about his brother or any of his loved ones, nor did the question of his strength/worthiness ever come up as a source of insecurity. Furthermore, Dean never complained about being held back by Sam nor ever labored under the delusion that he was some great, misunderstood hero. He also never once thought of the Mark as an indicator of his innate superiority. (These are all canon claims that Sam made in season 4 re: his demon blood). He didn't pursue some lofty agenda behind his brother's back, either. So yeah, I actually agree that Dean "did it better". Not because the narrative awarded him just for the hell of it, but because his written actions/behavior/motivation actually warranted milder consequences. It's the same concept as a drunk driver hitting someone deserving more fallout than a driver whose tire blew out on a nail and swerved into someone by accident. (On a shallower level, I was so done with Sam's endless self-absorption and navel-gazing over being a freak. Dean never disappeared up his own ass like that and only focused on dealing with his present situation. Plus, Sam's snotty, self-satisfied expression while using his powers just grated the hell out of me.) Dean took a magical mark from a benign demon who'd been keeping to himself for centuries, had chosen to retire of his own free will, and had shown the capacity for humanity. Why would that merit world-ending consequences of the same level as Sam powering up via cannibalism, using the abilities that were given to him by his mortal enemy and apocalypse-zealot Azazel, and also trying his damndest to prove himself as the big savior of the world when literally everyone but Ruby was telling him to stop? Sam isn't some separate entity from the story getting "sullied" by the writers if his character throughout most of the show has consistently been written to do terrible things for inadequate/unsympathetic reasons. Even Kripke's Sam in season 4 was by and large a wretched, petty, arrogant person who called his own brother weak and whiny for being traumatized by Hell (in 4.16 and 4.21, not just 4.14 under the siren's influence). I can absolutely understand hating the direction that the writers constantly took with Sam, and perhaps not giving him enough POV to better rationalize it all, but his actions and behavior as written were fully deserving of that framing, and certainly not equivalent to Dean's. So yeah, if we tallied up the brothers' respective bad choices/actions and the motivations and circumstances behind them, Dean would absolutely come out on top. We can argue the injustice and unfairness of this apparent imbalance all we want, but I'll never be convinced that Dean and Sam's respective screw-ups were ever on the same moral standing within the written story, or that Dean's comparatively milder consequences were undeserved or proof of a double standard.

Well, it's spelled out pretty clearly in the pilot that Sam (and John) was the one who chose to cut off contact with his family, not Dean (Dean: If I'd called, would you have picked up?). At least, there's less evidence for the other way around. And no, I don't believe that anyone here is arguing that Sam going to college is related to any interpretations of him being abusive. I do believe there are other natures of abuser besides "scary and violent," but I'm not an expert, so I won't wade into those waters any further. Still a dick move to cut off the brother who raised you, shielded you, and sacrificed his own dreams for you, though. Dean, who's devoted his life and soul to his family out of duty rather than desire, would reasonably be pissed at that. And, as the finale apparently told us, he was caustic and jerkish during their reunion as a defense mechanism against Sam's likely rejection. I'm not sure the relevance of this point. People were arguing that Dean didn't need Sam, which IMO is valid. Him needing Sam alive is entirely different. Dean was happy to sell his soul for Sam's life while only getting a year with him, because Sam being topside, even if not with Dean, was good enough. He let Sam freely choose between Amelia or hunting, which was a much greater courtesy than Sam's ultimatum regarding Benny. He made that terribly depressing speech in 8.14 about dying a dumb grunt and Sam living a long apple-pie life without him. He basically sees Sam as a parent would; he wants him to be happy and healthy, regardless of what that would look like. In other words, it's not a selfish or possessive attachment, which is what they're referring to when they say that Dean doesn't need Sam.

Chest, shoulders, back... 😵

There's no question that even with the bones of the finale still intact there could have been many, many improvements made to it. We'd probably be here all day listing them out. I'm just glad that Dean wasn't saddled with Sam's ending and vice versa. On a more detached, meta level, Dean's character fared better out of the two, IMO. That's the only bit of comfort I can take from the finale, so I'll take it! 😬

I do think that what comes across on the screen is at least somewhat different to what was intended. For one thing, Dean dying in the series finale pretty much ensured that both the episode and the show's ending would mostly revolve around him. After his death, the entire next half of Sam's life, which looked to be around forty years, was sped through in a minutes-long montage. The show that we cared about died along with Dean; Sam's remaining years were pretty much irrelevant to it. I can guarantee that a good portion of the viewing audience were just waiting for Sam to finally croak and rejoin his brother while the montage ran, which doesn't come across as a particularly favorable framing of the top-billed and supposed "main character". Dean was the one who got the speech about Heaven's reformation and how it'd mostly been done on his behalf (the Heaven he "deserved"). He was ultimately more connected to the cosmic side of things than Sam, who puttered through a Regular Joe life and apparently accomplished nothing significant again. Now that I've gotten some distance from the finale, I realize that Dean going out memorably and impactfully is at least preferable to lingering on as the normie husband of Blurry Wife and father of Sam Jr. who is never as happy as he deserves to be because he misses his brother too much. Imagine poor Dean, who's only ever wanted his family together, suffering decades of grief and pain that he doesn't remotely deserve, becoming stagnant and irrelevant until he gradually fades away. That may have actually been more depressing and insulting to his character, if his and Sam's places had been switched. Not to mention all the eye-rolly Saint Sammy nonsense that would have inevitably accompanied the switch. And this is just me working with what we've got. Obviously, a finale I actually liked would have turned out way different for both Sam and Dean (and I will never get over how Dean was cruelly cheated out of a long life of freedom and being loved and finally loving himself). But at this point, I'm glad to examine alternate perspectives to the garbage we were served.