yellowfred

So, I'm definitely fully on board the "Glenn's not dead" train. From the looks of it, all the guts we saw being pulled out were from right below Glenn's head and, since they looked a lot like a small intestine, I'm guessing they're Nicolas'.

See, I feel like it's Quentin, just because I think they've run out of storyline for him. Having him as the antagonist trying to hunt the team down has already gotten old and I'm not sure they could ever really go back to having him as their law enforcement connection (plus, I think Laurel in the DA's office more or less covers that role). Also, it looks like next week will probably (hopefully) be the end of Oliver trying to get his approval.

Does he need donations, though? He's running unopposed in an election that would have happened months ago if it weren't for the fact that absolutely no one wanted the job. I mean, I get throwing a rally to say that he's running, but spending money to actively campaign seems a bit superfluous under the circumstances.

They should have gone with Nyssa.

Yeah, the way I read the scene where they decide to put Sara in the Lazarus Pit was basically: Malcolm: So, I've decided that I'll let you use the Lazarus Pit on Sara. Thea: You just told me that the pit turns people into crazy murderers, why would I do that to my friend Sara? Malcolm: So, we're doing this, right? Laurel: Yep. Thea: Wait, what? Laurel: Just let me hug you. Thea might not have been against it as vehemently as Nyssa, but I don't get the impression that she was really in favor of it. I've actually been thinking about that a lot. Like, it kind of looks like Sara instinctively goes after Thea, out of a whole room full of people, which seems to be because she knows Thea killed her. But then, when Thea came out of the Lazarus Pit, she instinctively attacked Oliver, not Ra's. Plus, her blood lust thing apparently got a lot worse when Oliver came back. So, maybe it wasn't even Thea that Sara was going to attack, maybe it was Laurel, who was standing right behind Thea, meaning that the "person who hurt" them isn't the one who killed them, but the one who decided to put them in the Lazarus Pit.

See, the thing that particularly bothers be about that is that I'm not sure if it's what the writer's intended, but it seems like a lot of Nyssa and Laurel's "friendship" has been based around what works for Laurel. Like, the first time they really interacted at Sara's grave, Laurel was a complete jerk to Nyssa. Then, she was slightly nicer to her when she realized that Nyssa wanted to kill Malcolm and Oliver wouldn't (gah, still bitter about that). Then, a while later, they have this nice scene where they're reminiscing about Sara, because Laurel felt bad about the fact that she couldn't remember Sara's laugh, and it seemed like Nyssa's story made her feel better, but that didn't stop her from attacking Nyssa the moment she saw she was out of her cage (yep, still bitter about that one too). Then, Nyssa comes back more permanently and starts training Laurel and it seems like they've got a nice friendship going, but then once she's gone, we don't see Laurel worrying about her or mourning her, since she should reasonably think she's dead. Instead, she's with everyone else worrying about Oliver going dark. When they show up in Nanda Parbat, we don't see her relieved that Nyssa's alive or thinking about how Nyssa feels about her forced marriage to Oliver (ugh, this one too). Then, this episode, we have Laurel mad at her for destroying the Lazarus Pit, even though it's mainly to spite Malcolm and doesn't affect Sara's resurrection in the least. It kind of gives the impression that that relationship was more convenient for Laurel than it was meaningful. On a related side note, as I wrote that paragraph, I was reminded of how bitter I am about the way the writers have been treating Nyssa since last season. I would really like for her to go one entire episode without being tied up, caged, or otherwise imprisoned.

From what I understand about meta humans from The Flash, you're about 50 times more likely to get powers if you were already a criminal beforehand (it's like physics or something), so he might have already been killing people with thrown objects and now he's realized that he can produce his own.

I have to admit, the ridiculousness of the way they've been writing Laurel this season is a lot easier to enjoy now that I'm not constantly thinking "they killed Sara for this."

So, I'm not really a die hard Original Team Arrow fan (like, I like them and I think their relationship is important, but I've also liked most of the additions to the team and what they've brought to the overall dynamic), but I really enjoyed seeing them in this episode. Laurel's reaction to her newly resurrected, non-verbal, basically feral little sister came across as very Stepford to me. Like others have mentioned, I'm seriously concerned right now that she's having some sort of psychological break. Her whole "dad's gonna be so happy to see you" while Sara was chained up and snarling at her was one of the most legitimately disturbing things I've seen in recent memory. Also, the line about Thea being the same way at first seemed like it was ADR'd, so I wonder if it was an attempt to make Laurel seem less delusional. If that was their aim, I don't think it worked. On a side note, seeing Sara do her signature three point landing/hair flip combo was weirdly comforting. I wonder if that's the spirit thing Laurel was talking about? Or maybe she just knows to do that in her bones? It's anybody's guess. Unsurprisingly, Malcolm Merlyn continues to be the worst and I continue to be conflicted about who I most want to see kill him (Thea pulled ahead this week, but Sara and Nyssa are still both strong contenders).

I think that's definitely what the writers were thinking when they came up with this storyline, but, as seems to be their pattern with Laurel, they didn't think through the details. Ideally, they would show her being fully aware of the risks but taking them anyway. Instead, they show her not even acknowledging the risks. I'm sure we're supposed to assume it's coming from a place of love, but mostly she just reminds me of the old couple in "The Monkey's Paw," right down to the gross corpse that no one wanted to see. It really is amazing what a little self awareness (from both the character and the writers) can do for a character that the audience doesn't initially connect with.

I feel like the writers could have made Laurel's plan seem significantly less horrible if they'd given Thea a moment of saying that she isn't completely mad at Oliver, because, in spite of the crazy, she'd still rather be alive. As it was, it kind of read (to me) like Laurel was saying "Oliver did something selfish and reckless (which is terrible because that's totally my thing), so now I have to one-up him by doing the exact same thing, only worse." Also, I really could have done without that last shot.

Sometimes I feel like there must be a jar in the writers' room where you have to put in five dollars if you do Laurel any favors in the script.

See, my main complaint about the last scene is that we're supposed to think it's a big deal that Oliver's going to kill Damien Darhk. Like, I might have found that a bit surprising if it were a season ago, but Oliver definitely killed Ra's at the end of last season (not a complaint, just an observation) and I'm pretty sure there wasn't a single discussion about finding a way to deal with him that didn't involve killing. In fairness, I suppose there just generally weren't a lot of discussions about how to deal with Ra's that we actually got to see.

My guess is that billing order will be alphabetical for the main cast, since they're trying to sell it as an ensemble show. I'm trying to take the whole "we built the show around her" thing with a grain of salt, because I don't want to get my hopes up too much, but that's definitely nice to see.

I think that would be a cool dynamic. I actually think that Stein has a more cold, pragmatic side to him, just based on his reactions to Ronnie right after they were first separated, so I could definitely see him having a lot of respect for Sara's ability to do what needs to be done. Then again, I suppose it'll depend on which version of Sara we get on this show...

I might have gotten this wrong, but wasn't Laurel in on that plan? Maybe I'm just assuming she was, because otherwise she was just going along with letting Roy fully take the fall for Oliver (and also probably the one who made the call to put him in General Population in the prison, if my limited knowledge of DA powers is correct). As far as how to integrate Laurel into the team going forward, I think a degree of self-awareness on the part of the writers and the character would go a long way. Like, I think Laurel is controlling and stubborn in the same way that Oliver is, which is a perfectly fine character trait to have, but only if the other characters react to it as that. I think that Laurel and Oliver have a really gross history together and that they tend to bring out each other's worst sides, and yet the show seems to want to pretend that they're just old friends. I also think that Laurel's been wanting to put on her sister's mask (and wig) since before she even knew it was her sister, but the show tried to say that it was only after Sara died and only to honor her memory or something. Basically, I don't think there's much wrong with who she is, as a character, but she's never going to work (for me) if it feels like the show is constantly trying to tell us that she's someone else.

Yeah, that's pretty much how I was hoping they'd do it, if they were going to do it (personally, I was happy with the sonic grenade things). I feel like, visually, it would have worked better if it weren't such a full body thing. The little semi-squat pose thing she does reminds me a bit too much of a hagraven from Skyrim and it looks like it takes a lot more effort than it really should for being a piece of tech. I kind of wonder if there was concern, behind the scenes, that the sound effect wouldn't be enough to sell it, so they thought they needed a more dramatic looking physicality from her. If that's the case, I hope they've changed their minds. That being said, I actually appreciate that they've so far had her using it at the beginning of fights, as more of an ambush tactic, rather than in the middle. To me, it's just good strategy that, if you can disable your opponent, you do it early.

Totally agreed. It almost pains me to say this, because I'm a huge Sara fan (in case you haven't guessed that), but I sometimes wish that they'd stuck with CNRI as Laurel's path to becoming the Canary. I think if she'd really been starting out the vigilantism from the vantage of wanting to help people and finding working within the law to be insufficient, I would have found her arc to be a lot more satisfying. See, I'm of two minds when it comes to Sara being resurrected. On the one hand, I'm really happy that she's going to be back and hopefully mostly herself. I've always felt they made a pretty big mistake in killing her off, so I'm really glad that they're correcting it. At the same time, though, within the show, I can't imagine the decision to bring Sara back being a smart one, considering she's been dead for almost a year. I feel like the writers positioning Laurel as the driving force behind bringing Sara back is their way of saying "See, Laurel really loves her sister and wishes she were alive (and totally never wanted to steal her life at all)," but I worry that it'll end up feeling more like "Laurel makes rash decisions without thinking of the consequences, because that's just a thing she does now" and I'm not particularly excited for that. Every time I remember that fact, it makes me sad all over again.

Just to clarify, I think she was mainly talking about being away from her father, but it still rankled. Yeah, sorry about that.

To me, Laurel picking up more of Sara's fighting style would be disappointing. I feel like one of the few things they did right with Laurel's taking over as Black Canary was the fact that she had a completely different fighting style than Sara (i.e. using the nightstick instead of the bo staff, having more of a boxing base). To pull a comparison from Marvel, I think it helps to keep Laurel as more of a Peggy Carter type fighter, while Sara's more of a Melinda May. In fairness, I should mention that I just re-watched "Al Sah-Him" and hearing Nyssa describe spending time with Laurel as the first time she's ever been happy in her life has me in a less than generous mood when it comes to Laurel copying stuff from Sara.

See, I was thinking more along the lines of "I'm not falling for this one a fourth time, she'll be back sooner or later," but that's just me.

I think a lot of how things played out right after Sara's death was just poorly thought out and poorly written, so I feel bad actually blaming Laurel for it. Like, I understand that, apparently, that was how the writers wanted that storyline to go and Laurel kind of got stuck holding the bag for a lot of the really poor decisions that needed to be made for that to work (that being said, I would argue that a lot of the characters were in a similar position throughout season 3, which makes Sara maybe the lucky one, since she just got to be dead the whole time). At the same time, though, as written, those are still the choices she made and I don't think, as written, there was enough of a case for her being in shock the whole time to really write them off. I agree that Oliver going to comfort her, both in the lair and later at the "funeral," would have helped sell the idea that she was not completely cognizant of what was going on around her, but, instead, they had her throwing herself at him both times while he looked uncomfortable and like he'd rather be hugging literally anyone else in the world. To me, it read as almost manipulative, like she was doing it just to keep his focus on her.

That's fair. To me, though, under the circumstances, it would have made more sense for them to hold off on calling her "Black Canary" until there was another not-dead Canary that she needed to be differentiated from.

I think the difference is that Oliver goes by a lot of names, but there's always the understanding (for those familiar with his comic book version) that he is "Green Arrow." He doesn't need to be called that, on the show, for it to be who he is. I would argue that Sara didn't need to be called "Black Canary" in order for her to be considered a version of that character from the comics. However, there seems to be a pervasive argument that, because she was never called that on the actual show, she lacks a level of legitimacy as a version of that character, thus making her somehow the lesser. I feel like that argument ignores both the fact that many people involved with the show have referred to her as being a version of "Black Canary" and that the comics often refer to Black Canary simply as "Canary."

She said she's watched at least the first episode, but I don't know if she's watched any more than that.