yellowfred

I thought a couple of them were actually kind of humorous. In particular, after Shae said that Tyrion killed Joffrey to get Sansa into bed, the look on Margaery's face seemed to say "oh, that's what it would have taken." On the more serious side, it seemed, at least to me, like she was concerned when she realized how thoroughly Sansa was implicated. I think she can justify to herself letting Tyrion stand trial, maybe because she figures that Tywin won't let him actually be executed, but with that much actual evidence agaisnt Sansa, she has to know that Cercei's not going to let her go. Overall, I really liked the way the trial played out. I think it made a lot of sense for Tywin to kind of see what he could get out of Jaime before letting him in on the plan. I think he always intended to sort of let Cercei have her trial and then send Tyrion off to the wall, and getting what he wanted from Jaime was just a bonus. Also, I thought that, between her clothes and her whole demeanor, I could totally buy that Shae had been sufficiently persuaded to testify against Tyrion (and Sansa, a little bit), which was something I wasn't sure they'd be able to pull off. I have to say, though, I didn't buy Tyrion's rant about being judged for his dwarfism. Not that I don't think it was in character, because he does pin a lot of his problems on that, but the way it played out, it seemed like the direction of the scene was that he was right, which I don't think he was. Westeros is obviously not an especially dwarf-friendly place, but I'm pretty sure that anyone who openly threatened the king as often as he did would probably be on trial if that king was murdered.

Yeah, she got me with that one, too. I think the thing I love about the way the show's portrayed Cercei is that they can have her being manipulative, but not have that be all of it. She obviously wants Oberyn to be on her side, so that he'll go her way in the trial, but that doesn't make her disingenuous in caring about her daughter and being worried for her. I also liked that her way of getting her father and Mace Tyrell on her side involved her giving up things she actually cares about (letting Tommen marry Margaery and not fighting her own marriage to Loras anymore). I think it really shows how badly she wants what she believes will be justice for Joffrey.

Naturally. Yeah, unless he's planning to keep her perpetually drugged up, I can't see this ending well for really anyone on that compound. Then again, keeping her perpetually drugged up could very well be their plan, so...

Yeah, I was pretty relieved by that, too, especially after that comment about forgetting that Delphine's her monitor. I tend to think that Delphine does, ultimately, have Cosima's best interests in mind, but I still wouldn't exactly trust her, particularly where the other clones are concerned. Like, I know she said that the Jennifer thing had just come to her attention, but in 2x01, she mentioned that Cosima's symptoms were the same as "the other two," so she had to have been at least aware of her for some time. I'm not sure what her motivation was for that, but it still makes her seem shifty. Also, that whole conversation between Allison and Cosima was so frustrating (like, in a good way), because Cosima still hasn't told them that she's sick, which means she needs DYAD, whether she trusts them or not, but then Allison thinks it's just another person being dismissive of her, which is totally the last thing she needs. I just really want to two of them to get high together and talk it all out.

So, the Margaery/Tommen stuff was super creepy. I always pictured their relationship as more like a kid and his favorite babysitter, so it definitely turned out a lot more molest-y than I was expecting. Like, did they really need to throw in that line about it being "[their] little secret?" I feel like something's gone terribly wrong if I'm finding Littlefinger's behavior less overtly creepy than Margaery's. He is indeed the guy who cut Jaime's hand off. His voice sounded different, at least to me, but it would make sense for him to cover up his accent if he's going there to do undercover work for the Boltons.

Yeah, jellysalmon, that was definitely the impression I got, regarding Margaery. I thought it was a little funny, in that scene, that she said almost the same thing that Sansa does, in the books, about how awful it was watching him die like that. It definitely made it seem like she was prepared to go for the long haul with Joffrey, in spite of everything. Plus, she was candid enough about what she thought of him that I don't think it was entirely an act.

I actually didn't find the Jaime/Cercei scene to be that much of a departure, just because I always thought her consent in the books was dubious at best. She tries to fight him off and says she doesn't want to do it, but he both overpowers and ignores her. I think it's kind of downplayed because it's from Jaime's perspective, and of course he wouldn't think that she was sincere in her protests, but I don't have a problem with the way the scene played out. That being said, if the director and/or writer actually thinks that was portrayed as being consensual by the end, that's more than a little bit worrisome. I really liked the stuff with Arya and the Hound. I think it was a nice counterpoint to their stuff in 4x01, where Arya seems to be thinking of the Hound as more of an ally, and now she's remembering why he's really not. He might not be as bad as a lot of people, but that doesn't necessarily make him good, either. Also, it was nice to have a reminder that there are common people still loyal to the Tullys and the Starks, since we probably won't be seeing any of their more formidable allies for another season or two.

I actually didn't find that change to be particularly drastic. In the book, she initially tells him "no" and tries to fight him off, but it's kind of minimized because it's from Jaime's perspective, and he thinks she's just trying to make him work for it or something.

No, I get that, too. Like, as much as Ned was a really trusting guy, it's kind of sad to think of how much trouble may have come from the fact that he didn't trust his own wife. Then again, he didn't trust his daughters enough to tell them what was really going on in King's Landing, and that caused significantly more trouble for all of them, so it wouldn't exactly be out of character.

I agree with most of your post, but especially this. Book!Shae, to me, was a rather worrisome indicator of how Tyrion looked at women in general. Show!Shae is almost the opposite of that; she's someone that Tyrion can see as an equal of sorts, rather than a possession. Plus, her relationship with Sansa on the show makes her infinitely more likable to me (I never quite forgave book!Shae for that "all they did was rape her" comment). In fact, my only complaint about show!Shae is that she ultimately has the same fate as book!Shae, and I'll be significantly sadder about it this time.

No, he shows up during the trial, before the duel. He isn't much of an option for champion, mostly because he lost his hand, but also because he doesn't want to takes sides between Cersei and Tyrion.

I'm guessing it's that Lysa poisoned Jon Arryn, at Littlefinger's request, and then told Catelyn that she thought it was the Lannisters, also at Littlefinger's request. I wonder if they're also going to reveal that the assassin sent to kill Bran was actually sent by Joffrey and that the dagger was some random dagger he stole from his father's armory, which means that Littlefinger had absolutely no basis for pinning it on Tyrion, other than really wanting to stir up shit between the Lannisters and the Starks.

Yeah, I actually kind of like that it was underwhelming. As much as Joffrey's a piece of shit, he's not nearly as formidable as people like Tywin and Littlefinger. I think the way he dies is a nice reminder of just how pathetic he ultimately is. Well, Littlefinger tells Sansa that Olenna took the bead when she adjusted Sansa's hairnet, and then explains how he gave her the idea that she'd need to (which mostly involved having people tell her what a piece of shit he is). He never explicitly states who put the poison in the cup, though it's likely he knew, considering how integral he was to the plan, with the whole Dontos thing. So, on kind of a side note, I'm officially annoyed that they brought Jaime and Brienne back early. Like, I get that they couldn't do it for story reasons, but I hate that they had her literally ten feet from Sansa and she didn't even stop by to say "hi." It just feels so unlike her, especially when you realize that it's already well known that she served Catelyn, so it's not like she's trying to hide that fact.

I'm sure it'll have to come up at some point, but I could see it being later in the season. I wonder if they're going to show that whole family being involved. In the books, I think it's only explicit that Olenna's involved, but I feel like the show has done a good job of setting up that Margaery knows the plan. It makes more sense for her to indulge Joffrey's sadistic side if she knows she only has to put up with him for a short time.

He had a dream about Rhaegar telling him that he was supposed to protect his wife and children, to which Jaime responds that he never thought his father would hurt them, so I don't think it's any stretch to believe that he feels guilty about it.

She said she'd be 14 in about a month ("at the next moon's turn" or something like that).

It seems more likely that they're all going to move away from those archetypes. Dany's already acting less and less like hers (remember, the Mother is all about mercy), and Sansa and Jon have also taken steps away from theirs.

Well, the main problem with that is that Sansa actually says in "Second Sons" that she's going to be turning 14 soon. I'm not saying that the show couldn't start accelerating the timeline going forward to accommodate their young actors aging, but they haven't so far.

Yeah, I think it's a mix of the fact that Tywin knows he's not the type to retire or let anyone else do the job for him and he knows that Joffrey's not the type of king that'll let him get away with taking a vacation ever. They never do.

His reasoning might have been a little more complicated than that. They've mentioned that the family's plan has always been for Margaery to become the Queen, and Renly was their best option for that. Stannis was already married and probably wouldn't have been all that amenable to putting his wife aside for Margaery. Joffrey was engaged and, at the point Loras and Renly fled King's Landing, they had every reason to think that the Lannisters would need to preserve that engagement to appease the North (that was before Ned was arrested and then executed). Besides, if Renly hadn't been shadowbaby'd, their plan could have actually worked.

I think it was probably several months, if not closer to a year. One timeline I found (here) has them plotting for about 9 months. I definitely agree with your point, though. In the books, she started actively planning her escape a few months after she started being a prisoner and she didn't stop until she actually got out. Even when she was going with the Tyrells' plan to marry her to Willas, her thoughts on it were basically that she'd go with whoever could get her out first. Also, I don't know how in character it would be for her to just run away with Dontos in the middle of the chaos, since she's not usually that impulsive.

I don't think it was every laid out in its entirety in one book, though Ned's chapters in Game of Thrones have the basic outline. Clash of Kings has Jaime telling Catelyn more about how Brandon and Rickard Stark died. Selmy fills in some of the details for Dany in her chapters in Storm of Swords. Also, I don't remember Rhaegar hiding in a tower all that long. He was in hiding when Brandon came to King's Landing to ask for Lyanna back, but I thought he actually led Targaryan forces during the rebellion. He also at least stopped by King's Landing long enough to talk to Jaime about some vague plans he had and to ask him to keep his family safe. Still, I also think it was nice to have Oberyn holding on to some resentment for Rhaegar. I remember most of his comments in the books being focused on the Lannisters and the Mountain, since they're the ones who actually killed Elia and her children, but it makes sense that he'd also have a problem with Rhaegar for putting them all in that situation to begin with.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Loras is meant to be the Tyrell's only son, at this point. They've referred to him as the heir to Highgarden more than once. Plus, in that scene with Tywin and Olenna where he threatens to put Loras in the Kingsguard if he doesn't marry Cercei, Tywin seems to say that he's the only male heir they have. Yeah, I can see how it'd be easier to actually see it missing, but I feel like that might be a problem. Having Olenna adjust Sansa's hairnet is a fairly innocuous gesture, both for Sansa and for the audience. Unless they did some kind of close up, you probably wouldn't see that she took one of the stones, or even that one was missing. With the necklace, there aren't that many stones to begin with and they're going to be right on her chest, so for Olenna to take it and for anyone to not notice it was missing all through the feast seems a bit silly. Along the same lines, I don't really like that Dontos didn't mention anything about helping Sansa escape. I realize that, after all that's happened, she's probably less likely to get on board with it than she would have been back when she still had most of her family and a home to go back to, but still.

I was a little disappointed that they didn't come up with a better reason for Brienne not contacting Sansa in however much time they've been in King's Landing. Like, I get that Jaime has a lot of valid reasons why they can't exactly take her out of King's Landing, but I'm not sure why they haven't even spoken with her. Plus, it seemed a little out of character for her to just let it go because Jaime said she should. I feel like they're setting up more of Dany's long-term plot (not really having control over her dragons, trying to rule Slaver's Bay as an outsider), which is especially nice after the way they left off with her last season. I also liked that little moment of Grey Worm having a thing for Missandei. I think it's nice to have something going on in that portion of the story that's a little bit lighter.

I'll be very disappointed if they have Tywin, instead of Tyrion, killing Shae. I feel like they've already changed a lot of smaller things to make Tyrion nicer than he is in the books, but changing that would be taking it too far, in my opinion. To be fair, plenty of people who were in the room still thought Tyrion did it. The whole thing was set up to look like Tyrion did it. So Jaime could be there, see the same stuff that everyone else did, and still not be sure if Tyrion's guilty or not.