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However, show also has Dean regularly talking up his brother. When was the last time show had Sam talk up how great his brother is. Last I remember is in the hospital with the rabids when Sam says Dean deserves better. I could be wrong though.The show has a lot of talking down to Dean. Just my Imagination made me cringe. Sully saying how wonderful Sam is and Dean is a "germ" who was reconed by show as not being there for his brother. Also in the hospital with the rabids where the cured girl went on about Sam being a hero. When was the last time that word was used for just Dean and not in conjunction with the two of them. Sam shows genuine surprise when his brother says something that shows he's read something besides Busty Asian Beauties. Dean teases Sam to his face and also shows how proud he is of Sam. Sam often shows his feelings through actions which Dean doesn't see. The eye rolls when Dean isn't looking toward him for example or the look shared with the other person in the scene. I would have to re watch episodes to give you a lot of specific scenes but they are there because I notice them regularly. Ditto

I hadn't thought about it but I feel your right about Ramiel. Crowley said he was basically retired and living under the radar didn't he, It could have been that the BMoLwanted the colt and that was the only reason Mary was sent after Ramiel and not for something he did. That's an interesting thought.

Plus we have gotten a lot of Sam eye rolls, scoffs, and acting embarrassed about and irritated with his brother.....you know...the brother who gave up his food for Sam when he was little, gave up his chance at a normal life so he could take care of Sam, and, oh yeah, went to hell so Sam could live. Some of this is scripted but some of it is Jared's choice in delivering lines or deciding on gestures so I don't know who to blame. IMO, Sam gives the impression that he thinks he is better than his gluttonous, dumb, horny slob of a brother even though he loves him.. I haven't seen much looking up to big brother for a long time.

Rob really helped Jensen to get comfortable. He and Jason. Now they all seem to be encouraging Jared. Jensen actually looked proud of him. Really a sweet moment.

One thing I liked is how everyone encouraged and helped Jared who has shown in the past that doing this kind of stuff wouldn't be easy for him. I think it was part of the plan to have a second guitarist so if Jared had a problem it wouldn't be as noticable.. And Jensen singing also took some pressure off. They really were trying to encourage Jared and make sure he didn't end up embarrassed. I thought he did great and his shyness about it was endearing.

I have no idea what else was broadcast before the west coast broadcast (which is also after most of the country has also seen the episode,) As far as the one with Max, please tell me you see a difference between an outtake of two people and a glossy photoshoot of one star that is captioned as the WINCHESTERS. Not even close even without taking into account when they were used.

I wouldn't call that exactly making up for it. Comes DAYS after the episode broadcast and after their social media was filled with complaints. Making up for it would be not being so bias BEFORE the next episode. JMO

For me, that few seconds of Dean suspended on hooks was a much more terrifying representation of hell than anything after. Everything since has gotten lamer and lamer. And to think we have a writers strike for pretty much saving the show in it's early years. I am probably alone here but I found the hell and Lucifer in Sam's mind scenes more hilarious than scary. I haven't liked a portrayal of Lucifer after season 5. I wish they would let him go for good.

Actually Perez said the quid pro quo was Sam being able to kill Ramiel because Dean killed Azazel. They haven't said why everybody but Dean has had the opportunity to use the Colt. Anyway, that's what I thought I read at the time.

I couldn't agree more!

I think some of the stuff you saw was just Jensen doing anything he could with crummy writing.

And I am not giving the writers near that much credit. They use anvils not nuance.

And that's where we have to disagree. Dean has very little story line and very little contribution this year. His only story seems to be his relationship with Mom and his worrying about Cas so if you take away even a little bit of his storyline ( he is the one always reaching out to Mom and is the point of contact) then it does take something away from the little bit he has going. If they want to give Sam more of the Mom storyline, then they need to give Dean something else to make up for it. Maybe he could actually come up with a plan instead of having to ask his brother what to do for once. I really don't think a new viewer would realize Sam is the younger brother this year. He is being written as a classic older brother this year I M O.. Being on screen while a story takes place is not necessarily the same thing as being relevant to the story. So we will have to agree to disagree. I do appreciate your viewpoint but I just don't see it that way.

That's how I saw it too. I also think this is a potential spinoff.

Personally, I think the deconstructing of Dean began seriously last year. This year it is just in epic proportions. I am hopeful for the last few episodes. Jensen said he likes episode 22 so at least we should get one decent Dean episode still. I'm a little worried he said he hoped they didn't cut to much of it. It is still possible a lot of the good Dean stuff ends up on the cutting room floor.

Ditto!!!!!

I agree but I just wondered if Mark S wants to leave for some reason. Personally I don't care for Lucifer but that's just me.

I apologized for reacting so strongly to your original post. We are just going to have to disagree. I agree Mary's return should also strongly affect Sam and that should not be dismissed. However, I also think that Dean's four years with his mother which caused him to put her on a pedestal is why Dean's connection is stronger. Also, he has spent a lot more time with his Mom in early show too. He time traveled back without Sam for a whole episode and then there was the djin (how do you spell the name of the genie?) episode. Dean has always had the "what could have been" thoughts because he experienced a little of it as a child. JMO

We will have to just disagree on that one. As I have watched this season I see Sam with a big lead in interacting with the guest stars this year.

Because they added Lucifer as a regular, I have been wondering if Crowley dies and Lucifer takes his place as the fourth lead. Anybody know if Mark is signed on for next year?

Very thoughtful analysis that I think is spot on for my headcanon. As far as balance, I don't mean kill for kill as an example. Balance for me is when both brothers are allowed to shine, to have their hero moments, and to contribute meaningfully to the storyline equally but not necessarily by doing the same thing.

Your right. I didn't realize I personalized it as much as it apparently came across. We can disagree on the treatment of characters without being disagreeable about it.

It's the writers imbalance. Why can't they divide up everything (kills, planning, research, interaction with guest stars) better this year. That includes the communication with Mary. Doesn't have to be balanced in each episode but it should be over a number of episodes. I don't disagree with that when you look at the series as a whole. This season has swung sharply the other way but I'm ok with that if they would balance the rest.

It wasn't a rant against Sam. Although it wasn't intended to be a a rant, if it was, it was about fans whose favorite character is getting to do almost everything in the show right now complaining that said character isn't given everything else to do too. I don't hate Sam. I don't want Sam relegated to irrelevancy so Dean can do it all and I would appreciate the reciprocal from Sam fans instead of wanting more imbalance. I want these writers to write for two CO-LEADS. I like the Sam/Eileen connection too. I agree that Dean used to interact more with the guest stars.

I am going with what the show has shown us on screen. The rest is for fan fiction.