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The collection of the raw data IMO had subjective decisions on what data to include so I look at it as interesting and worthwhile but not definitive. IMO.

But the Show counted it as a save and a save for Sam. They gave us that on screen multiple times. It's a huge part of establishing Sam as a hero.

Which makes my point. You can't definitevly say it was a joint save either. It's a subjective opinion. Your numbers are interesting and part of the data to consider. Just saying that stating they are entirely objective can be disputed.

But the Show doesn't count Swan Song as a joint save. They have said that in the show more than once. It was Sam. A lot of fans hold that opinion too. Counting it as a joint save was a subjective decision, not objective.

Yes, and sometimes the apology isn't even in words but instead is just an action. For example, did you count one save for Sam when he fell in the pit and saved billions of people or was it even counted? Even the show doesn't equate Sam saving billions of people and Dean saving the drowning child in Dead in the water. But a tick mark for each does.

Except you said if the character makes multiple kills at once you only count it as one unless I misunderstood. So the multiple people Sam saved out of the warehouse when Show was trying to give us a Sam who has been running out of buildings since he was a kid counts as one save. Likewise the multiple kills by MofC Dean in the would be rapists house when they were trying to show us how Dean was losing to the Mark counts as one kill. It is interesting data. I just don't look at it as being as definitive as you do. It's almost that it's so objective that it's a little subjective if that makes any sense.

?

They have said at a con there is no SPN without Cass at this point. The end of the Lucifer storyline would make me deliriously happy too!

Don't you want me to do anything this summer but watch SPN?

I do. They would have to be sourced so people could look and see if they agreed.

If Cass dies, he wont stay dead. I think Jensen and Jared would pack it up if Misha was leaving. The Show can't afford to lose one of its three most popular characters and survive. That is of course just my opinion.

I Dean said it while looking at Sams data. I took the quip as Dean's way of acknowledging that Sam took a whole lot of info that only made sense to Sam and came up with a successful solution. Like the Beautiful Mind mathematician solving complex equations on his white board. No I did not take it that Dean meant Sam was like movie guy in any way except he was super smart. I took it as a compliment. We will just have to agree to disagree.

I suspect also that Show "think" its funny. Maybe Jared just isn't as good with his comedy. Sam comes off looking bad, not funny IMO. As is the norm for these kind of things, we will just have to agree to disagree.

Woops. Sorry!!

Maybe they don't actually die but end up in the Empty somehow anyway. I doubt that's how it happens though.

If the Show didn't intend us to take the dreamscape as accurate they 1) wouldn't have written it or 2) they would have given us a later line, scene or something casting doubt on it. Instead they doubled down for half the season on the I'm ready to die especially. We were also shown the dreamscape was to be trusted when Gadreel showed Dean the scene between Sam and Death. And Sam confirms it multiple times later on. Comparing Sam's dreams to our own doesn't really work because our dreams aren't scripted by a writer trying to establish a storyline. The Show told us what Sam was experiencing in his head was important and represented the true situation. When the Show puts the dreamscape on the screen and never refutes it, personally, that establishes it for me. .

I'm with you. I thought it was a very touching scene. See, we can agree on some stuff and disagree on other things. It's actually good we all don't see things the same way all the time. How boring would that be?

I was referring to this season on Dean always asking Sam what the plan is or what should we do. And at least Dean made the comment on trusting a demon to his face. Ok. I was confused. You are definitely right on that one.

What was Sam's shaky mental status two episodes ago? The beautiful minds was from Dean regarding all the complicated researching figuring out the Nephilim was due May 18th. It could be argued Dean was shakier because he was worried about Cass.

Bad day at Black Rock was a Comedy. I just watched the Sam/ Dean scenes again so I could be sure I was right. There is only big eye roll directed at Sam was when he lost his shoe. And it sure wasn't a condescending one. The rest werent directed at Sam. Sam regularly does exasperated eye rolls, scoffs, expressions when he is standing behind Dean. That's not brotherly banter. Another example of the I'm better, smarter attitude is the shock Sam displays when Dean says something that shows he is well read or knows about something that's not hunting related. He acts so surprised when Dean shows he isn't dumb. I think I'll do a rewatch of this season this summer and keep track. I can remember so many. They are almost weekly with Sam. I'll keep track of any of Dean putting his brother down too but unfortunately pretty much all Dean has been allowed to do is talk his brother up (beautiful mind Sam) and ask Sam what the plan is.

OK. I said a while back that we have gotten a lot of Sam eye rolls, scoffs, and acting embarrassed about and irritated with his brother. I also said that IMO, Sam gives the impression that he thinks he is better than his gluttonous, dumb, horny slob of a brother even though he loves him..." The response was that no, these are brotherly things and Sam is teasing. IMO, you can't say Sam is teasing Dean when he regularly does it behind Dean's back. Watch the restaurant scene in The Memory Remains. Sam's condescending quips are when Dean is already over talking to the waitress. Sam is not smiling. This isn't light hearted brotherly banter. There is no attitude of "well that's just my goofy brother". It is more like why does my brother have to be a horny stupid idiot. They even cut back to Sam's face a second time just so Show makes sure we see Sam's response. I guess show thinks we should find it funny. I don't. Sam's expression is really easy to read and it is pure exasperation. Sam is very condescending to Dean on a regular basis. This was just one of the latest.

It would actually be nice if we could not only get rid of the half wit brother comment but also Sam's 1. I saved Bobby all alone 2. I want to die 3. I saved the world alone 4. Death is honored to reap me. There are a lot more but it's hard to do this on a phone.

If your going to dismiss the halfwit remark because it was in Sam's head then you have to dismiss the " I'm ready to die" that was in Sam's head too. Last Dean knew from Sam in real life (at the church) is Sam wanted to live. I will have to see if I can find the comments. This format isn't easy to find old stuff in.

Oh but don't you know...Sam doesn't diss Dean. I was sick yesterday and watched The Memory Remains again as I was curious about the comments that Dean was too distracted by his burger. I wish I had been in the restaurant so I could give Sam a whack on the head when he was so condescending about Dean (behind his back) regarding the waitress. I know a lot of you don't agree but I see some of that from Sam almost every episode. When you combine that with incompetent, vallium Dean, it doesn't make make it much fun for a Dean girl.

I would like to see a comprehensive list of Dean's dropped or never fleshed out storylines and the same for Sam. Anyone ever put one together?