meira.hand

Even Lucifer has this at its base (although she is not really aware of his "special abilities:) and I still remember a Canadian series that ran for 5 seasons with the same setup: The Listener. Also with a reversal of role: Medium.

One thing that was clarified here is all the questions that were raised about how to replace the three counterparts without raising suspicions. Unlike Clair that had to fully integrate into the alpha world and her shadow's life, these three only needed the documentation for a one time infiltration of the crossing complex. As long as their shadows were killed at home and left there undiscovered, nothing else mattered. This is why Baldwin's way of doing it was good enough.

As he came to frame Howard Silk instead of Clare, I assume he decided to keep her secret and so freed her and she is taking care of the child. He clearly does not other wise why interrogate him about what Howard Prime said to Emily (in the embassy). Also all his comments to Clare and to Howard during the evening were clearly aimed at Howard prime, i.e. Emily's ex-husband.

Me too. They slowly build the emotional undertones for them, so you really get it only after you watch the preceding episode. Like the next one: "Love The Lie" After watching the episode I love the title even more, as they managed to surprise again with who exactly has been loving the lie all along. Just perfect.

Me too. They slowly build the emotional undertones for them, so you really get it only after you watch the preceding episode. Like the next one: "Love The Lie"

They could retaliate via a pandemic triggering virus that the survivors of their pandemic are immune to. In their eyes its the perfect revenge and this kind of biological weapon can easily be transferred thru the crossing and spreading it further takes care of itself. The way they don't mind getting rid of innocent people, I don't think they are looking to punish the specific people they think are responsible for the pandemic. This does not explain why they need to have replacements in key positions but its an example of how very few people can cause unimaginable damage.

I took the "running identical" to refer to the way external events affect people, not on a molecular level or living cells levels. To have the couple double have the exact same egg & sperm DNA mix to create DNA matched children, is a bit much, even in this imaginary scenario. This is also why I don't really see the alpha Silks aborted daughter as a potential Anna double, just the child they could have had. Alpha Howard would like to connect with her because she is a child of a Howard and Emily, not his aborted child double. They left this without specifics because it resonated better emotionally but they were also careful not to imply that the aborted child was a counterpart.

Since they didn't give us years in her flashback episode, we can only guess. I'd say Baldwin is somewhere around 30. The actress is 27, so that's close enough. Only people born before the split have exact DNA duplicates in both worlds, so as the split occurred 30 years ago, Baldwin has to be at least a little over 30. This also means that they had to start this replacement school very early because they have just one and very specific and narrow window of time to do it. Only people born before the split and they have to be still young enough for this kind of indoctrination and without parents to oppose it. BTW, this also means that after the duplicate generation dies off, there will be no more counterparts.

What I find interesting is that the school instructors chose to refer to the children's counterparts as Shadows. I guess they did it as a way to dehumanize them. The children must realized that for the replacement to take place the counterparts will be killed, which can be traumatic, unless they are just the shadows of us, the real people.

The writers seem to leave this issue unresolved on purpose. The officials from prime insists on it while those from alpha deny it vehemently. In fact, on the prime side it has become such a strong excuse for control that I suspect they will keep using it even if they know its not true.

The childhood indoctrination reminded me of a similar process that Philip and Elizabeth went thru in The Americans. Not so much the actual details as the tone and ruthlessness. I will not be surprised if it got its inspiration from that series (and in turn from possible real life examples of the cold war). I like the way they used one back story to give us so much information without direct exposition. I also like how they slowly separate the real bad guys driving this revenge madness from the field soldiers that are basically victims themselves.

"Jason: I am sorry we couldn't get you an HVT to question. Mandy: My understanding, he was trying to stab one of your team members. Jason: Well, he was also reaching for a detonator." I have to admit to my shame that at first I thought - wait, no one was near him when he reached for the .... - Oh I see! I absolutely adore that dog.

Don't like rap, don't like true crime, but I like a good story told well and this looks like it. I like the jumps, the cinematography, the sharp dialogue and it all feels really well made with care and heart.

What is more relevant (and funny), is that he was in an earlier UK series Utopia, and his scene here is a clear reference to an interrogation scene there. It was a torture scene and he was on the receiving end this time, where something really unpleasant was done to his eyes, culminating in usage of a spoon. Hence the use of the eyes for the lie detector and Ian offering him coffee while waving a spoon. Clearly the writers were having a private joke wondering if anyone will notice. I cannot take the credit as it was a post on Reddit that did. If you are curious and not squeamish, you can see the scene on YouTube (in the context of the series, this scene is strangely actually funny): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQ1g2NWmdyM

Will Yun Lee. When I saw him I wondered when he found the time. He is playing in two new series, and I had problem placing him, probably because both are SciFi and so it was so out of context: 1. Falling Water as Taka, an NYPD detective, now in its second season (main cast). 2. Altered Carbon as Joel Kinnaman original "sleeve" (recurring cast)

I have to agree, in this case. They seem to insert them randomly, almost like product placements. The one with Clair just before she left Baldwin to be assassinated at least had some emotional relevance to the story (the betrayal was more extreme and shocking) but all the rest included nothing relevant to the story or the characters and I kept thinking: "OK, and your point is?". I have no problem with nudity or sexual scenes when they are integral to the story and develop the characters and their relationships, but here they really seem out of place and pointless and I find myself fast forwarding thru them.

What I was trying to say in my post was that this assumption is really the way Anna it sees from a young person point of view. She clearly still hopes for a change or she would not have gone to him and dragged him to the hospital. Both Howards used to be the same person until maturity and so Prime Howard is not a sociopath and clearly loved both his wife and child in the beginning and the break came later. Isn't Alpha's Howard implicit assumption that Prime Howard would welcome a reconciliation if Alpha Howard initiated it so wrong? I also think he will tell him what he did so Prime Howard will not just charge in like a bull in a china shop. All relationships are risky and to not take a chance because it may end badly does not make sense to me, especially between parents and children. Of course his basic motivation is his emotional need but if he thought he was doing only damage I don't think he would have persisted like he did with Anna, while agreeing to not push it with Emily.

UNLESS ... the marks are not the people they want to replace but the people close to them (living together?) that need to be out of the way so the replacement will not be immediately discovered. In this case the Baldwin killing style is OK. This may also explain why access to the personal effects of the people to be replaced needs is a problem while their live-in partners are still there. Only later the killing of the people to be replace can take place in secret.

When the alpha people were looking for Baldwin, they were hoping that learning about Nadia will help them find Baldwin (for example the apartment she was hiding in was known to Nadia), which is why Clare told Baldwin to kill her. It was a safety measure to allow Baldwin to keep working on this side. The reason they had Baldwin specifically do it is probably an excuse to allow the story to explore another case of the way characters on both sides changed in different ways and add an emotional depth to the Baldwin character.

Just had an idea that may explain this. I watched the conversation of Clare with the three replacements and when they asked about personal effects of the people they will replace, she said they will have them after the killing, which they thought was already done. I assumed (like many on this thread) that they meant killing the people they want to replace. But what if they meant the people living with them (e.g. a spouse, a parent etc), who are most likely to notice the replacement and who block access to the personal effects. After they are killed, even in Baldwin public style, they can proceed with the secret killing and replacing with more chance of success.

I really liked the nice touch of the Go game. Alpha Howard, as is his nature, played to win, but when he realized his mistake (meek Howard failed to mention that he never won yet), made sure he will loose after all. The way so many nuances in this series are added with actions and facial expressions and no verbal explanation is very rewarding. In a strange way, despite being a completely different type of show, it reminds me a little of "Better Call Saul". There too you can have whole scenes showing instead of telling and its mesmerizing.

Hmm. Pretty sure that would lead to some very serious scrutiny of the person whose other appeared to have been killed, particularly if that person was a director's secretary like Lotte. I don't think any sleeper agent could withstand that. Actually, your plan might work if the replaced person was a "civilian," but almost certainly not if the replaced person worked at The Office. And it seems those are the high-value targets. Also, assuming Baldwin was supposed to be offing these people to make room for their replacements, her very public killing of Marcel, Howard's coworker from the first episode, wouldn't fit this plan at all. I agree. I think there are two kinds of assassinations going on. The first is targeting people that are blocking the advance of someone they want to get in their place, like Marcel, or posing a danger by finding out something they are trying to hide (like meek Howard's Emily). This kinds of killing are not hidden and I suspect these are the people on Baldwin list. The second is the replacement program for graduates of the "school" and is much more tricky and I feel not explained at all well. For it to work there is a more obvious problem even before finding out they did not return home. It has to be done in secret with the replacement immediately stepping in. If its known x was just killed, how can you replace him/her? Also the replacement needs to be already in place. They cannot be killed in advance as the conversation in the flat seemed to indicate.

Right...but the person she encounters then is not her father. Her father hasn't been given a chance to respond the way he would actually respond at all. As far as we have been told, he might have blown her off entirely. She did not in any way expect or demand that he admit he'd made terrible mistakes in their relationship and that he wanted a complete do over. At the point that Anna showed up at other Howard's door, meek Howard had to go along and act as if he was her father to continue the ruse. I get that. He learned along the way that other Howard has been an asshole and an absentee father. To then, with all that information behind him, go and pursue Anna and give her false hope that her *real* father is turning over a new leaf, wants a clean slate and is ready to have a close relationship with her seems cruel to me given that her *real* father has never expressed any such intention and likely will not continue to be that kind of father once he returns - which according to what meek Howard knows will be very soon. Edited 14 minutes ago by RealityCreator. Its more like a common problem with fathers that are too consumed by their work and neglect their children despite loving them but the children assume they do not care. Anna's real father never even mentioned her to meek Howard or talked about her with his Emily, so we don't really know the exact situation. It can be that the relationship was broken when she was younger and she continues to believe he does not care and as his people skills are so bad he never knew how to approach her and just given up. The way he seemed to care about meek Howard's Emily in the hospital and what he said after he found out she cheated as well, felt like the relationship was broken because of his Emily and his relationship with Anna was collateral damage. I assume meek Howard is trying to do the initial mending so that if he tells her father about it when they meet they will be able to continue where meek Howard left.

There is but the recap is a very detailed synopsis which can be too much of good thing :) http://counterpartstarz.wikia.com/wiki/CounterpartStarz_Wiki

Am I the only one who thought it was strange that both NCIS and BULL episodes this week had the same name (Keep Your Friends Close). I know they cannot have a crossover as its not the same character, but still, it was weird.