Wayward Son

It's also important to remember that Neilson work their ratings through sampling. Roughly, there are actually only 120,000 houses that are used to compile the ratings data they use. This means a 1.0 rating is actually 1200 houses. A 0.1 rating is roughly 120. So when the show ticks up we could actually only be talking about an extra 50 viewers. That is why I personally think things such as the promos are probably the cause when we tick up beyond the norm.

I think the reason the show is generally so consistent is that it has a set audience of around 1.6 - 1.7 million viewers who are going to tune in week after week as the show is "event television" for them. We've been hovering around this mark since mid season ten, and I think bar the show doing something to alienate viewers it'll probably stay around here till the show ends. Then you'll get some weeks like last week where some other factor may increase that basic audience. Personally I tend to think it has to do with the promos convincing people that the episode is must see. Others thinks it's the quality of the preceding episode. Then of course there are factors unrelated to the show such as the weather keeping more people stuck inside.

I so often just find myself wanting to give Jared a massive hug!

Not in regards to this particular issue, because I do feel the general writing team and Jensen are all in agreement that Dean is hetero, but if there ever was a point where the writers adamantly felt strongly about something and an actor adamantly felt the opposite the writers would get the final say. It is an actors job to act out the storyline / direction the writers instruct them to do. Of course there are times (and we've been told of them) where the actor may voice disagreement and the writers take that on board, but ultimately the final say on storyline direction lies with the writing team / producers. So I don't think its as simple as "actor right, writer stupid". Sorry, but we'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

In a bid to move the subject on. I was just transferring some of my old stuff over to my new Livejournal and one of these items was the review I wrote when Man's Best Friends with Benefits aired. My unpopular opinion is that I don't regard it as sexist / racist as most of the fandom seem to. My reasons being I just want to make it clear that I understand this is a sensitive topic for some and as a white male I can't understand the difficulties people have gone to. This is just my take on the episode and no offence is intended.

Obviously not everyone, including the people who wrote and directed the episode, agrees with the bit in bold. I think at this point all of us are going to have to agree to disagree. Some people see ambiguity in some of Dean's scenes throughout the years and some people don't and that's OK as long as everyone on both sides are capable of respecting the opinion of others and don't dismiss the viewpoint of the other side.

Finals are in! Show maintained the same viewers and demos (0.6 and 1.62m)

Hahaha yes Sam's reaction to the whole thing was hilarious. He's just so chill and like "who cares if person think that... now I wonder what they call me and Cas" And yeah I totally agree that Dean/Alastair and Sam/Lucifer are much harder to ship due to their history on the show. Haha this post made me chuckle <333 Oh man could you imagine the meeting with Crowley? "Hi son, this is your new father in law Sam" hahahahaa

Thanks @catrox14 I think i (finally) expressed myself right in my last post! There's nothing worse than trying to say something and just not being able to find the right words to express it and your point comes across all wrong haha. Thanks @RulerofallIsurvey @DeeDee79 @MysteryGuest and @ahrtee for being patient during my mini meltdown.

That could very well be it :) . Honestly, I think I've just been wording myself very badly and coming across more intolerant than I really meant to sound like. The Point I've really been trying to make (but badly) is that (for some) the ambiguity is there and not just for fans. Therefore, just as those who see it should respect Jensen (and fans who agree with his viewpoint) and not call him names. Likewise those who don't shouldnt just automatically jump to "they're deluded and insulting Jensens acting skills".

I edited my post slightly to address your concerns :) . But of course without actually talking to the actors themselves of course it's all "ifs" and "what ifs" :)

I lied and I'm going to say one last thing. Just because I want to clarify my position. As I said earlier I've seen some people express the view (not necessarily in this conversation) that Jensen might feel his acting skills are being insulted by fans putting something into them he didn't intend. The point I was trying to make is that IMO (and the opinion of Edlund and Scriggia) some of Jensen's scenes to date have had an ambiguous note. I wasn't saying that my interpretation was the absolute correct one just that the ambiguity is there. Therefore, if (and I say if because who knows maybe this doesn't bother him in the slightest) the idea of people potentially seeing a bi-sexual Dean bothers Jensen, then, for his own sake, he may wish to consider his performances and how he can get rid of that ambiguity. Edit: If (key word here as I don't claim to have an insight into his mind) he doesn't wish to do so because he feels it would compromise how he plays Dean. I don't think it is fair for him (if the fans who think he considers fans who interpret Dean as bi as insulting to his skills are correct) to display ire with fans for picking up an interpretation even a writer and director associated with the show have picked up. And I do think getting rid of it is possible. For instance with the exception of a few Wincest fans (and even then they tend to see Dean as Sam's exception) I've never seen any fan make a serious argument Sam is bisexual the way fans have with Dean. And now I really will bow out of the discussion. I just wanted to be clear that I was never trying to argue the intolerant "Deans bi, Jensens an idiot and anyone who see it differently to me is wrong".

As this is mostly totally subjective (and this thread isn't meant to be for debates anyway) I'm gonna bow out of the conversation here. It was great hearing everyone's thoughts on this, and if I insulted anyone at any point I'm truly sorry. It was not my intent.

Sorry I didn't get across my point corrctly! I completely disagree with the entitled idea that anyone has the right to call him homophobic because heaven forbid he doesn't ship their ship. I was just referring to the idea that many fans have (regardless of ship) that there have been times when the character has come off on screen as less than heterosexual.

My opinion on this depends on what you consider throwing shade at the actor. If you are referring to those people who have lambasted him by marking him as homophobic etc then I'd totally agree! No actor should be labelled as such simply because they don't happen to ship a pairing some fans would like to see happen. On the other hand, I've seen some people who consider the very idea of people arguing that Dean's action could be construed as bi-sexual as offensive. They've argued that seeing an interpretation that Jensen did not intend is an insult to his skills as an actor! And I personally disagree with this. As I mentioned in my last post it isn't just fans who are seeing this within Jensen Ackles' performance. On an official DVD/Blu Ray released by the show two officials from the show (a writer and a director) discuss how they too saw "Deans potential for love in all places" coming across in Jensens reaction. My argument is that if Jensen finds fans believing that Dean is bi-sexual offensive because it goes contrary to his intentions that's totally fine. However, if he wants this to stop perhaps he should reflect on his performances to date and consider what he could change to make it less subjective, as I think when you have a writer and a director commenting on it also it's more than just fans seeing what they want to see. Also just to make sure this is clear. I do not think the show will ever go down the bi-sexual Dean route. I'm simply stating that I can relate to those fans who genuinely see Dean being portrayed as bi-sexualish at times. Some of whom don't even have a ship they favour. This is just how they see Dean based on how he has being played. Sorry if my remark has been taken the wrong way! I did not mean to cause anyone offence and I apologise for any that may have been taken. Its not that I don't think men can acknowledge another as good looking or admire them. However, in my experience people (men or women) tend to act differently around those they have an actual crush on than they do around people they feel nothing but complete friendship for. There's a difference between the abstract "he's a good looking guy" and "he's sooooooo handsome". There's a difference between friendly gestures of afffection between friends and the more awkward ones displayed around someone you really like. Deans behaviour just came across as more of the latter than the former for me. Also if I'm honest I picked that example because it was the first that came to mind and I wanted to avoid any scenes involving Cas (or Sam) so this remained strictly about Deans general sexuality rather than turning into a specific ship debate :)

* cough* the cleaners *cough* I would agree with you on the fact that he was right to tell the truth! If I were still invested in Destiel I would rather be told the truth than strung along and disappointed in the long run. In regards to his seemingly different attitude towards fans, of course that could be it! However, what I will say is that if it were true I would consider it very unfair! In my opinion a certain subset/fringe of the bi-bro fandom have done equally awful things over the years! They've sent hate to their wives over social media, they've started campaigns such as the "fire misha Collins" one from a few years back and they've spread false rumours. Again, I would like to reiterate the fact that this only applies to a very, very, small but sadly loud subset. I've personally engaged with many pleasant and thoughtful bi-bro fans over the year and wouldn't tar them all with the same brush. So I think (if it was what he was doing) it would be very unfair to harshly judge one group and not the other. In regards to the issue of Dean's sexuality, setting aside shipping be it Destiel or Wincest, I am going to make the very controversial statement that I don't think Jensen has done himself any favours. I am of the opinion that there have been several scenes over the years where he has not played it with the right note, if he didn't want people to consider the idea Dean may be potentially into men. For instance the whole Dr Sexy thing. He may have intended it to be a fannish, but it came across as more like a crush. Furthermore, I just put on my season eight blu Ray and Ben Edlund (writer) and Eric Scriggia (director) state the following (in regards to Jensen's acting choice) about Dean's very first scene with Aaron. (For anyone who wants to source check, this exchange can be found in the director commentary for Everybody Hates Hitler roughly sixteen minutes into the episode) IMO, if you have a writer for the show and a director remarking on Jensens acting choices suggesting this then perhaps he should reflect on how he has chosen to play certain scenes. Again just my opinion and this is not a slight against Jensens overall acting ability. In general I consider him to the strongest the show has. I guess it's true that he did at least apologise to Castiel. Honestly, it's probably just a case of I initially over reacted because of Jensen's "tool" remark at the time and that's a residual bitterness that has stuck with me since. I totally agree with you on the early season 8 storyline! Sam was totally short changed here and they could have handled it better by even adding the paragraph you mention above. In regards to this season I'm of two minds. On the one hand, I'm glad they aren't being all melodramatic and "I'll never put anything before you." On the other hand, I do think that we could do with them talking more whether to each other or even others. I mean we haven't even gotten direct dlalogue on how they're dealing with mary's attitude and I fear we won't get overly much on how they feel about her betrayal either. So I do miss their talks that gave us explicit insight into their current thoughts on events.

Since I touched on it in my last post another UO of mine is that Jensen isn't much of a fan of the friendship between Dean and Cas. The reason I think this is the fact that a) he has given several interviews where he describes Castiel as nothing more than a tool (or similar unflattering descriptions) over the years and b) there appears to be a clear difference between how he acts around bi!bro and Wincest fans at conventions compared to when he is around Dean!Cas and Destiel fans. With the former he appears happy to be jokey and teasing, while with the latter his guard goes up and he becomes as close to hostile as one can get without actually being hostile. I use the terms bi!bro, Wincest, Dean!Cas and Destiel because obviously not every bi!bro fans support them romantically like Wincest fans do nor does every Dean!Cas fan want Destiel. And obviously this is only my opinion based on what I've observed over the years and not fact since I don't know Jensen to ask him for a definitive answer On the other hand, I do think Misha loves exploring it so that's good :D

BiB: EXACTLY! It was just awful, awful writing and behaviour! And I totally agree! The Sam and Dean of season 12 are much more fun to watch and far easier to root for! I actually stopped watching the show in the middle of season 9. I was only lured back last summer when a friend assured me they'd become decent people again and no longer in the endless conflict cycle. Ooh that's a good point about Claire! I hadn't thought of it that way before. I should clarify that I don't ship them and purely enjoy them as friends. I've always enjoyed the rare Sam and Cas scenes we got and I'd include their scenes in Reading is Fundamental and First Born as some of my favourites on the show. Well I mean different people react to things differently :) I also think that I was extra tetchy at the time this episode first aired because this was a few weeks after the interview where Jensen 'charmingly' referred to Castiel "as just a tool" to the brothers.

@catrox14 (I can't figure out how to edit a post to include a new quote) Which I addressed when I said I have no problem with him throwing Castiel out. I get why he did that. It was his behaviour in the aftermath I found unforgiveable.

Honestly, it doesn't really help, but thanks for trying -hugs-. As I said I don't even mind that he threw Cas out. There was never going to be a scenario where he was going to go like "alright zeke off you go. We can gamble on Sam's life so Cas can stay". If there's one consistent characterisation we've gotten from Dean over the years it's that Sam comes first. What I object to is his complex and utter regard for him and disinterest in helping him make the best of the situation. Instead he leaves him completely helpless and then dares to stroll in as though nothing happened and start belittling him for trying to make an honest living. Im sorry but Dean was just an awful, awful friend here. Not because he threw Cas out of the bunker, but because of how he handled the situation after that. If he had even shown remorse for the lack of help I might have forgiven him, but the disdain he displayed for Cas' choices annoyed me even more. As I said I've learnt to start (tentatively) enjoying their scenes again, but there's still a reticence that'll probably always be there. These days I actually enjoy Sam and Castiel's interactions a lot more :)

I'm now remembering why I hated season nine Dean so much! Not only did he throw Castiel out to the wolves, but he now has the audacity to come and judge Castiel for making the best of it and trying to earn an honest wage. Shut up Dean! Just shut up! You have no right to judge him. We know Gadreel was capable of altering Sam's memory so he could easily cover up a reveal like that. As @Aeryn13 said he had Cas chucked out to cover himself in case Castiel figured out he wasn't Ezekiel. The Winchesters always seem to have a decent amount of money they've gained from hustling or credit card scams. As far as I'm concerned if Dean truly cared about Castiel then there was so much more he could have done. He could have provided him with ill gained credit cards with enough money to help him get settled somewhere (it's not like the Winchesters are above credit card fraud), he could have sent him to Garth, he could have set him up in a motel room somewhere. I think I've mentioned in the past that I once shipped Destiel! This was the moment when that ended! I've learnt to somewhat enjoy their friendship again, but its never been the same for me from when Dean did this.

I'm just starting a rewatch of Heaven Can't Wait and I STILL hate that Dean threw him out with no money, no credit cards or protection. I don't even mind that Dean threw Cas out. The show has long established Sam will always come first for Dean. What I hate is that he did so in a way that threw him to the wolves, that left him homeless, alone and completely without protection in spite of having heaven and hell after him. /end rant

Personally, I don't think she's soulless, but if they're heading in that direction she'll probably get a The Man Who would Be King style episode that delves into her motivations!

I like the idea of Cas being written out in such an open way! It would be a much more satisfying ending than him dying that's for sure. I wouldn't be surprised if the plan was to replace him with Samantha Smith. She has already been acting as a series regular in everything but name. So far it is known she will be in nine episodes this season (12x01-03, 12x06, 12x09, 12x12-12x14 and 12x17), which matches the number Misha has had as a regular in the past. Also that is only as far as episode 17. There is a good chance she will be in several more before the end of the season, which would make her match the 11-13 episodes Mark and Misha have been in the last few seasons. Plus the inclusion of a woman as a series regular would also help to combat the complaints about a lack of diversity the show has received in the past.

I asked the same thing in the ratings thread! Monday was president day in the US! This means while broadcast ratings are arriving as normal finals are delayed. Since it's the weekend finals probably won't arrive until tomorrow :(