Wayward Son

That explanation makes sense @DittyDotDot! I don't mean any offence to Glynn because I do think she's a good writer, but it's always struck me as an odd choice to give her a Cas centric episode when she has never written him before. Makes sense that it was actually a Berens episode but she was called into help last minute. Also major mistake on my part... I thought it was Perez not Berens she'd be working with... Whoops haha

My best guess is that the episode was originally Glynn's, but since it was Cas centric she requested help or was told that Perez would be aiding her. Since Cas wasn't/won't be present in any of her solo episodes it's probably too much to ask her to write him in depth so soon.

Hi @Aeryn13, To answer the bit in bold it is indeed Glynn who wrote episode sixteen. She is also a co-writer for episode 19 (the other writer is Perez and it's the Amanda Tapping directed episode). 19 is meant to be extremely Cas centric, but maybe Dean has a central role in that story too. Could explain why they've been teamed together.. Perez for Cas, Glynn for Dean and then they both like Sam and can share him haha

We'll have to disagree :) . I think they've selfishly put themselves and the other above others (and the world in general) too many times to be considered heroes. I don't think they're bad men, far from it, but I don't consider them heroic either. Ah perhaps I've misused the word anti-hero. I still stand by my belief that they don't qualify as actual heroes.

They've just started filming episode 19 :)

The demon was named Tom! I'm not sure if the vampire had a name though :)

The scene you're thinking of is from Metamorphosis. Here's the transcript for the scene in question (source: supernaturalwiki)

My UO: I don't consider the Winchester's (or Castiel for that matter) as heroes. I'd consider them anti-heroes at best.

I read the scene differently. The two of them were quizzing her on where the vampires went. She said to "hunt the hunters" and Dean and Ketch both understood immediately what that meant and shared a significant look. The look just didn't portray a sense of panicked "OMG MUM" to me.

It took me longer than I expected, but I finally finished my review of this weeks episode if anyone is interested in reading my thoughts. The Raid by Robert Berens is a Winchester family centric episode, which focuses on the consequences of Mary’s shocking confession at the end of Family Feud. Throughout the course of this episode we get to see the brothers differing reactions to their mother’s actions, we gain insight into the inner workings of the British Man of Letters, and it culminates in Sam making a shocking decision. Overall, I would consider the episode a success, but there are several characterisation issues that must be addressed in future if I am to consider it a great episode rather than a decent one. Mary: “I am your mother, but I am not just a mom and you are not a child” Dean: “I never was” The episodes opening scene was a continuation of last weeks closing scene and this was the perfect choice. I confess that I had fears they would gloss over what was said and skip straight to the fallout. I would have considered that path a serious failing, as I feel it was important that we got to see what was said by the characters. We needed to hear how Mary tried to justify her actions, if only to confirm what we had already suspected, and we needed to see first hand the brother’s reaction, in order to truly understand why the three of them behaved the way they did throughout the rest of the episode. What I loved about this confrontation was that Dean was able to express his hurt while remaining true to the man we know. He was allowed to express his anger upon learning that her manipulations led to the near death of Castiel, and he was allowed to express the hurt he felt at learning that she didn’t just need space, she needed space away from them. He was even allowed to berate Mary about a long term grievance namely the fact he was never given the opportunity to be a child due to the choices made by Mary (and John). What made the scene even better was the silent support offered by Sam throughout the speech. He didn’t judge Dean. Instead, he backed him up and even reiterated Dean’s request that she leave. Even if he had his own misgivings, Sam was wise enough to know his brother needed some time before they interacted with her again. I do think that Mary misunderstood what Dean was saying, whether that misunderstanding was genuine, or an attempt to assuage a guilty conscience is much more difficult to determine. Despite what Mary seems to thinks, Dean was never asking her to be the stereotypical mum who makes PB&J sandwiches and spends her days tending to their needs. What he wants, no what he needs, was some sign from her that she was interested in forming a familial relationship. At the moment she’s been treating them as allies more than anything i.e. people to be contacted when she needs help with something. I can understand that Mary may be experiencing feelings of confusion, and she is still reeling from the trauma of finding herself in this strange new world. However, she has failed to display any true empathy for the plight of her sons, as she is too consumed by her own thoughts and feelings. Therefore, Dean’s anger at learning that she had aligned herself with a cause he considers contrary to his own is hardly surprising. As far as I am concerned Sam and Dean’s reactions in the days that followed were perfectly in character. Dean has always been the one to find it harder to forgive actions he perceives as acts of betrayal. For instance, back in season seven, while Sam had reached a point where he was able to speak to Castiel with compassion by Reading is Fundamental Dean was still focused on his anger as shown through his declaration “nobody cares that you’re broken”. Therefore, Sam being the first to consider reaching out to Mary was not at all surprising and true to established behaviours. I also don’t see his position as refusing to pick a side. Sam has been shown to pick a side. He picked Dean’s side. He simply has reached a point where he no longer wants this rift to be something that separates the three of them permanently. I feel Sam’s amazing capacity for forgiveness lies in his self-esteem issues. He knows (and still feels guilty about the fact) that he has made some serious mistakes in the past. He is able to forgive people because he appreciates just how valuable the forgiveness Dean has extended to him is and he wishes to offer that to others. However, it was not long before Sam behaviour began to become difficult for me to accept. I can understand that he would have wanted to go and see Mary after reading an ‘urgent message’. However, I am extremely disappointed that he felt the need to lie to Dean about it. He could have easily mentioned where he was going with the added message ‘will explain later’. Dean would not have liked it. There is no point in trying to deny that, but I think he would have ultimately accepted Sam’s right to determine whether or not he wants to see her. One of the things I’ve enjoyed most about the last two seasons is the unity between the brothers displayed. Sam and Dean were finally moving out of the toxic rut of secret keeping the writers were so fond of during seasons eight till ten. I was disappointed to find that the writers seem to be dipping back into that, if Sam’s behaviour here and his decision at the end of the episode is anything to go by. While I’m on the subject I do not find Dean’s decision to work with Ketch comparable to Sam’s decision to work with Mary and the others as the episode seemed to suggest. There was a clear difference between the two scenarios. When Dean told Sam he was going out for a drink he meant it. Mr. Ketch did not enter the picture until after Sam was gone. Sam, on the other hand, deliberately withheld information from Dean by keeping the note left as vague as possible. In regards to the apology between Dean and Mary I have mixed feelings on the matter. On the one hand, it was true to Dean’s character. It makes sense to me that he would panic when he thought he might lose Mary again, and this panic would lead him to the conclusion he doesn’t want to cut her out of his life just because she’s made some bad choices. However, there was something about the wording that didn’t sit quite right with him. It almost seemed as though Dean’s legitimate complaints, which I touched on earlier, had been reduced to him complaining because Mary refused to be a full time mother to him. On the other hand, I liked the fact that Dean reiterated the fact that he still disliked her choices. As far as I am concerned this is the most mature way to behave i.e. giving your honest opinion, rather than behaving like a yes man, while acknowledging that others have the right to make decisions contrary to your wishes. However, to remain true to the nature of Dean’s earlier complaints, I wish he had added the condition that he would respect her provided she didn’t lie and try to manipulate them again. A quick note but I’m so happy Dean did not join in when Sam and Mary expressed approval of the unpleasant methods the Men of Letter’s use to deal with rogue hunters. This showed that Dean has managed to maintain a sceptical attitude when it comes to the British Man of Letters. Sam: “I am in… Look, tonight was bad, no doubt, but the alpha vampire is dead. You’re changing the world and I want to be a part of it” Mick: “And your brother?” Sam: “Give me some time” In addition to the Winchester family drama, one of the key purposes of this episode was to provide us with insight into the inner workings of the British Man of Letters. Before I discuss that, I want to point out that I utterly disapprove of the method Mary used to get Sam to the British Man of Letters base. The fact that she used ‘urgent’, a word which should not be used lightly by hunters, shows she has not learnt from Dean’s speech. She is still willing to try and manipulate the boys in order to get what she wants. I’m extremely disappointed by that, and I’m finding it increasingly difficult to remain sympathetic to Mary and her story as a result. This episode has reinforced something I’ve suspected for a while now; the British Man of Letters are nowhere near as impressive as they would have us believe. I know that Mary makes reference to them ‘roughing it’, but I still find it hard to believe that an organisation as strong as they claim to be would settle for what seems like a rather dingy base with average technology at best. Worse still, the personnel involved are utterly sub-par; do they really think that one decent hunter (Mr. Ketch), a charming sales guy (Mick), a research and development guy and a security woman are adequate provisions for clearing America of monsters? I am increasingly getting the impression that they are a lot more incompetent than they’d have us believe, and they are trying to throw people off the scent by making use of fancy looking weaponry. The incompetency of the British Man of Letters was further highlighted when their operation went south and the situation grew direr. I loved the fact that Sam and Mary (who was following the instructions of Sam) instantly took control of the situation without any protest from the others around them. It was a striking contrast between the two groups. It showed us that in spite of their fancy technology and weaponry, when it comes down to it, the Winchesters are the superior hunters. The British Man of Letters don’t even come close to Sam, Dean and Mary. It’s clear to me, that in spite of Mr. Ketch’s protests, the British Man of Letters know they need Sam and Dean more than the brothers need them. It is the consistent incompetency displayed that made Sam’s decision to join them all the more baffling. Up until now he has been strongly against them, and understandably so due to the torture he faced at the hands of Lady Toni, and there was nothing in this episode that would have feasibly changed his mind about the matter. Personally, I hope that he is just playing them in a bid to destroy them from the inside, and we will learn that through a discussion with Dean next week. Otherwise, I struggle to understand where he is coming from, and I will find his sudden allegiance as disappointing as I found his decision to lie to Dean earlier in the episode. Mr Ketch: “The men of letters is an excellent fit for someone with our inclinations” Dean: “Our? As in you and me?” Mr. Ketch: You’re a killer Dean Winchester, and so am I, and if we go too long without something to track or trap or punch or gut well things get a bit ugly. Don’t they?” Just like his encounter with Mary last week I feel the show is using Mr. Ketch as the unreliable narrator. He is providing us with some insight into how he and the Man of Letters perceive the Winchesters. Some of the thing he says is true, but ultimately he fails to comprehend the more nuanced aspects of their psyche, which results in the creation of a rather general description those who don’t know them well could believe. The show has long explored the idea that Dean has a darker side to him, a side that could easily lead him down a very, very dark path if Dean allows it go unchecked. An early example of this occurred back in Bloodlust when Dean quickly bonded with Gordon Walker due to the mutual enjoyment they got out of the violence that being a hunter entailed. Likewise, he was said to have returned from purgatory rejuvenated due to the fact that he thrived under the kill or be killed circumstances that world provided. We were also told that he was only able to bear the Mark of Cain due to the killer instinct he possessed. Therefore, in my opinion, it would be difficult to argue there wasn’t a grain of truth behind Mr. Ketch’s words. However, what distinguishes Dean from Mr. Ketch and other sociopaths like him is the fact that Dean only applies these impulses to the beings that deserve him. We have seen him allow well meaning ‘monsters’ such as Lenore, Kate and Benny to go over the years. Dean is not just a killer and he is far from a sociopath. While Dean has his darker edges at his core lies the heart of a good man. This is further shown within the episode itself. While Mr. Ketch was happy to beat the information out of the vampire Dean was much more reluctant to do so preferring to offer her a merciful death instead. His actions in that scene clearly demonstrate that while Dean is willing to do what it takes to get the job done he is not the type to do so for the sake of it. Other Notes • “You almost killed Cas”, this season is definitely the best season since season eight for showing us that Dean cares about Castiel, even when the angel isn’t around, and I love it! Long may this continue <3. • Does Mr. Ketch have a crush on Mary perhaps? He certainly seems to admire her, as he sees similarities between the two of them, and this could also explain why he holds her in such esteem and considers her “the best Winchester”. • For the most part Jensen’s acting was amazing as always. He especially sold Dean’s hurt and anger during the opening scene. However, there was a rare moment when his performance was a let down for me. At the end of the episode they implied that Dean was panicked at the thought of losing Mary again and that is why he apologised to her. However, during the scene when the vampire revealed the others had gone to “hunt the hunters” I didn’t get a sense of panic from Dean. He was portrayed as far too cool for someone who had just learnt their mum was in danger.

Can I ask what episode you're referring to? And it might be best if you respond in the all episodes thread in case we go off topic :) <3

Nice to hear from someone else who finds it a mixed bag! I have usually found the season produces strong feelings of love or hatred, so it is nice to encounter someone else who is sitting on the fence so to speak.

Ah fair enough. Thanks for clarifying that <333 It's a good thing I have a full series rewatched planned for this year because I definitely need it haha.

It's been a while since I watched Trial and Error, so it might contradict me, but as far as I remember he could only hear them back in season 3 because he was "piercing the veil". Was there a point after that he could hear them?

Finals are in! We maintained the 0.6 rating and viewers rose slightly to 1.63 million.

@DittyDotDot @Geordiegirl1967 In regards to season seven. I'm one of the rare few that neither hates or loves the season. I have very mixed views on the season, which is why it comes in the middle when I rank the seasons. Overall, season seven wasn't to my personal tastes. However, I do have respect for the work behind it as I feel it had a consistent, and occasionally enjoyable, narrative. Death's Door was an absolutely phenomenal episode for instance. My overall thoughts on the season ( as I mention in more detail above) comes down to; "Sam and Dean good. Everything and everyone else atrocious". So that's why my thoughts are mixed. Parts I enjoyed, others... not so much.

I agree with all of this @companionenvy! Very well said.

Oh I don't expect they will make this connection canon. It was more of a sarcastic musing while I commented on how not exciting I find the concept of alpha hellhound haha. I do love that the glasses are back and we are getting some Crowley / Dean interaction though.

Just seen the promo.. Cas appears for about a second. Good to know not to expect him to be in more than a scene or two. Based on both the promo and some stills released it seems like Crowley and Dean will be the key characters this week. I think those two can bounce well off each other so I'm pleased with that. ETA: (Just to make sure I stay on topic of spoilers... although I wasn't complaining just observing) I'm a little bit "eh" about the whole "the" hellhound. Unless they're going to amaze us and make it "the hellhound" that ripped Dean to shreds long ago I'm not interested. Some alpha hound sounds eye roll worthy to me.

I was hoping for a slight increase in overall viewers, but I'm not that surprised. Whatever way you look at it there wasn't much to draw viewers in. Last weeks episode wasn't particularly good and the promos didn't seem to draw much online buzz either.

I haven't had a chance to watch yet (boo time zones and being stuck in work), but from what I've read it sounds like a miracle of miracles has happened and this Sam fan is going to be firmly on Dean's side.

I assume that was just so they could begin the recruitment process we saw them try on Wally during First Blood. Funnily enough that I can recall Alex, Jodie and Donna are probably the only true human recurring characters we have. If we are being truly strict about it. The brothers are resurrected beings and Angel vessels, Mary's a resurrected being, Cas and Crowley are obvious, Claire Novaks a vessel, Rowena is a witch and Garth is a werewolf. What other alive allies do they have? Haha

I think at the very least they'd suspect something is wrong. Samantha Smith / Mary definitely does not look like the 60 odd she's meant to. She's only 8 years older than Jensen and it definitely shows on screen. Thats not a slight at her or Jensen btw. They both look great for any age haha

Could they turn on them and Mary at the same time and attempt a family extermination? After all a woman who has returned from the dead after thirty odd years is hardly what I'd call normal haha

That storyline was such a waste of potential. Carver had actually laid foundation that could have made it interesting i.e Sam made the decision to not try and resurrect Dean and potentially ruin things by messing with the natural order. It could have been an amazing self analysis of the brothers. They could have discussed the fact such deals had led to the apocalypse in the past. They could have argued and debated was it right to put each other first? Or was it selfish to put the world at risk for the sake of one person? Instead they decide to just make Sam look like the horrid abandoner and the brothers turn into petty children. @ILoveReading i think that's an interesting possibility about them going after Castiel, Crowley, Garth and Rowena. I'd be curious to see what Mary would do if they turned on their allies. Would that make her see the light of day, or serve as the permanent split between her and the boys.