luna1122

We don't know. You didn't not pay attention, they just didn't tell us. They appeared to be unpacking. They were back in L.A. Maybe they live together in a new place. They haven't bothered to actually fill us in.

Sadly, it really really is not. Racism is just as alive and festering today as it was back then. I don't think we've learned much of anything as a society from the unlawful and constitutional internment of Japanese or German Americans. We're primed to do it all again. I don't believe anyone--including Bowen or any of the celebs on this show--believe they are defined by what their ancestors did, but it would be very hard for most of us to discover we had slave owners or Nazis or KKK-ers or whatever in our past.

This was my fave episode so far. I don't know if it advanced anything, explained anything or was just weird, but I found it magickal and beautiful, like a Charlie Kaufman meets Micheal Gondry film on the small screen. I loved it.

Randall might have but I did read an interview yesterday where Sterling himself said it. But maybe he's kind of just quoting his own character, I don't know.

My relationship is the most important thing to me too, but she handled the situation, the guy knew where she stood, there was no ambiguity. I don't know, it just doesn't seem like that big a deal to me. She was right to tell Jack about it, she should have (tho I wonder if he'll tell her about the chick from the office putting the moves on him) but I'm just not feeling that she had to bail on the whole thing just cuz her ex made a bad move. Maybe I'm wrong.

It didn't occur to me she'd bail on the performance just cuz that guy hit on her, or that she should. Women get hit on all the time, we don't just quit our responsibilities or jobs or gigs, and her ex (I can't remember his name) wasn't harassing or pressuring her after the initial move--I assume he would have let if drop after she made it clear it was a no go. I don't know, had it been me, I'd have still stayed, even after Jack acted a drunken fool. I'd have taken away his keys so he couldn't drive, finished the gig and then worried about all the rest of it. I assume the band still went on without her, I hope. Yeah, watching card games is endlessly dull to me too. and it doesn't help when they show me the hand they got dealt, I have no idea what it means cuz I'm poker-illiterate. But even I know you don't win and then bolt.

Didn't Sterling Brown say 'Jack died as he lived'?....which: how does he know? They've really filled the cast in on something that's not going to happen til at least next season? Tho, with this show, who knows, it might still be seven years down the road? Ugh. I agree, they've dragged this out so much that by the time it's revealed, it had BETTER be something crazy and unimagined. He's murdered, in defense of his family? Takes down a terrorist on a plane, in defense of his country? Mauled by coyotes, struck by lightning, crushed by livestock? Hard to work out Kate feeling responsible, but she'll figure out a way to do that. I'm still unconvinced the writers or show runners even know for sure themselves, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

Omigosh, that made me laugh. Kiss of death. I've mentioned it before, but my significant other is a musician. He teaches at a school for the blind, he teaches private lessons, and he does local gigs with various bands. He's often got gigs on the weekends. We don't have kids; sometimes I go, more often, after 12+ years together, I do not, as it eventually sort of becomes like going to your partner's job, and you don't really do that. Very occasionally, he's had an out of town gig overnight; again, sometimes I go, sometimes not--no kids, but I can't take off work for that. If he were to have the opportunity to go on a two week 'tour' out of town, I would not be thrilled. All of the things Jack said and thought: I might also think. Not like you're gonna get rich and famous from this. You're almost 40. It's silly. Add in dark bars and booze and I might also get insecure and jealous, and that's WITHOUT a sexy ex also in the band. So I get Jack. I kind of hope this situation never does come up, but I also hope I'd handle it better than Rebecca and Jack did. I DO wonder why Rebecca hasn't gotten at least a part time day job after the kids were a certain age, but that apparently is something she and Jack worked out/agreed on/whatever, and presumably she's bringing in at least a little $$ from her gigs. Ha. Billy Jack. I'm curious about why, in Jack's portentous VO, it seemed as if Kevin's choice to go for the Ron Howard audition was a bad one. Just cuz he might lose Sophie--not that that is an insignificant thing, but is that the only reason? Can Kevin really not keep it in his jeans if he's away from Sophie? Doesn't really sound like mythic love. I'm assuming, tho, there is slightly more to the Kevin cheating years ago story than JUST that. Yep.

I think the fight was just a lot of low blows and half truths, said in the heat of the moment. Like most fights. I don't believe Rebecca feels her life is nothing or pointless. I don't believe Jack thinks her singing is pathetic; it's what made him fall for her in the first place. I think they were just both being ugly. I also don't think Rebecca is a bad person for wanting to sing. I don't think she's expecting to get famous or rich, I think it's just that singing is the thing that is hers, and it makes her feel, you know, most alive. We all have that thing. Most of us don't get to live it or make it our career, but it doesn't mean we give it up altogether. I am absolutely not on board with the idea that wanting to pursue it every now and then, even, heavens forfend, taking a couple weeks to travel to do it, makes her a bad wife or a bad mom or a bad person. She wasn't doing it for money or fame, or to get laid by the ex, who she shut down immediately. She just wants a little something that's only hers. I get Jack not being happy about it, feeling threatened by it, but his reaction, and his drinking, were over the top, and his attitude that she should just be happy being home while he provides was a little misogynistic. Jack is not a saint, just because he makes long winded pretty speeches (which I really get tired of before they're done, no matter how pretty Milo is). That said, I also hate the 'throw the guy out of the house' thing after a fight. Separations are rarely, in my experience, a good thing, and very often lead to divorce. Stick it out, fight it out, stay together, or don't, but there's no 'we were on a break' from a real relationship, imo. I read that Rebecca's toying with the moon necklace at the end was actually not scripted, that when a tear fell down Mandy's face, it fell onto the moon and she instinctively reached for it. I don't know if I believe that, it sure appeared to be planned, and it really seems like a touch these writers would have gone for, but who knows. If it really was just serendipitous, it's kind of nice.

Jessa is my fave 'girl', probably just because I like the actress, but I don't disagree with anything you wrote about her. Except that she's the worst. That's Marnie. I don't really want neat bows and unlikely happy endings for any of them, because that's not life. Some messiness and some disappointments and some unexpected happenings and some WTF moments are what I hope for at the end, but I don't want any of them completely alone or unhappy. Not even Marnie. Well, maybe Marnie.

Yikes. My objection to Rebecca running out on her date is that it was all so cheesy. That's pretty much always my objection to this show. Jack not even bothering to show up for his blind date because he was suddenly presented with a more tempting offer, and save him from a life of crime, or whatever...also cheesy. Asshole moves on both their parts, but you know, it's all for true love, or something. Rebecca is not running out on her family just because she wants to take a couple weeks to go do the thing she loves. NOT go do the piano player, who she immediately shut down. Jack's out getting drunk at a bar (where he's also hit on by the office chick) but somehow Rebecca is a mercenary delusional slut? oh, okay.

Oh, Jack was an asshole for standing his date up too.

Because manipulation is what the show is all about. I think the show runners really oversold and overhyped this episode and had everyone all anticipating the big death. People laid in supplies of Kleenex and eagerly prepared to cry their eyes out. It's kind of funny that I'm seeing comments all over Facebook bemoaning the lack of drama and twists and tears for this one. People are actually angry the episode didn't make them cry til they had to change their tear soaked jammies. I think the producers really need to dial back in the promises that every episode will be the most gut punching one yet. It makes casual fans like me roll their eyes (and pretty much guarantee I'm never gonna cry over it), and it possibly alienates the fan base that really loves the weeping and emotional heart wrenching I think tonight's episode was fine, and nicely acted, even if it was all a big 'what killed jack?' misdirect. The fight was real and pretty ugly. Most of us have probably had some version of that fight in some relationship or other. I see both sides; they're both right and they're both wrong. The meet cute was way too cute, and the obligatory monologue was---there. Ditching a blind date is pretty rude--I have ditched one, long ago, when the arty shaggy tatt'd cute guy turned out instead to be a homophobic d-bag, but Rebecca just had to follow that dream!! Of course, it was fate. She had to be in that bar at that specific moment to save jack from a life of crime with her songbird voice. Whatevs. I don't care about Randall adopting a baby, like, at all, but he has to have his own big three, I guess. I predict it will be a little white boy, for the symmetry. 'Into the mystic' is so overplayed in movies and TV but it still gets me every damn time.

The only other role I knew him from was Young & Restless, where he replaced an actor I liked very much. I didn't expect to much care for a replacement. Within a week, i accepted him fully. The role was of a dark, broody character who was also sarcastic and quippy, and he sold it all for me. Do I think he's on par talentwise with sterling brown or ron Cephus jones? Absolutely not. Do I think he's as talented as Chrissy, Mandy or milo? Um, yeah, absolutely.

Oh, me too.

I think Jemima has resting bitch face; I do too, so I don't see cruel or grimace-y, but I get why some would. I got called bitchy and stuck up all my life, when really I was just an introvert with RBF. I love how subjective it all is...what seems undeniably unspeakably beautiful to me might just be meh to someone else, and vice versa. And the undeniably beautiful doesn't necessarily mean, as you said TattleTeeny, that I think they're hot, and who I might find ridiculously hot might not be even close to stereotypically beautiful or handsome.

I now want to know who you find beautiful, just cuz I'm curious. Boys too.

Maybe it's time to get rid of the writers who come up with such bullshit scenarios. Me, I like watching Kevin. Justin Hartley was one of the three reasons I tuned into this show in the first place. He's the sole reason at least two people I know (one being my mom) keep watching at all. Kevin is a narcissistic golden boy, but he is endlessly charming and representative of real life guys I know. I don't always like him, but he often amuses me, and has an inherent sweetness. And he's so pretty.

I think Allison Williams is exceptionally pretty, tho too skinny. She looks a lot like Amanda Peet; both have that strong jaw and steely gaze, they should really play mom & daughter or aunt or sisters or something. No girl (or guy) has looks exceptional enough to justify asshole behavior (tho it happens all the time) but I'd think Jessa is more the kind of girl whose looks n demeanor would make a guy lose his wits for awhile. (and I usually think brunettes and redheads are more attractive than blondes, just in general, but Jessa/Jemima's boho sexy messy chic thing is very very pretty to me). She also seems like she'd be much more fun in bed, tho, you know, knifeplay would probably eventually be involved or something. People as animals: Elijah has a foxy face. An extremely adorable foxy face. I think Marnie is the worst, too. Wow, this post is shallow.

Fascism, then, if not nazism. And whether historically accurate or not, those types of boots have become a metaphor and a symbol for totalitarianism, and usually seen as Nazi related, so bowen's (and my) immediate and knee jerk reaction was to see a Nazi. Ignorant perhaps but, I think, understandable. Or not.

Point taken on the jackboots. But Big Charlie wasn't in the military. The APL were private citizens, correct? Big Charlie appears to have been playing dress up, like a soldier, when he hadn't earned it. Maybe everyone in the APL did, but it doesn't make the imagery any less disturbing, to me. I also just read that in the 20s, the APL recruited members of the KKK for their assistance. It was not an honorable organization to be involved in, and I don't blame Bowen for feeling dismay over Big Charlie at all.

I can't really imagine not being appalled or dismayed at seeing a relative in jackboots, looking for all the world like a Nazi. He DID look like a jerk, and he might well have seemed on par with a murderer to Bowen, given what his misguided zealotry might have led to. It would be like seeing your 2x great grandfather wearing a KKK hood. There is plenty of collective historical guilt to go around, and seeing that my ancestor had been so on the wrong side of history would definitely stir it up. And it is completely natural to draw parallels to what is going on now in the world. What's funny to me here is that I have NEVER liked Julie Bowen. I had a visceral dislike to her back on "Ed", when she played Jack's wife on "Lost", etc, and tho I think she's a gifted comedienne--I hate Claire on Modern Family, but acknowledge that Bowen is very funny playing her--I have always just found her, as someone upthread mentioned always 'on', in interviews, always trying too hard to please or entertain, seeming disingenuous, much the way Anne Hathaway comes off to me (and apparently others). So I was fully prepared to be eye rolling my way thru this episode. But...I liked her. Yeah, she seems high strung and actory, and yes, my politics clearly align with hers, so I felt a kinship to her reactions, as they would largely have been my reactions. But I think she was genuinely horrified to find out what Big Charlie had stood for, and genuinely happy to find an activist and abolitionist on the other, and I found it all pretty relatable and touching and interesting. Clearly most of those on ancestry finding her insufferable have politics that are diametrically opposed to hers, so, yeah, whatever. I give her a pass on seeming overly proud or drawing too many parallels to her own life, based on her ancestors, because it's pretty much what everyone who comes on here does.

That made me laugh too. If anyone has ever looked less like a rocker chick and more like a born grandma (tho she doesn't act like one), it's Loreen. I'm glad he came to his senses as well, and hope it sticks, but yeah, I have no sympathy for him when it comes to Marnie. He's the nerd who just wanted the beautiful girlfriend, even when she's an asshole, JUST because she was beautiful. I am one who sees the Adam/Hannah being endgame thing coming ,but I don't want it, so I hope those of you who do not see it are correct. Maybe Lena will have Hannah get the ultimate 'revenge': Adam will realize he still loves her, will dump Jessa and crawl back to Hannah...only to be told nope, she's not interested, and oh yeah, she's pregnant with a hot surfer guy's baby.

That's some attention to detail there, if so. Impressive.

You know, you're right, and I lazily oversimplified, like I also did about Hannah's becoming pregnant somehow being representative of all young women. They're just characters, and this is what has happened to them, or what the writers decided to make happen to them, and it's my own personal biases that I'm reacting to. Kids bore me, never wanted any, kind of hate it when main characters on shows I like have them, and get sick of it happening so much (Molly Dodd, Rachel, Miranda, Jamie, etc) even tho of course, more women than don't have babies. Not an indictment on the deliberately baby-less. And Loreen isn't representative of all divorced women. I just don't like her, either way, or her pathetic bitterness. I would seriously love that. It was a joke, not meant to be taken seriously. Figured that was clear, if not, mea culpa. I wondered that too. I have binged watched this show after not having HBO for years, but still missed the first couple episodes. The Hannah-actress-doppelganger looked so much like Lena, at first glance, that I was sure we were seeing a flashback at first. My honey also thought it was her. So I'm not really clear on if this happened as Adam has written or if not. And that chick's bottom was RED, so it looks like Driver really was whapping her good. Lucky girl. (also meant, sort of, in jest.)