shireenbamfatheon

Theon's been set up to go head to with Euron in order to save Yara and earn some cred, so even though Euron and Cersei are one faction, it's a separate storyline from the North/Dany/Jaime vs. Cersei one. I think it's a waste of time that could be spent on other characters but that's just me. It's not that I disagree about a potential Tyrion/Dany or Varys/Dany or even Jon/Dany conflict (I think the build up's there), I'm just doubtful they can successfully pull it off unless it's an underlying tension that's carried out until the season finale. I don't know. I suspect that when real spoilers start getting leaked, everyone's going to be in denial lol.

I feel like Tyrion's comment about Aegon the Conqueror building the wheel was a pretty big hint that a Targaryen restoration isn't going to happen. This is what I suspect as well, especially with NCW's most recent interview posted in this thread, but how on earth is there enough time to explore that arc without it appearing as inorganic? We already have three villainous factions in Cersei, Euron and the Night King. Unless each episode is two-hour-long, season seven is going to look like a masterpiece in terms of pacing compared to season eight.

Octavia can try to pretend the others are just as bad as her all she wants, it doesn't change the fact that even at their worst they still felt conflicted and, in Bellamy's case, felt genuine remorse for their actions. Octavia doesn't even see her opportunities as hard choices because she doesn't care enough for them to weigh on her conscience. When informed that Cooper was experimenting on living people, her reaction was to blink for a second before shrugging it off. When faced with the prospect of sentencing her friend Raven, who's currently being held prisoner by Diyoza, to a brutal and painful death, after Raven just saved the entirety of Wonkru a few days ago, she just shrugged it off and called Raven and the rest Bellamy's friends. This is what separates Octavia from the others; there is no limit to her brutality and no empathy to reign her in. On top of that, she's just throw-things-around-when-people-disagree levels of petty and incapable of introspection. I loved Jasper's letter to Monty and thought he was spot on in his assessment. Also pretty meta since the show really is going in circles, rehashing the same old character arcs and plot points. I still don't expect the season finale to end any differently than the others. If only The 100 had some nice things to say about humanity. Bellamy's sheepish hands-in-pockets stance when trying to talk to Indra was hilarious. I also loved his scene with Monty. These two actually have a pretty well-established friendship so I'm glad the show didn't ignore that. One thing that's disappointing is the lack of character interactions after six years apart. I'm thinking Bellamy-Kane, who have one of the better platonic relationships in the show, Monty-Octavia, who used to be friends but haven't spoken a word to each other, Abby-Raven, who eventually developed a mother-daughter relationship etc. This show is always so focused on the action-heavy scenes that they forget to capitalize on the smaller more intimate moments.

He's also comparing Sansa's character arc with Sandor's in the translation you posted, and considering it's pretty clear that Sandor's arc is one of redemption and there's no way they'll have him turn dark side in the next season, one could also speculate that in terms of development, Sansa reached her final developmental phase last season and that there won't be any plot twist where she turns traitor. That ship sailed when she refused the Northerners' offer to become Queen in the North. He's also positing Sandor's arc as well-written and one he likes before he follows it up with mentioning Sansa's character development and arc, so one would assume he likes her/it as well.

Interesting that NCW calling Sansa untrustworthy is noteworthy but him calling Daenerys cruel and mad isn't, and that the latter should be dismissed because he clearly didn't interpret her character and actions properly, but he's completely spot on in his assessment where the former is concerned. Very interesting.

They definitely do cover a lot, don't they? And I agree that there's not much to conclude based on adjectives alone. It is comforting, though, to see NCW so enthusiastic about the new season since he's always been so passionate about the series and hasn't been afraid to voice his displeasure at some of the previous writing choices where his own character is concerned.

It's an interesting quote nonetheless and makes me wonder if he's referring to his own arc or someone else's future one. He doesn't specify it. As for Cersei, she is a lot more grey in the show than the books. She's a villain at this point, but aside from the sept bombing which was done out of self-preservation, she's only targeted people who've hurt her in some way (unless I'm misremembering). They've whitewashed the hell out of her, but after four seasons with Ramsay I'm ok with a more nuanced villain in Cersei. Surprising, heartbreaking, shocking and satisfying. And he's talking about season eight as a whole and not just his arc. He's never been one to shy away from criticism so I'm going to trust him on this. People are going to believe what they want, and far be it for me to dictate anyone's feelings, but this whole "people expect the finale to be surprising so by not making it surprising it'll actually be surprising" seems... reaching.

But, like someone pointed out to her, at least when they committed atrocities they did it with the best of their own people in mind. Octavia doesn't even have that excuse because she's doing everything she can to maintain her grip on power. Her pursuits are entirely selfish and self-serving. Incorporating Madi into Wonkru is Octavia ensuring Madi's loyalty to her, and any uprising on behalf of Madi as the new Commander would give Octavia "just" cause to execute Madi for treason. It's quite obviously a way to get another contender out of the way, which is what Clarke tried to prevent by lying about her blood.

I doubt the point of the latest season was to show that Daenerys will eventually learn from her mistakes since this is a character arc they've been repeating for several seasons now, as I mentioned earlier in this thread. If Dany was supposed to have learned something, it should have been in season seven, since that was her and Tyrion's third season together and more than enough time on-screen to show this supposed learned lesson. The season ended with Daenerys once again acting impulsively, this time for a good reason, but it was an act that led to the Night King gaining a dragon and tearing down the Wall. Then there was the moronic decision to bring both her dragons to King's Landing as a power play, only for Cersei to realize that she'd lost one dragon already. The Varys and Daenerys scene was like getting hit in the face with an anvil in terms of foreshadowing. "If you do something I can't support, I'll turn cloak." "If you do, I'll burn you alive." Followed by "Tyrion, I feel like history is repeating itself and I don't want to support another mad monarch." and "Oh hey, Varys, your gal Mel here, did you know you'll die in this strange land?" As for the Tarly situation, I don't think she was remotely in the right. If people are spreading propaganda about Dany being her father reincarnated, then telling the Lannister and Reach men that she's there to free them from the oppressive rule of Cersei, only to offer them subjugation or death by fire is counterproductive and unnecessarily cruel, not to mention hypocritical. The complete lack of remorse and the ominous music just hammers it home that Tyrion and Varys' concerns are valid (or supposed to be). But I imagine everyone's going to interpret this differently because Daenerys is a polarizing character and a case can be made for both sides. NCW in an interview from last month: “You don’t really have heroes or villains, and when you think you have one, it turns.”[...] While avoiding any spoilers for the final season of “Game of Thrones,” Coster-Waldau is able to produce three words to describe Season 8: “Surprising. Enormous. Heartbreaking.” He thinks for a moment before coming up with three more, “satisfying, shocking and… heartbreaking again.”

Yeah, I know. I can't even pretend to be optimistic ? Interesting. I wonder if they're already dead prior to the roof collapsing or if it's the cause of death. Maybe Cersei if it's the former?

Beric's chances of survival are slim to none, right? :(

Why should there be a backlash if Jon becomes King of Westeros? Ruling Westeros is Dany's goal; Jon just wants to live a peaceful life somewhere far away from conflict. He's the only leader who has no desire to rule anything. Spending the rest of his life in King's Landing, a foreign place far away from home and his family, would make him absolutely miserable. Dany getting the Iron Throne would be a reward, because it's what she's wanted since halfway through season one, but Jon getting it would be a punishment, because it's the last thing he wants. He'd be even more desolate in King's Landing than Ned was. That seems like a terrible ending for Jon.

I feel like she had the strongest morals and conscience of anyone in the first two seasons. She and Finn were the only ones who actively tried to negotiate a truce with the Grounders. And when Finn later committed mass murder, she was horrified but still not onboard with his execution. And even later when TonDC occurred, she was outraged at Lexa and Clarke for allowing it to happen because she didn't believe in sacrificing innocent lives. She did hit Lincoln, which makes her abusive, but she didn't have too many atrocities under her belt. The potential for violence and the inability to admit any flaws within herself were still there, along with the petulance of a child, but not as pronounced as it later became in season three. The Octavia of the early seasons cared a lot about people. One of my favorite scenes in the show is Octavia yelling at Murphy not to harm Jasper. She was also Bellamy's conscience for a lot of the first season. I suppose Lincoln's death completely destroyed whatever sentimentality she still had left, but then the show never showed Octavia coming to the realization that she was spitting on Lincoln's memory by becoming the exact opposite of the person he admired and loved.

I don't think the show has shut the door on Daenerys turning dark side. This isn't the first time someone's been horrified by Dany doing something questionable followed by her backing down a bit and then rinse and repeat. In season four we had Barry's reaction to the crucifixions, leading to his eventual talk with her followed by Dany's own horrified reaction to the possibility of her becoming her dad. She calmed down a bit but then Barristan died and she did something bad again. Then Tyrion later had to talk her down from burning everyone, she listened but then did something questionable again. Every time it appears that she's learned some valuable lesson and changed, they repeat the same arc. They've played this scenario out so many times I'll be shocked if they won't follow through on it. The groundwork's all there anyway. Dragging out the R+L=J reveal until after Jon and Dany have fallen in love, their sex scene taking place while Bran revealed Jon was the true heir, one of D's own comments that, "Just as we're seeing these two people come together, we're hearing the information that will inevitably, if not tear them apart, cause them real problems in their relationship." Emilia Clarke talking about doing "weird shit" and her quote: “Knowing that is going to be a lasting flavor in someone’s mouth of what Daenerys is ...." which doesn't sound remotely positive to me or her talking about her acting experience rather than what, and not who, Daenerys is. Daenerys burning Jon's best friend's family, which he doesn't know about, along with the Vale and North's distaste for Targaryens and refusal to bend the knee to another non-Northerner. Then there's the scene with a very whitewashed Varys revealing that he truly serves the realm and that if he finds her lacking he'll turn on her, followed by him later fearing that she's just like her father. If nothing is supposed to come out of any of this beyond some minimal drama to prove how strong Jon and Dany's relationship is, I'll be shocked. "They'll come to see you for what you are," could just as easily be unknowingly foreboding as romantic. It's certainly the type of foreshadowing I can see GRRM including in his books. ETA: I don't think "mad" and "dark" are synonymous in this case.

The games did begin immediately. Octavia established them on the 57th or 58th day, following Kara's mutiny. The show then did a flashforward to present day where it had become the standard execution method. In the flashforward, Kara was standing by Octavia's side, completely loyal, and Octavia had her war paint on. I agree about Gaia, though. She's the true fanatic and the one to watch out for. I bet she had something to do with Kara's conversion as well. I don't know, pretty much everyone's done horrible things on this show, but Octavia's been so cringe-worthy these past two seasons (ugh at the wind line) and incapable of introspection. At least others have a hard time looking at themselves in the mirror, but Octavia has never admitted to any wrongdoing. And I really don't think Marie's versatile enough as an actress to portray a more nuanced picture of Bloodreina. I didn't like Lexa, but Alycia was great in the role. Marie seems to think a refusal to blink and whisper-talking constitutes good acting. A shame, because she was good in the earlier seasons.

Is Tyrion the only character besides Sam whose death no one's entertained? I don't think I've ever seen anyone fear for show!Tyrion's life, including me, yet I'm convinced his book counterpart's doomed.

I think my mind would have jumped to multiple other conclusions before "execution as entertainment" would have entered it. That's what I find so distasteful, and not so much the execution part as I understand why that'd be necessary for such a situation. The change from "I don't want to be a leader" to "Welcome to Gladiator 2.0." occurred within the span of a day. I honestly do not believe she was thinking very far when she thought up the punishment; her mind just grasped at what she'd read recently. Then again, I didn't expect much from Octavia. She's never been the diplomatic type or one for strategy. Just look at the way she handled the situation this episode. "The wind has not met Wonkru." Violence has always been in her blood. She's been physically violent towards everyone she loves in some capacity, so for her to rely on violence to get things done as a leader comes naturally to the character (and this is coming from someone who loved her up till season three.) She had the opportunity to show Wonkru a better way, but she took the Grounders and Sky Crew's worst qualities and dialed them up to a 10.

He's also one of the more candid actors on the show, so if he says the ending is satisfying I'm inclined to believe him. When he was asked about the multiple endings rumor, he was all "You really think they'd do that? You think they'd waste that much money? I think it sounds absurd." Nikolaj's great.

I love Nikolaj ?

I'm still amazed it took Octavia less than two months to resort to gladiator sports. This was her brilliant way of combating crime. And it's not like those two months were especially hard on her either since she was doing just fine chilling with Indra. But the moment things got tense and they counted on her to resolve a conflict, she went "why not have people kill each other as a form of entertainment?" Nevermind that there's nothing just about pitting criminals against each other and letting the strongest survive. Wouldn't that just encourage the most skilled Grounders to commit crimes multiple times because they'd be able to fight their way out of it?

D&D aren't going to waste characters like Sansa, Tyrion, Sam, Cersei, Varys and Davos because it's battle time and only Jon, Daenerys, Arya and Brienne get to shine. They've cast a lot of peasants for the next season so we'll possibly see some of the former interact with them and try to maintain order amongst the chaos. And knowing how much the showrunners love Lena, Peter and Liam, and how this is their last chance to score Emmy noms in the acting department for Peter and Lena, I'm sure we'll get lots of dialogue-heavy scenes.

Figures the only time we see her relax is off-screen.

Don't forget wanting Clarke to leave her mother to be bombed at TonDC or abandoning Clarke and her people to be tortured and killed at the hands of the Mountain Men. The showrunner's, and therefore characters', obsession with turning her into some messianic figure bugs the crap out of me. If anyone deserves to be remembered and put on a pedestal, it's Wells, who showed more decency and humanity in three episodes than anyone else but is sadly forgotten by everyone, including his best friend whom he came to the ground for... Can you tell I'm still bitter? As for this episode, I'm already tired of Octavia and I don't suspect it'll get better. I like the actress who plays Echo but still find it ridiculous that Bellamy is in love with a woman who collaborated in his girlfriend's death which led to him killing 300 people. I'd rather have seen him with Raven or Murphy. Didn't Rothenberg at one point claim that sexuality is a lot more fluid in the show and everyone's bisexual? Am I misremembering? Raven continues to be the best thing about The 100.

I thought it was a cop-out to make Veronica meek in the face of Betty's wrath just so the audience would feel sorry for her. And to add to the pity party, they also had Archie stress how miserable her home life is and how no one has any idea what she's going through. Aside from V crying in the last episode because everyone finally caught on to her family's shady dealings, which V happily helped them with, I don't see why her life's supposedly so difficult all of a sudden. It's not out of character for Betty to be judgmental, but they made her extra bitchy just to create sympathy for Veronica, which is just poor writing.

Yeah, I guess that it's too much to hope that the juxtaposition in the promo is hinting at an all-out Octavia vs. Bellamy war. I was so excited for this season, and I still am to some degree, but Morley saying that Octavia will be the main character of the season has significantly lowered my expectations. She'd officially taken over for Clarke when it comes to the "can do no wrong" character in the eyes of the writers last season.