Jeeves

Taking this to Small Talk.

@zoomama - thanks for checking in with us. And you had to do it one-handed. You rock! I hope your recovery continues to go well.

That's an excellent list! Here's info on two of the final cases on the list: That was the 2000 murder of Air Force Capt. Marty Theer. His wife Michelle's lover, Army Sgt. John Diamond, shot and killed Capt. Theer. It was planned by Michelle and Diamond. Diamond was caught/convicted, and Michelle went on the run in 2002, using false IDs, dyed hair, and plastic surgery to evade capture, but was caught in 2004. She was convicted and is serving a life sentence. That was Kenia Monge, who was killed by Travis Forbes in Denver. She was caught on CCTV at a couple of places downtown during that evening when she was out clubbing with friends, got drunk and separated from her friends. Travis claimed he'd offered her a ride home in his van - but she never got home. He said he'd stopped to get gas and she'd gotten out of the van there and gone off with some other people. But he'd killed her. He stored her body in a freezer before transporting it in his van to bury it out in the country. He also sexually assaulted and almost killed Lydia Tillman in Fort Collins, CO, shortly after killing Kenia.

I've just finished a binge watch of London Kills on Acorn. I watched Series 1 back in the day when it was the only series released and liked it. Never got back to it. Dropped Acorn, recently re-upped with Acorn. Finally started it all over from the first episode. It's not horrible, IMO, or I couldn't have watched it all. I didn't even use the FF key all that much, apart from my rewatch of the first series when I realized I'd remembered what happened and didn't want or need to see it again. OTOH it's not great; the magical instant forensics and tech induced eyerolls. (Sure, Jan, a body's found in the morning and you've got crime scene DNA results and relevant info from area CCTV by evening . . . yikes.) The episode plots got a bit formulaic, but that's a hazard of all detective series. However at least they keep the pace moving. A name pops up and the next scene the person's sitting in the interview room or answering questions on the street. No plodding around looking for them, which is okay by me. I liked the story arcs across each series, some stronger than others. Not saying they are fabulous actors, but I liked the ensemble cast. Sharon Small's the most accomplished actor. I tired of Hugo Speer's voice pretty fast. I wish they had given Tori Allen-Martin material requiring more than two facial expressions. I kind of don't care if Bailey Patrick can act, I just loved watching him be kind of a teddy bear. Ahem. If this show comes back for a new series, I wouldn't mind if David Bradford (Hugo Speer) doesn't come back. I'd love to see a strong male character (with an actor to match) to play against Sharon Small. And also, I know they have a small budget, but they HAVE to give us new London street scenes. There was some good videography of London, and I loved seeing it, but they've reused those shots to the max.

I agree. I don't want to underestimate the grifting efforts of Jill and David, but I think they do pay for some things. It's just that when we see them out at a restaurant or at some venue requiring admission fees, it seems that Nathan or Jonathan is with them. Exceptions are when it's just Jill and her delicious Hunk dining out - at places upscale from McDonald's - or Jill and David with one or two of the kids. But otherwise, big groups are shown climbing the outer walls of a national monument (a law violation, as we discussed), wandering around outside other venues, floating down muddy ditches, in parks, etc. Given the whole family was at a McDonald's in those recent photos, it's possible David picked up the tab, or maybe Jill paid for it out of her Plexus riches.

I know, and I hope he does!

I doubt that Jonathan knows much about infant and child care, or childhood development. Isn't all that stuff "women's work" in the IFB world? Do fundie men ever change diapers or give their babies a bottle or feed the older kids even when their wife is really busy or even sick? I've learned a bit about the IFB way of life (and I don't mean just the IBLP sector). Including that they're really into gender roles. It's probably considered a huge hero move for a man to "babysit" his kids for a few hours while his wife is out of the house or otherwise occupied, like maybe delivering their next blessing. Maybe when the kids are a little older (able to walk, talke, feed themselves, and use the toilet), he'll take them, or at least the boys, out fishing or to a ball game or something. But the women will organize the food and make sure the kids are up and dressed for the day 'cause men have bigger things to handle. Like talking to God and conducting those nightly family devotionals. So I see it as expected, that good old Jon is leaving all the baby care and baby carrying to the wimminfolk, and assuming that his dogly wife and her extra-dogly Mahmo are doing just what Jesus has ordained and taking fine care of his infant son. Seriously, I think he and Kaylee are both pretty clueless, and if that display of infant endangerment at the zoo is any indication, I hope they get a clue pretty fast so their child has a chance to thrive.

And that's not W2 wages - it's 1099 self-employment income. That kind of income is subject to the off-the-top 15.3% federal self-employment tax, so $22,272 self-employment income is the equivalent of less than $19,000 in wages. (I don't know if that "annual income" in those poverty level tables is supposed to be wages vs. self-employment income.) And of course income tax has to be paid as well as the self-employment tax. Although TBH I don't think JillR is making that much money off Plexus, anyway. She's probably not eking out much after all her expenses.

Agreed. Not having total control over all her kids at all times must drive her nuts, and even adult kids changing churches would really claw at her ego. Nurie's not literally and locally under her thumb, but as Mrs. Keller the preacher's wife, having married "up" in IFB circles, she's giving JillR enough bragging rights to keep Mahmo happy. (Mike Keller is or was IIRC well-connected in IBLP, and via the Kellers, Nurie is related by marriage to Wallers and Duggars, even if they aren't all buddy-buddy with them.) If Renee's courtship was ended against her wishes, or even by her after one of JillR's massive narc pushes to convince her it wasn't right, Renee may be miserable. Despite her lifetime conditioning, Renee could be showing some signs of less than instant obedience and sweet happy behavior at the mo, which would also grind JillR's gears.

I did a quick drive-by on Google about prison pen pals. It seems to be quite an active thing, but IMO subject to exploitation on both sides and just so icky-squicky that I didn't dive into it any farther. That said, I wonder if J'inmate, when he gets his privileges back, will acquire any pen pals. Here's why I think he would: from his teen years on, he's had his own secret activities, apart from his family and wife. Adult porn viewing, Ashley Madison, [adult consensual] sex outside marriage, and CSAM. And that's the stuff that's been discovered and made public. Now he's in prison with his activities limited and monitored, and his wife and maybe other relatives will visit and correspond with him. We know that Anna and JB think J'inmate is going to be saving souls for Jesus while inside those walls and he'll probably have to go along with that no matter what he really thinks about it. If he can develop pen pal relationships, that could be secret stuff that he wouldn't have to share with his family. Whatever he does while locked up, we know that in Jessa's admiring description, he's "sly." And will live as much as possible with some stuff going on that he doesn't share with his "bestie" Anna, or his dad, or any of his family.

@Scarlett45 - just want to add that I also think you're a good friend to Mary. Such a difficult situation for her. I'm glad she has you and her husband among others, for support. Last week, I think it was, a discussion of the Poldark series here in the Prayer Closet, reminded me that I enjoyed the original Upstairs Downstairs series. I'd seen a couple of episodes randomly uploaded to YouTube not long ago, and wanted to see more. I found a boxed set of the DVDs cheap on ebay and bought them. They were delivered early this week - and I've had a very pleasant time diving back into that show. I haven't watched every episode, but have worked my way at this time into the start of the last season (series 5). It's been fun because the show is still enjoyable after all these decades (!). The box set came with extras, including a few hours of key cast and production crew discussing the making of the series in some detail, season by season. It was a well-conceived and well-written series, and despite what today would be considered a laughably small production budget, there was much attention to detail as to props, clothes, etc. One tidbit that has stayed with me concerns the writers' resources for the series. Rosemary Anne Sisson wrote several of the scripts. She mentioned that a memoir by Barbara Cartland, "We Danced All Night," contained marvelous detail about Brit high society life in the 1920's, things that the writers in the 1970's probably wouldn't have even thought about. All told, I've had my money's worth from the purchase of the box set, which came to just over twenty bucks. And, I just have to say, Simon Williams, who I thought was heart-stoppingly handsome in the series back in the day? Has aged quite nicely. Still not at all hard on the eyes. Just saying.

I found Jill's FB post - it was a trip to the Akron Zoo. Not only did JillR wear the baby in the carrier all wrong - so did Kaylee. I caught some screenshots from one of JillR's videos. Kaylee was walking toward the camera in a shaded area. It's clear from the video that the baby's being carried sideways and low, and is all covered up. At least she wasn't carrying him way below her boobs like Jill did. As she walked closer, Kaylee pulled down enough of the fabric to show MAHMO the baby's face. They are all dangerous fools.

That's a good point.

If J'inmate hasn't been able to visit with Anna since March, he'll probably be glad to see her when she can visit again. That said, I don't think that he's on board with the idea that he's called to save souls for Jesus while he's a guest of the federal government - although his father and his wife, among others, may fervently believe that's the case. And no doubt he's continued to talk the party line as he has all his life (I think he's a liar, hypocrite, and manipulator, and I doubt he believes in anything beyond gratifying his own wants and needs although being in prison certainly limits the scope of possibilities in that regard). Assuming he retains his visiting privileges, I think Anna will visit him every. single. chance she can take, and constantly write to him, and I'm sure she'll spout a lot of Jesus talk at him. I wonder if he'll ever get pushed to his limits of tolerance and stop going along with all that, or just say whatever it takes to keep her sweet.

Thanks for this. I was away on vacation when this series was released, and now I may go look for it. I'm old enough to remember the young-ish US Attorney Giuliani who became famous as he headed the US Department of Justice task force in NY, that got convictions against some high-level mobsters like Gotti. It's a real mind-fork to see old footage of him in documentaries about those efforts against organized crime from the 90's, and to know what he is now. I'm not a New Yorker so I'll probably watch the first episodes as I'll probably learn enough to make it worthwhile.

I would like to think so, but I really don't have hopes in that direction. Austin - who I've always thought was likely to be a controlling arse in his home - has been known to speak up in favor of the Pearls. IIRC his parents followed the Pearls' philosophy of "training up a child" and may also know them. I assume that all the grandchildren of JB and Meech are being "trained up" using those methods (blanket training, beating even tiny children) except the Vuolos' and the Dillards' kids. Nobody else has left the IBLP fold, and those methods seem to be part and parcel of bringing up broken spirits under their umbrella of authority. I think they've all gotten more canny (or to use Jessa's admiring term, "sly") about keeping that stuff on the downlow and out of public circulation.

I should have worded my post more clearly. I know what CSAM means. I was asking what the OP was referring to, and did get an answer. (Because that post had followed mine, I wondered if there was some rumor that J'inmate's porn viewing as a teen, was other than adult porn. It turns out that reference was to another post which had used the older and now outdated term for that material, not to my post at all.)

Thanks @oliviabenson for the info on the "Gold School." So, you're eligible to go when you've newly arrived at Gold or Senior Gold status. Okay, I haven't paid close attention to JillR's Plexus shenanigans. But, didn't she hit Gold level quite awhile ago? Did she attend Gold School then? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that now she's moved up a notch to "Senior Gold" - so that's another "opportunity" to go to Gold School. I wonder how much pressure the company puts on their huns to attend those "schools." It must be expensive, especially in relation to the slim pickings that constitutes their compensation at those levels. I also wonder if David noped the Gold School idea if it was offered to Jill before now, on the grounds of (a) expense, (b) conflict with their scheduled church gigs, or (c) both.

I agree. Even if they do it online and don't charge much for it, it has to be some combination of rah-rah cheerleading encouragement and shaming them for their shortcomings. With handy ways to order more inventory on the spot to show their commitment. Imagine how awful it could be if you're targeted by JillR as a potential Plexus customer/downline. I'm sure she'd be texting you constantly, at a minimum. At least you can block numbers - and I'd bet a hot dinner that plenty of people have blocked JillR.

This is 100% spot on. I grew up with someone who had similar behavior - although not as extreme as JillRs and she wasn't hateful, just stubborn. That was bad enough. Later, in our adult lives, she described herself as just like a little bulldozer who kept on going over all obstacles until she got what she wanted; she seemed to think that was cute. And I was one of those obstacles. Sigh. You are so badass - and I love that! I wonder if Renee's Mystery Man is our first known example of a potential spouse for a Rod kid, who's stood up to JillR's antics. And may, for all we know, have gotten a good look at all the family dynamics - and skedaddled. I don't think he'll be the only one. Even the in-laws, the Kellers and Hills, don't seem to be big Rod fans. I can't believe that the Hills' thorough scrubbing of their online presence shortly after the engagement was announced, was coincidental. Ma and Pa Keller don't seem to have gone out of their way to hang out with David and Jill, and IIRC we haven't seen much if any of them on JIllR's SM for a long time. I mean, they are all part of the IFB world and aren't likely to denounce their bros and sisters in Christ, but I sense a drawing in of their skirts as the Rods pass by.

So this afternoon I pimped my ride. Sort of. If anybody remembers that phrase! I'm cracking myself up using it in connection with my - minivan. A complete grandma car. 🤣 I installed AWS Ventvisors to the front and rear doors. Those are good to have especially if you're camping in your car. You can roll the windows down an inch or two and the vents keep rain out. Well, unless it's a wind-driven deluge or something, in which case I assume you wouldn't have the windows down at all. The vents also let you have the windows open just that little bit for ventilation without it being obvious from outside the vehicle. I also put on the (removable) seat covers I ordered on the front seats. Well, I suppose they're more like slipcovers? Because they fit over the existing seats and are removable. They're a retro-looking fabric, and I like how they look. They remind me of my late dad's old Ford pickup (from the 1960's). They fit the seats and fastened down as intended but the fabric around the sides of the seats at the bottom looks a bit lumpy. Fingers crossed they'll relax and straighten out. I'd rather not go through the exercise of taking them off. Putting them on was enough of an adventure. At least it's been a mild day and I had the car parked in the shade. There's nothing wrong with the seats, but I'm not nuts about the factory/permanent seat covers, and anyway these slipover covers will protect them from wear and tear and misadventures. In other news, my boxed set of Upstairs, Downstairs DVDs was just delivered. Not a bad deal for twenty bucks. I may watch some episodes tonight!

It could be twins, so that's two more feral kids with messy hair and no education.

What was CSAM? I never heard that teenaged J'inmate's porn viewing was CSAM.

That's always been my understanding about the prevalence of the "all sins are equal" idea - it's pretty widespread. We know - although we've had to kind of piece it all together from different sources over the years - that when J'inmate was a teenager, he molested five very young girls ("Case 1") and at least a year or two later it was discovered that he also had watched (adult) porn on a computer ("Case 2"). In both cases, as I understand it, he was brought before the church elders. I think that in Case 2 he may have also been brought before the entire church, as the podcaster named Justin described witnessing as a kid in that church. For Case 1 - J'inmate was sent to work on the ATI's Little Rock building/remodeling project. And had a stern "talking-to" from a law enforcement officer - who these days is serving a long prison sentence for possessing CSAM. For Case 2 - J'inmate's head was shaved and he was sent to spend a hot Arkansas summer digging out an irrigation pond. Living out in fairly isolated conditions doing literally filthy work. (And brought back to Tontitown as required when TLC's crews were there shooting footage, of course). That ^^ is my understanding of what happened, based on information made available over the years online, and I don't offer it as absolute truth. Corrections welcomed, but I'm going with it as truthful until reliably corrected. So the message is: Molest children: go hammer some nails for awhile and chat with a friendly cop. Amy said she was told that J'inmate was just away from home helping people build houses. Look at adult porn: undergo a shaming before the church congregation with a shaved head, then spend a sweltering summer shoveling mud and sh*t out on an isolated farm, living alone in a shack with your meals brought to you. Not to drag this conversation way off topic, but I will say this. I watch a lot of true crime on TV. The deets of the cases tend to drift into and out of my mind, but offhand without any searching I can name at least three cases where religious folk murdered their spouses [themselves or had someone else do it] to be free to live happily ever after with their side piece. These were (nominal) Christians of the conservative-to-fundie flavor. Of course those perps were not good people no matter what doctrines they espoused, but the "I've already sinned by committing adultery so what's another one like murder?" idea no doubt fed into their evil acts. In fact, one of them actually used that idea, among others, in persuading his mistress to kill his wife. (Brian Hood, whose mistress Jennifer Reali shot his wife Dianne Hood to death, Colorado Springs, 1990).

I doubt the law firm would claim to achieve acquittals no matter what. That's not possible, and making that claim in an ad would violate the disciplinary rules and bring down the hammer on their law licenses. I think that they advertise their specialized experience and note their successful cases. If they do that accurately, it's not false advertising. I also believe they advised J'inmate to take a plea deal and he was too arrogant to do it. If he refuses the deal, his lawyer's obliged to go to trial and do their best, even if the case is a real dog for the defense. If in the pretrial phase there was some publicity touting how fab the defense lawyers were at defending these cases? At the end of the day, in relation to the actual court proceedings, that stuff is just extraneous noise. Under other circumstances, that kind of pro-defense publicity could shake the confidence of a prosecutor. But not in that case, not with those prosecutors. It probably served to buck up the Duggars who were backing their Crown Prince, but that was just false hope. You can brag all day - and get some press - about how you've hired this big swinging **** to win your case, but it means zilch when court convenes. As JB, Anna, J'inmate, and others found out.