CaliCheeseSucks

Ugh. An entire New Rule about how brave conservatives are for coming on Real Time - when that's not even comparable to the reason Democrats object to Fox News hosting a Presidential Debate. Did Bill even mention Jane Mayer's article?

It reminded me of the episode of the "Palestinian Chicken" episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm, with the woman who keeps saying 'LOL' instead of just laughing and her husband bribes Larry to call her out on it. "You like saying that, don't you?" "It's cute, right?" "No, not really."

I haven't been the biggest Mikey fan but the finale (and the Sliding Doors episode) certainly paid off his character. I'm gonna miss this show so much, even though it was probably better to go off now than when the well was run dry. Ellie, Tituss and Jane deserve Emmy noms but the show seemed to fall off the Emmy voters radar and sadly, that often means "out of sight, out of mind" going forward. For Tituss to have never won is a crime. He's an utter joy, even when the material was weak.

I think that's an overly generous reading of the reaction. Nevertheless, for people who don't care what Bill Maher thinks, they certainly are paying attention to what Bill Maher thinks. Perhaps ignoring him would be a better response.

When she ended her segment by saying no, she'd never run for President because women shouldn't work (or however she phrased it) - she just solidified that she is Phyllis Schafly 2.0. Making a lucrative career out of shaming women who have careers. I like Bill but as usual, found the interview lacking in teeth. Of all days to have her on - his claws should have been OUT. But nah, doesn't want to truly offend his buddy. Loved the New Rule. The more people rail at him for that opinion, the more it cements his thesis about their childish attachment. If you like what you like, what do you care if Bill Maher is mocking you for it? Especially since most people I hear complaining about his commentaries on the topic claim to loathe him. Since I was a kid, my tastes ran counter to my demo - preferring PBS costume dramas to Who's The Boss? doesn't exactly make you the most popular student in elementary school. Nevertheless, I stuck with my tastes because I don't care. The more people get riled up over Bill's remarks on the comic genre, the more I wonder if this is the first time they've heard criticism of that genre.

I like Marshawn but his comments about hitting someone with his head, "it's the first to go..." it genuinely made me concerned for him.

Until there are specific episode threads, I'll put this behind a spoiler.

I totally agree with you, Giselle. I really have so much sympathy for Terra and wish her the best. Debra though - as my mother would say, she's something else entirely.

I think that's a bit harsh. Terra was almost murdered and - like the episode title says - fought like hell to live. She didn't ask to be a part of her mother's screwy relationship with John Meehan and, at least to me, she's the biggest victim in his predatory attack on her family. I hope she's finding some peace through talking about her experience. I honestly don't judge her. Debra, on the other hand....

From having first listened to the podcast and then the Dateline interviews, *and* then watched the series and now the Oxygen special... sorry Debra, but I thought you sounded dopey and desperate all on your own and the series just nailed it.

My online guide says it will be repeated tomorrow (Tuesday, 1/15) at 11:00 p.m. [ET] and Friday (1/18) at 9:00 p.m. [ET]. (And it looks like a few more times as well, but those are the next two immediate replays.)

It was actually mentioned in E1 or 2... Terra and her boyfriend are walking (with her dog) up to the new digs Debra and John have moved into, and Terra is talking about zombie killing on the way. When they get to the door, John is pushing a mattress inside and basically tells them both to get lost. I don't think Debra sought the fame that the podcast would bring (who could have known that anyways?) but my sense - from this series, the interviews around it and now the Oxygen special - is that attention the story is getting her is akin to the attention John was giving her. She's a woman who lives for attention, regardless of how positive or negative. I think many people might agree to a podcast/newspaper story and/or movie adaptation without it becoming their new full-time occupation. I don't think Debra is that person.

Hopefully, she'll be able to return to working with animals, maybe in a way that helps match people to support animals - which might be both fulfilling and healing to her. She didn't survive that attack by chance; she is truly resilient and found inner strength to save herself when almost no one (but a brave teenager) was willing to help. I came off thinking very highly of the daughters (vocal fry be damned) and very, very little of Debra.

I thought this would be much more intense, moving climax but it just made me mad all over again at Debra. Everything she exposed her daughters to and she is there smiling awkwardly at the sister and reflecting wistfully at the end? No.

Fascinating episode. Did I suspect some of it, sure. But I don't think I really processed until this hour how little we had seen wholly of his mechanisms from his side. I still think Debra is a dummy. I'm sorry, but I cannot shake that opinion. H's threatened so many people that matter to her.

Damon Gupton was fantastic as the detective. And Alan Ruck, wow - did not realize that was him until I came here. Excellent episode overall, though I agree with those who still can't root for Debra. Nice that she's finally seeing the light but these red flags were there all along. She's endangered so many people at this point, including the poor attorney.

You can find the original podcast episodes, plus some bonus episodes, here. Since you're new to it, you might want to keep the podcast details - since it may not follow the order of the episodes - over in the podcast thread. Even for those of us who already listened, it can be a challenge to remember which podcast details the show has gotten to in what episode.

In one of the interviews, I can't remember if it was the live (bonus) LAT podcast or elsewhere, Debra says something to the effect of how she never would have gotten involved with him had she known he would threaten her children. Except he DID threaten them: He made the 'joke' about shooting Ronnie/Jacquelyn, and made that sinister comment to the nephew making light of the murder of his mother (not a threat per se but certainly a threatening use of a horrible personal detail). Now Tania says - I'm pretty sure this is in the live pod - that she understands Debra hasn't had the same time to heal from John that she (Tania) has had and while I thought that was a generous and kind thing to say... I just don't think Debra gets it, will ever get it, especially not with a history of abusive relationships. The red flags were legion with John Meehan and she repeatedly chose to ignore those flags/ally with him over her family and their well-being.

As far as still making rationalizations for what she didn't see or didn't react to, in my opinion: Yes. Poor Veronica. In the back of my mind I knew, having listened to the podcast/other media, that he had directed vile harassment towards her but that that scene still packed a wallop. Maybe because they did an almost too good of job of making Veronica seem smart (about her mother/Meehan) but shallow (in so many material ways) that to see how much she *did* value the work she was doing and how John was able to strike at the heart of it was very very effective.

Sorry, wasn't aware it wasn't kosher.

Hmmm I hadn't noticed any sync issues but I was listening more than watching, The Dateline extreme-angle cinematography filler was just too much. I believe they met in the fall (October?) 2014; the parking lot assault on Terra was August 2, 2016, and he died four days later. The podcast debuted October 2017.

That is an excellent point, @Neurochick! I'll check the 'Fact Vs. Fiction' thread and see if the Dateline hour is already linked. If not, I'll put it over there.

Kind of a boring, place-setting episode - necessary to understand context but not the most interesting hour. I was glad to see that there's a reason why they cast Jean Smart and stuck her in a Sophia Petrillo wig for the first three episodes. Arlene is beyond toxic and Debra definitely inherited that trait. Thank goodness Veronica and Terra are more world-wise/weary and capable of seeing through, and cutting through, bullshit.

Oh god, yes. He is the worst... and somehow, she is the worst because she has no normal reaction to anything he does. I feel terrible saying that I don't feel sorry for the victim of a con but they're not doing a very good job of depicting - or giving a good reason for - why Debra is such a dingbat, especially after four marriages. Someone said on an earlier thread, her spidey senses should have been tingling all of their own.

I just cannot get over how stupid Debra is, over and over. Your husband says the worst possible thing he could say to your nephew, the child of domestic violence and you still hem and haw? If none of the other red flags stuck - and jeez, they've been there from date #1 - that should have been an anvil falling on her head to stop dillydallying and get this man out of your house/life/money - NOW.