Carrie Ann

I loved Austin Butler on The Carrie Diaries. He had a real sweetness, something very genuine about him. Now, obviously he's only had about three minutes on Arrow, but yeah, those minutes were excruciating. I don't know anything about Shannara, but with more time for the writers to develop a good character and for him to understand that character, I would assume he'd have more success than on Arrow.

I only caught up on The 100 a few weeks ago, so I probably have a different view on the series than a lot of you do. That said, I did sort of hate Finn from Moment 1 of the series, so I was pleased with the ending of the episode. But really, he would have just been a minor irritation had the massacre not occurred. Even then, he could have become an interesting study of what can happen to people after they snap. But instead, the writers (and JR in particular, it seems) always took his side, and that is...unsettling. They had every character make excuses for him, compare their own sins to his, and forgive him. They had him, time and again, excuse his own actions by blaming others or offering the justification that it was for Clarke. Even last night, he said something about how everything that happened, he was OK with it, because she was all right. I mean...a) she IS all right, but Finn had absolutely nothing to do with that, and b) you probably shouldn't be "OK" with having killed 18 innocent people, regardless. So it's odd, because on the one hand, Rothenberg says that there really is no coming back from killing those people, no way to atone or become okay again. But on the other hand, he and his staff are the people writing the rest of the characters, who are going out of their way to try to absolve Finn. And they retcon the Space Walk in the same episode, in order to make him more sympathetic. That doesn't even bother me that much, though I'd love to know whether they really knew that they would do that from the beginning, or only after viewers didn't take to Finn the way they thought we would. Anyway, I have a bunch of reservations about this show, but in general, I find it an exhilarating hour of TV every week. And I truly love the characters. Now that Finn's gone, Jasper's the only character left that I don't find interesting.

Haha, thanks! All of us Bamon people need to be here to support each other. I should have elaborated a bit on my thoughts about Ian's feelings on this. At that same link (I think?) there's a JP quote to the effect that for the previous five seasons, Bonnie and Damon were supposed to dislike each other, so that kind of dovetails a bit with what Ian says. That the story called for them not to like each other, so having them on screen together when they have this great connection and chemistry wouldn't have been "right" for the story. From my perspective, that's just another example of JP's short-sightedness. Say what you will about TVD over the years (and...I've said a lot, clearly), but I've always enjoyed the cast's chemistry with each other. But in the past, the show has not done a great job with mixing up the groupings. So you see a lot of the same people interacting, and it gets old. This season, they are mixing it up more, which I appreciate. But in the meantime, there's been all this potential for deeper relationships among all of the cast, and they've just done nothing with it. And when you have real on-screen chemistry, that's the kind of thing you can't create or write into being. But if you're a good EP, you should take full advantage of it. You should let what works on screen lead the story; not just stick with your direction because you're stubborn. And I recognize that ND and IS had/have chemistry too--I'm not saying that I think they should have just abandoned Delena or anything. But there's no reason not to allow Bamon to be frenemies over the years, to develop that relationship and let them share screentime. The only reason is that their priorities were elsewhere: primarily, on Delena, and when it comes to Damon, they were on his male friendships. And they had no priorities when it came to Bonnie, because she wasn't a character to them, she was a Magic Execution Tool, and that's it. Who knows why they finally decided to take advantage of KG and her chemistry with IS this year? But if I had to guess, I would say it's because the two of them started getting loud about demanding it.

Ugh, that Rachel/Paul scene was awful and creepy and kinda rapey and I just hated it. And I miss Sarah and Paul too. I think the writers just changed their minds about what they wanted to do with Paul between S1 and S2, and so his characterization totally changed. But, as I said once in the OB threads here--there was nuzzling! I'm not getting over the nuzzling that easily. Anyway, Arrow did completely waste Dylan Bruce and his hotness, but I don't think they ever had any big plans for that character.

I know there are other interviews where Ian talks about that in greater detail, probably also from Comic Con this year, but here is one where he talks about it. I don't know why it would be spin, but it certainly could be just his take on why Bonnie and Damon didn't have much to do with each other before this season.

LOVE Nikita. I marathoned that show around this time last year, and I really adored it. I'm sure there were missteps along the way, but watching it that fast, they were harder to spot and even harder to remember now. The one thing I did find frustrating was how often Alex lost faith in Nikita--that relationship was tough to watch at times. But Michael/Nikita is a great example of how to let a main couple be together but keep them interesting. I never stopped rooting for them and I never felt like they lost their spark.

No matter the reason, the real answer is "booze."

Based on that podcast interview he did with Aisha Tyler, I really don't think Stephen's issue with unnecessary shirtless scenes is the condition of his body. He really seemed unconcerned about that side of it--including the idea that he would have to crash diet or cut out carbs completely or anything like that--probably because he has a pretty crazy workout regimen that doesn't really allow for him to, you know, go soft. I really think it's about the added time of getting the scars and tattoos put on, and that's it. Even if it's only 90 minutes, that's actual time in his life that he doesn't have to be on set. It's not like that 90 minutes is subtracted elsewhere in his work schedule. And it might be more than that, if they have to split up the scene somehow over two days, or if he's shirtless for multiple scenes in an episode. So he just asked that they limit it, and they have. I miss it, but that's what Tumblr gifsets are for.

That's what I assumed initially as well (though I do think the flashbacks have to be him for 310 and 311 because he did film for those eps, just not much), but now I'm not so sure. I won't be surprised either way if they do drop hints in 10/11 that he's alive, or not at all. And it would make some dramatic sense for our first glimpse of him to be his shocking reappearance in Starling in 312, the first sweeps episode. But then we have to go backwards, right, to find out how he survived and what happened to him? If we haven't seen where he was at all, or had any hint that he was alive? I just don't know that there's time to do that in an episode called Canaries, or in a flashback-heavy episode. So I just started wondering whether the shocking reappearance would take place wherever he's been, presumably near this mountain, in 312. Then his shocking return to Starling in 313, then WhateverTF is happening in 314. Hey, maybe it's just Oliver and Team Arrow in the Foundry and he's telling them the story of how he survived, and in the meantime, we're seeing all these Tommy/Laurel/Thea/Ollie flashbacks.

Yeah, I would think we would get at least little hints in 310 and 311, but then SA did say that there are or "may be" (can't remember whether he was actually definitive about this or not) a few episodes in which he ONLY appeared in flashbacks. Even if they did drop those tiny little flashes of Present Oliver, they could wait until 312 to actually have any action on that front. Like, that's when he wakes up wherever, or when he leaves to get back to Starling.

While I don't doubt that 314 could be a flashback-focused episode in the vein of The Odyssey and The Promise (maybe the title follows that pattern intentionally?), is it possible that they scheduled the filming of the flashback scenes together? As far as how Oliver's actual return to the present tense will go...I'm starting to wonder whether the audience will see him at the very end of 312 but no one on the show will (aside from anyone taking care of him, if applicable), and then he will appear in Starling toward the end of 313 (I know he's in the suit for that episode, but he could sort of show up in the middle of the action and shock everyone), and then 314 will cover his previous "return" to Starling, and then yeah, we get the bulk of the team fallout in 315 and beyond. Ugh, if so.

Ditto. I didn't read the episode description, so I didn't know that Rosa and Nick Cannon were going to have a thing, but as soon as she said, "Bye," my eyes widened. So Gina immediately jumping on it was the icing on the cake. Rosa and Amy are two of my favorite characters on TV right now. And this season has had some hits and misses, but they've really done a nice job playing around with character pairings, so that it stays fresh and fun to see everyone grouped together in different combinations. Like, it was nice to have Jake/Boyle again, but Terry/Amy/Gina and Holt/Rosa were a delight. Also, I would totally buy Terry's book.

Well, clearly the answer to Oliver's question is: Yes, you can be both. That's obviously where we're heading, so, yes, I don't think there's any way the season will end with Oliver hanging up the hood. But I don't think the three other heroes refers to Dig and Felicity. I think it refers to some combination of Ray, Laurel, Roy, and Thea. (My preference would be that at some point, post-finale, one or two of those characters would take their talents to some other city, but we'll see.) But having these people step up by the end of the season doesn't mean that Oliver would just hang it up and let them take over. But I think it will make him realize that he can take the night off sometimes. That he has other people to call if he's getting in over his head. And I think that little bit of flexibility will be enough to allow him the freedom to be Oliver Queen and The Arrow, and will make him realize that saving Starling is not "his" crusade. A whole bunch of people are invested in that crusade.

OK, so there's an even better option--she could be keeping a written count of the days she's been there and what day it is in the real world.

Eh, if I were stuck in some weird prison dimension, I'd probably count the days I was there. I don't understand whether the things they do "stick" though--they don't, right? Every day just starts fresh? So if she tried to write something down like that, it wouldn't work. So I think she can just track the passage of time in her head.

I think the thought of Roy taking the lead role in the field over Diggle would have bothered me prior to 301. Diggle decided he wasn't going into the field anymore; everything changed when he became a father. Whether you found that in character or out, that was the decision he made. He went back on it because he felt like Oliver needed him, and he wanted to help find Sara's killer. Frankly, I hope that he realizes now that he is needed on the team, regardless. But I don't see any reason to believe that he would want to take the lead in the field. But I can see the perspective that making Dig a father limited his possibilities in other areas, and that his role on the team has changed, and that some people aren't happy with that change. It's not my number 1 favorite thing either, but I do like the possibilities of making Dig more of a tactical leader on Team Arrow, and Roy more of the on-the-ground backup fighter.

Looks like Guggenheim is still on his Black Canary Trilogy Say Whaaaaaaaat? Tour. Glad that Roy will have something to do, I guess. But honestly the thought of CH in a scene with JB makes me kinda cringe. I do hope that maybe they'll find a good groove for CH/Roy this season.

Your first question--Stefan didn't tell Damon because when he volunteered to tell Caroline, Elena said she would tell Damon. I think part of bringing the car over at that moment was to soften the blow that he knew was coming. He sort of made himself scarce right after. Your second question--I fully agree. I understand that the writers will never acknowledge that Damon raped Caroline, but they certainly don't need to make her his apologist. If they want her to stop fighting Elena about Damon, they can just leave it at that. I was glad Stefan stepped up as Caroline's best friend--which is what he was according to Caroline, prior to turning into a major dick for a few months--because Elena has never filled that position properly. She was dreading having to tell her, so Stefan volunteered because he realized that if he really wants to be Caroline's best friend again, then he's the one who needs to do the hard stuff. How long they've each known Caroline means nothing to me, because I don't think E/C were ever as close as S/C, even disregarding Caroline's romantic feelings. Even back in the days I liked Elena, their friendship was always a little...weird. That's a big issue for another thread though.

I think the point of Bonnie's thing was to show her sad and missing her friends, and then maybe some of that sadness starting to turn into anger, nihilism, etc. Bout damn time, frankly. Kill 'em all, Bonbon.

Yeah, before this season, I would have balked at the idea that they would believe Oliver was dead without a body, but not anymore. Oliver ruled out the LoA in Sara's murder, then took Malcolm at his word that he didn't kill her, then put Malcolm under his protection against the LoA Oliver reversed his decision to date Felicity after one li'l baby bomb Felicity and Diggle jumped at the smallest indication that Roy may have killed Sara Laurel can't tell Quentin about Sara because of his ~heart condition~ or whatever All because: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ It's not that I believe they would really just take someone they see as an enemy at his/her word, but I think there are certain people they would believe. I think Nyssa is one of them, and maybe even Malcolm if he can convince them that Oliver's death runs contrary to his interests.

The Buffy/Angel example is one I think of often. I know there are people out there who watched those shows while hating the main character, and probably there were some people who said, "Just make the show about Willow!" or whatever, but I don't think it was a majority. I never really felt like the core supporting characters on those shows got the shaft. I felt like enough time was spent on them generally, and I understood that their primary function was to support the journey of the central character. That's how I feel about Arrow. I'm here for Oliver's journey, and if these writers don't know how to properly develop and integrate other characters' journeys alongside or in support of Oliver's, that's on them. Viewers shouldn't be asked to be patient and sit through something we didn't sign up for, and honestly, a lot of casual viewers probably won't. And I feel kind of bad for Stephen, as usual, because I'm guessing he was either asked to take that post down because of the new party line that it's not a BC arc, or he took it down because he was getting some nasty feedback on it. I continue to appreciate the way he tirelessly promotes the show. But at the same time, you know, they're wrong to try to turn this into a true ensemble show or a two-lead show or whatever it is they're trying to do. It's a bad move, and I hope they receive that message.

Okay, totally got you there. I was thinking about a sudden personality modification situation, and those drive me crazy. Because it feels like the character I love died, and I never fully feel like I understand the "new" character, ever again. And it just feels cheap. Like the writers couldn't figure out a way to get him over that hump naturally, so they just drop him in the magic pit. What you're looking for out of this scenario is the same thing I'm looking for. I want him to come out of this struggle to survive with a powerful motivation to heal himself and to go back and fight for a full, real life. I would prefer it happen organically, as you describe in your last line, but if the Lazarus Pits have to play a role, then that's as far as I want it to go.

It's really baffling to me that the writers would think viewers would take Laurel's side on this. Why would anyone sympathize with her decision not to tell Quentin? His health is the flimsiest of excuses; the odds of him actually just like keeling over in front of her are preeeetttty slim, and even if he were to fall off the wagon or lose it for awhile or whatever, that's not on her to control. And that's the real reason. She can't stand not being in control of everything at all times. So she's controlling who knows about Sara and how they react to it. She can't lose anyone else, and that trumps Quentin's right to know about his younger, far superior daughter's death. That Dinah cosigned her on that is despicable. So yeah, now I hate every iteration of Dinah Lance on this show.

My preference would be Oliver survived the wounds and the fall, barely, and is nursed back to health using various methods, but not primarily healed via Lazarus Pit. I don't want him magically, even symbolically, healed of his scars because they're a part of him. Clearing him of his scars and tattoos (?) would make shirtless scenes easier for SA and the show, I know, but I'm willing to sacrifice that. I don't want Oliver to come back "wrong" a la Angel or Buffy on BtVS, and I don't want a new, clean version of Oliver either. I want the same Oliver, because that's the journey I've been invested in from S1, and I don't want a shortcut through it, and I'd prefer not to have a huge regression either. As for the idea of a tracker, I just don't think the writers would pass on the chance to have Team Arrow believe Oliver is dead. Felicity in particular. So I don't think she put a tracker on him, because if she did and they were led to believe that he died, she wouldn't stop until they buried that body.The other option is that they know he's alive, and surviving somehow, and are content to leave him there to get better on his own, and I just don't think that makes sense for what the show is trying to do with everyone. No, what I think is going to happen is that they think he's dead. Nyssa communicates that to them and they believe her. We don't even get to see their acute grief stage because this show loves to skip over those kinds of things, and by the time we join them, they are trying to live without Oliver. So question one: are they going to tell Thea? If so, what are they going to tell her exactly? Will they tell her that Oliver dead? That he was the Arrow and that he died to protect her? Will they tell her about Malcolm and that she killed Sara? Seems doubtful on all counts. Two: how much time will pass between now and when Oliver returns to Starling, whatever episode that is? Is it two months, like it should be if we're following real time? Or are they going to take a bigger jump? Because the EPs said that there are no crossovers in the works for this season. Three: how do Oliver and Felicity proceed when he returns? In one way, a lot depends on Question 2, but in another way it doesn't. Because I would not believe that she would date Ray while grieving Oliver and I don't believe that two months would be long enough. But the writers probably do, and that's the problem. Regardless, it's my belief that something romantic will be going on with Ray by the time Oliver gets back. And again, I will not find it believable that Felicity would not just drop Ray on his ass the minute the love of her life returns from the dead, but you know, the writers...I doubt they agree with me there.

I don't know about the rest of it, but I do know that the only thing I saw Oliver putting in his bag was his tiny satchel of Magic Island Herbs. So, you know, there's that.