Carrie Ann

My impression of that moment was that Sin was confused, but that she thought "Sara" might not have heard her. Then when she saw her again in the fight, not fighting, but tending to someone Sin didn't recognize (in addition to maybe having another moment to look at her and see physical differences), she became sure that it wasn't Sara.

I like this line of thinking, because I've been sort of wondering about the scope of things here. The LoA is such a huge force--like ARGUS, in a way--that Oliver making it HIS personal mission to take Ra's and by extension the LoA down seems a little bigger than necessary. Malcolm seems like about the right size for him/the team this season. Also, defeating Malcolm matters personally to more castmembers than defeating Ra's does. Thea deserves to battle him, even dumb ol' Laurel deserves to get a few punches in. Plus, you know, Zombie Tommy. Even if we're doing this whole "it's our mission too!" thing, these are all still baby vigilantes. They should not be able to take on the League of Assassins. Anyway, so to me it seems too early to really defeat Ra's this season. Once the show is renamed to accommodate all the superheroes, and they're all experienced and capable, then take on Ra's. But the show doesn't like to hold back on story, so it's probably more straightforward than I'd like to believe--with Ra's as the Big Bad, and Malcolm as the Lesser Bad in the vein of Sebastian Blood/Isabel Rochev.

They did mention last week that if the leader of the coven dies, they all die. Liv and Luke's dad said it in his fight with Tyler and Liv. So they established that then, at least, if not earlier in the season. I honestly couldn't care less if that whole coven died because they seem horrible, so I don't pay close attention to their scenes.

It's always May 10, 1994 in Bonnie's world. She's keeping track of time in the real world by marking days off on a calendar (just like we were speculating when she knew it was Christmas), but the actual day never changes. This episode was sort of high-highs and low-lows, for me. The lowest: Enzo. Fuck off, Enzo. Second-lowest: Delena. You know, "hanging a lampshade" on the fact that Vampire Elena is the worst doesn't actually make up for making her that way, writers. I wish I believed this was foreshadowing for developing her in some way, but I don't believe that at all. I think they got Damon and Elena back together and that's all they care about. On to the high-highs. The highest: Kat Graham killing every one of her scenes. I cried every time she did, and hated all of her "friends" just a little bit more. Also, Steven McQueen did a really nice job in that scene next to the car. He had real emotion on his face and even managed to squeeze out a tear. Good for him. Second-highest: the Steroline chemistry in that near-kiss scene. Like @ElectricBoogaloo, I did not want them to kiss in that moment, but the fact that it seemed so close, on both sides, was enough for me. More showing, less talking about their feelings for each other.

Didn't they move into the apartment we saw them in when they were in bed together? I can't remember which episode that was...

If Laurel had learned immediately after the murder, then maybe she would have tried to do something stupid to Thea. But now she's pretty much dropped that whole avenging Sara thing in favor of imitating her instead. She's not Ra's. There's no reason to believe she wouldn't see that Thea is a victim here too (granted, a victim of her own making, given that she left town to be trained by a mass murderer, but you know). It's just that no one on this show wants to deal with others' pain, and it's making ALL of them look like assholes. But particularly the ones closest to those in the dark. (Oliver and Laurel, in this case.)

Yeah, I really don't see the point of revealing that Oliver is the Arrow, if it's not so that they can tell her everything else. But now that Oliver's on Team Merlyn, I guess he's not in any real hurry to do that. Man, I just don't understand anything right now.

I'm hoping for this, but then I don't see the point of Jackson or the marriage at all, and then that removes the barrier between Hayley and Elijah. How ever will they stall it, without an artificial barrier??? But assuming it does work as anticipated--and I don't really expect the show to explore something like this--I kind of wonder what removing the moon curse would do to alter the pack dynamic. Because, aside from the whole "wolf" thing, I could imagine that werewolves naturally organize in "packs" in order to protect and help each other during full moons, and to keep from just annihilating themselves. But if they can control the change, and only do so when they want to, some of the pack structure might start to break down. Just a thought. I can barely bring myself to care about the wolves, but this is sort of interesting to me.

Ratings on an episode-by-episode basis aren't as important or meaningful as trends, and I think large-scale desertion of a show tends to happen after several episodes in a row that go in a direction not of interest to a large percentage of viewers (aside from external factors, like a change in timeslot). So far this season, I don't think Arrow's ratings have shown that kind of trend, and I doubt the EPs or network have any concerns yet.

Well, they're talking here about her actual hair, and she'd have to keep that style (cut and color at least) for 10 out of 12 months of the year. I actually think it's fine in this case to let her decide whether she'd want to do that or just keep wearing the wig.

If there's a twist that Oliver and/or the team have been secretly working with Ra's or against Malcolm--and if that ruse stretches over multiple episodes or even most of the season--they need to be really, really careful with how that comes off, because it's a super cheap trick to pull a Mansion-style ruse on the audience. It often just feels like weak storytelling, that you had to tell a fake story to your audience to hide the real kicker, because otherwise you'd have no tension. And you burn trust that we can believe what we're seeing. But you know, they do love jump-the-shark moments apparently, so.

This is driving me nuts. Last night just threw it into relief for me, again, that of the people closest to Sara, only one of them knows the whole truth of what happened to her--Oliver. Only two were allowed to know she died (not counting the rest of TA because their relationships with Sara were a question mark for the audience), and then everyone else who found out has done so at Laurel's discretion. No one bothered to tell Sin or Dinah, no one has the balls to tell Quentin, no one tried to contact Nyssa. And it's that last one that's really killing me. The show has no respect for that relationship at all. And I know Nyssa is a bit of a moral absolutist, but I strongly believe she shares Sara's ethos that no woman should suffer at the hands of men. I think she would not see Thea at fault in killing Sara, and would even want to protect her from Malcolm and Ra's if she could. But that would require people to allow others to absorb information and make decisions for themselves, and we must protect the womenfolk and the infirm from dangerous information.

I came to the same conclusion, and just posted a similar train of thought in the episode thread before I read this. But yeah, basically, I think this is the crux of the problem, along with the fact that Felicity cried in 8 or 9 out of 12 episodes. It's...ridiculous. And it's making some viewers with sexist attitudes write her off as whiny and emotional and irrational. On the other hand, like @apinknightmare, I too wish they would ease up on the angst with her. Prior to this season, how many times did we see Felicity with tears in her eyes? A half dozen maybe? It's a problem with the whole season--it's too grim and melodramatic--and Felicity is just a reflection of that. But considering she was the one light element of a dark show in the past, I can understand to an extent the eye-rolling at the constant angst. And it's frustrating that the opposition with Oliver is often unresolved simply because they won't talk openly with each other. That's frustrating because that's not the dynamic we came to expect from them, and I understand their motivations for not being open (particularly on Felicity's side), but that doesn't make it better in terms of my engagement with their relationship. I will also say, as someone who hasn't been thrilled with the writing for Felicity this season, that the only silver lining to her getting hate on the internet is that maybe it will make MG realize that he is dead wrong that Felicity is bulletproof. They need to take more care with how they write her and Diggle, and not just rest on their laurels as they have this season.

I think--and this is stretching believability but here it is--Oliver made it back to the foundry before everyone else did, since they had to regroup and get in the van and maybe drive through crowded streets to get back. So he changed there and then left to go to Thea's and then came back. I can sort of buy it. But, uh, yeah, all those scenes happened in the wrong order, because: YES to this. You know, I was reading the comments (I know, I know) on another site, and wow, yeah, there is a lot of Felicity hate going on out there. But as I was reading some of the complaints, I could understand where it's coming from. Not that I think they're right, but that I can see the root of why Felicity would be annoying some people right now. And it's because in S1 and S2, she was often shown to oppose Oliver and they had it out over things several times. This has always been her character. The difference is that in past seasons, it was a discussion. And that discussion wasn't always resolved in one scene, but it was resolved by the end of the episode. In fact, that's a huge element of their relationship in Season 2. Oliver makes Felicity his EA, she gets righteously angry, by the end of the episode he's emotionally defeated and she gives him the one cup of coffee. There are loads of examples of this. But this season, Felicity has to be out of sync with or opposed to Oliver (and others, like Ray and Roy come to mind) in almost every episode, and it's often not resolved. The fight in 302 is never resolved (bc it's the conflict of the season, I get it), their coldness in 303 never thaws, they're basically battling each other for all of 307 without ever actually talking, 305 and 308 are the only exceptions, really. So that, in addition to the fact that it's apparently a mandate that Felicity cries in every episode, is making her come across to some viewers*, who want her to be happy and funny and fiesty, as a self-righteous wet blanket. I just think we've sort of hit a tipping point for those viewers' tolerance for hitting those same notes over and over. (*But it's also worth noting that at least in the case of this one site, many of the most vocal critics were dudes, and some of the bristling was about how Felicity is supposed to be superhero support and she's not staying in her lane and going along with what the big men want to do. Sexism is alive and well.)

Also, he apparently keeps a hand on her shoulder until he walks over to the sword, because if you watch it *cough* in slo-mo *cough* you can see his hand slip off as he walks away. Or he just grasps it as he apologizes for not getting in touch earlier. Good with me either way.

Yeah, I have been pretty vocal in my unhappiness with a lot of the writers' choices w/r/t Felicity/Olicity this season, but I really had no problem with that conversation. Other than the fact that I wish there had been two scenes: one nice, emotional reunion, and then the twist of the knife. But they stayed consistent and blew right past any emotional, character-based moments, just so their costumes could pose and speechify. I'm also sort of bitter that we didn't get more from Felicity before it went to shit again, because I think this was basically it until the finale or whenever they're allowed to get together. And I just wanted some verbalization from her--more than that "fantasized" thing, because that's still vague about how she feels or what she wants. (Not blaming her as a character--blaming the writers for not making it a priority to let her speak on this subject, at any point.) Anyway, I'd be disappointed as hell if I were Felicity, and I don't blame her a bit for letting him have it there. He deserved it. I just wish they weren't making Oliver act so illogically. I really just don't buy this from him at this point. I wish I believed he was trying to con Merlyn, but I don't. And if he were, I think he'd let Felicity in on that plan. And finally, "killing" Oliver was absolutely pointless for him as a character, and this episode proved that to me. They could have accomplished the same thing--making him so desperate that he would train with Merlyn--simply by writing a few lines to indicate that he knew he would lose in a duel against Ra's al Ghul. Otherwise, nothing else has changed for him since 309, it seems. So it's confirmed, for me: this was necessary only to develop other characters. I didn't notice any falling down or missed punches this episode, but Laurel sure paid her dues that one time, right? What a great character. What a great journey we're on.

Ugh, that first point, YES. That alone put me on Felicity's side in that argument. Guess what--she can be upset about multiple things at once! Women can hold multiple thoughts in their heads at the same time, and feel multiple things. Almost like we're people and CONTAIN MULTITUDES. Also, yep, they underplayed that Laurel line, but the snideness was still there. Can't hide it forever I guess. This is the most ridiculous piece of this Malcolm Merlyn redemption tour. If you (Roy, Thea, Oliver, whoever else buys this shit) are willing to believe that he's just really messed up, but that he does things for REASONS and that he really loves certain people and wants to help, then the logical next step is to ask him to prove it. By fighting Ra's himself. And they're just taking Malcolm at his word that the LoA would certainly come after Thea for Sara's death too. We don't know that. Malcolm believes he's a stronger fighter than Oliver. No reason he shouldn't be the one to fight, in that case. There's no way the show is on Malcolm/Oliver's side here--Diggle and Felicity are established as the moral center of the show, so what they say goes, in that department--but that doesn't mean that the writers don't find MM super fascinating and awesome, and aren't trying to put that whole "gotta see both sides" thing across about Oliver training with him. Nope. I don't. I don't blame Oliver for making a fast, stupid decision. But I'm annoyed that we're wasting time on what is obviously a dead-end plot. We know this doesn't end well for Oliver. And I'm already irritated at the 15 minutes we wasted on a supervillain's manpain backstory. I DGAF about Malcolm Merlyn. I care about Oliver.

Ah, guys, I just found that interview again, dated December 10. They filmed 313 from Nov. 26 - Dec 9.... So....

It didn't look that different from his office to me either, but I thought that could just be because they use the same sets for different locations sometimes. Wasn't sure about that one shot of Felicity at the door? That didn't look particularly familiar to me, and is a different outfit than the other shots of her.

I don't think that was ever confirmed besides EBR making a comment to that effect, but yeah, I think that's happening.

OK, so it's probably not Thea in that photo with BC, but the fact remains that Thea is: a) wearing a shirt that covers her whole torso, and b) looking pretty mopey in her Flannel of Sadness, not to mention the blanket in those shots with Roy and Oliver. As we all know, on this show, if you have a blanket around your shoulders, you've just gone through some shit. So...something goes down. She either finds out about Oliver, or Malcolm, or best/worst of all, her own involvement in Sara's death. Right??? (Also, Oliver's hand is on her arm and she's holding it, in one of the shots, so I think whatever is going on, she's not upset with him.)

Sorry, I changed the link so it should work now. And I don't think Thea would intentionally fight Laurel, but in costume, Thea wouldn't know who she was fighting. But I edited my original post anyway--I don't think it's her anymore.

So in this photo, you can see a flannel-clad arm that matches the flannel Thea is wearing in another photo. So does Laurel actually fight with Thea, thinking she's Sara? ETA: It looks like Oliver and Roy are chasing a dude wearing another dark colored flannel, so it's probably his, not Thea's. Ray is also wearing a flannel this ep. Must have been a Buy Two Get One free day for the Wardrobe department.

Thank you so much!

Kind of a random question, but: is there an alternative site to SpoilerTV for promo photos/videos, etc.? I can never get that site to load properly, and I hate the navigation of it. But I don't know if any other sites post all the photos the way that one does.