Seawolff

Shall we have a place to snark on and consider the names of people, places and things in the Walking Dead world? They all got their names for a reason......what was it? Exhibit .....B. Bob was obviously named for the fate he would have. Bob-B-Q, Ka-Bob, he even bobbed a bit in the water. Also Bob. Your everyday guy. etc.... Woodbury. Buried wood is just compost. And now, so is Woodbury as both a place and a population. Gareth Gareth is how you say Garish if you are Igor. I won't take them all. Feel free to state your case with poetic justice. Dammit I always have to edit!

I dunno....what's the count? The originals left from CDB are Carl, Carol, Glenn and Daryl. And Rick, who wasn't there from the start, but who quickly became what kept the group together. That's 5 left of 14 if we're not counting the family who struck out on their own. If Carol dies then no female originating at CDB survives. Boo? 1 woman left out of the 6 females from CDB. Terrible survival rate. All from stupidity too. 4 men left of the 9 men from CDB. (Carl being the only one so far to survive childhood during the apocalypse) Maggie and Beth are the only ones left of those we met on the farm. (I know, Beth is a question!?) Both are women! If THEY both die then this really is a sausage fest. (while Andrea and Lori did survive the first camp and the farm, I'm just listing those currently alive.) 2 women left of the 3.....I'm not counting those who were in the barn. 0 men left of those 3 we met on the farm and included in the group.(looking at you, Randal, and giving you a pass) Totals: 3 women left of 9 4 men left of 12 Was there ever a count at the prison after the woodburians settled there? There's no "out of" for this place. I'll just go with surviving characters not from Woodbury.(Sorry Lizzie and Mika)(oh yeah, and governor? You were just that irrelevant)(shit stirrer!) Crap. NO ONE. FROM WOODBURY. MAKES IT. Judith, Michonne, Tyrese, Sasha, and later Bob all survive from the prison. I'll add Tara because she's with them and is probably the only one from her group who survives ....Yeah, I know, poor Bob. But he's still.....there? 4 females 2 males Totals: 7 women left of 13 6 men left of 14, Aand we must now add Abraham, Rosita, and Eugene. Not adding any terminites just yet. Which gives us 8 of 14 women we've gotten to know, and 8 of 14 men we've gotten to know,(outside of former woodburians, terminites and creepy loner priests)who are still with us. Interesting balance. I just don't KNOW! I really can't take Carol not making it, being the only woman left from CDB. And SOMEONE has to survive from the Farm. Remember those lazy days? And what about Tara? Totally a third wheel if she doesn't attach herself to someone other than Glenn. Sorry, Bob's taken. Whoops. Hmmm. Who will die? I may lose sleep.

Yeah, the clothes. Surprised they didn't spare 4 second of someone in the background sweeping a rack of clothes into the trolley. Maybe they planned to go back. I'm not in an apocalypse, just had three days of hurricane weather and now the sheets in the laundry basket have mold on them. These people's clothes should be moldy, and shredded.

You are correct and my paraphrase did add all kinds of extra incentive. The point remains that she did say something about the plight of Karen and David to Rick in relation to what she thought (at the time)would happen to them.

[Chimes in] Carol did say to Rick that they were choking on their own blood when they first spoke about Karvid. Carol did it. She wasn't covering for Lizzie. She was not yet close to her. We saw Carol's reaction when she first started realizing something was wrong with Lizzie, and it was after Karvid. Not much of a stretch to think she'd go to visit them, realize that the hard thing needed to be done, and done now. Why waste time, the time in which these people are choking, going to gather everyone for a heartbreaking debate. I think she was not planning to keep it secret, either. I think she was probably on the way to get clean up supplies, water, (which, remember the pump got clogged at that point)when Tyrese made his discovery. Yes, both Carol and Daryl stood by for a moment watching other people beat on each other. I bet they've both had plenty experience with the pros and cons of staying out of the fights of bigger people. They also know that timing is everything when telling people prone to physical violence that you've done something that they'll be pissed about. Carol intervenes first. Verbally. Carol has experience with standing up to her husband for her daughter's sake. Once she speaks, Daryl moves too. I didn't want to believe it was Carol, but I can believe it. Again, I can't see a reason for Lizzie killing them. If she did, she wouldn't have also done the other things. She WANTS people to come back. Carol reminded Tyrese of this in the Grove. Say Lizzie did it. Carol found out, finished the job and hadn't cleaned up yet. That is my only possibility in the "Lizzie did it" universe. And I just think it's too far fetched. I don't think she went there until on the road with her sister. Remember, this was before more people got sick. This was before Lizzie "got sick" too and went into quarantine with the other sick people. On his deathbed the girls' father was clearly speaking to Mika when he asked her to "watch after her sister." It's viewer disorientation that made us perceive that he was speaking to the older child. As soon as the words are out of his mouth Mika leaves his side and goes over to Lizzie to comfort her! So Mika totally knows he's talking to HER, but It's obvious at the time that Carol, like us, assumes he's speaking to Lizzie. Watch it again.

Anyone else notice that Gareth is Garish with a lisp?

Here is a speculation: Daryl and Carol chase after Beth. They find her but it's either too late or she comes to some other awful, but known fate a few episodes later. This gives Daryl the time (by his existence, his agonized guilt over losing Beth and story of the claimers and Rick's doings) to let Carol know that everyone has done stuff. And thangs. And everyone knows. Or Beth lives on to be a hero and Maggie dies, giving Glenn back to the lonely life. Daryl and Carol still have that time to talk.

Talk about locusts! And just like locusts, the walkers (live and dead) are exhausting a food supply, running out their lifespan (by being either obnoxious dangerous or weak) after which a moderate population and food growth will once again ensue. Said population will then either overcome the flaw with adaptation or mutation, or become extinct.Of course cannibalism is not required to survive unless you are trapped in a place where there is NO source of food or escape. Examples such as environments of snow on an isolated mountain, or being in a lifeboat come to mind. Even then, it's really your own bad luck if you outlast your fellow trapped persons and are strong enough to have an ability to eat them. From what has been shared throughout modern experience, most people who have been in that position feel pretty bad about it and wouldn't do it again. Then again, it may be that those who liked it just aren't sharing. Terminus had plenty of food growing. Those guys are just sick, and lazy.

The illness at the prison which led to Lizzie's dad being bitten has occurred within the last two weeks of the timeline as far as I can tell. Adds a little perspective on Lizzie's turmoil, and on Carol's. It's all so this week. Lizzie's dad was dead just over a few weeks before his daughters joined him. All the Carol decision making controversy is very fresh. I really loved the water jug incident. If it was a blooper, I can see why they kept the take. It was so real. Also real was her tone of voice when she said "I don't know" in answer to Daryl's question. She really was admitting that she didn't know if she was making the right choice and was open to being given some direction from Daryl. Haha, then he bashes out the tail lights and yells "get in the car!"

I meant once you do go to bed, shut off the tablet and close your eyes.

You know you're obsessed when Sunday night is the only night of the week that you get a good nights sleep.

Oh yeah, Rick, and leadership. I'll go with those who have mentioned he's had a couple of days on the road and at least one in the prison to digest Abraham's mission and assess how his group, and his son feel about it. I'll add that going on the mission isn't so far fetched. Let's face it, they are on a mission to find a place to live already and any place is as good as any other. That they might get in fueled vehicles and drive a ways together isn't such a bad prospect either. Add in the possibility they could do some good, have a reason for having done what they needed to do to still exist, and the mission is looking like a vacation from guilt ridden survival.

Living in Hawaii has it's perks, lava to lure walkers to and all, but I'm always late to post. Re: Bob. When they were walking and kissing all I could think was " this guy is literally WEARING a faded RED shirt!" I could believe he was either bit or not. I could believe any number of reasons for being outside including either or both being on watch and needing down time to have a cry over past or future possibilities even in the midst of a pleasant dinner. I don't think Bob would have knowingly led his new group to terminus. But maybe he would have...... Maybe he escaped and went along with returning, expecting to be welcomed as some coming to terminus are.....as citizens. How Gareth could be familiar with him? He may have been part of a group Gareth was with pre terminus, pre bad stuff and part of the in crowd at terminus, or Gareth may simply be speaking to the irony that Bob was one of the imminent victims at the slaughterhouse, escaped, and is now back in the frying pan. I believe that Gareth and co got the taste for human flesh by being forced to eat their own as a part of their own torture when captive. I think that is the scenario where they learned the techniques for preserving the life of people they eat, whether for entertainment or to have fresh meat. I'm interested in why they took Bob's leg first. Seriously. If they are on the go wouldn't they eat a couple of arms and leave the legs so the meat could follow them? Do they have experience with reluctant victims and did they use the leg first since it's heavier to carry? Are they just torturing Bob and planning to leave him and just hunt another? Re: Maggie not mentioning Beth. I choose to believe that they just couldn't air every conversation and chose to spare us that debate. I wouldn't be surprised if the church was an outpost of terminus or that the priest was someone faking it to lure people in. I do not understand the marks on the trees. Do people randomly stand by the marked tree? Does the priest tell people that's the place to keep watch? Do the "hunters" mark the trees as successful places where prey tend to pause and reflect? Re: Carol: She told Tyrese she wasn't going to stay at Terminus. She told Mary that "I'm not here either." I think she's tying up loose ends now that the community of the prison failed, the girls are gone and her obligations are over. She was leaving and got caught. Maybe she hopes to fast track forgetting her past by finding a new start with people who didn't know Ed, Sophia, Karvid, or Mizzie. Her story could either have her move on, dead or alive, or have her make her peace with living with people who know where she came from. Daryl's mission is to help her make her peace with her past and understand that being with people who know your past and accept it offers more stability than hiding yourself from new groups. I think it's realistic that Abraham, Rosita and Eugene (AbRosGen or RosGenAbe?)seem like they've been plopped into the story. They actually have been! They are a small group on a mission that met up with an individual who was searching for his wife. The strength of Glenn's determination was greater than Rosgenabes. That strength caused Rosgenabe to pause in their mission, then the circumstances led them to follow the strong individual who found most of his large, even stronger group. Funny that. When they picked Glenn and Tara up they never could have imagined the outcome.

Daryl seems to be so evolutionary right now! So many people have left him or been lost to him in his life: mom, dad, Merle....Sophia, Carol, Beth. It seems as though the men have left him purposefully, and the women have been lost, leaving him feeling responsible. Once his brother was gone he turned to Rick as a father/brother figure. Daryl looks to Rick's judgement calls and how Rick parents Carl....and is very attached to Judith (interesting how he had little attachment to Lori who was always asking others to mind her son, or for Andrea who nurtured no one ) He was hurt more than anyone that Sophia did not return. Searching for a lost innocent girl in the woods may have seemed like just another thing to do for a tracker, but he was clearly invested in rescuing her. The parallels between Sophia and his own being lost in the woods were fueling his hope. When Daryl found Merle and left with him Rick asked him to consider Carol's feelings, but he knew Carol would understand his choice. He expected Rick to understand and he expected it to all work out when he chose to bring Merle back to the prison. (He really did have to choose his brother, 1. Merle had been left, and lost, and Daryl is loyal to a fault. 2. Daryl had to give it a shot. It took one day to confirm that he'd really prefer to support Rick than babysit Merle.) It's interesting to consider that the choices he made in that whole incident may have been the first time he was the one calling the shots with the brother who dominated him and the partner who relies on him. Tangent: both Rick and Daryl exchanged long term childhood partnerships for each other. Back to rant: when Carol was taken, he had only a moment he had only moments to react before he was compelled to focus entirely on the confrontation with the governor and then survival. He didn't just run into the woods. He called to Beth and told her she needed to go with him. They ran, but once they cleared imminent danger it was Beth who was telling Daryl he needed to go with her. So now Daryl is getting more opportunities to understand that while you need physical survival, that survival isn't much without emotional survival. So he lost Carol, He lost Rick! And everyone else including Beth, just as he was finding the friendship compelling. At the same time we are getting flashbacks to when he found Bob. Daryl had the three questions for Bob. Bob had no questions and didn't care what kind of people Daryl and Glenn were because any people was better than being alone. The next people he sees actually compel him to be with them. The claimers claimed him for either his use or his gears use once they tired of him. Daryl resigns himself to this for a few days, all along knowing his distaste for them as well speaking up for his own personality within the parameters of not getting dead. He almost left before finding Rick, and that was a lesson in itself. Seeing the claimers quest to the end (from a distance) enabled him to offer his life as a sacrifice for the people he'd rather not live without. The journey of Terminus could have been the big story of the series. Certainly For the Terminus people, their world was every bit as much of a journey as that of our heroes. For camp dinner bell and friends it served to funnel them to one place, stop those who were ahead so those behind could catch up, solidify them as a bad ass team that does it's very best not to leave anyone behind and give them the reward of reunion and hope. Daryl's reunion with Carol was the greatest demonstration of how valuable the reward was for everyone. They aren't a couple, they aren't related, they aren't even old friends. They represent the new society of people who as unlikely of cohorts as they seemed in the beginning have become strong friends.

Awesome post, Emily Thrace. There is a compelling reason for Beth to interact with Daryl. Carol and Daryl have acknowledged a few things about themselves with each other. They are similar people and have made abstract acknowledgements about their lives in the company of abusers. They have bonded over how they have both risen above that and become forces to recon with. They have each other's backs. What Beth and Daryl had to hash out was basically, who the hell are you? You COULD be the stereotypical opposite of me, but since stereotypes are not actually real, there must be a unique human under there. If Beth is everything Daryl thinks he never had and Daryl is everything Beth thinks she'll never get to do, then they have a lot to talk about because it's not true. What they have in common: both love and care for others very much but hide their feelings. Neither has found a serious partner....and neither has lost one. They've both lost their parents. Both of them are not happy just surviving, they must have a reason to survive. I feel the relationship is equal, too, Daryl can see himself enjoying the company of a joyful young girl just as much as Beth appreciates Daryl's wry attitude and practical ability to survive. I don't see them as romantically interested, but they have an intriguing attraction to each other based on how opposite they both are. If they rarely had cause to interact at the prison, it's understandable that now that they ended up together their relationship would have to progress. She was lost on Daryl's watch. He won't feel whole till he makes that right. He didn't like his brother leaving, or Carol being banished. He is ripe to take a little control of something and I think it's to rally the group to detect what happened to Beth.

I have noticed the watch Thang. A pocket watch was featured in the opening credits for a season or two. I have read that time is a thing of this world, but that the next world, though all around us, is free of it..... Time is something people have measured for centuries. Time is something that gives measure to timeless days. Watches are traditionally the only jewelry that men wear, the only personal item that can actually stand the test of time!(not the socks!) they are prized, passed on through generations. They have been popular longer than wedding rings. Here are my additions to the list: There was a clock in Rick's hospital room that had stopped. Rick noticed it. That is the first time piece I remember having attention given to it in the series. The first watch discussion round the campfire was not about Herschel's watch. It followed many shots of Dale fussing with his watch. It was actually Andrea asking Dale why he always was handling it and noting how meticulously he wound it every day, how silly it seemed in their days without time. Dale went into a long philosophical answer to the effect of "it signifies all that once was, now that we're in the walker world" Herschel'swatch came from the old country and had once belonged to his father too. When he gave it to Glen he told the story because handing watches down from father to son is a tradition, a "thang" signifying the reaching of adulthood, or in Glen's case, being accepted by Herschel as a son, as someone who connected him to his daughter. An intended one. Herschel included in the story that he had pawned it to pay for a night of drinking that he no longer remembered. His wife had bought it back. Those were the days! Later when at the prison Glen brought it out when asking Herschel for his blessing to marry Maggie. Rick was using the chain to saw a dagger of wood away from the structure of the boxcar. He used the dagger to free himself in the slaughter room and stab one of the butchers. Just in the nick of time, I might add. Rick's watch was not gifted so much as loaned to Sam so that he would know when two hours had passed and would meet back with Rick. Of course, they did meet again AND Rick's watch was then retrieved! Rick has not given his watch to Carl yet...... Throughout the series Herschel repeatedly stated that they were alternately running out of time, that this is the time, or that the test of time would prove. The governor set a meeting time of noon for Rick to turn over Michonne. At the time I thought it was the first time anyone had actually set a time for anything.

I eventually want to read the novels and don't want to be spoiled about them while I am here discussing the show. Also, I like wild speculation that does not include rain clouds of "well, it didn't happen" or "it happens in the comics," followed by spoiler tagged descriptions of the details.

Carls hat is holding its breath...... It has been passed around, and there are a few nicks, but please, please don't let it get near the mullet!

It's possible that Eugene, in his own head, believes he has the answer. Also possible that he is bat shit cray cray and doesn't realize that it was a video game in a dream. You have to remove the guts ASAP. The boy parts can wait til you're cutting the carcass into its cuts. At that point you have to carefully remove or be careful not to cut into any glands, including the family jewels while you're at it or it does make the meat stank and thangs....Men.Just in case anyone needs the info...... I'm a deer hunter. That's my story, and I'm sticking with it.

If I remember correctly, Carol told Rick that one of her reasons for putting Karen and David out of their misery was that they were going to drown in their own blood. I took that to mean that they were already choking on their own blood when she went to visit and that helped her make the call..... If they were the first ones that they saw get sick it's not like she had some other reference point for knowing that information. We did see that happen later. The same later in which Carol is beating herself up for making the call alone when it didn't do anybody but Karen and David any good. Yes. It did save them some suffering. They weren't going to make it because they were the first few and the second round of sick ones didn't even make it.

Carol is the only one of the prison group who watched the governor approach and attack the prison. Carol had obviously traveled back to the prison to reconnect, but was the only one who was already on the road, not running for her life. She may have seen, from a point of safety, each person who escaped. She's already been banished, been alone, decided to go back and had succeeded in returning to her destination. Carol isn't even planning on staying at the prison once she helps Tyrese get there! (Maybe because she realizes Tyrese can't live with her?)The refugees of the prison, on the other hand, are desperate, nearly broken victims hoping to find others and find safety. She and Tyrese,hear some type of conflict going down at her next destination, Terminus. Hmmm hasn't she seen something like this before? So Carol is probably more prepared for how cautious to be. Now let's consider this: although it was done for different reasons, what she did to Terminus is very similar to what she witnessed the governor do to the prison on two occasions.

We are all potentially the walking dead in a spiritual apocalypse spawned by the viral effects of materialism, nationalism and egotism. We look good, but how many have an aging portrait in the closet? Part of the function of an apocalypse is to destroy what is present so that what is better may have a place. Any virus is an apocalypse running through an individual. A fever, which is the unpleasant part, is what rids the body of the virus before the effects of the actual virus can take over and kill you. I recently brought a 92 year old person to an emergency room. The person thought they had a rash because they had no fever. I thought it looked like an infection. It was an infection. We were told that people over 90 often don't get the fever when they get an infection because an older body doesn't regulate temperature as well and perhaps it knows that the fever is just as lethal as the infection is. So...if we have walkers, if we have fever...if we have unpleasant purging experiences that means we are salvageable....but also as a human race that has developed compassion and healing technologies we also are salvageable. Yeah I am not basing this on more than my own contemplations

I don't know that other characters were erased for just so Carol could shine....I'm a strong person but if I were locked in a box I'd be significantly compromised in comparison to someone who was not. Besides, those people in the box are the most bad ass people in a box that I can imagine. I never thought Tyrese was emasculated by being the person so awesome that he can survive the same disaster as everyone else, and do it with kids. Again, I have personal experience with being both bad ass and being bad ass with kids. You get more kudos for being bad ass by yourself but really it takes a heluva lot more guts to not ditch the kids in a pinch. That he chose to protect the baby is a statement of his priorities and his abilities.

Oh yes, I had read all of the comments in the various threads and watched TTD before making mine, just thought I'd throw in one more angle. Really, Mary was not "all there" on so many levels. I'm also rubbing around the reasons as to why Carol didn't put Mary out of her misery with a bullet to the head: Was she just too busy? (I'm leaning towards this one) Carol is just, like, no answers, no time for small talk, deliberating or moralizing, gotta find my peeps. Smell ya later. Or not. In other words, I've put way more thought into it than Carol did. Did she not want to be directly responsible for killing someone she didn't have to? Is she over that after the "mercy killing" at the prison? Did she see a benefit to using Mary as walker bait to distract the puppies when she made her exit? Or, was she being Mary, by first the torturous shot to the leg while questioning and then allowing Mary to suffer being eaten alive? Personally I think this one is NOT the case. I think the two decisions were completely separate and non emotional. the shot to the leg was a bit of insurance against being bested, as well as a way to wake Mary up and let her know she meant business. I'm leaving now to live my real life, where it isn't necessary to ask myself these things because I don't live in a war zone.

I keep thinking about Carol telling Mary "you're not here. I'm not here either" or some such. Was she referring to the probability that the woman that Mary was before torture is not there anymore, that she's not her real self anymore?