Churchhoney

It would be nice to see a Duggar trait like the laziness have a good consequence for a change.

Good point. If you were looking for the very worst combination of traits for a couple of (multi)parents, it would be hard to do worse than a couple of terminally lazy, self-absorbed control freaks with a PR fetish. Yeah, that's where I get the younger-demographic-also idea. Especially the younger teenagers.

Wow, I'm envious! .... And this is why Jim Bob won't let his kids have friends. ha

They probably think we're all Satan's minions. Seriously. If this were another era, I'm sure they'd be accusing us of witchcraft.

Yeah, I know what you're saying. I do think there are a lot of very sheltering families that have let their kids watch the Duggars, though -- generally on dvds rather than on tv, perhaps -- when they don't let them watch other show.s ... And, if you're sheltered enough, you may not really know that flash and glitz, particularly, even exist. I really didn't. I knew more about daring and risk because I went to school and therefore read literature and history. But I couldn't develop a taste for the cool, hip and sophisticated because I was unexposed to it as much as my family could manage. i realize there aren't tons of families like that, and it's certainly much harder to do it today, but I'm pretty sure there are still some of these. I actually know a couple myself. Their teenage kids seem very very young in the whole how-you-present-yourself way, compared to other kids their age, just the way I did.

Well, Poultry Science would have been a heck of a lot more useful to somebody in his position -- i.e., somebody whose finances and family situation mean he should probably get a real job right now and not dither about with stuff that you can't really use until you have at least a bachelor's degree if not more. That's upsetting about the Poli Sci, though. I really don't like instances where the kids and, especially, their spouses seem to be lying. I'd like to think they're not totally infected with the JB and M diseases. Didn't he supposedly start out majoring in business? I suppose the various tales are the result of his untutored delusions of grandeur, in which he imagines he's going to be some sort of politician or televangelist (or both.). At some point, he's going to whack his head hard against the ceiling of his life, I'm afraid.

I guess I get the 14-year-old girl thing from some of the social media comments I see. ... But I'm sure you're right that there are probably older women (like moms and grandmas of the young teens who may be on social media?) too. But they probably aren't leaving instagram comments. .... Of course, they're not going to help to boost a church congregation's numbers either, since they're probably already members. So -- older and very young women but nobody in the cool-point-awarding area or Cross Church's most coveted demographics, I would expect.

Aren't they all?

My favorite part of this speculation: 'Peter Scanavino, who plays Detective Carisi chimed in, saying: '"I wouldn't mind doing one just because I have never been so infuriated with someone's level of hypocrisy, and lying, and then displacement of responsibility onto something else. When I think about that guy, it boils my blood, I will say."' Well said, Mr. Scanavino.

Or they delete them, anyway.

It is a dumb time to take off on purpose. (and I think Jessa'd know that) But I think it's possible that the "he's taking time off" thing is just another fudged, sorta-false statement, when what he's really doing is trying to figure out his exact next step. (of course, I also don't see why you wouldn't just say this -- so maybe I'm crazy here...) I doubt it's a simple process to find a school that's online or near enough for him to get to, will accept him, will offer him the courses that he wants or is willing to attend and will accept as many of his previously earned credits as possible to count toward his next degree. And before he did that, he would have to figure out exactly what kind of degree to shoot for, when his previous studies had been in different fields. I doubt that Ben's previously become an expert in seminaries or in theology-related degrees. So he would have a learning curve in several ways.

Me neither. Heck, if Jill stays out of the country and Jana and Jinger on the shelf, she's potentially got seven sisters and two nieces (and counting) she might borrow. Bring on the babies!

Some are, some aren't, I guess. I wonder whether Ben's main aim would be to get as many of his AA credits to transfer in as possible. Obviously, he can't get credit for the whole two years (or at least that seems obvious to me, since his major wasn't theology-related...), but there's probably variation in which schools would accept which credits. I assume he wants to go on to a BA but hopes it won't take another three years or more to get there if most of his credits don't transfer into the new major. Figuring that out plus finding a school nearby or online that works for him would probably take some research.

That's a really interesting question. Cause her headship is Ben now, right? And he wasn't raised Gothard at all. There's certainly some of that idea floating around in the family, given his dad's jobs, so maybe Vision Forum preached work for yourself, too? .... Or, if they didn't preach it as explicitly, I'm guessing they pretty much modeled it among their top people, like Botkin and so on.... But the Seewald's life has seemed to include both outside-the-home employment and some further education. So I'd think Ben could greenlight some additional activities for Jessa if she wanted to pursue anything. .... But of course they're living off of Jim Bob, so he probably retains a big say, even if only implicitly, plus the fact that they are living off him means they don't yet have any real concept of what it would cost for them to sustain themselves on their own. If you aren't paying your housing costs, your budget is about a million times different. So I'm thinking they don't really have a clue about what their needs might be if they were suddenly on their own for housing. I'd actually think a lot more of her if there was merely evidence that she was working by herself to perfect cooking, gardening, homemaking, childraising and schooling skills she'll need to raise the big brood of homeschooled Half-Duggarlings she talks about. (or even a smaller brood of them) Because if she doesn't get a lot of the learning and habit-forming in now, I don't think she'll squeeze it in after the flood of babies begins. And she may be doing that under the radar, but from the available evidence it kind of doesn't look like it.

That sounds about right for what the audience has done, although, boy howdy, you sure have to be blind not to see their all-encompassing negative attitude toward learning and growing, seems to me. Some people I know have home schooled (or unschooled), including both conservative Christian and very liberal non-Christian families, and while the atmospheres in their homes haven't been the same, the homeschooling environments and the homeschooling parents have all been as different from the Duggars as could be. You can just feel the energy and interest and the fostering of work ethic, curiosity, enjoyment of learning and doing. The parents have worked so hard to offer their kids as many good opportunities to learn as possible and you could see the kids responding to that and their various interests and talents blossoming. All the homes have books and media and supplies of all kinds all over them. Meanwhile, the Duggar house -- and the fantastic field trips the Duggs have been able to go on, thanks to TLC -- look like an interest-free dead zone. Listless lack of interest in schooling punctuated by episodes of screaming -- but still somehow boring -- chaos. And then you see the horrible modeling JB and M do, as they subtly or unsubtly keep dissing all training, education, people and places with differences you might learn from, and on and on. It's just tragic for those kids. But thinking that it's actually been sort of held up as a model for the nation because of the tv show is sickening.

Oh, that makes total sense. And the two career paths could hardly be more different. In fact, one could hardly be called a "career path." Or a "mission." Be careful in your marriage choices, people. I'm still trying to get my mind around the fact that people like Derick might actually watch the show and come away with the impression that freaking Michelle ever gave anybody an "education" of any account whatsoever. She's so obviously an ignorant idiot who is terminally lazy -- for whatever reason, think it could be largely depression -- and who doesn't give a crap for kids or have a clue about how to communicate with them. Plus, she and her husband clearly believe that you can become a skilled tradesman by watching somebody do a job for half an hour. I guess they hide behind the image of many homeschooling moms doing it because they care about their kids' education and putting a lot of energy into it. But the Dugg parents aren't this way in the least. They despise and belittle any learning at all every chance they get and present as total fools themselves despite their presentations having the benefits of retakes, scripts and professional editing.

Don't see how it can last. .... And, as others have mentioned, how do they get away with having untrained and unlicensed teenagers doing renos to sell? Does Jim Bob ever mess with proper permitting, or has he just paid everybody off over the years? Well, it's the only thing she's got, I guess. And in their world it's the only thing a woman ever gets except partial bragging and ownership rights to however many million blessings the couple turns out. I expect Jessa also says "my man" because she somehow thinks it's a hot thing to say. She seems to have quite a lot invested in being hot, I think.

I think you're on the money with this one. There's probably little that any church won't do these days if they think it'll draw in the young. Although I'm skeptical about how many of the independent young or unaffiliated young are Jill and Derick fans. I'd think their humpers are more likely to be highly sheltered 14-year-olds who are already well ensconced in churchgoing families, so not much of a get for the church. Aside from having been on tv, I can't see J and D being awarded cool points by any other demographic.

Let's start a rumor that the standing-next-to-Lawson-B thing was all a ploy to divert us from the real story -- that Jinger's courting the guy in the fishing hat.

Oh, interesting. So now he says they were commissioned by his home church again, doesn't he? So that must mean that SBC churches commission missionaries for non-SBC-run missions?... With the SBC having such a big, longstanding mission program of its own, I'm kind of surprised to hear that they'd do that. Or that they'd do it for a mission whose standards seem hard to locate....Although I guess the SBC is only a pretty loose affiliation these days, anyway ... Or maybe potential home-church skepticism could be why Derick is making various noises about doing a more substantive mission now, with the midwifery and the Hall-guy emulation. I think it'd be embarrassing to commission a missionary whose major contribution is out there on the internet in the form of that astonishing mime act.

Who did Derick go to Nepal with and what kind of mission was it? I have no idea. I've figured it can't be an SOS sort, since you probably couldn't do a U.S-fundie-tourism "mission" in Nepal. But who in fact was he with and what did they do? (and are they off somewhere with Mr. Bynum banging their heads against the wall as they watch what Derick's doing now?) ... Surely nobody was doing bad mime in Nepal.

Oh, yeah, I agree with you guys. I'm very disturbed by this whole world and the stuff they do. And I don't think that parents ever have the right to force their children into this kind of situation. But I'm not really commenting on any of that. The wrongness of it is a given, obviously. But I just think there's more to the picture. The thing is, knowing people who stay -- for decades, forever -- in horribly, unforgivably confining and manipulative situations, I know that some take much needed comfort from feeling that their confinement and the long-ago death of all their hopes is for a good purpose. If someone isn't going to leave in any case -- and I do think that there are probably Duggars, Kellers, Wallers and others who just won't, just as in my own family there have been people who just won't -- then that belief may be all that person has. And so i can't see it as all bad if they get some comfort from it, and I know people who do.

Yeah, I get you! I tend to agree with you as well, for the most part. However, it also seems to me that they have a different basis for morality. It's not yours or mine. But they believe in a being that has a higher plan that they can't fully understand. And that's their basis for choosing things. .... And I wouldn't call them fully wrong. For example, you say: "Why do the Duggar-types seem to enjoy believing they are victims/martyrs to 'god's plan', as if a) God wants them to do things they really do not want to do (strange for an almighty being - kinda cruel)." And I say that lots and lots of times, to this atheist, people including myself don't want to do things that are actually the right things to do, the better things. So why is it necessarily cruel for a higher principle of the universe to urge people to do those things anyway, for the greater good? That doesn't make you a victim of that higher principle -- it lets you lean on the higher principle's help to keep yourself from making a choice that may not be for the greater good, even though it greatly appeals to you. I think a lot of people -- and these silly people, especially -- take way too shallow and selfish a view of their higher being's principles and preferences. But I don't see anything inherently wrong -- at all -- with checking out your personal choices against some principle that's bigger than you are. I don't happen to believe in their god, and I do think they take a shallow childish view of the god of the universe. And I don't think that parents have any right to force their children into decisions on this basis. But these are clearly all kind of dumb and quite fearful people, and I think that's why they have such narrow views and take this idea too far and into narrow-minded and constricting places. Nevertheless, I don't see that their basis for making this kind of decision as fundamentally different from my trying to consult my own principles about whether I should follow my own personal wants or do something that I -- perhaps reluctantly -- see as leading to the higher good. And I would rather see people like DW and PW have the potential for finding meaning in their lives because of that belief than have them experience nothing but sad and bitter feelings over a marriage that didn't coincide with their desires. If I thought they were people who'd walk off from their families and go their own way, I'd wish that for them instead. But I suspect they aren't people who would do that, at least not yet, so I would hope they could get some comfort out of feeling their sacrifices have a meaning, even if they don''t know today what that meaning is. .... That's what I hope for everybody who sacrifices something, really. And I don't think sacrifice is inherently foolish.

Yeah. Could definitely mean something. .... Or maybe Boob just wanted to spark a Disney rumor to fuel interest among the UP execs. ... Or, Boob being Boob, he thought he might get in to see old Walt himself and convert him. I must say I'm seeing more and more a cartoon spinoff with Boob as Homer Simpson on venality pills. Could be called "Sick Simpsons." Maybe nobody in Arkansas wants to sell them their cars. Of course, Orlando probably has upwards of a zillion used hotel vans. Maybe there was a fire sale.

See, you fail to think of the big picture. If you simply buy the food, the selfie you post on social media will have way less chance of getting a media pickup or going viral. Gotta keep our eyes on the prize here -- continued celebrity mentions and potential advertiser payments!