Churchhoney

This. .... And especially when people around you are wildly urging you to minimize it all, as I'm sure is what's happening, at least on the part of Jim Boob and Michelle, if not the whole damned family. People who go on national television to proclaim that a molestation wasn't very serious because it occurred while a child was sleeping obviously have absolutely no clue about the ethics and psychology of sexual things. (Sorry, but I still haven't stopped reeling over the Duggar clan's insistence that molesting a sleeping person is only an itty bitty peccadillo when it's the very worst thing in this whole mess. Everything this bunch of arrogant yahoos thinks is upside down and backwards, so I'm quite sure they're doing and saying the very worst things possible to Anna right now.)

Well, Sonny doesn't need it any more.

Hurrah for public pressure. Just the fact that they booked them at all, even two years ago, though, unfortunately shows that too many leaders of the province's homeschooling group don't actually believe in education, just indoctrination, misogyny and tales of white heterosexual Christian prosecution. Too bad that any "homeschooling" group is dominated by the segment that wants to hear from the Duggars, since it surely ought to be clear to anybody even slightly observant that they believe only in ignorance, not learning.

Rote and choppy is it. Of course, to have it otherwise, they'd need to a) know something and b) feel something, and neither of those is permitted.

My theory: Fundamentalisms of all kinds were invented by insecure, egotistical, control-freak men as a means of holding on to what they want. Ergo, fundamentalisms are obsessed with all the shallowest and meanest desires of such men. Seems to me we have proof of this theory in just about everything that goes on in these groups.

David and Priscilla and all these offspring of the cultists are damaged, and I suppose that the slightly different ways they're behaving as young adults result from their different underlying natures and how the damage interacts with those. If this were the wizarding world we'd say they had been put under the unforgivable Imperius Curse, which is even more unforgivable when it's done to young children, since they have almost no way to defend themselves against it. Gothard, JIm Bob Duggar and the like are all little Voldemorts, not only authorizing willy nilly use of Imperio! but downright calling it a necessity to use it on everybody you can get your hands on to further your own incredibly selfish ends. Jessa's smugness and Jill's stupid smile and David's and Priscilla's various shades of zombieness -- all marks of that happy (while hideous) trance people are in when they've been robbed of their own individualities and personhoods by the disgusting curse. The destruction of children in the name of Jesus. Pretty much the height of unforgivable, I'd say.

Maybe when they look at all their current shows, TLC only really sees a steady and identifiable fanbase for the Duggars, and not for their other shows? That could make them see the Duggs as more of sure thing than anything else they've got, even though the sure thing has become a bit shaky of late. When you look at the extreme proliferation of sequels and prequels and spinoffs and remakes and copycats that Hollywood has been producing for the past few decades, I think it's pretty clear that the entertainment industry's kinda fearful game plan is to repeat the most successful of what you've got, no matter how stupid the repeat may be, rather than trying to be, you know, more creative. Halloween 48 may be horrible and not pull in that many viewers, but the entertainment industry still seems to place more confidence in it than in some new and untried idea. I wouldn't be surprised if that's the dynamic at work here with TLC. "What've we got that's done pretty well? Oh, the Duggars. Well, we'll just take out the child-molestation parts and go with that again."

But where would she go and what would she do? I doubt she knows anyone besides Michelle's family members who would shelter her from the Duggars, and maybe even they wouldn't? And if she left, she'd then have to confront the very big question of how she would live and support herself in the world as she believes it is. To me, maybe the biggest thing that's been robbed from the Duggar kids, especially the girls, is any confidence that they could function in the world outside the compound walls. They've deliberately been deprived of all knowledge, education, training and experience that would suggest to them that they could work for a living for non-Duggar people, and they've been constantly told that the outside world is utterly evil and lying in wait to destroy them, for this world and eternity. To leave literally everything and everyone you've known, the essential ingredient is some confidence that the completely new world you're entering won't snuff you out instantly. When I left my confines, I had that because I'd been to school and had some jobs. But I don't see any place at all in which a Duggar girl would get even a smidgen of such confidence. JB and M have bent all their efforts to making sure the girls don't gain any such confidence anywhere, and they've succeeded. The only place they feel safe to go is to other Gothardite types, even when married -- see Dillards' new "profession" -- and that's not leaving. And it took Derick even to get one of the girls that far. I highly doubt that a Duggar girl alone would even have the confidence to do something like that -- beyond short trips to JB-and-M-sanctioned prison camps like Journey to the Heart -- let alone to leave Duggardom altogether. I'm sure that they can't even imagine a non-JB-and-M world in which they could safely and successfully function for a week, let alone for the rest of their lives. To me, the only hope is that JB and M have been too distracted and smug to brainwash the younger kids quite as much, and that some actual knowledge of the outside world has sneaked into some of their brains while their horrible parents were busy being tv stars.

Yeah. but the key word isn't "Bible." It's "believing." And it's an extremely common phrase and concept among a lot of fundies, and to them it means claiming to embrace the Bible as wholly true, literal, factual, non-metaphorical, non-symbolic, utterly complete system that rules every aspect of life including toothbrush purchases, etc. etc. etc. And it draws the distinction not only with Catholics; but all mainstream Protestants -- Lutherans, Presbyterians, UCC and so on; the megachurches; the moderate and liberal evangelicals like Jim Wallis and so on; and all the other minority Christian churches like Seventh Day Adventist, Latter Day Saints, and so on and so forth. In their minds, they truly believe, while all the others merely hedge and ignore and fail to embrace the thing fully. The minute you start looking into conservative churches you see "Bible-believing church" and "Bible-believing Christian" everywhere. And it's the culture that these guys are absolutely steeped in. The Duggars probably don't even know anybody who doesn't use this phrase and believe they're these single fragment of true believers. And I kind of doubt whether Derick knows many who don't either. I'm sure he doesn't really fraternize with any who don't. It may be one of the few things they actually do, other than walking around gawking at locals and socializing with U.S. missioncationers. ... Could be the only thing they have on their schedules that sounds like work.

I expect this is kind of a general statement. Most of Latin America has been leaning a bit or a lot leftward in recent years, and when you read stuff that S.O.S. devotees say, they voice big opposition to all left-leaning governments, right alongside their big opposition to Catholicism. They clearly want conservative (or what we call conservative, anyway) political rule alongside a conservative Protestant religious climate.

Adding an extra twist is that ISIS seems to be selling some artifacts to Western dealers and then blowing up the sites. So the hobbyist lobbyists may well be funding ISIS with their buys. http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/isis-profits-from-destruction-of-antiquities-by-selling-relics-to-dealers-and-then-blowing-up-the-10483421.html

This honesty thing is where I'm betting Derick's Nepal experience under the (cloaked) auspices of the IMB plays a role. I'm still convinced that he went in there under their "Creative Access" program, with his cover being a combo of language programs and part-time work for a trekking company someone from IMB helped locals set up. But to him -- and to IMB -- his "real" work was sticking like glue to some of those same locals and jawing them about conversion during work hours, while socializing and so on. With IMB -- the apparent gold standard of conservative-Christian missions -- embracing the idea of sending missionaries to convert while denying that those people are there for that reason, I would think that Derick would feel quite comfortable in a situation where he did two jobs on his "mission" but only talked about one of them. The S.O.S. guy likely has a similar slant on the thing. Here's what he says about his "ministry" -- 'The very nature of the acronym S.O.S. states our purpose: Seekers Of Souls. For even the Apostle Paul declared that he was not seeking his own profit or gain, but seeking “the profit of many, that they may be saved. Be imitators of me, just as I also am of Christ.” (I Cor. 10:33-11:1) Pursuing those who are hopeless so they may become believers of our Lord has become our vision and passion in following both the example of Christ and Paul. Though the Lord is the one who convicts, draws, and saves, He has called all believers to seek out the lost and bear witness to His message of redemption. As echoed in the words of the dear Apostle in the book of Romans, we too desire to have “beautiful feet”.'... '...“We are a Faith-Based Ministry”: We are a faith-based ministry. That means 100% of the funds we need to live and work on are donated by fellowships, businesses and people who believe as we do. We are trusting God to provide for our needs. Therefore, we seek to be a blessing and a challenge in regards to missions whenever possible and trust that God will touch the hearts of those whom should be involved financially in the work. We will trust that you, in fellowship with God, can determine if it is His will for you to support us.' http://www.soshope.org/about/ And then he says this about the missioncations -- 'Woven into the fabric of S.O.S. Ministries are Short Term Mission Trips. Each trip is different based on the needs of those being served and based on what God chooses to do on a specific trip.' http://www.soshope.org/serve-overseas/ So it's God directing those tour groups to perform mime. I'll bet Derick just sees this as the same IMB-sanctioned doublespeak and is thrilled that this time it's the conversion mission he gets to talk about while perhaps being encouraged to say little about the business angle, instead of the other way around. .... To me, stuff Derick's said suggests that he would love to see and portray himself as a conversion missionary all the time, rather than a part-time trek company employee or a leader of teenage tour groups, but IMB wouldn't allow that -- for fear of inspiring government crackdowns around the world -- while Mr. S.O.S.'s business plan requires the opposite, actually telling J and D to put themselves forward as Seekers of Souls rather than tour guides. ... No wonder Derick's all in on Mr. S.O.S.'s project. Also -- somehow I missed this earlier, but I recently saw the news that the IMB is working to cut about 800 people from their rolls, which have already greatly declined from their 2009 levels. So no wonder D Dullard would seek another way to seek souls. Even if he and Jill were much closer to being qualified, their shot at IMB jobs would still be much diminished from what he may have hoped earlier. http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2015/august-web-only/southern-baptists-will-cut-800-missionaries-imb-david-platt.html

Ah, I believe you are the queen of overstatement! (But thanks, anyway!) I'm hard to get rid of completely. ; - )

But the S.O.S. guy is a huge star in the Gothard circles they run in and that are really all the Duggars know. And, I would guess, with that being the case tons of people they know go on these missioncations and consider them wonderful things sent by God etc. Just a couple of weeks ago he was a big fat honored guest at the Gothard "family camp" or whatever that thing is that's apparently the highlight of the year in their culture. So with that the case throughout their own social/religious circle, what would lead them to see it any differently? This looks tone deaf to those of us with utterly different modes of life, but to the people Jill has known and respected for her whole life -- and to the whole culture in which Derick is now a newly married partner -- it's a great thing to do. How many people have clear perceptions about what's done and not done in social milieus that are completely different from their own, especially when they're people who have been very sheltered in a single lifestyle (or probably pretty close to it, in Derick's case) for a whole lifetime? I'm sure that if I went into a Gothard-type group, I would have absolutely no clue what was an acceptable thing and what an unacceptable. I'd be utterly tone deaf. That's the situation that the Duggar kids are in with respect to the rest of us. They've never been to school -- not for one day to any school at any level. They've never worked outside the home. They have no close friends and the friendquaintances they do have are all from the exact same cultish background as they are and, for the most part, are Duggar worshippers. They don't ride on public transportation, play in playgrounds with neighbor kids, or join girl scouts or reading groups or knitting circles. They've seldom attended churches outside of their own group -- often their only churches have been in buildings their father owns and with an invitation-only congregation. They go to the store only in the company of family members so they don't even have an opportunity to have casual conversations with strangers. They don't read books, magazines or newspapers except as published by their own cultish group and people with the same sympathies, they don't watch tv or listen to radio, and they only go online as much as they can sneak past e-controls, accountability buddies, and many years of teachings about the satanic nature of what they'll run into there. The Duggars' previous visits to Latin America under the auspices of the same group J and D are in now -- and completely taken up with activities like fingernail painting -- have not only been heralded by their fellow cultists but have been portrayed as wonderful by a mainstream tv network and gotten them People covers. What basis of knowledge and understanding can they possibly have that would allow them to label as wrong and unacceptable behavior that's not just accepted but applauded and viewed as a holy by their entire circle? Derick has a somewhat different situation, but he's pretty clearly a newlywed weenie who is now pretty completely under the control of his wife and his in-laws. Plus, he clearly believes that mission-as-conversion is a great great thing, and that's what their new leader, the S.O.S. guy, presumably does. And he does it to the applause of quite a few people. Seems to me that it will take a heck of a lot more experience before they could possibly be equipped to understand how most people view what they're doing, and Jill has so thoroughly embraced her brainwashing that I don't know if anything could shake it.

The particular version of the metaphor that floats around in Duggary, Gothardy circles comes from Rushdoony. He was very involved in pushing the early years of the Christian homeschooling movement and definitely implanted his big ideas throughout that movement. And it's not a shooting army, but it is an army in the sense that it's intended to be a group of very determined people that's big enough, committed enough and active enough to take over the currently secular institutions of this world. As here: http://forums.previously.tv/topic/4649-jessa-and-ben-aka-benessa/page-179 "The Army of the Faithful "There is no doubt the church suffers in times like these. As I’ve stated, much of that is due to the fact that we’re established upon the same foundation of sand. But as the army of God, our approach to tribulation is to see it as a call to activation: "The church is not merely a victim in the world struggle: it must also be an active and aggressive army.14 We cannot take the posture of a victim, nor be reduced to doomsaying. We are called to victory in Christ Jesus, and we must proclaim that victory to the wider Christian community so that they, too, might share in our security. It is by our faithfulness in these times that God becomes for us a refuge. Therefore, I both anticipate and expect to see God’s provision made manifest on behalf of those that keep their focus upon the true riches that exceed gold and silver. It is my simple belief that God concerns Himself with those that concern themselves with His Kingdom. This is the calling of the redeemed: "'Regenerate man … works to reestablish the law order of God among men, to establish church, state, and society in terms of the word of God, and to manifest the kingdom of God in its every meaning'.15 "... [T]oday, men, churches, and nations which are not faithful to Shiloh are, like Judah, cast aside and sent into captivity. Those who stand by faith and under the Messiah’s authority reign with Him. It is the nations of our time, not Christ’s Kingdom, who are in trouble and under judgment. Until they are in obedience to Christ, they are under His wrath and His judgment.16 "Prepare Your Heart for Action "Humanism is a house built upon sand, and the coming storms will wreak havoc on its structure. The house of humanism is on fire, but out of it can arise the visible Kingdom of God, if the church can become epistemologically aware of the implications of its faith. This is where you and I come in. It is our responsibility to gather up what we have learned in order to disseminate it aggressively to a church more prone to listen. "Mobilization is the key. Or, as Rushdoony once wrote: “We are interested in thinking for action.”17 Theology in itself is insufficient, unless it is used to transform the church into a marching army. The purpose of Chalcedon is to help prepare a generation of Christian soldiers who will not flinch in perilous times. This is the great calling by the Lord of Hosts. "To reach this point, we must first establish our hearts (1 Thess. 3:2). Let all fear be dispelled (2 Tim. 1:7), and rejoice always (Phil. 4:4). Let us not be anxious about our times, but rather bring them up to God in prayer with immeasurable thanksgiving (v. 6). The God of peace will be with us (v. 9). By these means you can endure as a good soldier of Jesus Christ (2 Tim. 2:3)."

Yeah, I agree. It's definitely harder for people to break away when they've got something cushy. Not only do they get accustomed to the cushiness, but it's even harder to be critical of the situation as well. All the meal times are slated for half an hour only. I'd love to know why. .... Maybe that tradition kind of explains the extreme ad hoc and haphazard nature of the Duggars' eating schedules? .... It's just a grab-and-go culture? (which seems really odd for a group so heavy on "family time")

Yep. All of this. .... I think Bin and Derick were clearly showing off for the whole Duggar clan and each other. Derick sits down on the cookie sheet and even though he's on a snow-covered hill that he could certainly slide down without a push, Bin pushes him right toward the cat so hard that Bin falls on his face doing it..... Meanwhile, Duggars are urging them on with tons of sadistic laughter. It's kind of like a fraternity initiation. Don't ever watch it. The involvement of so many kids makes it even worse than it sounds when it's described.

Oh, look. JB and M are sharing their wisdom at ALERT "family camp" this week. Here's what they'll talk about: 'Learning to rely on God’s grace through the trials of the past few months, Jim Bob and Michelle will share their family experiences of standing for the Gospel on the front lines of social media. Filled with the knowledge of God’s goodness despite hardships, Jim Bob and Michelle will encourage our families to “run with endurance the race that is set before us.”' http://www.alertacademy.com/iaa/fc/program/speakers/ All this, and Louie Gohmert will be there too! Who could ask for more? Had no idea that this is what Louie's doing: ' Serving his sixth term in the United States House of Representatives, Congressman Louie Gohmert courageously defends our constitution through his Biblical perspective, on the front lines of our nation. Join us as Congressman Gohmert inspires us to be involved in our constitutional republic and stand up for our faith.' With Jim Bob and Louie as leading lights of the same organization, I don't think "Alert" is a very good name for it. Oops, missed another leading light. Mr. S.O.S. is there, too: 'Family Camp 2015 Theme: On the Front Lines, Standing for your Faith Join us October 10-17, 2015 as we encourage each other to “stand fast in the faith” and enjoy an unforgettable time of fellowship. This year’s confirmed speakers include: Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar – 19 Kids & Counting & DuggarFamily.com Mike Schadt – S.O.S. Ministries Lew Sterrett – Sermon on the Mount' http://www.alertacademy.com/iaa/fc/ Family Camp 2015 Schedule of Events The Lakefront will be open from 7:30 AM–6:00 PM daily. No swimming please. Also, please note that the Camp Office, Retail Sales and Concessions will be closed during every prayer time and camp meeting. Saturday, October 10 8:00 AM–6:30 PM Check-in/Activity Sign-Up Camp Store Open 3:00 PM Children’s Bible Story Hour (Chapel) 5:00–5:30 PM Dinner 5:45 PM Orchestra Rehearsal & Prelude 6:30 PM Family Prayer Time 7:00 PM Camp Meeting–Guest Speaker 8:30–10:00 PM Family Time, Gym Open 10:00 PM–6:00 AM Quiet Time/Taps Sunday, October 11 7:15–8:00 AM Archery Demonstration & Devotional (Archery Area) 8:00–8:30 AM Breakfast 8:45 AM Orchestra Rehearsal & Prelude 9:30 AM Camp Meeting–Guest Speaker 12:00–12:30 PM Lunch 12:30–5:00 PM Family Time 3:00 PM Children’s Bible Story Hour (Chapel) 5:00–5:30 PM Dinner 5:45 PM Orchestra Rehearsal & Prelude 6:30 PM Family Prayer Time 7:00 PM Camp Meeting–Guest Speaker 8:30 PM Outdoor Movie Night & Popcorn at the Corral 10:00 PM–6:00 PM Quiet Time (Retail Sales & Concessions closed, ice is available for purchase on Sunday) Monday, October 12 7:30–8:00 AM Breakfast 9:30–11:00 AM Lew at the Corral 11:00 AM Volleyball Captain’s Meeting 11:30 AM Bicycle Safety Course (In front of the Convention Center) 12:00–12:30 PM Lunch 1:00–4:30 PM Activities 3:00–4:00 PM Children’s Bible Story Hour (Chapel) 5:00–5:30 PM Dinner 5:45 PM Orchestra Rehearsal & Prelude 6:30 PM Family Prayer Time 7:00 PM Camp Meeting – “The Legend of El Ricoh” 8:00–9:00 PM Campfire Sing-Alongs (South Chapel Field) 10:00 PM–6:00 AM Quiet Time Tuesday, October 13 7:30–8:00 AM Breakfast 9:00 AM Sword Fighting Demonstration 12:00–12:30 PM Lunch 1:30–4:30 PM Family Heritage Day 5:00 PM Dinner on the Grounds 7:00 PM Special Community Camp Meeting–Guest Speaker 8:00–10:00 PM Family time 10:00 PM–6:00 AM Quiet time Wednesday, October 14 7:30–8:00 AM Breakfast 9:00–10:30 AM Bike Wagon and Fire Engine Decorating (Convention Center) 10:45–12:00 PM First Annual Bicycle Parade 12:00–12:30 PM Lunch 1:00–4:30 PM Activities 3:00–4:00 PM Children’s Bible Story Hour (Chapel) 5:00–5:30 PM Dinner 5:45 PM Orchestra Rehearsal & Prelude 6:30 PM Family Prayer Time 7:00 PM Camp Meeting–Guest Speaker 8:00–10:00 PM Family Time, Gym Open 10:00 PM–6:00 AM Quiet Time Thursday, October 15 7:30–8:00 AM Breakfast 8:00–9:00 AM Family Camp 5K 8:00 AM–12:00 PM Basketball Tournament (Gymnasium) 9:00 AM–12:00 PM Trade Days 12:00–12:30 PM Lunch 1:00-4:30 PM Activities 1:30 PM–4:30 PM Disc Golf Tournament 3:00 PM Children’s Bible Story Hour (Chapel) 5:00-5:30 PM Dinner 5:45 PM Orchestra Rehearsal & Prelude 6:30 PM Family Prayer Time 7:00 PM Camp Meeting–Guest Speaker 8:00 PM Johnson Family Special Concert 9:00–10:00 PM Family Time 10:00 PM–6:00 AM Quiet Time Friday, October 16 7:30–8:00 AM Breakfast 8:00 AM Volleyball Tournament Semi-finals and Finals 9:00–11:30 AM Activities 9:30 AM Horseshoe Tournament – Campground 12:00–12:30 PM Lunch 1:00–4:30 PM Lakefront Activities and Family Canoe Races 5:00–5:30 PM Dinner 5:45 PM Orchestra Rehearsal & Prelude 6:30 PM Family Prayer Time 7:00 PM Camp Meeting–Guest Speaker 8:00–11:00 PM Family Time, Gym Open 10:00 PM–6:00 AM Quiet Time Saturday, October 17 8:00–11:00 AM Checkout, Camp Office Open 10:30–11:00 AM Brunch

You gotta feel on top of somebody. It's nature. Can only be overcome by thought and will power, I think. And, as we know, the Duggars have neither of these items, at least any that they're interested in utilizing.

I'm not so sure. It was clearly Ben who aimed him right at the cat and gave him a mighty push. If either one was the main driver of that little incident, I think Ben was at least at much at fault and maybe more so -- he didn't have to give him a mighty push. However, I kind of think it may well have been one of those things that neither would have done if left to his own devices. But there was pretty clearly a bunch of Duggars behind egging them on because they thought it was hilarious to cause feline mayhem. To my disappointment, it sounds to me like Joy who was having the most hilariously sadistic great time at the cat's expense. I wouldn't bet on either Ben or Derick being a driver of the sadism. I haven't seen evidence of that elsewhere with either. But they're followers and hanging around Duggars asks for sadism if you're going to fit in, I think. And Ben and Derick are both very hungry to fit in. To me they're like two sad little eight-year-old boys awkwardly trying to be just like the cool kids... who are jerks. Stupid to be that way at their ages or to think that the Duggars are cool. But there it is.

Yeah, but it has a lot of pretensions; "covers" everything, not just celeb stuff; and actually does enough pieces that are reported to at least some degree that it's become increasingly prominent among the hordes of 24-7 online "media outlets" that are out there. It's one of the aggregators that tries to present itself as something more than an aggregator in format and so on.

Yeah, I think that's certainly a factor, in some cases anyway. Women do it all too, though, so with them it's something else.

Yeah, I don't think any of them know anything that's been going on inside Josh at all, at least since he turned 12 or so and most likely before. Yet another thing that they completely deny as they pontificate about their children and their childraising methods. But, in keeping with their usual simplistic nonsense, I think they believe that all people are quite easy to understand and behave according to principles that the Duggars have well in hand. I would bet that they really are that clueless -- still.

Yeah, in the actual religious belief system they supposedly embrace, this is definitely stated. I think Michelle is speaking much more out of her and Jim Bob's mental sickness than out of anything else. I believe that the particular book that Jim Bob passed on doesn't illustrate the clitoris, though, if I recall correctly. So there may be some problem with actually accomplishing that enjoyment! But still. ..... The Cross Church sermon that everybody's always bitching about, too. ... I actually listened to the whole thing, and it really didn't say what is being attributed to it. In a very very long listing of all kinds of sexual issues, it devoted about a sentence or two to saying that spouses have a duty to be sensitive to their spouses' sexual needs and desires and that doing so improves a marriage. But it did not make that statement gender-specific (i.e., put this entirely on the wife), it never said that a spouse must always be available or that not being available can lead the other person to use porn, and it did specifically say that husbands should do their best to make wives feel loved and desired. So the message from most people, even ones in the Duggar environs, is at least not always expressed in the crazy-ass terms that Michelle uses. She's on the fringe end, even among their group, and it seems that the Duggars also have passed on some of the less nutso messages to the kids themselves, at least sometimes. I think it's exactly that kind of fear-based thing. Yeah.

Blanket training per se hadn't been invented, I don't think. But the same will-breaking principles, reign of terror, belief that babies cry because they're evil and greedy and that they should shut up because it's bothering the people in charge, etc. etc., yeah. All that in spades. The message from birth is -- you are worthless and your will must be extinguished, so anything that you feel or desire will be used as a weapon against you. Even the deliberate tempting of kids to do things that they are being trained not to do. .... It all predates "blanket training." I think it's been part of will-breakers' arsenals for as long as humans have existed, probably. ... And it's all "blanket training" without the name. What it really does is get you to fully internalize the authorities' demands, and when they aren't around, you make those demands on yourself. I still do it. I've mentioned my inability to even look at any piece of clothing in a store that isn't a turtleneck. And as soon as something comes up in my life that I really want to do, it sets off the voices in my head that tell me I do not want to do it. And this is what happens many decades later with someone who actually recognized that it was all wrong and evil at about age three, was furious about it, and walked away as soon as she had the ability. .... THe effects are obviously even more insidious for others, I know.