Raachel2008

Really? I thought he was going to send Shireen to the Red Priestess school or whatever. No one could predict what Bran would do or that Hodor was never an impaired person. :(

That's where my thinking is at, too: Arya sails off into parts unknown, looking for adventure. I can't find the exact quote, but I could have sworn one of the GOT writers said that Season 4 contains a lot of foreshadowing for the end of the show. Arya's last scene in 4x10 could be one such example. Agreed, Arya is a free sprit, the 'wild child'. It doesn't mean she doesn't love her family or won't be part of their lives. I envision Arya sort of like that uncle that travels the world and comes back every two years and then leaves again. I'm one of those who beleives GoT is a story being told by someone, most likely Sam. The third shock, IMO, is something none of us we'll see coming, which crosses off the list Jon or Dany dying, Jon becoming NK, or Dany turning full Aerys. I personally don't think Jon will become NK, or that Dany will become Aerys, but that has been speculated for ages, as well as one fo them dying. Nobody really saw Stannis burning Shireen, specially taking in account book Stannis, who was the best, and if anyone says they predicted the Hodor shock they are lying. As far as the endgame goes, I think Arya lives and leaves Westeros. Jamie kills Cersei and dies fighting the Others or saving Brienne. if Tormund doesn't die saving her. Either way, Tormund dies. Brienne stays with Sansa. Sansa lives and rules whatever is left of the North/Winterfell. Dany dies sacrificing herself for the people of Westeros. Theon kills himself after a short redemption arc. Melisandre, Varys, Jorah,the Hound, the Mountain, Beric, Euron, Qyburn, Melisandre, all dead, as well as most Northern Lords/Houses and SweetRobbin. Lyanna lives, Alys Karstark dies saving Sansa. Tyrion ends miserable and unhappy. Jon kills the NK. The WWs, wights, all gone. Magic leaves the world, Bran fades away. I can see Jon ending on the Iron Throne, but that is almost too easy, so no idea. ETA: I LOVE Davos and I want him to live, but I cannot believe Tormund, Davos and Tyrion all live.

Then maybe I understood you wrong, so apologies. My point is that whatever happens, I'm sure the NK is a goner and he will go by Jon's hands. I have many doubts if the enemy as a whole will be gone, though. One thing I've always wondered is if the battle/war to come will also mean the beggining of the end for magic in Westeros.

Nah, Freddie Stroma, who played Dickon (ha!) Tarly was cast in an ABC series and couldn't do both. He is fairly attractive himself, so I don't think it is about Tom Hopper being a hot guy. Actually Ed Skrein wanted to leave the show to pursue other roles. IIRC he has done a few things since leaving the show, like Deadpool.

With all due respect, there is a difference between people you freed and whorshipped you, and your own child. I didn't say they were going to win over the Others, just that Jon himself will kill the NK. ETA: For me it looks like the NK will be defeated, that doesn't mean all the Others will die. The NK is a 'main' character, his fate is as important as everybody else's. The way I see it, the story is being told as Jon Snow, the bastard of the North, facing again the NK. I don't believe for a second that Jon will die again, he will have Longclaw in battle since Jorah reffuses to accept it, and since he is one of the heroes of GoT and the hero of this particular story , I have no doubts that he is the one who will kill the NK. Will killing/destroying the NK make all the Others disappear? Will it happen in a moment where there is so much destruction Westeros is not the same? Will this battler happen in Riverlands and not near the Wall? I don't know. I just don't believe that things will come back to what they were before.

I disagree, Dany would never leave her child behind in King's Landing to return to Essos to erradicate slavery. She can fight slavery sitting her ass on the IT, if she chooses, and I doubt that if and when she gets the IT she will go away for something she can do from KL. Even if she does, no way she would leave kidlet behind - that would be stupid and endanger the kid. Assuming Dany and Jon have a child, the only way I can see Jon not raising his own child is if he is dead or doesn't know he has a child. I've seen this theory about Jon being forced to join the Others, and while it is a pretty good dramatic end for the whole saga, I don't think it will happen. I think Jon will kill the Night King - his big killing in the show. There is no truce, the Others didn't spend a millenia waiting for their time to come only to shake hands and go back from whatever hole they came from. There will be no new Wall or crows or Night's Watch; whatever happens after the Wall crashes, things won't ever be the same. Just my 2 cents.

Jon didn't want to be Lord Commander and he didn't want to the KITN either, no way he wants to be King of Westeros. The first two tittles were 'given' to him, I'm willing to bet that if he ends sitting on the Iron Throne it will be in a similar way. No kidding, I don't think anyone will be happy at the end of season 8, though I will be relieved to know the end of the story. I would love all those people to get their happy endings, but that is not going to happen. Will most viewers care? Dany and Jon are strangers, never met, weren't raised as family. How one thing prevents the other from happening?

I think the most important question is how people are going to believe Jon is a Taragryen. Sam is his BFF, Bran is his brother, unless Bran makes everyone see Lyanna and Rhaegar marrying and what Lyanna said to Ned during childbirth, how could they? Maybe Sam could steal the documents from the Citadel, but even so, wil it be enough? I don't think D&D would pass the chance to revel Jon's true origin in some spetacular scene, like burning a few wights or whatever.

We don't know how GRRM will solve this in the books (Ah! As if he will ever finish it), but very little is known about show Lyanna and show Rhaegar: he kiddnapped her, his wife and kids were killed by the Lannisters, her father and brother were killed by his father, Robert was in love with her and started a war because of her (among ohter reasons); she was seen giving birth in a guarded tower and asking Ned to not tell Robert, and she is Jon's mother. Remember, for some regular viewers it wasn't even clear that Jon was Rhaegar's son, so D&D have a lot of room to work there. Add to all this the fact that the timeline of all those events wasn't properly explained - the info was scattered over six seasons - they can do something like Lyanna and Rhaegar falling in love, going away, and getting married without knowing that Aerys had killed Rickard and Bradon. It is easy to buy that Rhaegar never thought Aerys would go batshit insane against his own family, or that Lyanna, who was very young, wouldn't have seen any big troubles in the horizon. They never said how Ellia and Rhaegar's kids were called on the show, did they? They could change it, so Aegon become something else, like Rhaegon or whatever. The annulment part doesn't make much sense for me, though. How can you annul a marriage when the couple had children? Wouldn't it have annuled Ellia's children rights to the throne either? Wouldn't Dorne have gone ballistic? So confusing.

Dany deserves way better than dying in childbirth to be reunited with Drogo. Since they have Dany saying out loud that Drogo raped her, I wonder if we will see Dany saying that yes, the child/teen she was back then loved Drogo, and she is a woman and a different person now and knows better. It really pisses me off the idea that Dany wouldn't be able to be a mother for her child because she has to be reunited with Drogo. IF Dany and Jon have a child, which I think is a given since, you know, the anvils are the size of Wall, I don't think Dany will die in childbirth. I imagine that if she has to die, it will be sacrificing herself to those she loves - Jon, baby messiah, Misandei, GW, the Insullied, etc - as well as for the people she wants to rule, so they can all survive. I could be wrong, though, and the end maybe is all about Dany ruling happily after all with Jon and kid. Not happening. That would do a disservice to Tyrion, wouldn't accomplish anything in the story telling, and sounds highly implausibe: there is no way Dany wouldn't set Tyrion straight about what she wants. If she is in love with Jon and wants him, no way she would allow Tyrion to interfere. I doubt Jon would care or see Tyrion as a rival, either. I think they are writting Tyrion being smitten with Dany (sorry, I don't buy it is love) to make his bonds to Dany as strong as possible, so there will be no doubts where his loyalty lies. Oh maybe Dany leaves part of the Dothraki behind, which would be unwise at least - those guys don't operate by the normal rules and would start pilaging and raping as soons as they got bored and the dragons were out of sight. I would love to see Jorah comarning the Dothraki in some capacity; as you said he is the best one for this. But I'm not quite convinced that D&D cared about those details. The Dothraki being leaded to the North would mean they need to time to get there and we all know that warp factor is a reality in Westeros now.

Why in the name of all that is holly are we still dealing with this LF nonsense? Seven episodes of this fuckery while D&D could have done so much more with Sansa in the North. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but does Gendry knows he is Robert's son? I'm sorry, but when was Tyrion in love with Sansa? Because he was in love with Shae. Sure, Tyrion cared about Sansa, but love? Nope, not on screen. I'm willing to bet that when Jon finds out he is Aegon Targaryen, his words will be something along the lines of "I was never Jon Stark, I will never be Aegon Targaryen. I'm Jon Snow". Emilia and Kit better be able to sell this Dany/Jon thing because it is not like they have a lot of material to play. I still don't think trying to capture a wight is stupid. It is a grea plan. I want to understand the point of Cersei being pregnant again after all those years. So she can control Jamie? Or because it will give Lena some meaty material when she miscarriages? Or...? I understand that with all those battles and WWs and dragons the money was short, but these 7 episodes seem very rushed in many aspects. And the folks at TV Guide can fuck themselves. Dany loved Drogo, but he raped her, and that will never be epic. And while Ygritte and Jon loved each other and it was kind of epic, so what? People fall in love more than once in their lives {{insert my own epic eye roll here}}.

I can see it now, This is D&D's idea of foreplay. Bran's lines sounds really creepy. Is LF selling some kind of leadership workshop? Oh, Olenna, you will be missed. IIRC, Jamie taunted Ned telling him how it was in the room when Aerys killed Brandon and Rickard, the people watching and all, but I'm pretty sure the only thing Jamie said is that Aerys burned Rickard.

Not sure you were trying to quote me and it went wrong, but you've said this and my reply is the same: Dany kicked Daario to curb saying that once she was Queen of Westeros she herself would need marry in order to make alliances, alliances she would need to rule. What makes you think that, if needed, she wouldn't make Sansa marry someone in order to establish new bonds/ties betweens the house? And of course any woman understand better than a man what Sansa went through.

Like I said in a post prior to the one you are replying, Jon (and Bran) would never force Sansa to marry against her will, IMO. What I pointed to @GrailKing is that he is the king and the ruler or House Stark. If he wanted, he could arrange a marriage for her, the same way he could reffuse. Sansa's free will goes as far as Cersei, Myrcella, Dany, Catelyn´s. Says who? Dany kicked Daario to curb saying that once she was Queen of Westeros she herself would need marry in order to make alliances, alliances she would need to rule. What makes you think that, if needed, she wouldn't make Sansa marry someone in order to establish new bonds/ties betweens the house? And of course any woman understand better than a man what Sansa went through. I think they believe in the dragons in the same theoretical way they believe they WW. Some thoughts on the episode: I really really really enjoyed Arya's scenes. Maisie did a fantastic job with wasn't exactly first class material and she delivered it: from her casual way to greet Hot Pie, the way her face changed when she heard Jon won BoB, was KITN and Winterfeel was free of the Boltons, and then being scared when the wolves came and, of course, seeing Nymeria. I also enjoyed a lot the scene with the Lords in Winterfell. Sansa didn't sound like a petulant brat, but genuinely concerned about the Targaryen threat and Jon's safety, and I'm crediting this way more to Sophie's acting than the writing, which, again, is not stellar. One of the hardest things to convey, IMO, is suprise, and she nailed it when Jon told Sansa she was going to be in charge while he is way. Idon't think Kit is a particularly strong actor, but he sells Jon really really well. When Lyanna said "Winter is here, your Grace", and he turned, and looked at her, just right before he started his "I never wanted to be king" little speech, it was evident how weary he feels, with the weight of the the world on his shoulders, and that continued until his last word. Overall, and it is worth saying since we had this kind of scene two weeks in a row, this time they managed to achieve a better tone. Like they smoothed out the rough edges. Even Lyanna was better. Euron is insane, and I can't decide if it is the good kind of insane or the bad one. We sure he is not on steroids? The battle scenes were awesome, and after reading 8 pages of people with way more understanding about naval battles and Westeros geography than me, I'm going to accept that Yara couldn't have seen Euron coming or that nobody would have seen his ships. It is not like they have radars, right? I feel bad for Yara, but Ellaria can die. I hope they don't drag her death for long. Except for Oberyn and the little we saw of Doran, what a waste of time Dorne turned out to be. Alife Allen is a stupendous actor. Theon is pathetic, has always been pathetic - with a couple of good moments here and there. He would never save Yara, even if he could - and he did not. I was sure he would bol.t But Alfie deserves all the awards and praises for making us understand that. Olenna and Ellaria are two hypocrites. Blah blah blah the Lannisters are evil, blah blah blah. One killed her own kin and an innocent girl, the other killed Joffrey and framed Tyrion and Sansa without thinking twice. You know what that meeting needed? A good verbal figthing/smackdown like some in families during Thanksgiving and Christmas. Loved the Misandei and GW scene. All the technical details aside, it is nice to see the show giving them their own story other than being part of Dany's story. It is nice that they love more than her - not sure if I'm explaining this right. That Varys/Dany scene should have been done last season. Honestly, this scene was sort of flat for me. I didn't enjoy Peter or Emilia's acting, and I liked onçy part of Conleth Hill's delivery of his lines. I thought I was going to hate Sam/Jorah's scene, but I loved them. When Sam talked about Jeor Mormont and how he was there when he died, did you notice the small in Ian Glein's face? Does Jorah know his father is dead? But let me ask something. Shouldn't Jorah have passed from shock? He was skinned alive.

I don't think you are understading what I'm saying. Sansa is Jon's subject now, since he is KITN and the ruler of the Stark House. If he wanted to marry her into another House, say with the Manderly or Glover's heir, he 'could'. If, say, Dany gets the IT and ends ruling the North too, she could decide who Sansa marries and it wouldn't make a difference if she opposes it. Sansa doesn't have all the free will you think she does in some matters, just like Dany didn't, or Cersei when she married Robert or even Sansa himself when she wanted to marry Joffrey.

Maybe it is a collective 'shit just got real' moment.

Last week Jon did listen to Sansa when she said what she thought was the correct punishment for the Karstarks and Numbers. He didn't agree with her AND some of the Northern Lords, and did something she AND some of the Northern Lords didn't want. He listened when she told him about Cersei, but his priorioty is - and will always be - the war against the WWs. This week Jon again listened to Sansa AND Lyanna AND the Northern Lords, who were all agaisnt Jon heading South. He made his mind, explained his thinking process and went to meet Dany, while putting Sansa in charge. Honestly, you don't want Jon to listen to Sansa, you want Jon to do what Sansa wants. Assuming we'll ever get that point - Sansa getting married - the final say is hers alone only if she is not someone's subject. Jon or Bran would never want to force Sansa to marry someone, but say Dany sits on the Iron Throne and decide to unite House by marriage, neither Jon or Bran would have a real say on this. Least of all, Sansa. I don't think it was about Jon, but Dany herself: why do you want to be queen other than being the 'rightful' heir? Varys' point is that he wants a king or queen who rules for the people. It was, IMO, more about the whole 'Dany is a conquer, not a ruler' than anything else. When you get throne, what are you going to do with it? There is a scene in season 1 where Cersei asks Robert how Lyanna looked like - or something like that - and he says 'I don't remember her face, I just know she was the only thing I've ever wanted in my life'. I'm firm on the camp that Robert never wanted to rule, he wanted a) to avenge Lyanna's being 'kidnapped' by Rhaegar and her death, b) kill Rhaegar himself, c) end Aerys - all those things were tied, as we, because he himself said it, seven kingdoms couldn't fill the void of Lyanna's loss, blah blah. When in season 1 Robert asked Ned why he didn't seize the throne back then, for me it was clear that for a nanosecond he wishing Ned had been the ruling. Never mind conveniently forgetting that Ellaria killed her Prince and his heir in her quest to revenge a death that was not the Lannisters' fault. And, as always, it would have been so easy to fix it, all they needed was for Ellaria's revenge be also about Elia Martell and her kids. 'We are avenging Dorne, we are avenging every Martell who has suffered in the Lannisters' hands'. Not only that but the Dothraki reputation is a real thing, remember Robert talking to Cersei about them? They are probably what Westeros' parents tell their children 'behave or the Dothraki will come'. It has been YEARS since Arya had someone to teach her manners. Plust, she was starving. You kidding? Her death and Vorenus/Kevin Mckidd heartbreak over it was one of the best scenes in 'Rome'. Awww.

Ah, thank you. I was wondering if I had just missed it or it was something D&D just came up to justify Dany and Mel sort of bonding. And in that Mel/Dany/Tyrion/Varys, something that bothered me was when Tyrion said that the Lannisters executed Ned and conspired to kill Robb, so Jon had even more reason to hate Cersei than Dany. That was so bizarre and poorly-written, because aside the the fact Cersei is currently the one sitting on the Iron Throne, what reasons Dany has for hating Cersei herself? Couldn't he have just said something like "He has more reasons to want the Lannisters defeated than you"? See, the writing is driving me mad this season and we are only two episodes in.

Oh, please, they can fuck themselves with that bullshit. That is not being feminist or whatever the fuck they think they are doing. What they did to Dorne was awful and no scene in a War Council will make up for that. And Tyrion's plan is not bad, different than Olenna and Ellaria (looling for revenge) and Danaerys (wants to sit in the IT at all costs), Tyrion knows Were you surpriseed? Because Varys has been standing next to Dany for several episodes but apaprently she has never asked him to bend the knee. Dragonstone is strategic yet none on since Stannis cared to secure the place. Danaerys has been planning her invasion for what, six seasons, Tyrion and Varys has been with her all that time and she still didn't have a plan. None of them knows Jon is KITN? The writing is bad and nothing makes sense. But I'm here to know how it ends. Sigh. I'm sory but the is no reason at all for LF still be alive. All the excuses - the Valle troops, he is a guest at Winrfell, etc - are poor excuses. What was once an interesting character has no purpose at all anymore, except that create that pseudo-phychological whatever game with Sansa. I disagree; Dany doesn't want it, and Jon doesn't want it either. Dany wants the IT and she doesn't - apparently - wants to kill innocent people; Jon doesn't even wanted to be Lord Commander, never mind king. They care about people because they are people, while Cersei doesn't care about anything. But that would demand a scene displaying how 90% of the people on screen are full of shit, right? ETA: Someone help me here, did we know that Mel was once a slave? Because I didn't remember it and was trully surprised by the scene with Dany.

I didn't say she is twisted but that she has been up to some twisted stuff. There isa difference. I've read this theory before, and I'm inclined to think that if this is correct, Sam is the best candidate. Gosh, this is ridiculous. Jon should have chocked LF and buried his body or feed him to Ramsay's dogs wherever they are.

I don't think the three heads were mentioned on screen were they? Mel talked about Azor Ahai twice or three - or the Prince Who Was Promised if you believe they are different people. But I agree I will be a hpapy camper if they are never mentioned again. I'm curious too, as how they, I dunno? Chain? Box? Cuff? a wight. If all those spoilers correct, Sansa's reaction to Arya may be coming from what she learns about her sister and not from their old problems. I love Arya, but she has been up to some twisted stuff. Sansa being appalled at first learning all that may put what Arya has done and has become in perspective, specially since she is a fan and media favorite who 'can do no wrong', while Sansa, Dany and Jon always get the short end of the stick.

Im sure they are way more elegant than anything D&D will come up with. :)

See, I totally 1345% agree with you, but that was not on screen. Normal people don't bang their aunt/nephew, LOL. But the wight hunt is not for Dany, neither the goal is to spy to the WWs. The wight hunt is about taking one of them to Cersei, so she will believe these creatures are real. And I don't think the idea that the Lannisters would send their soldiers seems proposterous. Per spoilers, we know that Jamie is all for it and appalled when Cersei betrays Dany and Jon. And we know Tyrion is all for it, so when you say Lannisters you mean Cersei, and I'll mantain that she is fucking stupid by not joining forces. I wasn't surprised at all about the spoilers about Viserion dying. I've always thought that they would 'kill' one of dragons to make the whole thing a bit more balanced - with three dragons, Danaerys is almost invencible. Travelling in Westeros is better than my 2017 commute for work. I must be stupid or too tired after work, but I'm not really sure why Jon asks for Dany and why she goes. The best part of those spoilers for me is the Sansa X Arya part. I'm looking forward to Sansa finding Arya's faces. As viewers, we so are used to that, but in reality it is a horrendous thing. Sounds like good stuff.

Where is this from? This will never happen, not because Dany isn't capable of that, but because D&D's mind set is that this would be downplaying Dany's girl!power! No happening either, Dany's main priority will be the fact she is not the last Tagaryen and that there is someone else who may claim the throne. We don't know the status of whatever Dany/Jon are going to be, and that may be a big part of that, too. However, yes, I would love to Jon or anyone else, him or Arya,, to defend the man Ned was, flaws and all. Actually, what I would like is that other characters were allowed to have the same sort of speech: be allowed to list how crap their lives were while presenting themselves and their believes. Sansa, Tyrion, Jon, Arya, fuck even Gilly. I don't mind Dany's speech, this is how she sees it and it is a HUGE step in the GoT universe (books and show) to acknowledge that Dany was raped by Drogo. But they can't have their cake and eat it, because Dany fell in love with Drogo. It was on screen. But D&D seem to be conveniently 'rewriting' history as long as it suits them, so I'm sure it won't be mentioned. And just to be clear, yes I don't think Dany/Drogo was cute, like many did, but George's bizarre view on love and relationships.

Back then nobody knew it had changed. People didn't know he wasn't Robert's son. Even now, how many people are trully sure of that? But I agree, none of that matters. The throne 'belongs' to whoever can keep it, like Robert did. Dany has the army and the dragons, Jon didn't want to be Lord Commander, never mind king of Westeros. We don't even know if he will ever learn he is a Targaryen, though I'm sure that if and when that happens either it will spectacular, like burning a lot of stuff out of nowhere, or finding some letter in a quiet scene.