weathered1

I actually wouldn't be surprised if that's part of Stephen's, um, malaise (there's a good word) that we see relatively often on the show. I think the writers/producers may tell him about general story arcs they have planned. He gets excited about some things, maybe offers some suggestions. When it comes time to film the stories, though, the execution of them leaves a lot to be desired, and tends to make Oliver look bad. In short, regardless of what he said about "protecting" his character, I think he's noticeably sick of having Oliver constantly regress and/or be inexplicably self-destructive and/or be mind-bogglingly stupid. I think that's why he's so clearly checked out in certain scenes, e.g., every. single. time. Oliver's with Susan, etc.

If she winds up exposing anyone, I feel like the odds are good it would probably be Felicity (with Thea as a longshot, maybe). And it would happen after she reveals to Oliver that she knows he's GA, but just can't publish the story because of her precious, precious feelings for him. Then things go south in some way, she feels jilted and/or starts to be manipulated by Prometheus, and goes after someone close to Oliver. That way, she really was "good" and Oliver wasn't a moron to trust her (yes, he was); she was just pushed into being bad/shady. It's awful, but I can see it happening.

Yep. Every bit of that is dead on, I think. To be honest, though, I wonder if they really have changed their minds. I know they say she's "good" and theories about her are wrong, but . . . then they show her still investigating Oliver after she's slept with him. They are telling us she's good; they're showing us - and have been since day one - that she's not. Makes me wonder if they're denying the fan theories are true because, in fact, they are and they're trying to throw everyone off so that later on the "twist" is that everyone was right about all her along. However, if the end of this is that she's a crappy reporter with a heart of gold, I wouldn't be at all surprised if part of the reason was to make Thea look bad enough that she feels compelled to take off.

^^ That's what I was (trying) to say: she sticks around to serve her actual purpose (whatever the hell that's supposed to be), but the farce of a "relationship" comes to an end much sooner than that.

That's what I was thinking - if it becomes clear that Oliver is about to be outed, then they make the decision that the team should temporarily go their separate ways (or at least appear to) so that the others can't be tied to Oliver and the things he's done as GA. I also agree that this is another title that refers to more than just the group, so we'll probably see separations and breaks when it comes to other storylines. As far as the world's worst reporter goes, I'm another one who doesn't think she's going to stick around in the LI capacity until the end of the season. I think there will be a "break up" (which is ridiculous, because what a lame, atrocious "relationship" this is) and then her real purpose becomes clear. I'm still not sure that I buy that the wrist tattoo was just a bad cover-up. For one, that would be one of the worst tattoo cover ups I've ever seen. For another, the director purposely zoomed in on it and held the shot there long enough for everyone to see it. IDK, maybe it doesn't mean anything *now,* but I 100% believe that it was meant to at the time.

Makes me think that part of her purpose is to serve as a contrast to the next romantic storyline (whatever and with whomever it may be): Hey, you guys hated Susan and that relationship. This one isn't nearly as bad!

re: the first question: I don't think so. I loathe WD almost as much as the reporter, and as it happens, the actor is another one I've never liked. In anything. re: the second part: therein lies the rub. I'm not sure they think there's anything that needs to be fixed. Yes, ratings are down and the social media activity is not what it used to be, but they're still getting buzz and the show still got renewed. They really seem to be digging in their heels regarding things that a majority of viewers simply do not like and to which they/we have not responded well at all: WD, Susan, etc. etc. It's almost like the more people share their dislike of those things, the longer they're dragged out and the more attention they get. They don't seem to be writing the show for the viewers and fans anymore, which is . . . an odd way to do business. They're pushing their agenda (and/or possibly the agenda of people higher up on the food chain), and that's all that seems to matter to them.

That's a really good possible explanation of why there's been so much focus on the noobs and very little on Oliver's interactions with the people who know him best. HT could be a victim of Prometheus' manipulations or blackmail or something. When would the switch have occurred . . . that's the main sticking point, I think, because I feel like some things Oliver had to be there for, i.e., all of the BC stuff, etc. I wonder if it's at all possible - and I'm certainly not saying it is - that HT and Oliver worked something out, that HT would take his place at certain times, in certain situations for . . . I don't know, reasons. Does it make sense? Not really. Has that ever stopped this show before? Nope.

Personally, I didn't hate Ray this much. In this case, I loathe the reporter for many reasons: I've never warmed up to Carly Pope as an actress (she always comes off as smug and snide to me); the insistence by the show's powers that be that Susan isn't shady while they simultaneously persist in showing us that, yeah, she really is; the sheer amount of damage the "relationship" Oliver has with her creates. It's all so very pointless and stupid, and regardless of whatever resolution it has, it cannot and will not come even close to fixing what it has negatively impacted. I also feel like this role and story were changed - likely a lot - from what was originally intended. That it's being dragged out to this extent is both infuriating (to me, anyway), perverse (there's that word again), and reads to me like they're using it so they can draw something else out - something of a romantic nature with either of the pairings (or possible pairings) in question, a possible exit for Thea, to set up a twist that they didn't have in mind at the outset, or some combination of those things. re: why, if HT has taken Oliver's place, other characters haven't noticed - I think that could just be explained away by the writers not wanting to have overt clues that something is amiss. If the characters started openly giving dumbass, podOliver the side eye, then the audience would be clued into the fact that something was off, which lessens the impact of the twist (if it exists).

I've never been a Hilarie Burton fan, but I don't mind her in this role. What I tend to have something of an issue with is how the role is written. In this episode, Palmer seemed ineffectual and powerless, unaware of her surroundings, didn't contribute anything, was largely a non-entity on the professional front, and was constantly set up to be the damsel in distress and to make comments re: the date that never was, how she always knew Riggs would be in bed with her, etc. The comments from other characters re: their chemistry, etc., etc., were too ham-handed for me. If the chemistry is there and if it's that blatantly obvious, it shouldn't require numerous comments from the peanut gallery. The kiss was, well, it happened. I think this is another downside of the episodes being shown out of order: it was pretty recent that Riggs went into an extreme downward spiral of guilt re: betraying Miranda with his one night stand, yet now he's at a place where he can kiss Palmer? It didn't quite ring true for me. All things being equal, all I can say is that Palmer is no Lorna. However, I do understand the necessity of the storyline. In all other ways, I think the show is really hitting its stride, in terms of the characterizations, interactions, and how it blends drama/suspense/humor/action. Random thoughts: Riggs' hair hadn't bothered me in past episodes. It did in this one: it's officially a distraction - he had to push it back so many times. Time to get a haircut. I really like Trish. Thomas Lennon is now my favorite Leo Getz. He needs to be a permanent fixture on this show.

^^ The next best option would be the ever popular: it was all a dream. (Or, you know, a nightmare.)

I've actually been hoping for quite awhile that all of Oliver's extraordinarily stupid behavior could be explained by HT having taken his place. Prometheus wanting Oliver to suffer could certainly be accomplished by a captive Oliver having to watch helplessly as HT did all of these things that so many of us have decried as being monumentally dumb, self-defeating, and that have pretty much erased all of the mental and emotional maturation he should have - and was supposed to have - achieved since the island. If I were in the mood to give SA any credit, I'd also say that that could explain why he's played Oliver as being so robotic and checked out for great swaths of this season. re: the scars and how in the hell HT would know so much about Oliver's life and past - I think those are logical questions, and as such, they're questions the writers would totally gloss over in favor of a "gotcha" twist. I also agree that they wouldn't have introduced HT without a reason, so . . . I'm not getting my hopes up, but it would be a genuine twist that could fix some of the huge amounts of damage the writers have caused this season. FWIW, it would also lend itself to the flashforward idea, as they could skip over parts of Oliver playing catch up with his life, etc. etc. It might also fit with the spec that perhaps Susan winds up exposing another member of the team, not Oliver himself, all of which would be the product of Prometheus and HT's manipulation.

Agreed. I think for them, flashbacks or flashforwards serve a few different purposes: they pull a plot or plots out of thin air, think they're clever, and then use the time the flashes buy them in order to figure out how to get from point A to point Z in as unsatisfying and poorly conceived a way as possible, while changing things on a whim and all the while patting themselves on the back for their "cool twists." I just don't think they're willing to abandon that storytelling device, regardless of what they said earlier this season. It's their comfort zone, and as bad as they are at them (much of the time), I think they'd be even worse at attempting to tell straightforward, well-plotted stories without the use of what has become a crutch for them.

I can really see that coming to fruition, especially if the renewal was part of a larger/longer deal than we know (which would also explain why they don't seem to be caring about the ratings right now). Even if it's not, I think they're enamored of those flashbacks and that method of "storytelling," regardless of how successfully (or not) they carry them out. I can see the next to last act of the season finale showing the team in a somewhat stable place, regardless of what that looks like, or conversely, everything and everyone in some sort of turmoil. The last segment/scene would be at some future point where the circumstances have totally changed for everyone. Then they could say that when they said the flashbacks would end this year, they just meant the original five years worth of flashbacks would be over, just in time to start a brand new set. Sigh. That could also set the stage for either (or both) of the romantic storylines we've been talking about.

The further into this season we go, the more it becomes clear that trying to make sense or predict anything is an exercise in futility. After all, they have us spinning our wheels trying desperately to make sense of the reporter garbage simply by the virtue of the fact that the entire storyline (and character) is utterly devoid of point and purpose. These writers (and showrunners/producers) are staggeringly perverse and seem to be bent on furthering on some kind of agenda, the likes of which don't even come close to making sense to any rational person. Do I think an Olicity hookup or reunion is entirely out of the cards this season? No, because again, these writers seem to pull ideas out of . . . wherever, and those ideas show up onscreen, regardless of whether there's been a decent set up, if it's good for the characters, flies in the face of show canon, fits in with the present circumstances, is a good idea in general, etc. Do I think they're not going to at least attempt something with Oliver/Dinah? No. They brought her on, gave her the name, will give her the official code name, have her bonding with the team, and have shown a certain kind of dynamic between her and Oliver (the dynamic is debatable, depending on one's POV, of course, but they have talked up the "connection" between them, etc. etc.). I don't think they'd do all of that without trying a little something. Would it last? Who knows. But this is their last chance to get the Black Canary right; it follows that this is their last chance to capitalize on the GA/BC thing because of the comics aspect of it all. That may even be the reason why - or at least one of the reasons why - they've downplayed Olicity's history so much this season. I tend to view the Olicity scenes and crumbs we've seen as them keeping things at a (very low) simmer instead of totally closing the book on them. They needed to have them still kinda, sorta in play while they went "all in" with the ridiculous reporter crap, and I truly do think they're waiting to see what happens when they test the waters with another relationship before they decide, once and for all, what they want to do (or feel they have to do) with Olicity. I don't think that's fear speculation. I think it comes from dealing with the group of people in charge of the show for 5 seasons now and getting some insight into how they seem to think (*if* they think, at all, that is). So, yeah, I could easily see a "surprise" Olicity hookup, but if that happens, I could also see her pulling back again and that pushing Oliver away, making him officially (at least for now) give up, which is something I don't think he's done, as per what we've seen. OTOH, I could also see part of the reporter's purpose (if there is one) be to drag things out in order to give Oliver time to get to know and bond with the new team member. When things go south with the reporter, maybe he decides he can't be with a "civilian" given the life he leads, maybe there's some kind of moment with him and Dinah, and the season ends with that kind of tease for season 6. Either or both stories could go anywhere - literally anywhere - because these writers are not bound by canon, logic, or an understanding of human nature.

^^ I have to reiterate that I would *really* hate it - like flames, flames on the side of my face hate it - if they use the freakin' reporter as an excuse to write Thea off permanently or even if it's just for x amount of episodes (assuming Willa still has a job next season and the episode count remains at 14). I've even had the thought that Thea - in full Moira mode - does something to make the reporter feel like Oliver betrayed her, instead of the other way around, only for it to be revealed that, oh no, the reporter was really a good person because of her precious feelings for Oliver, and Thea attacked her maliciously, thereby costing Oliver his oh so "serious," "all in" relationship. I can see it now: reporter collects info but decides not to use it. Comes clean about her plan and then her all important feelings. Says she can't publish anything that would hurt him. Thea secretly records the convo, which reveals that the reporter has zero credibility or journalistic ethics and sends said recording to the publisher. Publisher confronts and fires the reporter. Reporter, thinking Oliver is the only one knew the truth, lashes out at him, ends the "all in" relationship, and leaves town to find work elsewhere. Oliver realizes someone recorded the convo, eventually puts 2 and 2 together (which is about all the math his poor little brain can handle), says nasty things to his sister. And a guilt-stricken Thea leaves the city, while poor, poor Oliver - who wasn't wrong to trust the reporter, after all! - is sad and alone. If anything even remotely resembling that happens . . . gag me with a spork. I've just run out of words to describe how much I absolutely loathe the reporter and the entire ridiculously asinine story.

I wonder - and I hate that I wonder this, because I think Willa has done some good work with the role, which is not something I ever thought I'd say when the show first started - if they have Thea go all Moira when it comes to Susan, if it winds up not only making Oliver look good (though it really, really won't), but if it impacts their sibling bond so much that she ends up leaving town or something. They do need to streamline the cast, and that might be one way they go about it. I'd really and truly hate that, though. Unfortunately, I wouldn't put it past them.

I wonder if it's not that she betrays Oliver, per se, but that she winds up exposing or otherwise hurting someone else on the team. It would be splitting hairs, but that seems right up their alley.

I think that's where it's headed. I think it originally was not going to go that way, but it is now. What's weird about the whole thing is that they are *showing* us that she's still shady and acting ways that are suspect, to say the least. Meanwhile, they are telling us that we're not seeing what they're deliberately making sure we see. To which I say . . . WinTactualF? The next problem (and there are sooooo many of them) is how and when are they getting rid of her.

^^ Agreed. Interesting that on one hand, they're taking pains to justify/excuse his behavior. OTOH, they're making him so thoroughly dumb and unlikable.

^^The writers don't have a clue where she goes from there either. I think the purposeful bad writing is across the board. Why, I don't know, but it's not an accident that writing this atrocious is negatively impacting just about every character, story, etc.

^Seriously. It's been a long time - if ever - since I've seen writers this shockingly inept. Part of me thinks that almost has to be purposeful.

That was my thought, too. I truly do think they'll bring in Lorna at the appropriate time, but they need to have that Rika-esque relationship first in order to help Riggs get over some of his issues. I think Karen Palmer fulfills that role - she'll help him see that he can move on and have feelings for another woman, which opens the door for that slow build with Lorna to begin. At some point.

It's like every time we say they can't possibly produce a worse and/or dumber episode, they go all out to prove us wrong. So in one episode, they continue to push pointless Susan and the ridiculous - yet "all in" - relationship with the lead character. They make said lead possibly the dumbest character on television (or at least in the top 5) and have him choose the ridiculous LI over his own sister. They give far too much focus to a very much disliked new character . . . only for that focus to make him look even worse. In an episode about guns, they blatantly ignore the repercussions gun violence had on a member of the team(!!). And all of that was peppered liberally with clunky, asinine dialogue, out of character actions, phoned in "acting," and a "storyline" that was mostly devoid of sense. It's times like this when I find myself wondering if they're actively trying to tank this show for some reason.

Reading all of the excellent comments about this episode, I have to say that I'm genuinely surprised about something: My expectations were very low. Evidently, they weren't nearly low enough when it comes to the dumbness and ham-handedness. I mean, they really had to *work* to make an episode this bad.