KAOS Agent

Espenson is generally less terrible with the Woegina stuff. And she actually manages to get character moments into the plot, plot, plot crap, so I'm somewhat optimistic. I could see 4.02 being a Rumpel-centric given that he seems to be linked to the Frozen plot way more than Regina. With a title like "White Out" and the 11 million episodes the Frozen characters are scheduled for, I'm more on the side of this being a Rumpel/Frozen ep like "Witch Hunt" was a Regina/Zelena ep. Also, going back a bit, can I just say Team Marian! I can only hope that she really does call Regina a monster and points out to Snow & Emma that she just watched Regina grin gleefully while watching Snow burn at the stake. At least somebody should show some distress about that execution.

Yeah, I never really believe anything Adam & Eddy say when they're like we planned this from the beginning, so I totally think this episode was meant to set up both Neal & Hook as potential romantic partners for Emma without understanding that they destroyed the idea of Neal/Emma to many viewers right here. Honestly, I sometimes wonder if they weren't more excited to have the mysterious "what's in the box?" thing going than actually considering how badly their Neal/August set an underage girl up to go to jail for no discernible reason plot line was going to come off. It didn't help that Neal looked like a scuzzy middle age drifter scamming on a homeless, lonely 17 year old. What exactly was August's plan when he told Neal to ditch Emma and send her to jail? Do you know what the recidivism rate is? She's so much more likely to be a career criminal than scared straight. And then he just takes off with the money and doesn't think of her until his leg starts turning to wood years later. So um what? Maybe the plan was to keep her in jail so he could live his life without ever worrying about having to deal with how much he sucked. Nice to know how much he cared about his father in all this. It's interesting to go back and watch "The Stranger" after this because August just gets so angry at her for not wanting to believe and being so deep in denial. And now we know that Pinocchio made her that way and just how badly he screwed her over. Karma's a bitch, August. You deserve to be a wooden man forever. I think JMo looked far younger and more fragile when in the jail with her pregnancy test than she ever did in her scenes with Neal. I'm surprised they didn't go with that look for her "younger" self. Maybe it was that she looked so soft and they needed her to have a harder edge as a teen runaway? When Hook is climbing the beanstalk, Colin is using his hand to hang on through his shirt with the hook just sort of hanging off to the side. I think this may be one of those I've only got one hand moments where the writers fail to recognize that climbing something (and staying in one place while carrying on a conversation) is not something that's easy to do with a hook for a hand. Especially since Colin had little experience wearing the hook at this point.

I think we weren't allowed to see too much of Emma & Henry's life in NYC because we'd have seen that it was better for them. No one was actively out to kill them, they had down time for fun and Henry didn't feel all depressed and alone. I find it shameful that the show had Henry give up New York without a passing thought. I know he was happy to find his family and hanging with them would be cool for a couple weeks, but he was not happy in Storybrooke. He didn't have any friends and was lonely. In New York, he fit in because he was a normal boy in a normal world and had tons of friends. Regina was even pleased to hear this when she asked. And it's telling that she asked if he had friends because she knew that he was a lonely little boy in Storybrooke. A pre-teen would miss his friends. He'd be texting them all the time and be sad that he's missing out when they're doing something cool. And despite its magic, Storybrooke is really lame compared to all the things there are to do in a big city. He doesn't even have his Xbox there. I know that there are people who want Henry to have epic adventures with his family (no, I'm not one of them), but this cannot happen because when school is in session, Jared can only be filming for five hours a day. That includes make-up, wardrobe, rehearsal, etc. He cannot be a part of a major story arc where he can't be shuffled off doing something elsewhere because he's only available by law for a limited filming schedule. It's why he was on his own in Neverland. Having him separate from the main cast allowed them to do whatever without having to deal with Henry.

No, Season 3B was Adam & Eddy wanting epic Regina fan fiction fantasies to become canon. I will say that I enjoyed New York City Serenade, Witch Hunt and even The Tower. The latter mostly for its David remembers Emma in the Enchanted Forest moments, the Rapunzel stuff and Snow being an absolute idiot with midwife and new BFF Zelena not so much. After that things went downhill fast. There are very few scenes up until the finale that I would ever even consider rewatching. I hated the time travel idea in general, but I deal with it in the finale because I loved watching Emma shine, so I try not to analyze and just enjoy the fun. This show was billed as Emma's fairy tale and it was about damn time she got a fairy tale princess adventure. After an entire half season of wasted potential with new characters, new lands and new mythology not being explored at all in depth and instead a lot of muhahaha-ing from a whiny villain, the finale was a nice palate cleanser. One can only hope that with ABC being more invested in them not screwing up the Frozen aspect of the show, that next season will be more tightly plotted with less wtf-ery.

U is for Urn, the one he kept with Elsa in it

I actually don't think Henry wanted Emma to be his mother. To him, Emma was a means to this epic adventure of fairy tales come to life as the final battle between good & evil would begin with her arrival in Storybrooke. Henry was depressed and lonely and looking for some excitement. He wasn't looking for a mother, he was looking for someone to prove his crazy theory about a curse to be true. Emma & Henry didn't even "connect" until after Emma was already in town. That it turned out well for their relationship does not negate the fact that Henry only went after Emma because she was the Saviour and he needed the Saviour to break the curse.

Having Hook & Emma go back and tell their past selves to do something is a bit like Bill & Ted going back in the past after their original adventure and telling themselves to do things - Like wind his watch and hide the keys and the tape recorder in the police station and the garbage can. I hated the idea of that because what happens if they mess that up? Do they go back again and try to fix that? I always found it unbelievable that it would work out the way it did. Not that Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure is my go to in terms of evaluating how not to screw up the past, but I never get on board with future people going in to the past and telling themselves not to do something. Not to mention, Emma & Hook are in Storybrooke. Who's to say these aren't shapeshifting villains pretending to be them so they don't stop the villains' plans? The whole time travel issue is a paradox, but since that's what we're stuck with I think having Emma try to fix it was a better idea than Rumpel trying to do it. The man is off his rocker, has little time for the failings of humans and emotions most especially True Love and did not have the book to guide him with what was supposed to happen. Plus, he's prone to meddling when he should not be meddling. Even Hook, who knew the general story including about how the Troll Bridge was the inciting love incident, got worried when Snow & Charming went their separate ways. Emma was really the only one who knew enough to know when things were on the right track and I'm not sure if she could have given enough details to make sure Rumpel got those two in the right place and let them do their thing without interference.

Emma takes the brunt of anger from a bunch of different fandoms. I think it's because she's the real world character they use to ground the story, so people are able to associate themselves with her and place their beliefs on how they would react on Emma without actually examining the idea that Emma is not them and not a "normal" person and is in fact very damaged and reacts accordingly. Thus, it becomes a constant barrage of "That bitch!" whenever Emma does something that's completely in character that hurts a particular rabid fandom's woobie. (Let me be clear, I am applying this to the very vocal, very rabid sections of OUAT fandom). To use a not so controversial example of this reaction, let's take Emma and Snowing. We know Emma was a little girl who just wanted a home and parents and never got that. Now she's got Snow White & Prince Charming. How awesome is that?! Emma should be doing cartwheels and giving hugs and kisses! Her mommy and daddy love her so much! But wait. Emma is not reacting that way. That bitch! Why isn't she happy about it? Can't she see that she's gotten everything she ever wanted? How dare she treat Snow & David that way! She needs to just get over herself. It's all her fault that relationship isn't working well. Yes, I'm exaggerating a bit here, but this is often the reaction Emma gets about all of her relationships (and given the way Emma ended the finale, seemingly how the writers see Emma & her parents as well). There is rarely an analysis that this is exactly how a person with Emma's background would react and that her issues make sense. She isn't trying to hurt another person, she's trying to protect herself and certain actions by other characters that reinforce her issues are only going to cause her to dig in deeper. Unfortunately, people project onto Emma because she is not a fairy tale character. There is even some truth in the idea that Emma doesn't get too much backstory because she needs to be less defined so as to make her as accessible as possible for viewer association. But viewer projections are almost always what that individual wants. If you're a Swan Queener, Emma's a bitch for treating Regina badly, Hook fans get upset when Emma says something that hurts him and won't just admit her undying love, Neal fans don't understand why Emma can't just kiss and make up with him. It's almost always about the other character not getting what they want. It's never about Emma getting what she wants and deserves. Or recognizing that the other people in her life might need to work to help her build a healthy and equal relationship with them. Emma takes the blame when she does something "wrong" but rarely gets any recognition when she does something "right" (see: saving Marian & reuniting a family vs putting up a roadblock to Outlaw Queen).

A more plausible reaction from Regina if she discovers the fake dagger/Zelena murder would be to use it to her advantage. This is assuming she finds out before anyone else. Regina would just love to have that little tidbit to lord over Rumpel. She wouldn't screw it up by going ballistic over the death of a woman she said she would kill herself if she didn't do exactly as Regina said. I would so desperately enjoy having the diabolical Mayor Mills come out and play. And since it's Regina v Rumpel, I don't have any moral issues with the two of them going all out. Let the best villain win! Season 1 Regina and Rumpel were excellent working with/against each other, so I'd love it if we could return to that rather than this silly "we're family" allies crap they've had going on since then (Shut up, Henry).

V is for the Verdant Greenery that abounds in Neverland

O is for Operation Henry or Operation Cobra Rescue

David is a new father. He doesn't have the time or energy to shave. That wig, though, I don't know. I sincerely hope whoever does the wig for this show takes better care of his than they do for Snow's rat's nest. Glad to see David in the fray though. I hope this means we'll get more Emma/David again this season. I agree on the cloaks. Regina must have mandated great cloaks for prisoners. Maybe it's bad form to have horrid fashion in her prisons? Both Marian's and Emma's are lovely colors and seem practical for regular use. And I am so hopeful that they can find another mod, if only to check this thread. It's so much fun to snark and come up with wildly terrible theories based on one picture (that sadly, often turn out to be correct), but felt bad about overwhelming the mod and have avoided posting anything in here the last couple days.

Honestly, if this show goes with Marian = Zelena, I'm out. There are so many plot holes in that that I just can't overlook it. Also, please God no more Zelena. Marian will most likely die, opening the way for Outlaw Queen to be the Truest Love That Ever Loved, bigger than Snowing even. It will be from the heart and soul. No one can top this epic love!

Didn't we go through the whole Hook pulls away thing when he had the cursed lips? Emo!Hook was thankfully limited, but during that time Emma did notice and express concern about Hook's lack of humor, his drinking, his withdrawal from the family dinner and then tried to playfully use her magic to cheer him up and tried to seriously discuss it with him. I'd actually rather the writers stay away from their contrived romantic angst because they are terrible at it, but I'm pretty sure the angst meter is going through the roof with Robin/Marian/Regina. It's more likely that Regina's tears of woe will be turned up to 11 and she'll get a frozen heart but everyone will think her actions are the result of her extreme sorrow over the loss of her boyfriend of four days, I mean, soul mate. All except Marian who will see through it all, decide that Regina is the bestest thing ever who totally deserves Robin and she will give an impassioned speech to Robin about how he belongs with Regina and she wants him to follow his heart. Robin will give a kiss of True Love and Regina will again get everything she wants. Then Lady Kluck will show up to yell, "Love conquers all!"

This is why I was so happy that they didn't go the True Love's Kiss route in the finale. I liked that Emma just decided to take a chance on a guy and open herself up to the idea of a relationship with Hook. In a lot of ways, I think the idea of her having a romantic True Love would freak Emma the hell out. As odd as it may sound, I think it would give Emma something else to worry about. A normal developing relationship with a storybook character would be stressful enough for her, but what happens if she screws up the True Love relationship? I also like the idea of these two people discovering more about each other and falling in love that way rather than it being pre-ordained and leaving me confused about what it is that they see in each other (I'm looking at you here, Outlaw Queen). If there's True Love involved immediately, there is no questioning, there's no need for proof, it just is. And it becomes a shortcut that skips all those fun moments that happen in a developing relationship. I don't even like the notion that Emma should somehow "prove" her love with some grand gesture to save Hook. I'd be so much happier if they continued with a slow route with those two getting to know each other better that eventually leads to Emma honestly and sincerely telling Hook that she loves him. No magical nonsense or curse breaking needed. Just two people who found each other and fell in love. That is a true love story.

Now that would be a fun motive for a future villain. Like Regina screwed up someone else's uber evil plans and now they're out to complete their plan, but also now after Regina for screwing it all up in the first place. At the very least it would be a better motive than Regina's mother's cousin's brother-in-law's uncle is jealous of her or whatever.

I will laugh so hard if this is a continuation of the finale. Henry will age in mere minutes - like it should have happened right in front of his family's eyes. I know Adam & Eddy are in denial about Jared's aging but hee! And yes, I am aware even a ten hour time jump isn't much, but this would be literally instantaneous. I do think it's important to remember that they film out of order, so Emma & Hook's chase of Elsa is most likely not directly following the family walk - and really, I hope Emma doesn't feel the need to be armed when out for a walk with Baby Snowflake. I also wonder if the loft has an elevator because hauling that stroller up and down three flights of stairs would seriously suck. Also, just say no to Adult!Pinocchio. Unless Emma gets to repeatedly kick him in the balls. Has the Eion Bailey sighting been confirmed as fact? Maybe he was just visiting the set like when Christopher Gorham was seen while they were filming the big showdown in It's Not Easy Being Green?

My wish is that the show stop showing events from the POV of the villain. The show likes to be all subversive and oh the villains have feelings too and there's two sides to every story, except they refuse to show the full perspective from other side because we can't feel bad for the villain when we see the absolute utter devastation they have wrought on their victims. We know what happened, but it's all tell and no show in terms of the consequences for the victims. Instead we get treated to an endless parade of tears and sad faces when whatever evil thing they've done doesn't go as well as they'd hoped or someone isn't grateful enough when they act like a decent human being.

He was in The Price of Gold, That Still Small Voice and Welcome to Storybrooke as well.

You know, I could make a lot out of these photos. Just a nice happy family outing then man steals Baby Snowflake as a distraction while drag queens invade Storybrooke looking to plunder Regina's wardrobe.

Is it wrong that I want to go to there, take pictures and start posting them with a bunch of made up stuff just so that I can mess with people?

Just to clarify the spoilers (I believe it came from TVline which is generally correct in its info), Elsa is scheduled for 10 eps and Anna for 6-8 with Kristoff for no less than 6. That being the case, Anna & Kristoff damn well better be in Storybrooke or this really will be Once Upon a Frozen. I don't care at all about these characters, and any more than three fairybacks that are Frozen oriented is too much. Also, how great is it that they're not filming in Neverland this year? Last summer, we got nothing because they were filming indoors on the jungle set and in the forest. This is so much better.

Those filming pictures make me feel so much better. Glad to know Emma & MM did not suddenly undergo some sort of weird fashion curse since the end of last season. I do question why anyone would wear a big black hat in the hot summer sun though. I commend them for protecting themselves from the sun, but light colors, people.

I believe Colin broke his leg when they were filiming "The Queen Is Dead". I think they said in an interview at Comic Con last year that Neal & Hook were supposed to film together the day after he broke it. I wish someone would leak that script because I'd love to know where they were going with the Hook/Neal relationship and whether Milah's murder and Rumpel's culpability were addressed during that conversation.

And this is where the story really falls down. Because if Milah could walk out on the marriage, get a divorce and be completely accepted in society, Milah running off with the pirate and abandoning Bae becomes an entirely selfish move - though it's still her right to do so. If she was in fact stuck in a marriage and would have been shunned, perhaps unable to even sell her woven goods or whatever, then running far away and being presumed dead does end up being the only way to escape from what was clearly a broken marriage. Still a dick move to abandon her son, but without real context about societal norms or even the depth of her depression or isolation, it's hard to adequately judge her. The Rumbelle present story was most upsetting in terms of red flags of abusive relationships. It sends all kinds of terrible messages to see a man murder his wife for leaving him juxtaposed with his interactions with his current girlfriend especially when it ends with her essentially being dependent on him for a job/housing and talking about going on a date with him. It was particularly icky because I kind of got the message we were supposed to feel bad for Rumpel instead of appalled at his actions both in the present and the past.