KAOS Agent

I think the point of that comment was meant to show us that Robin didn't see the Evil Queen when he looked at Regina. It's big wish fulfillment for Regina that someone do so and it was supposed to be quite romantic. That this was followed by Regina denying her evilness and playing it all off as the name serving her well by reputation not real action made it really quite gross. Denial of mass murder is not generally what I consider as something romantic or flirtatious. Prior to the Marian reveal, the thing I disliked most about Robin/Regina was that it completely ignored all of her past actions. It's great that she's turned a corner and is working to be a better person, but having a partner who understands your past, accepts that you've changed (or at least are trying) and helps on the path to betterment is the way the relationship needed to go. To have Robin act like he either didn't know jack about her past or just completely ignore it makes him look like a total idiot. And it's not particularly healthy for Regina either.

But in "The Outsider" Belle had already left Rumpel and was being this courageous person without him or even ever expecting to be with him again. So it's like living with him gave her the courage to stand up for herself, gain some self confidence and go out and kick some ass using her brains rather than brawn, but it doesn't seem like them being together as a couple is what makes her this way. Not if she remains that way or even grows stronger after the relationship is supposed to be over. They could break up tomorrow and I don't think she'd revert to who she was before whereas other True Love couples do seem to revert to a lesser version when broken up. It's funny because it's often said that Belle is Rumpel's leash and that's what makes him better, but Rumpel is still a villain while with Belle, he just does his misdeeds behind her back. However, outside of his heinous acts, being with her does seem to ground him. Look at how he calmed down from Crazy!Rumpel when they went to see him in his castle while caged by Zelena. Being with Belle helps him in ways that are not necessarily tied to his morality. I just don't see that with Belle because they have portrayed her as acting in this better version with or without him.

I have a question about Rumbelle and True Love. On this show, one of the biggest things about having True Love is that that person makes you the best person you can be. I'm curious as to how this applies to Belle. How does Rumpel make her a better person? To be clear, this is not meant to be taken as an attack on that relationship. I'm seriously asking how loving Rumpel has made Belle into the best version of herself.

I think the problem these writers have with Regina is much like the one they have with Snowing. There isn't any more story left to tell for them. We've seen Regina's story with her mother, father, sister, husband, step-daughter, son, first love and sex-slave/lover. There's nothing else there to cover. Which often leaves us with Snowing v Regina in the past ad nauseum - two birds, one stone in terms of a story for characters whose backstories are very, very well documented. And in the present, it's Regina vs the mean, mean people of Storybrooke. Thus, the storyline ends up being Regina feels angry, turns to evil, someone (usually Henry) intervenes and she changes her mind or is forced into a different action due to circumstances. Lather, rinse, repeat. In Season 2 this present day scenario happened in "We Are Both", "Queen of Hearts", "Welcome to Storybrooke", "The Evil Queen" and "And Straight on 'til Morning". And in a more extended arc from "The Cricket Game" to "The Miller's Daughter". And now that I've typed out that list of episodes where Regina does the same thing over and over and over again, I think I've pegged where I just got sick of the Regina character. At least in Season 3, it seemed we were treated to a different Regina. One who seemed to start to get it and was kind of moving on from victim blaming, whiny, woe is me Regina. It was nice, especially in 3A. She was starting to win me over again. They had an opportunity to create a nice little storyline going forward for her with repairing the relationship with her son and having a blossoming romance with Robin Hood all while fighting the latest threat to the town. Instead, she True Love Kissed her son skipping over all of the pesky abuse and mind-wiping and poisoning and family killing and free will stealing plans she had for him and insta-love via pixie dust negated any uncertainty in terms of a romantic relationship. Were they just trying to take away anything interesting for her character? Because the Marian reveal and her instant reaction of victim blaming sends her character right back into Season 2 territory. We've been there, done that. Let's move on, shall we? It's Season 4. Pick grey or evil and stick with it for her, but no more of the endless cycle of Regina is unhappy - Evil will fix it - Other character/event intervenes - Abandon evil plans - All is forgiven/ignored. Will the Evil Queen choose evil or stay on the lighter side? Her choice this time really counts. We mean it. Tune in next Sunday and the Sunday after that and the Sunday after that and the Sunday after that and the Sunday after that to find out which time we're talking about.

I was really happy to see that Mario Van Peebles is returning to direct another episode this season because I really liked how visually interesting the Neal burial was. As relatively lacking as "It's Not Easy Being Green" was in terms of story, he did a great job in making it fun to watch. Admittedly, it helped that Zelena was throwing Regina on her ass, but interesting camera angles/shots and direction can help massively to cover the lame storytelling.

So now Regina is using Henry's book for information to try to get rid of Marian? Oh yeah, she's real mother of the year material. This is like Season 1 redux and I'm not interested. At all. Adam & Eddy seem to think I care if Regina goes evil and at this point I'm done. If four seasons in there is still a question as to whether she's capable of being a decent human being or not, they're doing it wrong. It's not a compelling story line.

I hate how the showrunners say Emma doesn't have magic outside of Storybrooke except that she sort of does. We've actually seen Emma's magic affect things in this world. More than once. Don't try to say she doesn't have magic here. The only thing I've ever considered to be a rule on this show is that there is not magic in the Land without Magic. It's in the name. That's the point. It does not mean this is the land without magic except for flying monkeys and kidnapping shadows and magic dragons and emotionally charged magical outbursts that affect electrical systems. It's the Land without Magic. Can they not just stick to one freaking rule? It's just so frustrating that we can't even depend on something so simple as the Land Without Magic = No magic.

I think Emma avoiding Hook may be blown out of proportion. I mean there was clear video evidence of flirting prior to Grumpy showing up talking about being under attack and since that scene was in the promo I wouldn't worry too much about gloomy Emma. There is also a pretty passionate kiss followed by a date a few eps later, so this seems more like a promo misdirect or even Hook attributing Emma pulling away to the wrong thing. I thought JMo said that Emma's issues about getting involved with Hook were internal and had something to do with her past. She's also said that Emma feels bad about screwing up Regina's romance, but would never apologize for saving someone's life so I don't see this as some season long arc of Emma giving up her romantic happiness because Regina is in a snit.

The biggest wtf with the 3B curse/lack of portals was that they said oh, the price of reversing the curse is no more travel between worlds. There's a giant wall and we can't get there without another curse. And then within the same episode, we see Walsh the Flying Monkey who had been in NYC for at least eight months with a scar he had received on his neck from Robin Hood's arrow after everyone had returned to the Enchanted Forest. So much for this wall between worlds.

I think a big part of my problem with Season 3 is not so much because they created gaping plot holes, but because they destroyed the entire premise of the show. Twice. The Dark Curse was originally supposed to be so horrid and terrible that no one would cast it because of the terrible toll it takes on the caster. Then they made it clear that the permanent hole in Regina's heart was not so permanent and in fact, casting the curse and destroying an entire kingdom was all cool because she found true love with her son. Oh and her victims are the ones apologizing to her and praising her for being a decent human being. The Dark Curse is the best curse ever! Next, Pan casts it and the thing he loves the most is not someone he truly cares about and Pan doesn't really have a heart, so any hole in his heart is not relevant. If his curse goes into effect, Pan would be happy as can be with his new kingdom. Lastly, we have the final nail in the coffin of the idea that the Dark Curse is the worst thing ever: Snow White cast the Dark Curse. This time they didn't even try to pretend like the hole in the heart was even a thing and as for sacrificing the thing you love the most? Eh, we'll make heart splitting a thing and now there's not even a price to pay by losing the thing you love the most. What the everloving hell? I can handwave a lot of things, but when your entire story is built on the Dark Curse and you negate that premise multiple times in the same season, I'm left with zero faith in any future storylines and extreme annoyance that I ever believed they would actually deal with the story they had created rather than pulling some bullshit magical story out of their ass. As this show becomes more and more about plot, plot, plot and less about the characters, the terrible storytelling becomes really apparent because there is nothing to look at or discuss outside of the terrible plot.

Willow almost got herself killed while wandering around in a fog about Oz. I can see where that might cause Buffy to be more harsh with her about dealing with things. Buffy was mopey, but she didn't walk out in front of traffic. No one wanted Willow to die or get seriously injured. Plus, it got to a level where Willow was getting drunk and using magics well above her head to try to deal and almost got everyone killed, so you know, Willow needed something other than coddling and sympathy at that point.

I think they wanted to keep Outlaw Queen from happening in the Enchanted Forest because it would have shown that Regina was moving on and could be happy without Henry and they couldn't have that. They needed Regina to be desperately unhappy and unable to move on from losing her son. If she strikes up a romantic relationship, they lose the "can't move on" aspect of true love with her son. I don't agree with that idea, but I think that missing Henry because she loved him soooooo much was supposed to be Regina's arc in the Missing Year. That they had Snowing move on pretty much immediately from losing Emma a second time (and we've criticized them plenty for it) just contrasts with how much more special the Regina/Henry bond is because Regina just can't live without her son. I honestly don't know what the writers were thinking with the Regina executes Marian reveal. They could have easily had Marian return from the dead without the unnecessary part where Regina parades a hooded Marian around all while smiling and cupping her ear in delight at hearing Marian's pleas for mercy and then sentences her to death. It's incredibly disturbing. Oh look, here's a gif of it. Even if they try to play the Regina didn't actually execute Marian card, this part happened. Hook & Emma and the audience saw it happen. And it's incredibly squicky if once Robin learns of this, he's still cool with her or allowing his son anywhere near the woman who subjected Marian to this treatment. It's even worse for Robin's character if Regina backslides into evil even the slightest bit when she experiences a set back because there goes the "she's changed" narrative.

But Prince John was a real person in our world. And he wasn't some guy like Blackbeard who is more myth and story than actual person, he was a huge part of Medieval England's history - Magna Carta, anyone? If Robin is the legendary figure who fought the real Prince John, how the hell did Robin, Marian and his Merry Men end up back in this world almost 1000 years after Richard returned from the Crusades? Plus, Sherwood Forest was like a day's hike from Regina's castle, so it's not in England. Prince John will not and does not work for a number of reasons. It's going to have to be some guy who fits the more negative portrayals of the historical Prince John, which is why I figure this prince could be related to the Frozen storyline like Hans' brother.

That was a great apartment. She'd have no trouble finding someone to take over the lease. I'd also believe that Emma has quite a bit of money. Other than her incredible collection of leather jackets, Emma doesn't seem to spend money on anything. She "owns" her car, lived in an empty apartment in Boston and has no expensive hobbies. I expect that she'd have banked pretty much all her cash from her years as a bounty hunter. Having money in the bank would be very important to someone who'd lived on the streets and used to steal food to survive.

What's so very sad about this is that Emma did have something nice going on. She was in love with a guy and was seriously considering accepting his proposal. And she was ready to sacrifice it all in order to save them even before the Walsh = flying monkey reveal. Henry told Regina he liked how happy Walsh made her and both had a much more stable and happy existence than they did in Storybrooke. So while Emma was willing to give up her happiness for these people, you can't say Snow would do the same. I hated what 3B did with the Emma/Snowing relationship because it was just so dismissive of Emma from the Snowing side and yet it's obvious that the writers don't see that at all. Emma is not just the saviour. She's a person with feelings and dreams of her own and I hate that they have her own parents constantly disregarding that for their own purposes. Emma has always been used for what she can do for others (meal ticket as a child, Saviour and curse breaker as an adult), then they make her feel guilty for wanting something else. No one has ever asked what they could do for her. Is it any wonder she spent the season wanting to just ditch them all?

My guess would be that any Adam & Eddy penned episodes would be highly Frozen-centric. That's the kind of stuff where Disney will be very, very involved and the showrunners would be the ones they want writing it. It's possible this prince is related to the Robin Hood story, but I lean more towards this being a Frozen related prince - maybe it's both. Also, I sincerely hope that if they bring a prince into the Robin Hood story that it is not the actual historical figure of Prince John because he really existed and there is an extensive historical record of his real life actions. Twisting myths and legends is fine, twisting real historical figures does not work for me.

I just received a text from my next door neighbor informing me that they've hired a studly billy goat and asking for my prayers that he's successful in knocking up their goats quickly. Sometimes I wonder about my life.

This was actually the part that set me off the most. The conversation was all about them and their new baby with zero mention of the daughter they have. The one whose life they are planning to screw up just so that she can save their asses once again. But when Snow is fretting about missing David, he says she'll see him in the baby's face. Why no mention of Emma who is so much like her father in personality? Or their grandson who has apparently inherited David's heroism gene? It's just enraging how this shows how little the writers even think about Emma with regards to the Charmings that she doesn't even warrant a mention in this conversation.

Dare I hope that a potential Snow as Mayor storyline means more than a week or two will pass in 4A? I mean the woman just had a baby two days ago. Isn't suddenly deciding to be a full time mayor a little much? Also, someone upthread mentioned there not being a town council, but I'm pretty sure Regina was on her way to a council meeting (or used it as an excuse for Henry) after one of her trysts with Graham.

I'm not at all a fan of the time travel idea, but just for the expressions on Emma's face at seeing these people in all of their fairy tale glory, it was totally worth it. I loved that Emma wasn't even trying to play it cool in this episode.

But you're talking about two different Rumpels. I'm saying Past!Rumpel took the potion because he expects Future!Rumpel to use his full knowledge and go into the past to fix it. What Future!Rumpel does and does not do are completely separate from the guy who is drinking the potion. I don't know what is going on in Rumpel's head now. He's got his True Love Belle and he's alive because of Neal idiotically sacrificing himself. He also had Neal himself beg his father to let him go. He may actually respect those wishes. Past!Rumpel would not know this. Past!Rumpel sees only that he gets what he wants and that there is a way to fix things using time travel once they go wrong.

And again, everyone is leaving out the time travel aspect. Rumpel now knows that it is possible, so why would he potentially mess things up for his future self whom he would expect to go back and fix things so that Bae doesn't die? I don't buy that he fell for Emma's pleas to not take Neal's "heroism" away from him, but Emma also said that if he tried to change things he could make it worse and that's an idea Rumpel is very well acquainted with. He's a manipulative freak, but he's also calculating and what if he screws up so that he never sees Bae? Big risk to take when you know you've got the time travel option on the table.

But was Belle really cursed? When she fell over the line, she was stripped of her Belle memories, but didn't have any others because none had been implanted in her (or maybe crazy amnesiac woman was her punishment in the asylum?). It was only until later when Regina came along and used a trigger to give her the Lacey persona. It was very similar to amnesiac David and the windmill triggering false memories. Belle was only Lacey for what like a week or two at most? I don't see that as really sticking with her personality in terms of the "we are both" idea that the other Storybrooke residents faced. However, she should be completely and utterly horrified that she was cool with any of it. I mean, she encouraged Rumpel to kill Henry! Not that I blame her on that one, but a man who is so willing to just run out and kill a child, especially when he knows that the death of that child would devastate his own son, ought to give her serious qualms about continuing any relationship with him. That's pretty much as rotten a heart as you can get. That Belle and Rumpel never once addressed any of his actions during the Lacey period is a very serious problem.

I see this a lot and I don't actually think it is so out of character. Rumpel knows that he only sees pieces of the future and that only having little bits of knowledge causes lots and lots of problems. Here he's been told that his current plans to find his son work and they reconcile. He's also aware that something develops between him and Belle, so there's got to be a thread of hmm with regards to his thinking about changing things now. Let's not forget that Rumpel now knows that someone's discovered the secret to time travel since Emma & Hook are there in the past. Since his curse plans did work and he knows that his future self will have all the information about what happened to his son, why wouldn't he take the potion so that he can be assured of getting to that point in the future where he'd know all and thus be in a position to use the newly acquired time travel spell to go back and save his son? Alternately, if his future self decides that taking the potion was a bad idea, he could go back and stop himself from taking it in the first place. It's not like he needs to worry about aging or anything like that. He's got all the time in the world.

My original post was meant as an attempt to address some of the things I've seen (not necessarily here) where people question why Emma would ever consider hanging out with the woman who essentially ruined her life. Bringing in all the other stuff muddled what I was trying to say about that specific piece of Emma's history with the Evil Queen because I really do think a big part of Emma never addressing it is because she does not connect Regina with the Evil Queen. However, Emma is in fact very aware of how dangerous Regina is and goes out of her way to try to talk down the crazy. That said, there actually is a difference between the crazy Regina that Emma has seen and the totally off the chain sadistic psychopath that is the Evil Queen. If we look at Season 2, Emma was not around when Regina was threatening everyone to get Henry back and I'm not sure that everything was shared with her later. She talked to Archie and was told that Regina was trying to change and was willing to give her a chance, but was still wary of Regina hanging with Henry. Then there was the frame up and Regina backslid, but there was reason for Regina to blame Emma & Co for not believing her. Emma was out of town again during the Johanna murder - Was this incident shared? I don't know. And then Cora died and when Regina went off the rails and targeted Snow, again it was for a reason (and a much better one than she told a secret). Since Regina mindwiped Henry and Hook was not on anyone's team but his own, I'm not sure if what Regina was planning to do with the failsafe was ever completely revealed or understood and given the chaos surrounding the whole thing, I'm not sure Emma would have processed it anyway. The Evil Queen targeted people randomly and seemed to enjoy inflicting pain and suffering on everyone just because, the Regina Emma knows seems slightly more sane because she picks targets based on motives Emma can understand. In Season 3, all of those targets aligned with Emma's, so her inclusion makes sense. Though I will point out that Emma calls her a monster and also expects Regina to jump ship once Zelena's plans are discovered due to the very possibility that Snow will never be born, so it's not like Emma isn't aware of things. She just doesn't feel the need to rock the boat so long as Regina is playing nice.