lilithred

Lol. I was gonna write a long winded response but this post here reminded me why I better not bother and just laugh instead.

Man, this whole shitty season has been worth sitting through just to watch that 10 second footage of Jenna making a fool of herself and getting flung around like a rag doll after being the one to initiate the physical altercation. She literally bumped her head on the coffee table or chair or whatever it was she was clinging to. Hilarious. Ceejai handled the whole situation really well, so good for her.

[snip] He could just like how it looks. And even if he were to wear it in a religious sense, what does being a "so called pansexual" have to do with that?

I must be one of the few people who does not give a single fuck about Chris "leaking" this oh so confidential, top secret information that happened to be filmed and soon to be aired on national television, anyway. Jenna said EXACTLY what Chris said she said in his post. He didn't lie. He didn't embellish. He didn't paint her in a way that she didn't paint herself. I don't even care that he hid it from everyone. I actually LOVED what he said about why he didn't want to confess to it, because then the issue becomes exactly what this entire stupid ass episode was about, "who leaked the info", instead of the fact that Jenna is an ignorant, offensive piece of shit. How in the fuck can Jenna sit there with a straight face and say her life is "ruined" because of Chris' leak when SHE SAID WHAT HE SAID SHE SAID? Like? That is one of the most ridiculous thing I think I've ever witnessed in my life. As far as him needing to respect Jenna's way of thinking....nope, NOPE, you do not have a "right to your opinion" when your opinion disrespects someone else's existence. I have absolutely zero respect for Jenna, Jenna's "opinions", and people who think like Jenna. Because racism and homophobia are not "matters of opinion". That way of thinking is wrong, period, and does not deserve any respect. Although I didn't see it that way, I don't even care if Chris was bullying her. Good. Excellent. Please pick these morons apart at every turn until they're forced to confront the fact that their mentalities are disgusting and need to be changed. Maybe his approach was not exactly effective or a good course of action to reach a goal of getting her to understand his POV, but I don't blame him one bit for his behavior. Relateable and absolutely more than understandable, when her "opinion" directly offends who he is as an individual.

So to all those people who were mad at Iris for finally being honest with herself, confessing her feelings for Barry, and being "disloyal" to Eddie, are you happy now that she rejected Barry and is choosing to stay faithful to a relationship that her heart is not truly in? Do you love her now?

The things I hated: - The constant references to Iris and Barry's sibling nature. This show has literally NEVER done that before, and all of a sudden, in the same episode that they kiss, Joe calls Barry his adopted son, someone calls Barry Iris's brother, and Iris looks at Barry and asks where "dad" is? What? Whyyy? That is so weird. It's just SO weird. I hated it. - The cattiness between Linda and Iris. How gross. Stop it, show. Don't go there. - Barry and his juggling act with Iris and Linda. I understand that he's been in love with Iris his whole life. I understand that he's human and some feelings may linger. But dude, you're actively leading another woman on when you date her, and then turn around and ask about "dating advice" regarding Iris. He flat out LIED to her about being over Iris. It's so shitty. And honestly, Linda hasn't been with Barry long enough for me to believe she'd put up with him constantly sidelining her in favor of Iris. - Eddie "suddenly" feeling the third wheel around Barry and Iris when that's never happened before. If anything, the whole love confession should have made things awkward between them, but instead, they were all over each other during the double date. How is Eddie JUST NOW noticing that they're too touchy feely? It should have been that can't talk/joke with each other like they used to, and Eddie noticing and wondering why something has changed. Instead, he's upset about a dynamic that's always been there. This whole "love square" is turning out to be really poorly written, IMO. I was gonna mention some issues I had with Iris's actions, but the Iris hate in this thread is so gross, I can't contribute to it, lmao. Why is the woman always the bad guy? What a mess. Things I liked: Everything else. Cute kiss between Westallen. The RF reveal. Cisco and Wells scene. Great stuff. It's just lame af that it's all going to be erased and everyone will go back to being clueless idiots again.

What a mess. Caroline wasn't trying to force him into doing or becoming anything. She just wanted an answer and he couldn't give her one. Caroline is a being a "total bitch" because her humanity is off, not because Stefan didn't want to go out with her. Stefan admitting to some kind of feelings for her would have given Caroline a reason not to flip her switch, but she did it because her mom died. No one is blaming Stefan except Stefan, because he is the type of man that wracks himself with guilt even when things aren't his fault. It's the type of character that he is and it's who he's always been. Why are people blaming Caroline for something Stefan is doing to himself?

Great episode. One of the bests of the season. I agree with the poster who said it felt like old TVD where so many things are going on and you don't even have time to process it. I missed that. The beginning scene with the whole gang sleeping on the floor in support of Caroline touched my heart. Especially seeing Tyler there. Never did care about Forwood one way or the other, but it's nice that even though they aren't on the best of terms (did we ever see them make up?), he's still there for her at this difficult time like this. Although I initially hated that they were doing the humanity thing with Caroline (they don't even bother pretending they haven't run out of ideas, do they?), I've grown to accept it and anticipate what's in store for her character. Caroline's speech at the end hit so close to home. Great acting from Candice. That Bamon hug was adorable. It was just super, super cute. The only time I've ever found Damon tolerable is with Bonnie. Finally, I loved Stefan's "love epiphany" and what he said about having something with Caroline that could be greater than than the messed up, doppelganger, "love at first sight" stuff he's had with Katherine and Elena. It's pretty much exactly the way I've been feeling as I've watched Caroline and Stefan's little romance unfold. He's never fallen in love slowly, over time, and I think that's why it took him so long to realize what was happening. Because it was so unlike any type of love he's felt before. One based on friendship and support and just enjoying being around one another, not seeing someone for the first time and feeling like you "have" to know them. I'm just really, really satisfied with what they've done with Steroline. And at this point, especially considering that Stefan flat out said that what he feels for Caroline could be "even better" than his past loves, I think it's very likely that they're endgame and that's exciting to me.

Oh, FFS. I don't think Iris was in the wrong last night, but even if she was, so what? She's human. She's allowed to make mistakes and say and do dumb things based on messy, confusing emotions. I don't want a female protagonist who's supposed to be portrayed as being perfect or in the right all the time. Goodness. Let her live. Besides, given all the emotionally manipulative actions Barry has taken against Iris, I'd say they are quite even now. I don't hate either of them. I don't have a real problem with any of their actions. Neither of them came off looking fantastic after this episode, but that's okay. That is what makes them interesting to me.

I'm so glad they're back to being friends and you're actually SEEING how they feel about each other and why it would work. He calms down her crazy and she makes him laugh. I know it was all part of their story and how they come to realize they have deeper feelings for each other, but for me, they just don't work as the "angsty couple". It damn near ruined them, because it was so unlike anything we've seen from them before. What made Steroline so cute, what makes them currently is so cute, is that they are just best friends who enjoy each other's company and somewhere deep down, maybe it's something more. If I never have to see them argue or walk away from each other again, I'll be just fine.

You're right, that's true. But there was a moment where they laughed and stared at each other like it was about to happen before she started crying. I'm pretty sure it would have had she not. This IS quite an awkward for them to get together and I can bet that because Caroline overheard Stefan's promise to her mom, when he DOES realize/admit his feelings for her, she won't be receptive because she will believe he's doing it out of pity or obligation.

I know I'm probably in the minority, but...goodness gracious, Steroline is so cute. They are saving this show for me. They are just cute, cute, cute. I wasn't crazy about all the angsty stuff between them in the beginning of the season, but this is what I loved about them in Season 4 & 5. This is how they should be writing them. Just laughing and hanging out and being there for each other. They're adorable together and I love the way Stefan looks at her. I was hoping he would go in for the kiss. Maybe next week. :)

It makes her looks horrible and shallow, quite honestly. They're messing this up so badly.

Barry having THREE love interests in a single episode is just too much. This isn't a damn anime. I can't believe they are actually going there with Barry and Caitlin. I can't believe they dropped actual, undeniable romantic hints for the two of them. Why? Why couldn't it have just been Barry and Iris OR Barry and Caitlin? Why do we need both? I can't stand love triangles, and honestly, at this point, it's enough to make me want to bow out. No, but who the fuck wrote this episode because it was SO UNLIKE anything we've ever seen or heard from Barry so far? I actually had to pause and rewind the TV because I was taken aback by that line. If that's the only reason Barry has been there for Iris, he's no better than your typical "nice guy" who whines about the friendzone. It made him seem like a gross creep.

What a joke this episode was...it was like someone accidentally mixed up the script with someone's fanfic. Where did any of this come from? Are they really going to make Caitlin have a thing for Barry? What is Iris's purpose on this show? Is she really the female lead or was that the old bait and switch to get people like me watching? Did they really have her walk away from Barry like she couldn't give less a of shit about him after he showed up to help her? How is that the same girl who loved and adored him so much and was always so considerate of his feelings? Are they really only making her want him NOW because someone else does? Do they not want people to like her? What a mess. This doesn't feel like the same show I watched before the hiatus and I'm just....I never say this but...I can't even. I literally just can't even.

I'm so confused by this post. Do you really think that Barry is only friends with Iris because he wants to bang her? That he's held on to this crush for 14 years because he wants to get in her pants? When have we ever been shown Barry "lusting" after Iris, to the point where you think he doesn't understand the difference between that and love? Barry seems quite mopey and sad about the fact that he can't be with Iris, not like he's horny and disappointed because he can't sleep with her. Why do we need to hear him say it? It's been shown onscreen plenty of times. If a girl who has absolutely no interest in your nerdy hobbies or science events, skips right along aside you once you find out you get to go to one and seems just as excited as you are about it -- she's a keeper. When Barry talked to Iris as the Flash for the first time and found out just how far she would go to prove to him and everyone else that Barry wasn't crazy, he said to her that "her friend" was a lucky guy. He knows, and we know, just how much Iris loves him (as a friend) and just how important he is to her. Why do we need it spelled out? Maybe someday soon, we'll get to hear Barry say "I love you because you're funny and you're kind and you're always there for me" but I'm doing okay without it. I can see that for myself. Regarding the spoiler -- And if I'm wrong and they've been somehow building towards some epic love story between Snowbarry, they've done a shitty job at it and I won't be sticking around to see what else they've got up their sleeves.

Agreed, and I meant to expand on that. I think that some people automatically think they won't like the main ship and that's why they write it off. When I heard what the set up was for Barry and Iris -- "best friend in love with the girl who doesn't realize it", I was not pleased. It's one of my least favorite tropes. I didn't expect to like them, let alone ship them as hard as I do. I think in their case, the writing has been really good, and it eventually won me over despite my reservations. Barry was sweet, and never acted (openly) aggressive towards Eddie, or entitled to have Iris like him back. It was impossible for me to not want Barry to find happiness and get the girl. And not just any girl, but Iris. Because instead of Iris being your basic, average unattainable dream girl that the main guy just needed to get over to find someone who appreciated him, they did a good job of showing just why Barry would love someone like her. And her love and support of him made me like her as a person, too. Basically, I think some people, myself included, didn't come into it with an open mind or expect to like them, and therefore, they don't. Self fulfilling prophecy. Here lately, especially after the Christmas episode, I saw a lot of people switch gears from either "not shipping them" to "shipping them" or "shipping Snowbarry" to "shipping both" and I honestly think it's because the writing is just there for Westallen. They are doing everything they can to sell it and make you understand and believe that they should be together. I'm there, and hopefully for the sake of people's enjoyment of the show, the things that are still bothering some people like a lack of POV for Iris, will be amended and more people will come around.

It's because Katie Cassidy and Laurel are insulted, criticized, and dragged through the mud on a constant basis by rabid fans. The poor woman actually gets death threats on twitter for merely daring to exist and be employed on the show. Mark and Andrew are doing the stand up thing by supporting her, praising her, and refusing to write off her character. It's a nice "fuck you" to all the loony toons out there who want her gone. They're like "that's cool, but we like her, so...nah".

Honestly, at this point, I ship the hell out of Cisco/Caitlin and would love to see where that could go. I knew it was official when he woke up and his first word was "Caitlin". Seeing as how I ship Fitzsimmons, Westallen, and now Ciscait, I obviously have a soft spot for the "best friends attached at the hip who would do anything to protect each other" thing. I don't know if Caitlin and Cisco are best friends, but in my head, they are. I know there's like a 2% chance of it happening but I'll still enjoy their friendship scenes and hope. As far as what made people ship Snowbarry over Westallen before the even show aired, well, there's the obvious thing that we won't even get in to. And then there's what another poster mentioned about people latching on to them as the new Olicity just because she was a science chick and on Barry's team, but I also think it's because of this strange, new trend that has people immediately rejecting the canon ship and preferring the crack ship/background pairing and trying to make it happen instead. It happened with Arrow, and although I don't watch, didn't it happen on The 100 with Clarke and her love interest? I think a lot of people just fancy themselves to be rebels and find themselves adverse to the main canon ship, no matter how it's written.

If they don't realize how much shit they'd get for this, they're idiots. This is one of the few reasons I am almost certain that Westallen is the real deal. Selling a black woman as the female lead and superhero's main love interest for the first time ever and then being like... "just kidding, we're going to hook him up with this white woman instead"...they'd get skewered.

You know, if they ARE purposely dropping romantic hints for Snowbarry, I'm not okay with that at all. It weakens and undermines the actual foreground, love story they are trying to sell. If they eventually want to take that route, cool, but don't do it while simultaneously telling me that Iris is the love of his life. Either commit to writing one romance at a time, or go the full blown triangle route. I would feel this way even if Barry's main love WAS Caitlin. Don't play the "Barry only has eyes for one girl...or does he?" game. It's cheap.

Right, and then as soon as he got his powers back, he whispered Iris's name and ran off to make sure she was okay. And then he apologized for not saving her in the form of The Flash. The point is not that Barry didn't save Caitlin, it's that the writers wrote no resolution for her hostage storyline when they easily could have if they were interested in them as romantic couple, the same way they did with Barry and Iris. If Caitlin has feelings for Barry, my channel has been on the wrong station this entire time and I've been watching a different show. I was so confused for a moment about what this "almost kiss" was that was being referred to, and then I thought surely we're not talking about that brief moment in the power outage episode where Caitlin looked as if she wanted to say something to Barry right before Cisco interrupted them? Surely we don't think that ANYONE in their right mind would choose that moment to make a move on a man they've just met and started working with, someone they know fully well is in love with someone else, and surely if there was such an awkward, inappropriate individual, it wouldn't be glacial, icy exterior-ed Caitlin Snow? When Barry got mean with Caitlin while he was under the metahuman affects, we never even saw a resolution for it on screen. In fact, Barry apologized to everyone for his behavior EXCEPT her. But who was the main person he wanted to make sure would forgive him? Iris. Barry got all of his coworkers gifts for Christmas and we saw him hand something to Cailtin...what was it? We'll never know, but his necklace to Iris was a pretty big deal and the whole episode pretty much revolved around it. My point is that if they were laying the groundwork for Snowbarry, they've let plenty of possible romantic opportunities come and go. They're focus right now seems to be Barry and Iris. I see him building a friendship with Caitlin, and I see that they're using her interactions with Barry to help develop her character. For example, her crying to Barry about Ronnie wasn't about the two of them. It was to let us in on Caitlin's backstory and the pain she was holding on to regarding her dead fiance. Them bonding over it was just a plus. No one is saying it that Snowbarry could NEVER happen. The writers can do whatever they want, all it takes is a stroke of the pen, but I completely disagree that they're laying down the groundwork for them as a romance. I see two people forming a friendship. And if we're all so concerned about preserving platonic friendships on TV, how about we start with their's? They do look like brother and sister. And am I the only who thinks she seems to old for him? Not that Danielle looks significantly older or anything, but the way they both carry themselves and act around each other make them appear to be in the two different age ranges. He and Felicity look fine together, even cute, but the thought of romantic Caitlin/Barry makes me laugh for some reason. It would be like an adult with a teen.

Enzo is such a useless character. This whole "single white female" thing he has going with Stefan just makes no sense to me. They couldn't come up with a better reason to keep him around? His beef with him is so petty and strange. What has he even done to deserve his hatred to the point where he's stalking his life? Do something better with this character, or just get rid of him. Kai cracks me up. I loved that he mentioned "Ricki Lake" because it's so 90's and I'm glad that they're remembering the fact that he's never experienced anything outside of that decade. Caroline and Stefan are super cute. Pretty sure they're be making out soon, and I'm okay with it. I loved them as best friends, and I wasn't sure how they'd work out as an actual romance, but so far, I think the actors are selling it and playing well off of each other, and I don't get any awkward or squicky vibes, the kind you sometimes get when platonic TV friends turn romantic. It's probably because Stefan and Caroline have been eye-fucking since their prom and it seems like a natural progression. They're really need to rescue Bonnie. It's sad that they didn't even mention her.

We're only half way in so they still have a chance to fix this one sided thing. I'm under the impression that they're purposely holding out on giving Iris a POV. I think they're waiting for the green eyed epiphany trope to come about in the form of Linda Park before they explore her side of things. Cliche to the max, but what are you gonna do?

I like Felicity too, but one way for them to change that is by inserting her in places where she's not needed. They need to spend less time thinking about how to get Felicity into Central Central and more time developing the characters they already have. Where is Iris's mom? Where are Iris's other friends if she has any? What are Caitlin and Cisco's lives like outside of Star Labs? Doesn't matter, let's watch Felicity and Barry awkwardly flirt some more. Yeah, I know I'm jumping to conclusions but the fact that this guy really called her the "hero of both shows" when she's not even ON The Flash shows just where his head is, i.e., firmly up this character's ass.