lilithred

Maybe you're confused about what "logical" means in this case. Let me clarify: what is stopping Barry and Iris from having a perfectly healthy, and working relationship that ends of up being good for the both of them? Because I've never heard a reason beyond them having lived in the same house for a period of time. If THEY don't consider that a good enough reason to stop them, why should any one in the audience? I think a romance between Barry and Felicity would be boring because they are too similar, but that's a not a logical reason why the two characters shouldn't be together. It's why I don't like them. Take Laurel and Oliver for example. They have too much of a soiled history together, and have been shown to bring out the worst in each other. They can't make a healthy relationship work. That's a logical reason they shouldn't be together that has nothing to do with how I feel about them as a couple or their dynamic. It's not about canon. I don't know how many times that needs to be said. Whether this show was an original story or not, I still wouldn't think that Barry needed a different love interest. I don't care about the comics. I'm looking at the show. Why shouldn't Barry be with someone who constantly reassures him that he's an amazing person and deserves to be loved? Someone who goes with him to dorky movies and science events that she has no interest in just to be a good friend to him? Someone who went through all the trouble of finding the Flash just to save his faith? Why shouldn't Iris be with someone who loves her the way that Barry does? All of that shouldn't matter because they're "foster siblings", which neither of them consider themselves to be? This show has done a nice job of setting up Iris as the love of his life. He had a chance with someone who was literally the perfect girl for him in the form of Felicity, and was still not interested because for him, it's Iris, or it's no one. This was laid on so thick, even in just the first few episodes, that him being with anyone else wouldn't sit well with me. So forget the comics. I'd feel this way with or without them. I've never liked stories like that either, but what makes this one different for me is that Iris already loves Barry. She loves and supports him so much. She's not some girl who doesn't know he's alive or couldn't care less about him and just needs to "wake up". She's a girl who loves her best friend but has never considered if she loved him in that way. If one party has spent the majority of the friendship in love with the other, it was never really platonic. Caitlin and Barry are platonic. Cisco and Caitlin are platonic. I wouldn't consider Barry and Iris as such. Just like Caitlin said, their friendship was never "normal" because Barry was always in love with Iris. Even if in your eyes, "platonic" means they've never touched body parts, I wouldn't consider it an "amazing" platonic friendship when one person was hiding so much from the other.

They're not siblings. They don't consider each other as such, Barry had feelings for her before they ever even lived together, and Iris's own father, who's opinion, I think, should matter most in this case, is totally okay with it and egging Barry on. So how is that a "logical" reason why it wouldn't work? It may be a reason why YOU don't like it, but there's no real reason why the fact that they grew up in the same house towards the end of Barry's childhood should stop them from dating.

This is the point. What would changing Barry's love interest improve? Nothing. He and Iris fit well together. They don't have to be your cup of tea, but there's no logical reason why they're not "working" or why Barry should suddenly be paired with someone else. Does anyone have one? I'm not a comic book person and would probably stop watching if they switched out Iris with Caitlin as Barry's love interest. Not because of 'canon" because it's just stupid to A. set Iris up as the love of his life and not follow through on that. B. have Barry date multiple women from the main cast.

Yeah, WTF is that line about? They all sound delusional. She is a hot blonde. Are we supposed to pretend this isn't the case because she wears glasses and vintage blouses?

Felicity and Ray are guest starring in episode 1.18 http://variety.com/2015/tv/news/arrow-without-oliver-producers-preview-the-rise-of-black-canary-atom-and-brick-1201410918/ “One day on the set I said to her, ‘The Flash, The Atom and Green Arrow are all in love with you,'” Kreisberg recalls. “She had the greatest answer; she goes, ‘I think the reason it works is because I don’t look like the girl that you’d think that about.’ Emily is really the superhero of both shows.” Rickards and Routh will also bring their own brand of heroism to “The Flash” in episode 18, which is fittingly titled “All-Star Team-Up,” teased Kreisberg: “In episode four of ‘Flash’ when Felicity came by, it wasn’t just a gag to have Felicity come by. It really was integrated into the story. When you reach what’s going on in ‘The Flash’ at that point in the season, Barry is really at a crossroads. Having Felicity come by exactly when he needs her really plays into the whole storyline. It’s fine because as Marc said, Ray Palmer is all about technology and STAR Labs is all about technology. We get to see Ray so happy to be in STAR Labs… With Cisco [Carlos Valdes] and Ray, they’re new best friends. The STAR Labs team is going to help Ray further his ATOM project.” Lol! Way to take one the few characters that is generally favorable with the entire audience and shove her down everyone's throats until they are sick of her. How does one speak a line like "three superheroes are in love with you" and not consider that it might be overkill? And since when is The Flash in love with Felicity, anyway? I'm not too fond of this Kreisberg guy.

I would put my money on him not being a virgin. He looked like he knew what he was doing when he kissed Felicity. He even made the first move. He only seems shy when it comes to Iris. I can believe that even though he's always been in love with her, he'd casually pursue other women, but nothing serious, and it always came back to Iris. I loved them in the last episode. I would be on board.

If a girl is making googly eyes at someone while sitting on another man's lap, she's in a love triangle.

True. I think the visual of Caitlin doing that it was made it so hilarious to me. I can only hope that there was some sort of purpose of Iris witnessing Flash's fight. I guess it could be that she saw him save Eddie and that may be what makes her forgive him.

Why in the hell would Iris run straight into an explosive crime scene for a front row viewing? "I saw on TV that something dangerous was going on, so I thought I'd unnecessarily put myself right in the middle of it". What? That was the second dumbest thing in this episode, the first one being Caitlin trying to open her frozen door. I'm laughing thinking about it. I loved the Cisco/Caitlin interactions in this episode. LOVED IT. I can't tell if I ship it or if I just really like their friendship, but when he said "Not while I'm around"...um, that was super cute. Barry/Joe are the best thing ever. I hated that Joe called him "son", though. They really need to do everything in their power to make it clear that Iris and Barry are not foster siblings and don't consider each other as such. Iris looked so hot in that blue dress and those black boots. My goodness! Barry and Iris totally broke my heart, but not in that same (good) way that they did in the Christmas episode. This felt...different. If I didn't know any better, I would have considered this their "farewell" as Barry accepts that Iris doesn't love him that way and gives her and Eddie his blessing. I mean, he was helping her pack to move in with another man, for God's sake. And I didn't see much "longing" from Iris, but more so sadness that their friendship was changing, and a little bit of guilt because she doesn't feel the same way about him. I didn't like it. And at first, I thought their fist bump was cute, but then it actually made me really sad that they felt like they couldn't hug each other anymore. I loved their closeness and how they were always touchy/feeling with each other and used to walk arm and arm like a couple. And that will probably never happen again. Well, until they become an actual couple. But this episode seemed to totally close the door on that possibility. EDIT: Also, I'm disappointed that Iris went ahead and moved in with Eddie, for real. I didn't want them to drag this out that long, but it seems like this is going to be a legit love triangle (I honestly never considered it to be one before and would always get confused when people referred to one on the show). This is annoying to me because I find Eddie to be so dry and boring and I think he and Iris have zero chemistry.

One can only hope. I'm always down with more PoC characters. And the idea of Iris having a friend outside of Barry is really exciting.

Eventually. But I can bet my right foot that, initially, Iris will be jealous about their relationship and start questioning if she really does see Barry as "just a friend" after all. I can also guess that Linda will notice their connection and bow out gracefully.

Of course that is her purpose. Anyone who's ever watched a TV show before shouldn't even bother questioning it. Well, that's an incredibly disgusting way to put things. Land him? As if he's a prize, and not a human being? As if they're all in competition for him? And what is with the shipper baiting of Barricity and Snowbarry? The antics and statements made by the writers this past week has really made me re-evaluate if I want to let myself get into this show or not. I don't like watching shows run by morons. Too stressful.

I know that she called herself "Killer Frost" in her ice bucket challenge video. It would be a total waste not to use that storyline. Otherwise, why is she Caitlin Snow?

Well, no one said they were the MOST popular couple. Of course they're not as big as Olicity and Captain Swan. The show has been on for 9 episodes. It was said that they were "on track" to becoming very popular, you said very plainly that they weren't. But...they are. They actually are. The fact that they're even included on those types of polls and are able to make a dent after only 3 months show that they are "on track" to being just as popular. Just because you don't see people talking about it doesn't mean they aren't.

What makes you think they aren't popular? Which outlets and social media have you polled and interpreted? Something being popular/unpopular isn't something that can be in someone's humble opinion. It just is or isn't. Westallen was popular enough on Tumblr for me to become curious and check out the show. They've trended worldwide on twitter multiple times. They win every "who's the best girl for Barry" poll (rme). They came in 3rd place for best couple of 2014 with over 20,000 votes only second to couples from OAUT and TVD, and beat couples from shows that have been on for way longer with way bigger fanbases. That's pretty big for a show that's only been on for 9 episodes. You don't think that's slightly impressive or shows some form of them being favorable with the audience?

Iris and Caitlin both have great foundation laid to be well written characters, IMO. The fact that they're love interests for different men don't negate all the potentially good and interesting things about them. Why do we criticize their roles when all Cisco does is name villains and the only purpose Eddie serves is to kiss Iris so we get a perfect shot of Barry's head in the middle of them looking displeased? This show hasn't fleshed out anyone all that well so far. Reading spoilers, I'm getting the impression that they will but I'm not seeing why the problem supposedly lies with the women on the show.

Well, not that Arrow has anything to do with anything, but the Green Arrow's love interest is not and has never been as important or consequential as Barry Allen's. Iris West is Wally West's aunt and the grandmother of Bart Allen. Her wikipedia page actually has the character listed as "Iris West Allen", because in most versions where we see the Flash, she is not even just his girlfriend, she's his wife. The Flashverse depends on their union. Sure, they COULD do whatever they wanted with these characters, but why would they? Felicity being bumped to the main love interest on Arrow was not a result of the writers wanting to shake shit up for fun or thinking "anything goes". The writers clearly intended for Laurel and Oliver to be the real deal (and there's still no saying that they won't find their way back to each other eventually) because we had two seasons of people saying things like "It's Laurel and Oliver. It's always going to be Laurel and Oliver". But it wasn't working. The critics didn't like it. The fans didn't like it. They HAD to rearrange things or otherwise, further annoy and alienate their fans who didn't like them together. So they chose the bubbly, I.T. girl who a lot of the fans were already suggesting would be better for Oliver. If fans and critics had reacted to Lauliver with more positivity, there's no doubt in my mind that we'd still be going round and round with them until the end of the series. If the writers didn't want the pressure of trying to make a classic comic book couple work again, they would have left Iris out of this version. My guess is that this time, they have a better idea of how to do it right. As a previous poster said, they either put them together or don't put her on the show and well, she's here so...

I will believe it when I see it. There is more to this story, and it has something to do with Eddie.

Well, I personally don't think that spoiler means that Barry is revealing his Flash secret to Iris. It could literally just mean that he "reveals" himself as in pops up in front of her. He still has his mask on and could be doing the blurry faced thing, we don't know. Candice is in Uggs instead of Iris's black boots (which she seems to slip on whenever she's not actually filming), so that photo is probably a rehearsal. I don't know what that means or how it all fits, but I don't think they'd kiss AND do the Flash reveal in the same episode. More than likely, they'll get together and then she'll find out his secret and it will cause a rift.

Well, here's the thing: these aren't the same writers as the ones on Arrow. The creators were the same, but the actual people developing plotlines and writing scripts here are not the same as the ones on Arrow. Not a single one. So whatever happened on that show actually has nothing to do with what's going on this show. I am somewhat sick of hearing "Well look at what happened on Arrow! They never planned Olicity! Look at them now!". Honestly...fuck Arrow. It has nothing to do with this. But since people want to compare things, how about the fact that the main difference here is that the Arrow writers screwed themselves with their horrible writing for the Laurel/Oliver pairing and the Laurel character as a whole, and had no choice but to rearrange things? In 9 episodes, I've already seen better foundation for Barry/Iris, better chemistry between the actors than Katie/Stephen, and better characterization for Iris than Laurel. They've got a decent thing going here, and it's entirely up to them to keep it moving in the right direction. There's no reason why Barry and Iris can't get together, and stay together. I can't say for sure what the writers have planned, but seeing as how we've been hit over the head with how much Barry believes Iris is the one for him, how Joe mentioned the universe wanting them together, how everyone that comes within 20 feet of them can see their connection, I think it's safe to say that the writers intend for them to be "the couple" of the show. And honestly, if Barry and Iris weren't the real deal, there was literally no point in even using the Iris West character. As mentioned, she was left out in the 1990 version (though it's possible they could have brought her in later had the show lasted), and in some versions of the comics. But to actually cast her and not have her as the love of Barry's life would be like having any version of Superman with a Lois Lane character and them being like "lol, they're just meant to be friends". It would be utterly pointless and a complete misuse of the comics. To kill her off or have her turn evil (is that really a theory?)...I am honestly getting annoyed just thinking about it, because why? Why would they do that? As far as people shipping him with Caitlin...I don't even know what to say about that. I don't understand how we even got here. They barely speak if it's not involving work, and they are both in love with other people. Why is it that every time a man and a woman even look at each other, people go wild and start saying they are meant to be? It's clear that they don't even think about each other in that way (right now, at least), so the fact there's even this big "debate" going on is just absurd to me. I don't believe that Barry and Iris will get together and never fall apart. I don't believe that they will never break up or date other people. But my thing is...why pair him with Caitlin? She and Barry are coworkers and good friends, why screw that up with a stupid romance? She has her own storyline, and her own destiny. She also has her own love interest, where the dynamic between them would be so much more interesting than a workplace hook up (hello, they are literally fire and ice). If they wanted a second option for Barry, a potential romance lingering in the background, they could have literally used anyone else or created an original character. They could have called her Courtney Winter and called it a day. Instead she is Caitlin Snow, destined to become Killer Frost, and destined for Firestorm. Why mess with that? Why? If Barry were to ever get romantically involved with Caitlin, the options here are that they shelf comic book canon and toss Iris aside to give Barry and Caitlin a serious romance, or they create a pointless love triangle, giving Barry a quick fling with Caitlin, that will still ultimately lead to Barry "picking" Iris. I can't say for sure that neither will ever happen, but I can say I am not okay with either of those things and will drop this show if I even see a hint of it coming. I have no interest in a storyline like that.

I can't even get annoyed with Barry or Joe for keeping Iris in the dark because it's such poor storytelling, I can't take it seriously. There is literally no reason not to tell Iris about Barry being The Flash. Barry even said in one episode that the only way to get Iris to stop blogging about Flash and to keep her safe from meta humans was to tell her the truth...and then he and Joe started talking about Barry's crush and it was like he never even mentioned it. The writers want so bad to the do the whole "everyone knows the hero's identity except his girl" storyline that they are throwing all logic out of the window. She needs to find out within the next few episodes or it will seriously change how I view the writing on this show.

I was watching the Barry Allen episodes of Arrow recently, and GG is noticeably skinnier there. He has definitely beefed up a bit since then.

What? Barry and Iris are supported by a big chunk of the fans. The whole reason I even decided to give this show a shot was because the people on my Tumblr couldn't shut up about "Westallen". On Arrow, Laurel and Oliver never had even half as much support as Barry and Iris already do. Someone posted this "tweets per day" chart and at least from those who are watching with a shipping preference, Westallen takes the obvious lead: http://topsy.com/analytics?q1=westallen&q2=snowbarry&via=Topsy And even though I lean more towards disliking Laurel than liking her and certainly never saw any chemistry with her and Oliver, I don't necessarily think it's a good thing when writers drop storylines to please shippers. Like it or not, Green Arrow and Black Canary are comic book canon, and instead of changing his love interest, they should have focused on how they could have fixed the characterizations they screwed up.