GirlvsTV

Tbh, knowing that watching the next ep means I will likely have to endure a bunch of LL propping and witness .05 secs of Oliver/LL smooshing faces makes me want to give it a pass all together. With the exception of Papa Smoak returning, I'm not really seeing anything that has me excited or interested in the rest of season.

Diggle obviously made a terrible mistake in trusting his brother, but every single person on Team Arrow was in that prison of their own free will. The writers really seemed to go out of their way to be clear that going out, 'one last time,' was a CHOICE Laurel made, knowing the risks involved. LL was well aware Oliver had reservations abt trusting Andy, she could have decided he was right and stayed at home, but she didn't. There are a lot of things I wished they handled differently around LL's demise, but I do appreciate they gave her some agency in her decision to fight against DD and Merlyn at the end.

That episode was one big *shrug* for me. And it isn't leaving me excited or interested in anything coming up either. I didn't like LL and had no emotional investment in either her character or her relationships with other characters on the show so, using her death as motivation for the rest of the team doesn't do anything for me. I think the Oliver / Laurel stuff at the end was maybe a bone for the comic stans but it misfired really badly.

Oh man, I was blubbering mess like every 5 mins during The Body. I've never actually been able to watch it again though. Since I don't really care for the character that's dying, I'm not sure if I'm emotionally invested enough to get weepy. Tbh, I feel pretty disconnected from all of the characters except Felicity right now. I don't dislike Quentin as much as I did at the end of season 3, but I don't really care about him either. He's just kind of - there.

Also, no one is forcing Oliver to be the Green Arrow. If the vigilante life is too painful without Felicity, he could certainly pack it in and move back to Ivy Town with his slow cooker. Oliver CHOSE to return to Star City with Felicity - who even offered to go back to Ivy Town if that was what he wanted. And then later Oliver chose to be a big fat liar and secret keeper so, here we are.

I could definitely see this being the case, I just hope they follow through with it before the end of the season and she has a moment where she gets to express her feelings to someone. I thought that was what the writers were doing with her character last year but we never actually got there.

That was fine. A nice breather from the last episode. Enjoyed Curtis in the lair, although he's the only character down there I'm having positive vibes towards at this point. Glad he chose not to join up for the time being. I know it was Felicity's decision to leave the team, but I'm not ready for her to get a replacement yet. No idea why we had to be beat over the head with how much pain Oliver's in after the split. I honestly don't care, especially since we still haven't really gotten Felicity's POV on it. I thought we might after Donna's comment about how she wasn't opening up, but I guess not. I am really glad someone explicitly stated the breakup was due to the choices Oliver made and I even think it makes perfect sense for LL to have been the one to serve up the Truth Tea. However, I did think that first scene between them was ten levels of awkward and I'll never understand the choice to have her crouch/squat when she uses the Cry. It's not a good look. Did the writers have a bet going to see how many movie references they could add in? I did love the, "Die Hard with bees" line. And, "Bee Arthur!"

Yeah, I don't really get why Felicity is wrong to think Oliver can't change in this respect when he has yet to provide evidence that suggests he can. From her point-of-view, he's 'learned' this lesson several times before, but always defaults to keeping secrets. Why would she believe he can change, at this point?

I'm still trying to catch up on all this, there was porn? What? Why? Was it spam?ETA, nevermind I see your answer, lol

I just really, really want someone who isn't Felicity to lay it all out for Oliver (and the audience). Someone to tell him, "Look, you kept something major from her, this isn't the first time, if you want her back SHOW her you can change." And I don't care who says it at this point. I'd expect Digg to be the one to pile some sense on Oliver, but after the last ep he seems to have caught Oliver's stupid disease. So, if Laurel serves him some Truth Tea and then gives Felicity some positive reinforcement for her decision, I'm fine with that. ETA: I mean, I doubt this will happen, which also makes me bitter. For some reason the writers seem to want both Oliver and Felicity to be justified in their actions (Oliver for lying and Felicity for breaking up with him). However, it seems like they are setting it up so that Oliver will be the one to do something to win her back, which would indicate he was at fault initially. The whole thing is really muddled. I just want it to be over with.

The only part of the break-up from Felicity's side that lost me a bit was when she brought their Arrow work into it at the very end. I can sort of follow the garbled logic, but I wish they had left that stuff out all together. I think it would have been perfectly plausible for her to just have said it was too painful for both of them to keep working together. I also thought it was weird she brought up Lian Yu, but now I'm wondering if him revealing something about his island time will factor into their reconciliation? I do think the break-up was informed by all of Oliver's past decisions to hide things, but even if it had only been this one instance I think Felicity's decision remains a valid one. He chose not share a major life altering thing from her, not the behavior one wants in a spouse. I'm most bitter about the fact that I'm so desperate for Felicity to have someone in her corner at this point, I won't even mind if it's LAUREL.

I'd honestly be surprised if we got to the end of the season and the writers actually remembered the reasoning behind the break-up. Continuity is not their strong point. In the finale Oliver will probably give (yet another) speech about the importance of team work and Felicity will forgive him. Then we'll be like: But that's not really why they broke up . . ? And the writers will be like: *shrug* Oh, who can even remember what happened 6 eps ago? This is close enough right? Cause we just reworked Oliver's speech to the Team from the season 3 finale. People seemed to like it okay.

In my state, we traded getting Good Friday off as a paid holiday so we could have . . . wait for it . . . Confederate Memorial Day off. This year it's on a Tues., so we just have a rando day off in the middle of the week.

But this is exactly what she just did - and her answer was that this behavior was unacceptable to her in her chosen spouse so she broke it off. She says at the end of, "Broken Hearts," that she understands he will always have this urge to respond to big problems by shutting people out and keeping secrets, that this is part of who he is. But Felicity does not want to marry someone who will not be a true partner to her in life, so the only person who needs to do any work here is Oliver. He needs to prove he can be that kind of partner. Felicity isn't willing to bend or give when it comes to this, she took her stand when she gave him the ring back - twice.

I feel like the show has done really good job reflecting the period appropriate attitudes and customs of the time period, especially as it pertains to the institution of slavery, so the absolute out-of-place wrongness of the can-can dancing AT A GOVERNOR'S BALL coupled with BOOBS was so jarring to me I couldn't pay attention to what was happening on the screen. I mean, if they were that hard up to have some 19th century ladies lift their skirts up why not have a party set at a high-class brothel or something? Also, I love including modern music in the show but I didn't get the song chosen for the party scene at all. These kinds of social functions would have been the exact opposite of wild. That's not to say people didn't have wild times, just that they wouldn't have been having them, as depicted, at a Governor's Ball.

But I think what those reviewers are missing is that the snark was used as an in-character way to reveal something about Felicity's emotional state. She is angry and hurt over Oliver's choices and behavior but she tried to put a lid on it and move forward with her life, including returning to Team Arrow business. Unfortunately, the lid started to crack almost immediately, the anger and hurt started to leak out and by the end of the episode she realized she couldn't go back to the Team because, this time, the hurt was too great. I thought it was actually a nice bit of subtle characterization on the part of the writers. Tbh, I was glad Felicity got to show a bit of anger towards Oliver. I was disappointed we didn't get to see it when the lying was initially revealed.

Since Felicity isn't the type to bottle up her emotions, I tend to see the snarky asides as little bursts of feeling that leak out when she tries to keep things contained. I honestly don't get the criticism for it in some of these reviews. Is she not supposed to show any emotion, or even have a character flaw? She didn't even say anything particularly bad or cruel?

Going into this episode I didn't want Felicity to quit the team, but about half-way through I was ready for her to flip them all the bird and peace out. They were awful to her, especially Digg with all that, "she'll come around" crap. [Edited by mod because how part of the fandom might hypothetically react to a plot point is fan talk.] I'm glad she broke it off for good, but I was a little confused with her speech at the end. I was with her until she started talking about how the vigilante stuff factored in. Was she saying that him being the Arrow meant he'd always "go it alone" and that's why they couldn't be together? Cause that feels like it came out of nowhere and also makes no sense. Him lying had nothing to do with Arrow stuff.

He forgets to cancel the venue, but she remembers to uninvite the guests. That's why no one is there, lol.

Sorry, I think we will have to agree to disagree as I don't consider the majority of male characters you have listed to be main characters. And I don't really think villains count since MY main issue is how the show kills off the female protagonists it's had since season 2, often in ways that turns these typically strong characters into victims. It doesn't matter what a percentage of whatever is, what matters to me is that I've watched a bunch of female characters who were strong and awesome and on the 'right' side (Shado, Sara (x 3!), Moira, Thea and Felicity) be either killed violently or suffer serious lasting injury when the same cannot be said for the male protagonists on the show. I mean, Roy had to get gone but he drove off into a new life. And it ends up being compounded by the fact that these deaths and injuries are used to propel the male character's story. Maybe that doesn't bear out in percentage points, but that's how it feels to me after watching this show for the last several seasons. I hope they don't do the same thing to LL, and if someone had to go I'm glad it is her, I just can't help that losing another female character makes me uncomfortable.

I have a smidge of hope for the next ep because sometimes after the big 'Event' eps, Arrow gives us a character focused ep that ends up being really good. I'm thinking of 3x10, 3x16 and 4x11. Maybe this will follow that pattern. Even if it is full of Cupid (ugh) and fake wedding shenanigans (double-ugh). I'm still not watching until I read reactions to it though, I'm on a pretty thin line wrt continuing to watch at all (skipped the last 2 - 3 eps before the break - though I watched Felicity bits on YouTube) so I've been trying to avoid seeing stuff that will induce enough rage to make me drop it for good. I don't want to, I've fanned hard for this show since early season 2, but I'm finding it really difficult to care about Oliver thanks to the hospital ditching and BM lying. I'm also not sure how I feel about LL being in the grave. Don't get me wrong, I'm ecstatic she'll be gone, but I can't help think it's super gross of the writers to kill off yet another female character. It's just kind of ridiculous at this point. Why couldn't she just move away or something?

To clarify, when I was comparing Arrow and DD I was specifically referring to the way the writing differed when addressing some of the same 'vigilante life' themes. I still haven't really connected to Matt as a character, or a hero, the way I did Oliver. Tbh, I think I connected more with the Punisher than DD (not sure what that says about me). I do like Karen a lot though. I also found season 1 of DD pretty slow, but I think season 2 has improved on that so far.

I'm also enjoying Daredevil's new season so far. It's interesting that both Arrow and DD cover a lot of the same ground thematically, but Arrow feels like it was written in crayons and DD like its written in a HQ fountain pen with bonus calligraphy. Tbh, it just makes me that much more disappointed in Arrow. The framework is often there for some great stories to explore, but they whiff it on the execution every time.

Another great episode, although I was a bit bored by the stuff with Meloni's character this time around. I think they are doing a really great job sprinkling in the history with the action/drama. The smoking scene with all the slaveholders gabbing and discussing the value produced when enslaved children were born was a very accurate representation of how these men often thought of their enslaved workers - as 'things,' and even as investments to increase their wealth over time. I once read a diary where a slaveholder considered purchasing a group of new slaves, not because he needed the help at the time, but because he could see that in 5-10 years their value would have increased enough that he could turn a profit on them. Awful to know that is how some of these people viewed other human beings, but it's also helped me understand some of the thought process that went into perpetuating such a horrible institution for so long. The sex scene between the slaveholder (I cannot remember the family's name) and Rosalee's mother was also well done. On the surface she seems saucy and in control, and then the shot of her face over his shoulder and you understand how terrified she actually was - very well acted. The scene where Noah had to strip was a great moment to show some of the indignities faced by the enslaved, but I also wanted to be like, "Thank you, writers!" Cause, well . . . Damn. And Noah + Rosalee = 4EVA Although, I will say her line at the end about reclaiming the story felt out-of-place to me. Not the sentiment necessarily, just the way it was worded. Felt too modern. Also, some of the costuming and hair choices, mostly on the slaveholding family, are bugging me. Why get so much other stuff right and then not that stuff?

White southern women married to slaveholders were often left 'in charge' while their husbands were away. Depending on how much other land the family owned this could even be for long or frequent stretches of time. So, they were absolutely a part of the 'system.' Where I'm from, for a period a time, one of the largest slaveholders in my state was a woman who ran her family's plantation after her father, brothers and husband all died. And judging by her diary entries, she didn't exactly hold 'enlightened' views about race. I really enjoyed this show and am looking forward to more. I was genuinely surprised by the reveal of the brothers and that Meloni's character was actually a bad guy - although I'm wondering if he was pressed into it by the need for money after his horses died. I mean, still awful, though. Also, it feels a bit wrong to 'ship' characters on a show dealing with such an important topic, but Noah + Rosalee = *fans self* I am totally on board with depicting the slaveowners as just straight-up horrible people. I'm from the South, but it has benefitted from 100 + years of the 'sympathetic' edit when it comes to popular media (books, film, art, etc.) related to this time period. It's about time we started to see that change.