Chalby

Same here. I am really rooting for Madison to go out and become something great in life. I think Madison is so much brighter - beyond her family's ability to even comprehend. When Kody talks about her being far away from his 'protection' I have to shake my head. This coming from the guy who said your hormones escape through your mouth while kissing.. I have to give kudos to Madison for not rolling her eyes or saying anything in response to the adults' idiotic "words of wisdom". And the Browns really have to stop their lip synching dances - they look so absurd. And as Madison pointed out - the song had nothing to do with graduating.

I know that Meri has said she was raised in a polygamist family. I think she would be happier with monogamy as well, but I think she hangs in there because despite what the other wives say, want, or do, she is the only 'real' wife. She has the top rung of the hierarchy. I do wish she would find herself a flirtation. I don't mean an affair, but a man who compliments her and flirts with her so she has some fun . Kody is clearly not interested, and really... who want want to even go near Kody? Eww

My WTF was with Kody's whole spiel about modesty, class, etc. This coming from a man who dresses slovenly (and with a ponytail)! I agree that none of the sister wives dress very well. (I do think Janelle is beautiful and wish she would dress up more.) And when Kody goes on and on about the fashion industry's attitude towards sexualizing women... well, I'm sorry but isn't he sending a clear message to Mykelti that her mother wasn't valued enough for monogamy? He needed more wives/women to have his kids. If that isn't 'sexualizing' women, what is?

Good point. I have clearly missed some shows.

Yes, you have summed it up very well. His being in the USA is a result of 'picking up women" yet I almost get the impression that he is disgusted by (what he sees as) loose morals. I know he a has an agenda, I just don't know what it is. I figure he would prefer to work here because working three jobs at his home would probably be equivalent to the pay of one job here. I would love to be a fly on the wall to find out what the real deal is. She seems intent on having a man to support her and her girls.

I think Mohamed and Danielle have everything worked out. She knows he is not interested in her, sexually, but she's willing to stay married to him if it means she can say she has him for a husband. He doesn't strike me as someone who interested in picking up women - I truly think he just wants to work.

I think Mohamed tells 'his' truth. He's not said anything outrageous from what I hear. He hates that he can't work - that is refreshing to hear because I know many people who would prefer not to work. If Mohamed wants to work three jobs, and help Danielle with her girls, what's the problem?

I remember that. He was upset on the phone and saying this was all her idea. She talked him into coming (and she's the one who proposed marriage) and he was panicking.

Does anyone else notice that when Anna and Josh are being filmed together, she looks at him as though the sun rises and sets with him. Absolute adoration is in her eyes. That's pretty impressive (or is it?) after 3 kids and 6 years of marriage.

I feel sorry for Josh and his family because he is the expected breadwinner, and I get the feeling that he has never been that 'bright'. I don't know how well he will do in an education setting.

Her Mom's last name was Duggar when she had Amy. Perhaps she chose to put that on the birth certificate since Amy's father hadn't married her. Legally, she can use any name so long as she's not trying to deceive anyone.

Like many others, it bothers me that Jim Bob announces, "You may kiss the bride". There's such a heavy air of ownership/ or viewing the girls as chattel. He didn't invest the same amount of physical control over Josh and Anna's wedding. And although I appreciate Ben asking Jim Bob for his daughter's hand in marriage, I get the distinct impression that if Jim Bob wasn't keen on the suitor, the girls wouldn't be marrying, period. Is there such a thing as free will for these girls?

I do not like how Jim-Bob continues to call the shots after his children are married off. If it's a 'patriarch' style family, I could see jim-Bob insisting on having a say in his sons' decisions, even after marriage. But he also insists on calling the shots after his daughter's are paired off. There's no getting rid of this man. This observation is off-topic, but I still need to make an observation. I was so incensed at the Duggars' flippant attitude about arriving late - or "Duggar-time" as they laughingly dismissed it - to help Josh and Anna get set up in their new home. When a young family is waiting on furniture. including children's beds, how dare Jim-Bob laugh it off and say they wanted to continue visiting the Bates? At least Anna is good at blindly smiling through all of her in-laws' insensitivity. Any psychologist will tell you that people who insist on arriving late to functions are pointedly telling you that you are not important to their daily agenda.

Someone wrote... "...The book is controversial because several kids have died by parents saying they followed the Pearl's techniques...." [snip] Personally, I want more details [snip] (such as) "...according to Aug 2014 google , there was a family in Macon, Georgia, (or wherever) who was found guilty..." That is far more responsible and direct. I do not agree with Duggar's child-rearing because I feel it falls more on the sisters' shoulders to raise Michelle's and Jim-Bob's kids, and especially since these girls were never given a choice in the matter. Marriage and raising a family should not be the only 'career choice'. As well, judging by the television series', Michelle is very naive and ignorant of many worldly issues and I question her ability to teach/instruct children beyond grade 7. Mimionthebeach - I LOVE your name/handle/avatar ! : ) Lol, It brings back fun memories of a great song.

I have to add a bit to the comments about Will liking cars and Zoey liking fashion. I learned that the one 'girl' gift that I bought all three of my sons, knowing from brother experience it would be a hit was... "Easy Bake Oven". I bet Will would love it, too. Of course my boys had most of the recipe packets eaten within the first three days. lol

Limelight said: "...It's funny because I usually don't like bikinis but I liked the one Jen was wearing, it was more sporty than sexy..." I agree, and wow, for a 40 year old, Jen looked awesome. You can tell she takes care of herself. I would love to see some footage of Nanny Kate with Zoey and Will. I bet the kids don't give Kate any trouble as she has the speed and objectivity to be quick and consistently firm with them. I hope they keep her employed.

Re: Jen looking as though she has 'aged'. I have watched a couple of my friends age dramatically as they were going through chemo. That's a harsh road to climb. I hope Jen spoils herself with spa visits to celebrate her remission.

TeeVee said "...That coupled with the Klein's materialistic and shallow approach to living large, is so very unrelateable for me. The kids being so little and cute should not be sold as entertainment...." I don't know if I agree with you, TeeVee. I love this show the most of all the reality fare that's out there. I find Bill and Jen aren't 'selling" their kids, as they are trying to teach us lessons and help explain their way of life. They also show how 'regular' they are despite their differences. Zoey and Will have allowed me a chance to be a bystander for overseas adoptions, as well as for prepping kids for people going into the hospital. It's been exceptionally interesting.

Thank you Honey and Fostersmom for pointing out that this wasn't Zoey's first swimming lesson. I also think that because she was aware when the instructor would say 'blow bubbles", etc., and she knew exactly what he expected. Plus, she could be quiet while doing that, only to start wailing again. Another time, I noticed Jen said to (her father?) oh she's going to scream about that, before Zoey even did an activity. So she has already, openly, identified Zoey as a screamer. And with regards to the doctor - someone mentioned to try role playing to help Zoey. Well, she role played every day while Jen had cancer so she must have been used to being around a doctor. I guess I just don't understand the screaming. There's no need for it and she should learn to use her words.

"I ... would be embarrassed to see a post of mine that required 3 "page down" clicks to ignore." Walnutqueen, when I read this in your post, I totally agreed. But then I HAD to go ahead and finally post, and sure enough, it took 3 pages ; ). So I guess I can't shut up either. I am so appreciative of the posters for this forum, not only does everyone write impressive posts/opinions, but they have also been more than kind to me. Merry Christmas, everyone!

Part Three, sorry gang.... Lastly, the other battle I would choose is with regards to Zoey’s screaming. When I heard Zoey, sitting on Jen’s lap while the doctor looked her over, bellowing that ear-splitting, I'm-Back-in-India caterwaul, I swear my toes curled up! Zoey is not in any kind of pain, nor distress, so there's no need for that behaviour. AARGH, And once again, there's Jen reinforcing that ridiculous screaming by talking nonstop throughout the wailing. Jen's cooing, “Yes, I know honey. Yes, Zoey, I’m sorry, Zoey. I know this is new, Zoey. Oh, you don’t like doctors, do you, Zoey? Oh, we're almost done, sweetie. Good girl.That's right. You're such a good girl." Ahem, sorry Jen, but she's not behaving like a good girl, at all - be it at swimming or at the doctor's. Needles, etc. I understand a child's hysteria, but the Dr. did nothing that was invasive. The screaming was unnecessary, and Zoey is clever enough to recognize it makes her parents very uncomfortable, to the point that they rush to end the situation or session. Jen needs to firmly, and quietly, direct Zoey. IE: “That’s enough, Zoey. Stop screaming, and use your indoor voice and words.” THEN Jen needs to be QUIET. She must NOT utter a single word to Zoey until Zoey starts interacting properly. The same goes for pool behaviour. There was no need for Zoey to scream like that. Children's behave inappropriately because it meets a need. They will continue the negative behaviour until their need is met. When Zoey is faced with something new, she knows if she screams like a banshee, she will be rocked, fed, cuddled, coddled, and cooed to. Oh and I have seen her go limp if she doesn't want to go somewhere, and I've noticed that Jen is unable to physically manage her. This is when the Bill and Jen need to identify the negative behaviour and withdraw all of their verbal and physical attention. No words, no cuddling, no monologues. Any and all interactions should stop as soon as Zoey goes limp or collapses, or begins to scream. All adults near her need to withdraw completely from Zoey. This will annoy her into screaming even louder, but as soon as she is heard calmly speaking, or expressing an observation, or need, then quickly Coddle, Cuddle, and Coo, to reinforce her appropriate communication and behaviour. Above all else, remember, to NEVER talk, interact, or do a monologue during Will's or Zoey's acting out/ tantrum. As well, the adults both need to QUIT TALKING to the kids and to each other. I predict within several days of using consistent discipline, and focusing only on a couple of 'battles', Will and Zoey will understand and abide by the household boundaries and expectations,. Thanks to The LIttle Couple - I love reading this Forum. An aside - Does anyone else notice that Jen has an annoying nervous tic? She laughs after everything - even if she's trying to discipline. And she has another verbal tic where she mades her conversation sound like she requesting approval or consensus. "Do you need a time out, Will?" "Are you going to give me that bag?" LOL, I am so glad I am not on television. I would be ripped to shreds. Anyhow, Jen needs to remember not to ask kids permission to consequence them.Ha Ha :)

Part Two Will’s speech does seem to be improving and I think it’s because the Arnolds were so quick to diagnose the ear problems. As well, Jen is on top of any additional help and therapy for her kids, which highlights Will’s laziness. Will loves to participate in activities IF he controls the situation; dictates who will participate; gets a treat/food for participating; and can lie down or sprawl while interacting. (Will is so clever when it comes to manipulating situations - Jen and Bill are way too soft when they laugh off discipline.) Will's fabulous and focused for little snippets of learning time, but as soon as Will feels as though there’s effort involved, or he may have to try a little harder, he’ll sprawl across the table top; or on his dad’s back.; or across the floor / couch/ equipment’s that's lying there. The goldfish incident lol … I wish Jen would realize that we like her and Bill a lot! And we support whatever actions, or discipline she introduces. Right now there isn’t any consistent discipline – and as soon as a child acts up, Jen and Bill look at each; then shrug and laugh; then the child continues with prior behaviour. The viewers can read their minds Jen looks saying in her mind, "Oh Bill, the camera's here, and you know Will will flip out, grab the bag and run away if I try to take it". Bill responds telepathically, "Yep, and my back's hurting. so let's just let him have the bag". The key to successful discipline is CONSISTENCY.. If I were Jen, I would pick my battles ahead of time. So, I would choose the food ‘battle’ for Will and I would ensure Will knows I am Strictly- By-The-Rules- Mom. No exceptions. Then the kids would realize that demanding, ordering, grabbing, taking, hitting, throwing, screaming, going limp, going stiff etc., will not change the rules that they are not allowed snacks outside of what I prepare for them. I saw Jen hesitate when Will refused to hand over the goldfish bag, and I realized in that moment Jen was actually worried as she cannot physically handle Will. He’s as big as she is, and he is far heavier. Once he jumped into her lap[ and knocked her right over... add to that her still recovering from cancer – she is unable to physically stop him. Soon he will realize he can just shove her aside and she’ll collapse like a deck of cards. Before he understands that scenario, it’s imperative that she choose her battles now. And get him on board before she loses all control.

I am a first time poster, and I have soooo much to say, I have broken this into three posts. I would really like to hear if there’s anyone out there who follows my thinking (and please share areas we differ, or what you would do if your were the Arnolds). I love this show, and I appreciate the Arnolds letting me peer into their home. Like the many of you, I am going to post observations that I would never say to Jen’s and Bill’s face. As I am not in a position to ‘cast the first stone’. Some details about me: My observations come from being a primary teacher for15 years, 7 years as a child/family counsellor, and being a mother of 4 – the youngest turns 19 in January! Woo Hoo!!. Oops, I digress… Potty-training: Daycares will look after children in diapers whereas preschools will not. You can tell Will & Zoey are in diapers by the way their pants fit. (Otnerwise they have some seriously, weird-looking bottoms. They are huge, bumpy and lumpy. Lord help them if they have major cellulite already! Heh) There’s no reason why, between the three adults, they can’t potty-trained the kids for school. Zoey is 3 and Will’s turning 5. I am assuming that the kids are merely little people, and not hugely,’ mentally delayed’. Little people’s general physical progression is like ours, so they would reach the same development milestones as our kids. They just need an appropriate sized potty. My first-born was the most reluctant when it came to potty-training, and I wasn’t successful until he was 3 years and 3 months. Let me tell you the diapers were disgusting. Fortunately my others weren’t as attached to their diapers. My son was the latest (for potty) of everyone I knew. If there are major problems with Will or Zoey, then the Arnolds are not sharing what’s really going (with regards to the kids' cognitive ability.) And that’s okay, but let’s not keep saying over and over how quick, empathetic, and bright Will is. We viewers can see that, but sometimes I feel like Jen and Bill are trying to convince themselves, rather than us, of Will's progress. I know the kids are outgoing, quick, bright, attentive UNLESS there’s food in the room.