Woebegone

Lito is probably the best at compartmentalizing the different parts of his life, so it isn't surprising that he's essentially been able shut it out and not acknowledge, even to himself, that anything is happening.

Haha, I wouldn't have recommended seeing the whole thing just for him, but it is a pretty funny show. I had already seen a few episodes of it before, but not specifically the one he's in. I knew a Belgian once who spoke English with a British accent because he watched a lot of British tv. I'm from Canada so I'm not really an expert here, but my understanding is that Floridians don't have any particular accent. Kevin doesn't have any noticeable accent at all, while KDM has a light Southern accent. If you watch some of his older videos, however, you might notice that his accent used to be a lot stronger. I think the part was supposed to be kind of a trophy husband to the other guy, so maximum eye candy definitely fits. I don't think his real life sexuality factored in, other than it wouldn't be a barrier to his getting the part the way it would be for other roles.

I'm actually kind of surprised at this. Wasn't he in the short-lived (ok, it was a flop) off-Broadway musical Lucky Guy, about a Nashville country singer? And although I didn't watch any of them, I know that some enterprising folks have vids up on YouTube. Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if Kevin had made a It Gets Better video, although as a songwriter, it's hard to imagine that anyone in the general public would know who he is (although I guess you could say the same thing about Broadway actors too?). On the other hand, Kevin is nice and all, but he's nowhere near as adorable as the guy in that video. I had actually seen him in that Good Wife episode years ago, but didn't know who he was at the time. I remember thinking that the casting director had probably picked the most square-jawed and traditionally good-looking guy who auditioned just to go against the gay stereotype. His High Maintenance guest stint was pretty funny to me because that was probably the closest he came to playing himself without actually playing himself. Also, does anyone else find it ironic that a guy with a natural southern accent isn't using it on Nashville of all shows?

Haha, it wasn't that tall an order! His screentime on Nashville is probably more than the rest of his tv appearances combined! But I should probably shut the rest of this conversation over to the Cast in Other Roles thread before I get too off-topic. Back to the Finale: I agree with those who said that having Beverly die from a botched donation sends a terrible message to viewers, but on the other hand, I'm not sure what else they can do. They can't kill Deacon and after that cliffhanger, I think the audience will be terribly disappointed if they don't kill someone.

Yep. He's the gay Caleb. Actually, when I was looking him up, I noticed he was on the Good Wife as the partner of a gay defendant. He was also on High Maintenance as a gay actor who plays Fiyero on Broadway (a coincidence, I'm sure). He plays straight a lot on Broadway, but tv is a different story.

Fair enough. I went too far. That's not what I said though and I think you managed to mash what I did say with things other people said. I actually said that it was reasonable that she would be fooled and manipulated by Will and Jeff, given the context. However, what I had very little sympathy for was when she actually forgave and stayed with Jeff at the end, and therefore tacitly condoned everything he had done to her. And I don't accept the argument that she was manipulated into that too, because as you pointed out, she spent the better part of the episode cleverly debunking all of Jeff's lies and getting around his attempt to keep her ignorant. And then she came at him and his car with a golf club. And so you see, I'm actually saying the opposite. I actually think she's quite sly and thoughtful (I mean, this is the same woman who, on finding out her husband is gay, decided to blackmail him and his manager to further her career instead of asking for a divorce like a normal person) and I think she's decided that letting him put her under his thumb is ok if it means he'll help her get ahead.

I like how you never call him Kevin. It's like he's your Oliver Hudson! I'm going to give the writers the benefit of the doubt with Jeff/Layla and I'm going to believe that they intended for us to be as disgusted as we are. But my main reservation is how unsympathetic they've made Layla in order to get us here. I mean, when Will was using her, you could understand why, given the circumstances, she would fall for it. And even when Jeff got her kicked off Jade's tour, you could kind of understand how she'd fall for that too. But when she finds out about it and still forgives him? That was the moment when I just felt like I couldn't care anymore. She deserves what she gets.

She's an adult. She shouldn't need someone to look out for her. Her whole crappy "I need someone else to tell me what to do" attitude of hers is what keeps getting her into this mess. Sure Juliette has a lot of people looking out for her, but I think she would be ok without them too. Will definitely used her though. I think, in a way, he justified it to himself by thinking that he could grow to love her and that it was good for both their careers. I think seeing how much it hurt her ultimately led to him trying to do the right thing by her with the divorce. No real argument here except I would say the reason he is boring is not the actor but because he's a placeholder to begin with. With Kiley, there is some depth to her because the writers wanted her to be totally messed up, and yet still sympathetic enough that Gunnar wouldn't just abandon her. But with Caleb, the writers weren't so imaginative. They wanted him to be a generic good guy who still isn't good enough because he isn't Gunnar and that's not really enough. Kevin suffers from a similar lack of depth, but at least he isn't just there as an obstacle to prevent, say, Will getting back together with Brent (full disclosure: I thought Brent was badly written and I'm glad the writers decided to start over rather than continue that inconsistent mess). I think for Season 4, I'd like him to be a bit more rounded and integrated with the rest of the show, the way Caleb and Sadie are/were. Otherwise, he's just Perfect Gay Boyfriend, and that's not terribly exciting to watch either.

I read at least one article that said his leading role on Scream Queens wasn't going to interfere with his ability to stay on Nashville, but then I hadn't heard the tweets either. Now I'm thinking we might get a few episodes where he shows up as a guest star to wrap up any loose threads regarding him, Luke, and Layla. A shame, really. Jeff's a good villain. Edited to add that I think I find the whole thing with Juliette hinges on how much we can reasonably fault someone for their actions while suffering mental illness. If we accept that PPD is as bad as, say, schizophrenia, would we be as likely to call her a monster? I mean, there is apparently a rare form of PPD called Postpartum Psychosis that actually fits how Juliette is acting...

Yeah, sure, Will could totally go into pop or maybe alt-folk or whatever and be successful. The only issue is that on Nashville, "leaving country music" is pretty much the same as leaving the show, so they won't go there as long as Chris Carmack is a regular. But you're right. If Will is smart, he'll do the talk show route and drum up some publicity that way (Ellen is syndicated, but maybe they could still work in a cameo?). But from interviews, the producers seem to be hinting that he'll spend at least some time falling down before he gets back up. I agree with those who are saying that Luke might cut him loose, which opens the door for him being picked up by Highway 65 later. Do we know if Eric Close is contracted as a regular for Season 4? Because I honestly can't think of what Teddy could be doing from jail that will be worth watching. They really need to write something that makes him part of what is happening. Like, I know putting him, Rayna, and Deacon in a love triangle would be awfully soapy (or maybe just awful), but at least there'd be some real stakes there, you know?

If Sadie/Layla comparisons means that Layla can shoot Jeff dead next season, I'm all for it. It's hard to know just what the writers are thinking with their storylines. Even with interviews, they'll sometimes play dumb so as not to show their hand. I think I read an interview where they mentioned Will having to deal with the consequences of coming out next season. I think they way they've painted the environment to be fairly true to life (while having no issues with it personally, Luke more or less admitted in front of Jeff that he wouldn't have signed Will if he had known in advance that he was gay. Business is business.) so I wouldn't be surprised to see an unemployed Will next season. But this isn't necessarily the end of his story. No one said Nashville is only about the successful country stars. I think there is a lot of dramatic potential in seeing Will deal with having all these doors close on him and struggling with just being Kevin's househusband.

The problem with this finale is that it wasn't a finale. I think the writers were fairly sure they were coming back because literally nothing was resolved other than Will's coming out (which I still think felt rushed). Well, at least we have a pretty good idea about who's coming back next season -- everyone. Yes, even Deacon. I think only one show has ever killed a character whose life was in the balance in a season finale cliffhanger (Everwood) and I somehow doubt that the Nashville writers will go there. Edited to add that I still like Juliette because at least she made the episode more interesting. The degree to which the writers were willing to make her utterly unsympathetic is probably one of the bigger risks the writers have taken.

Really, they're dragging the cancer story to next season? Also being dragged out, the fiction that they will really let Gunnar go back to Texas with Kiley or Scarlett and Caleb are actually a thing. Will's coming out felt forced. Like, of all the things that probably needed more time to develop, this was probably it. He spends the entire show retreating deeper into the closet, then changes his mind in the last minute? Okaaaay. I've lost all respect for Layla. She finds out the truth and she still stays with Jeff? Ugh.

What I find super weird is that they DID write him out. Jeff fired him and you'd think that would be the end, but then he comes back a few episodes later, and this time around there's no explanation when he vanishes. It's as if the writers changed their minds about writing him out and then changed their minds again. This is kind of what I meant. All other things being equal, it's definitely possible that Kevin's as into Will as Will is into him, but the reality is that they're on different footing. Kevin is probably trying to keep himself from being too invested and while he seemed to loosen up during their vacation, you can see that by the end of the episode, his guard is back up. I'd like Kevin to be back next season too, but it's hard to see how far ahead the writers could have planned when they didn't even know if the show was being renewed. At the very least, they couldn't have already negotiated future guest appearances, which means that if KDM found conflicting work in the interim, he couldn't come back no matter what happens in the season finale. But yeah, if we're going back the writing alone, they do seem to be building towards something. The writers never really seemed to know what to do with Brent which also strangely paralleled how Will felt about him too. But with Kevin they do seem to have an endgame (or at least a midgame) in mind.

But didn't he? Last I recall, he was Layla's manager, then.. nothing. My personal theory is that he witnessed a mob hit and is in FBI witness protection under an assumed identity in Oregon. I don't think Luke knows or else he might have been more hesitant about hitching his wagon to Will's. I think at the very least he would have tried to have a frank conversation with Will about it. You're right that it hasn't actually happened so we don't know what the result will be, but these are business people with a lot of money at stake. They don't like putting that money at risk. At the same time , I don't think Luke is bigoted or will have a particularly bad reaction. I think at most he'll be upset that Will (and Kevin who, let's not forget, he's also friends with) hid this from him. As for the off-screen reason to think Kevin will be back in S4: That said, I do have some moderate hope that he'll return. I think the writers probably realize by now that we're looking for something else besides a repeat of what happened to Brent. I think that, considering how Will seems much more into Kevin than vice versa, that he wouldn't be happy to give that up just to go back into the closet.

I think the reason why Kevin (and Brent) work better as love interests is because they don't have an OTP hanging over their heads like a sword of Damocles. In Kylie's case, she's damaged goods and so was meant to be filler from the start. But Caleb is actually a decent guy and the only reason he doesn't work either is because Scarlett is "meant to be" with Gunnar.

Fair enough. Thinking about it more, I guess there could be some underlying psychosis where she thinks she wouldn't be a good mom, so she's focusing on the one thing she thinks she can be good at, which is a country music star. I'm glad that it's looking like we'll see some kind of denouement to Deacon's cancer by next episode. While I think it's been a good arc for the characters involved, I think it might be a little too drawn out by this point. This Layla and Jeff thing is terrible. Why is she constantly being victimized by men? I'm not sure how they'll play with Luke finding out. Those photos weren't that incriminating -- it just looked like two guys camping -- so it's possible that Luke might think it was part of a songwriting retreat for the album. Then again, is Luke really that stupid? Like I said earlier, I don't think the tabloid will print the photos, but I do think that it will force Will to make a choice... and they've just raised the stakes by bringing his dad back.

The Juliette storyline was super cringe-worthy. I don't think it's just post-partum -- she's just not meant to be a mother. Not all women are. I think they're better off hiring a full time nanny and letting her focus on her career, rather than shoehorn her into a role she has no interest in. I am bored by the Scarlette and Gunnar relationship. I think it's pretty obvious by this point that their current partners are temporary and I can't believe they're still dragging this out like we don't all know where this is going. I don't think I'll miss Teddy if they kill him off this season. I'm not really sure how his corrupt politician/FBI sting storyline fits into a show about country musicians. Will has never been the brightest bulb so I'm not surprised he let his father talk his way back into his life. Kevin is right of course, and can I say how glad I am that they didn't make this about him not wanting to hide the relationship for the sake of Will's career. He's in the industry as much as Will is and they've written him to be too smart to not realise what he was signing up for.

I predict that the tabloid issue gets resolved quickly (they can always just say they were working on the album) but that Will gets pressured to break it off with Kevin or else it will just happen again. Will caves, but Kevin beats him to it because he doesn't want to be the guy Will gives up his career for.

I think this is why we don't see a lot of gay actors play gay roles. The kind of public scrutiny that comes to bear forces them to make a choice between the truth and potentially hurting their career. Straight actors aren't faced with this dilemma and it's incredibly unfair. If Jack Falahee is straight, then kudos to him for refusing to say, even if that means that people will think he's gay anyways.

I actually think Rebecca is OK and it's Wes that's the problem. Alfred Enoch seemed like a natural in the pilot, but hasn't shown much range since. His line readings are consistently weak and one-note, even though I think he has a very expressive physicality. Out of the non-Annalise characters, it's also Michaela, Asher, and Connor that I'm rooting for. I think it's less scripting than the fact they are good enough actors to make you like even unlikeable characters. After this episode I'm actually thinking that Wes is the one who killed Sam. Think about it -- if Rebecca's confession is a red herring, then who is she trying to protect? She doesn't care enough about any of the others to make that kind of sacrifice.

Well, we're only seeing snippets of what is probably a several hours long lecture. You can argue that she is calling on other students, but we only see the Keating 5 respond because they're part of the story. Also, Michaela did her thing where she just stands up without being called on. I thought this was a pretty solid episode. We didn't delve too deeply into Asher, but McGorry got more screentime and show a somewhat broader range of emotions. I think what I liked most is that we got to see the five students interact with each other more outside of the Flashforwards. It was amusing to see their pre-crisis group dynamic. When Wes opened the door shirtless, I realised that the weird sexual tension between him and Annalise wasn't accidental. Also the case of the week didn't feel like so much of a third wheel this time, so that's good too.

I really like this show too. I think it just has some really good characters -- they're all very complicated and flaws, but still completely sympathetic. There's really not one that I don't root for in some way. I still worry that the female characters are getting short shrift though. Take Christina, for example. It feels like she has no control over her destiny; it's turning into a fight between her son and her pimp, but she herself is just a bystander, watching from the sidelines. I would like her to be more like Lisa, who made it clear that Alvey didn't "steal" her from Ryan, like she was a possession being passed along. She chose Ryan back in the day and now she's choosing Alvey. She's the one making the call. Did anyone notice that Jay was all, "I'd never let Ryan near you" to Lisa at the bar, but back in episode one, he was all, "Alvey stole Lisa from you" to Ryan? I guess it doesn't much matter to Jay as long as Alvey is the bad guy, eh? This episode had a lot of people trying to help someone else less fortunate. We had Jay trying to help his mom; Alvey trying to help Ryan; and Ryan trying to help his roommate.

Ah I didn't know that about Darren. I always thought it was interviewers who brought it up first and I haven't really read his interviews before or after the show so I stand corrected. But generally speaking, straight actors have nothing to gain by outing themselves in interviews. Like, Caracas said, it comes off as defensive and, at the end of the day, people are going to find out anyways, so why be the bearer of bad news? And yeah, it's a lot harder for a gay actor to play gay if they're not yet comfortable being out of the closet, because it's almost forced on them if they do.

A lot of the hipper, straight allies have gotten the memo that it's crass to point out their sexuality in interviews, so Falahee's silence on the issue doesn't mean anything either way. Darren Criss, for example, didn't say anything until he was "outed" by interviewers. Like a lot of people, I'm tired of Connor's sexuality being the only way he investigates. I do think he's one of the more layered characters on the show, but sometimes it's all he does in the entire episode.