Smad

It certainly would make for a nice scene if they marry Rory off in the revival. Have Rory mention that she always thought her grandpa would do that and now that he's gone she won't accept a substitute and walk down the aisle alone.

Well I'm guessing ASP would use the same crappy excuse LG always used when it came to L/C. Something about wishfullfillment and nuclear family. The show was never set in reality after all. I don't think we will ever really know because ASP was famous for stringing everyone along, especially with regards to L/L. If she now comes out and says she actually always prefered L/C she is making a liar out of herself and would lose most of her cred. Not that she has any left where I'm concerned. I'll never believe anything the woman says ever again. That ship kinda sailed back when the show was still airing. As for chemistry, it makes me wonder about something. I can totally admit that LG and DS have nice chemistry. But why is that enough for people? Is this just an American thing or something? Why are people rooting for a pair just because they have chemistry or because they look hot together on screen. Is that honestly all it takes? If you like Lorelai why on earth would you support her being together with this waste of human genes named Christopher. Because they have chemistry? Blech, that's not a reason.

Ok first things first. I just don't buy the SP/LG don't get along at all crap anymore. People need to come up with some proof for that please. They looked more than fine to me at ATX and I didn't think anyone was faking it. Coupled with the fact that SP mentioned in the GG podcast that out of all the cast he has seen LG the most since the show ended, well something tells me those rumors are just that....rumors. Considering that for me Lorelai and Luke had plenty chemistry before they got together there is no reason for that to change (because LG/SP not getting along applies there as well) once they actually put them together. The only way for that to completely change is by the actors being directed that way. I can't be the only one who saw the deliberate attempt of ASP to sabotage that couple from the get go. ASP went out of her way to avoid scenes where the actors could possibly show their chemistry. Throw in uneccessary drama, character assasinations, soap tropes, deliberate ooc miscommunication and all the other tricks she pulled it's no wonder L/L kinda failed as a couple. She didn't even give them a chance because it wasn't what she wanted. We all know how ASP gets when someone forces her to do something she doesn't want. She acts the petulant child that she is and acts out.

LOL. Wth is going on? So they got married after IWTB yet they didn't between the end of the show and IWTB? And at some point they seperated but didn't divorce (since he said wife not ex-wife)? And Scully is getting cozy with another guy? If CC's goal was to reset their relationship to prior of them hooking up so as to take the focus off the romance he's doing a piss poor job. This is just crazy. I find THIS review interesting. And here is another one who felt MEH about it.

Whaaaa? So Scully stood by Mulder through 'Demons' type behaviour and all the other batshit crazy phases he went through but a bout of depression is too much to handle for her. Who ARE these people? They sure aren't Mulder and Scully. And CC seriously expects me to believe Mulder never went through a depression phase when living in isolaton (IWTB). Well they have split up for lamer reasons before, see IWTB. But my God CC you should leave the writing of their relationship to anyone other than you (and Spotniz). Why did CC never go to therapy himself in all these years where some professional might have been able to help him overcome his serious and obvious issues with adult relationships.

I actually understood Scully for the most part in the movie. The whole William thing completely broke her. And I think being on the run and then settling down and being able to breath and reflect for the first time in years probably didn't help the situation. That part of her character I understood. Where I had problems with her characterization ties in directly with the fact that CC completely ignored how the show ended and most things in the movie don't make sense as a result. Scully kept talking about the darkness and not wanting any part of it and I literally had a running commentary in my head every time she did: ' What the hell is wrong with you? Come 2012 it's lights out for EVERYONE!!!' So Scully just didn't want any darkness till the world ended? The hell? Just like it made no sense that they would let Mulder anywhere near the FBI. Did CC forget that the FBI and every other governmental agency was run by aliens as the show ended? Last thing they would want is Mulder to get his groove back and try mess up their plans again. Just like apparently Mulder and Scully have made no preperation whatsoever for the upcoming apocalypse. When did they become quitters? I could go on and on about all the crap that didn't make sense in that movie.

Well I'm usually only going to certain boards to read about a show when I'm doing a rewatch. And I don't do that for all shows. And way back when I wasn't big on posting on sites so I usually just lurked. But I did save all stuff I wanted to from TWOP (including X-Files) when I heard it was going to be closed. I think most people wank hard or spin the end of S7 because they are shippers. In order to keep liking Mulder and therefor the ship you really have to do that. And even on TWOP there was hardly anyone in all the years who expressed my sentiments of the biggest Mulder ditch ever. But Mulder hate came easy to me after 2-3 rewatches of the show and as I got older I just couldn't deal with this guys treatment of Scully anymore. I think as I lost my shipper inclinations (I was a HUGE shipper when the show originally aired but I was also a teenager) I was better equipped to see him more clearly and it didn't do the character any favors. When last I watched S8 I hoped it would be revealed that Scully and Doggett hooked up after Mulder was dead and buried. And it was largely because Doggett treated her right. Skinner for the most part did too but the thought of him and Scully squicks me out (too much of a paternal/sibling vibe).

Reading this thread and seeing people go 'poor Mulder' after he comes back from the dead makes me wonder if I'm a horrible person for thinking exactly the opposite. He's a freaking douchbag and has no right to be and he's not getting any sympathy from me whatsoever. I'm ignoring the brain disease crap (didn't exist, lalala I can't hear you) in order to make my point. The way it was portrayed in Requiem showed that up until he stepped into the circle of light with the other abductees he had free will. He made the conscious decision to step into the light because he wanted the experience. I know the bounty hunter would have come for him one way or the other but that's not how it happened. So since Mulder wanted this, why should I feel sorry for him about anything that happens after? I have to admit I'm biased towards Scully (she is my hero) but for me Requiem was the biggest and worst ditch Mulder has done (I know most people would say Demons but for me it's this one). He wanted to be abducted therefor leaving Scully behind and putting her through the same emotional turmoil that he was put through when Samantha was taken from him. Only it's worse in Scully's case because she was having health problems on top of it. We didn't know she was pregnant at that point but she was clearly not feeling well. What if her cancer had returned? Mulder didn't know what the cause was yet he left her anyway. When I saw the S8 2 part premiere for the first time I actually laughed at Mulder being tortured (come on the dentist chair is funny in and of itself) and experimented on because hey...isn't that what you wanted Mulder? Because apparently to you all the reports you have read for years from abductees made the experience sound like a 5 star cruise. So when he screamed Scully's name I was like 'don't you dare scream for her to rescue you'. You willingly left her while she was having health problems and on top of that you want her to rescue your sorry ass? Just enjoy your little vacation, Mulder. And then he is surprised that life went on without him so he behaves like an ass, especially towards Scully and Doggett. Go die again, Mulder.

Well it can't make less sense than in IWTB. It literally took me 2 times watching the movie to get a handle on wth was going on with these two. And it just showed me again that CC shouldn't be allowed to write any XF projects anymore (neither should Spotniz). If Vince was at the helm of any movie or project I would be confident since he understood both characters and their relationship best. But Chris Carter just...urgh. Not to mention that IWTB didn't make any sense whatsover with how the show ended so the revival can't make less sense than that either. Of course it's CC and knowing him he would probably find a way. Seeing that animation further up about Scully and the constant darkness talk encapsulates everything that confused me in the movie (in regards to both story and characterization) in one scene. And he already tried the splitting up in the movie (while not making sense whatsoever). These two have been through abductions, deaths, monsters, dead family members, aliens/military/government trying to kill them and being on the run and had been together apparently since then. And they split up over practically nothing in the movie? Seriously CC? I think I'll wait and see what fans say before I decide to actually watch. After the major disappointment the last Seasons and movie were I don't want anymore crap flung my way. I have for the most part gotten over the disappointment, I don't want to have to start all over again.

I certainly agree that his character development in S7 was the clearest of all the characters and certainly the best they did. Lorelai had non whatsoever, hell Christopher had more development than her. But Luke's development that Season had nothing to do with Lorelai and everything to do with April. Luke changed as a person and he did that so he could be a good father. And that alone assures me that those changes are going to stick. His temper didn't come up much (except with Taylor but who can blame him), he opened himself up to the people around him. When you think about it he actually had a bigger circle of friends and family than outgoing Lorelai. Luke had April, Liz, TJ, Doula, Lane and Zack and so forth. Not bad for a loner. Lorelai had Chris. And he learned that you can't always take things slow, or process one thing at a time only because there's always more than one thing going on in your life and it keeps changing. And what I really loved was that there was no pining. He mourned the relationship early on in the Season and it ended when he watched that movie sitting next to April's hospital bed.

You know I'm pretty sure Kelly has watched the show. I don't know how introspective you can get when you've already had a career long before GG. But she'd clearly watched the show at least (unlike some of the cast). Ever seen the GG Backstage special? That was done during early S5 and Kelly remembered scenes from way back in S1, including some dialogue. I found it interesting when they were doing the 'where is your character now' part at the ATX panel how Lauren totally sidestepped that part.

I just can't feel sorry for him. He admitted at the end that he knew what the situation was going into the relationship and then he had issues every step of the way? Give me a break. This is like someone telling you if you take 5 steps forward you will land in quicksand and die. Then you take those 5 steps, land in the sand and die. And then you complain about the fact that you are dying even though you knew you would? He jumped on a distraught and emotionally fragile woman the night she showed up on his doorstep, then dated her then pushed for marriage. And during all of that he knew exactly where he stood as the rebound. If you know what the situation is going in, don't complain afterwards about it. Just makes you look like a moron and a weasel. I won't even get into the fact that he dragged poor GiGi into this mess. Gotta love his fabulous lack of priorities: Lorelai's pants > emotional welfare of his children. Don't get me started about his 'that diner guy' comment at the party planning. Or his 'just a farmer' comment regarding his man-date with Jackson. Chris should have married Emily, they are 2 peas in a pod.

Well I've already said my piece about ASP and the dichotamy in Lorelai's character when it comes to Chris vs everyone else in the LL thread so I won't repeat myself. But in short, for me ASP is a hack.

That certainly deserves a big fat DUH. Lorelai has never made sense to me when it comes to romance. She said yes to marrying Max I guess because she was swept up in his big flower gesture or because she simply wanted to be married, ironically the same thing she did in S7. Even though the way she ended things was disgusting at least she knew the package was empty if you didn't love the guy. After that and especially once Rory was at Yale I thought they would have her date a few guys (since she completely skipped over that part by becoming a parent so young) and then decide what kind of guy really could be that perfect package for her. I thought that was the point of both Alex and Digger. Alex was very casual and offscreen a lot till he ended up in a ditch. Jason was nice to quip with and have some sex too but clearly that's all she wanted. And then comes the part that confuses me to no end when it comes to Luke. She told the shrink she realized how much she loved Luke because of how much he cared for Rory. I won't even get into how messed up that is and that it proves that Rory is the love of her life and the only person she can ever truly love apparently. And again ironically that is exactly how S7 ended because she gave up on Luke until she found out he organized Rory's Bon Voyage party. Of course it makes one wonder...if her love is dependant on how much a guy cares for Rory why on earth did she ever even look Cristopher's way? Considering that for him at most she was a stepping stone to get to Lorelai or used by him to get to Lorelai. Not that Lorelai ever had enough brainpower to connect those dots of course. She just doesn't make any sense when it comes to romance and what she is looking for in a partner/husband. Any guy would be wise to stay away because she could just change her mind about what she wants tomorrow.

And I never said he was abusive. I don't know why but that's the 'vibe' I got when watching certain scenes. I personally thought it was the weirdest acting/directing choice ever. In a lot of their 'confrontations' you have Chris with a glass of alcohol and Lorelai taking note of that. Why? And that scene in the hospital at the end is when I felt that 'vibe' the strongest because of the way Lauren acted (or was directed) in that scene.

With respect, did you actually watch WBB? Chris gets himself drunk and decided to be his everloving douchbaggy self and attacks Luke until Luke decides to remove himself from the situation. And not once in there is Lorelai a focus of his. And in SS I'm completely with him because Lorelai is disrespecting his wish for space and he is nowehere near angry. Not even close to the same thing. Oh and also in WBB Lorelai actually had the stones to tell the guy who is trying to swing his d*ck around to take a hike, namely Chris.

Reading through the first few pages and how many people see Luke's personality as prone to abusive behavior (I personally don't because I don't count any character development after S4 to mean anything) just reminded me of my UO from the last time I saw S7. Lorelai often acted like an abused wife in her marriage with Chris especially towards the end. She was way too clingy, often too reassuring of whatever Chris did/said so as not to rock the boat, Christopher heaping much pressure on her (dating, marriage, children) and often with a drink during most episodes. If someone was watching the episode where Richard has heart surgery for the first time and had no knowledge of the show I wonder what they would take away from the Chris/Lor scene at the end (and during the many phone calls). You have a woman basically begging her husband to be there and support her. She is relaxed and talkative with everyone there (including Luke) but she constantly makes excuses for her absent husband. Then said husband finally comes and swings his d*ck around telling the guy who has been helpful all day to take a hike. And what does the wife do? She steps right to her husband's side, averts her eyes from the other guy and doesn't say a further word to him. Then she begs her husband to understand that she had nothing to do with the other guy showing up. If I were watching this without any knowledge of the show and characters I would be wondering why this hsow falls into the Dramedy category since one of the main characters seems to be in an abusive marriage.

The Chris shaped plot device had so many problems (way more than the LLD) that left me scratching my head. ASP always wanted to do L/C and her original plan was the end of S2 into S3. Which would have been the ideal time. But she was a moron and didn't secure DS in time. Then she did the S2 finale / S3 premiere as she did and that should have killed L/C right there. Apparently not. Then comes S5 and Wedding Bell Blues which should have eliminated Chris as a romantic possibility FOREVER. Am I supposed to believe that Lorelai is really that dumb that she doesn't understand that when a guy tries to destroy your happiness/relationship he can't possibly be in love with you? The dichotamy in Lorelai's character when it comes to Chris vs everyone else will never make sense to me. And it's the main reason why I don't really ship L/L anymore. Because despite all of Luke's mistakes in S6 (read: character assasination) the Chris thing has been consistant over the whole duration of the show and it made me lose all respect for Lorelai. And I won't ship a couple where I don't respect one of them. Unless it's 2 villains hooking up or something. But I don't think ASP or anyone else actually ever bothered to connect the dots like some viewers did and see the whole picture and how wrong that picture is. Did ASP have the hots for DS or something that she would never let go of wanting to do the L/C thing? I had so much eye rolling going on while watching the ATX panel that I was afraid they would roll right out of my head. Couldn't any of them be freaking honest? ASP talking about bringing L/L together only once they were sure what would come after. Give me a break. We know it was due to network pressure because of ratings dropping like crazy. It most certainly was not what she had planned. And the fact that the only way that ASP could create conflict within the couple was via external roadblocks (Lorelai's parents, Chris and LLD with a giant heaping of character assasinations) clearly shows she had no freaking idea what she was doing. Or she really is that talentless. Lauren Graham suddenly being on the L/L side of things was totally unbelievable as well. Did she and DS have a falling out or something so she jumped ship? She's always been on the L/C side of things with nonsense like 'wishfullfillment' and 'nuclear family'. And I guess because she and DS were good friends and had fun working together. So either her sudden change in preference was because DS wasn't at the reunion, keeping good PR for a possible future GG project or her and DS having a falling out. But it was nonsense to me. Then again I have never taken LG's opinions regarding the show seriously. Like she admitted at ATX (and just like she has done since GG was still airing) she doesn't watch the show. I wonder if she would still hold the same opinions if she actually saw it. And therefore the whole picture.

ASP totally ruined them when she actually put them together and I've never understod why she chose to portray it like she did. I mean the reason why I wanted them together in the first place was because they worked exactly as they were. But it also shows how limited ASP is as a storyteller and how bad it is when a showrunner doesn't allow input from anyone. I've also had the feeling that she sabotaged the whole thing on purpose because the network basically forced her to put them together. I bet if it were up to Amy we would have had to wait till the last episode of the series (if ever). The whole 'no touching' rule confused the hell out of me. When you rewatch the early Seasons Lorelai is constantly touching Luke in some way even if it's just a touch on the arm or swatting his chest. These two were literally each others best friend because they were willing to be open and vulnerable with each other yet as soon as they get together they don't talk or communicate and everything is a secret. Then ASP eventually took their banter away too and I felt like I had landed in the Twilight Zone. The artifical external road blocks were also soap worthy to the extreme. Did we really need the Christopher shaped plot device and long lost daughter? Shouldn't the conflict and difficulty of making this relationship work have come from their problems as individual people? Lorelai 'need forklift for my baggage' Gilmore and Luke 'table for one' Danes are two proud, independant, headstrong and very damaged people and having problems erupt from that would have been all the conflict they needed. I think some fanfic writers are so much better at tackling exactly that kind of stuff and being able to capture both their humerous and serious sides that it makes you wonder wtf ASP's problem was.

I can be sure he didn't tell her because they were still together afterwards. That simple. His intend was to mind-rape her into loving him so he could break up with her to get even. That's the plot. What woman would stay with the guy afterwards? Cordelia most certanly wouldn't. It's usually not wrong. But I read through the entire Unpopular, Law and Ethics, Xander and Buffy topics and it made me uncomfortable. Other characters/posters get racked over the coals. And get their posts picked apart and set 'straight'. Again it's probably because there are only certain people currently posting on this board so it's kinda claustrophobic. But it made me uncomfortable for the simple reason that it feels like bullying. The whole time I'm reading these topics I'm thinking to myself: 'What is so wrong with having a different opinion? Why must 3-4 people jump on someones post and deliver their replies in such an authoritative way that it amounts to 'my opinion is the only right one.'' And that usually happened when soemone said something negative about Xander. It's honestly why I wasn't sure if I should be even posting in any of the threads. And before anyone accuses me of harping on some of Xander's actions because I like other characters more (because that's also a stereotype)...Xander was the only character (aside from Faith) that I didn't want to push to their death into the crater formerly known as Sunnydale. And I freaking love him in the S8 comics, crap and non-canon as they may be (no matter what Joss says to the contrary).

Yes he should be handed a medal for not taking advantage of someone who had their mind altered. Lets not forget he is the one who did it. I'm sorry but the least I expect from any decent human being is not taking advantage of someone under the influence, SPECIALLY if that being slipped the person the drug. How low are some here setting the bar for Xander and how high for all the other characters that constantly get raked over the coals? I just don't get it. This is exactly what I meant at the end of my post. Can't defend Xander without the usual 'but XYZ did so much worse'. Why can't people ever say they have issues with certain things Xander has done/said without someone bringing another character into it? Is Xander really so saintly that he has no faults or missteps during the run of the show? Kinda doubt it.

The Pack and BB&B...you gotta love those. If Xander was completely driven by the Hyena why did he go gunning for Buffy? She might be Alpha-female in the Scoobie gang but certainly not in Sunnydale. Technically if Xander was 100% Hyena it would be more likely for him to go after Cordelia. So from whom came the desire to go after Buffy? That's from human Xander. Also hyenas don't rape. The females have found a way to make it unlikely to work so it wouldn't even be attempted in the first place. Then the question is again who does that desire come from? Can't be the hyena. BB&B...Xander rapes Codelia's mind and in the process every female in Sunnydale, causes mobs to form (which most likely got people hurt...conveniently not adressed in the aftermath) and gets off free. AGAIN. Well ok I guess Willow not wanting to talk to him for a day or two is all the punishment he needed. Buffy forgives him right away. Of course telling Cordelia the actual purpose of the spell would have been the right thing to do. But then that would mean no more smoochies in the closet. Can't have that. I'm not even gonna adress Revelations or the hypocrisy surrounding him dating Anya. It's been done enough in several threads now and I don't think another round of the 'other characters are so much worse defense' is needed. I rather judge Xander and his actions by themselves. Which I did above.

It's kind of funny to me how much people harp on Jenny's death as Buffy's failure (specially Xander fans) considering the chain of events in the actual episode. Buffy at the beginning wanted to go after Angelus. Giles told her to lay low and Xander AGREED. Yet for some strange reason it's only Buffy that gets the blame here? And Xander later in the episode feels he has a standing going for verbal attack again and even bring it up again in S3, conveniently forgetting his part in this mess (AGAIN). Seriously boggles the mind.