ILoveReading

Someone was telling me that it was taken during the time of episode 7. So even if Jensen really bruised his hand, it should have been healed by then

Dean's hand is bruised.

What confusing me about this whole deal with the devil thing is when and how does Cas make it. Lucifer is in the AU. Does this mean he and Mary get out at mid-season? But then we have the Scooby Doo episode, which is episode 16. It makes most sense that it going to be an AU episode. But if Lucifer and Mary out then why would Sam and Dean still be poking around in AU worlds?

In response to Sam leaving for college. I don't think there is anything wrong with that. Sam has a right to live his own life. But I don't think Dean is a this horrible person because he was hurt by the fact that Sam left. Emotions are complicated and messy things that are rarely black and white. People can feel two things at once. I remember reading a story about Obama dropping his daughter off at college. He said he cried, so he was both sad and happy. Two conflicting emotions. I think this applies to Dean as well. He was hurt because he felt Sam cut him out of his life, but he was also proud at Sam for going his own way. (Canon- said by Dean in Scarecrow). Dean has issues with abandonment. So he would see Sam leaving as Sam leaving him. Is that fair to Sam, no, but again its a very real issue that again doesn't make Dean this horrible controlling bully the show tries to paint him as. Dean raised Sam. Was responsible for his well being. So Sam bascially saying "see ya." is bound to hurt. It's a very human type reaction. We also know that sometime after Sam left, John ditched Dean too. Despite feeling abandoned, he left Sam alone and complied with his wishes, and only came looking for Sam when John went missing. When Sam said he was going back to school after that, Dean didn't protest. In Shadow, when Sam said to Dean you have to let me go my own way. Dean's response was 'I know." When Sam leaves on his own terms, even if Dean doesn't like he doesn't follow (Scarecrow, and slash fiction come to mind). So when Sam chose Ruby over him, that was bound to bring back all Dean's abandoment issues right to forfront. In that situation, when your hurt, you get defensive. Which is why he might have brought up Sam leaving them. Humans aren't preprogrammed robots who are always going to say and do the right things. IMO, Dean had every right to feel hurt. Maybe he didn't use the right words to express that hurt. But he should be allowed to feel. So I'm going to agree to disagree that Dean was acting like a whiny brat or deserved anything Bobby said to him.

Sam also did this. "I had something I never had before." Kind of insulting to tell the guy who raised you that you were never happy with him. That condescending "organic" remark in episodes to. The "I want my time to count" remark. I'm sure I can find more if I re watched the ep. Again Dean is such a horrible person who only bosses Sam around bullies him, he needs to man up and leave. Again he's a grown man who is more than capable of giving as good as he gets. It's also not realistic. Sam is a legally dead serial killer. How is he supposed to go back to school? Besides I thought family was allowed to make you miserable. Or does that only apply to how people treat Dean? We'll have to agree to disagree.

Dean didn't chain Sam to the car. If he wanted to leave the door was wide open. Maybe Sam needs to grow up and stop acting like teenager. He's in his 30s, if he wants to leave, be a man and say, "Dean sorry but I'm leaving." Sam has never had a problem walking away before. Why would it be a problem this time? Sam also told Dean that he wanted his time to count for something. That is also Sam being a bully because he's disparaging Dean's life's work as if saving people, hunting things isn't important.

Dean was down and out on the floor. Sam had clearly won the fight by that that. There is no other reason to strangle Dean other then a power play. This is the exchange. First Dean tries to let Sam off the hook by telling him he doesn't know what he's doing. Sam is like, yes I do. Dean tells him its worse because if he knows what he's doing is wrong and does it anyway that makes him a monster. Sam ripped out a woman's throat with his teeth, and bled an innocent woman dry. I don't remember that nurse giving consent for Sam to take her life. Those things are pretty monstrous. So maybe its more of a case of the truth hurts. Plus, Dean had tears in his eyes and was crying when he said it, so it clearly hurt him to say it. Sam wasnt' some innocent puppy in this situation who was the victim of mean Dean.

Bolding mine. This is what bothers me most of all and why I could care less about Dean being the "emotional focus" His emotions are usually constantly invalidated, the majority of the time. The only time I can think of off hand where they weren't was the Amy storyline. I'm dreading the return of a certain character because of this

Contrast that with Sam's return the cage where we even got an episode that revolved around how Sam felt about this. So I don't think Sam's emotional focus is ignored.

I have no idea if there is something going on behind the scenes, but I know how I feel. What I feel is very reminiscent of how I felt watching the back half of s2 of Dark Angel. Alec started to figure in less and less. Strengths and characteristics that should have been central to his character disappeared. His character was becoming very marginalized. It turned out that behind the scenes politics very much played a part in part in all this. So it wasn't just a conspiracy theory. I will say that I didn't own a computer when Dark Angel was on. So I wasn't online. So my thoughts about how Alec was portrayed were not biased by outside opinions. These things do happen. Google Ricky Whittle and his treatment on The 100 for another example. Writers have said they identify with Sam more. Sera admitted to being preferential to Sam. Kripke said he was a younger brother and seeing Sam as his avatar. Buck/Lemming have repeatedly said they view Dean as a killer. The writers admitted that Dean's name didn't even come up in the planning of the trial story line. There was Singer pinching Jensen's ear. Carver called Dean boring. Carver saying that Dean is only the person he is because of the people around him. I saw on Twitter the other day that Ross/Lemming called Dean a deeply flawed character so it was a good thing Sam was there to balance him out. Carver couldn't be bothered to actually address important points about the Amara storyline. Dean's past and history was repeatedly ignored in episodes last season or downplayed to highlight how much worse Sam had it. Why was his the only hell hound interaction left out of the previouslies in the hell hound episode? Why are is Dean suddenly unable to fight or hold a weapon? All this available on Google for anyone that wants to look. For me the little things matter, and all those little things start to add up after while. Even if they dont' hate Jensen it does point to a lack of respect for Dean's character.

Actually, Sam and Cas didn't fall into line. They ended up locking Dean in the bunker dungeon because they felt he was a danger to himself and others. Dean escaped and went off with Crowley. Dean ended up having to knock Sam out to keep him out of the way. That doesn't come across as falling into line to me.

Dean didn't tell Sam to ditch Ruby because he was trying to control Sam, he told him to ditch her because he knew she couldn't be trusted and she was stringing Sam along. Dean and others pointed out this multiple times that Ruby was using him. So he was choosing Ruby all season long before Dean said me or her. It's his brothers first night back from hell. Maybe Sam for one night could have prioritized his brother, and been there in case Dean needed him. Sam threw that confession back in Dean's face. In the Siren ep. The siren didn't put those things in Sam's head, it just removed his inhibitions and allowed him to say it. He also said it again in On the Head of a Pin when he told Ruby Dean was too weak. Sam's time in his head in when the Levee breaks also showed he met every word he said under the Siren's influece. He kept telling himself it was him and only him that could do it and Dean was weak. "Doing it against his brothers wishes" makes it sound like Dean is being some kind of bossy meany. He wasn't trying to control Sam, he was trying to save him from himself. Something Sam asked Dean to do if he went down that road. Sam was addicted to demon blood. He was controlled his addiction, and Ruby was pulling his strings like a puppet master. When I say Sam chose Ruby, I believe he made that decision way back in the premier when he left his brother alone the first night back from hell.

I know we don't agree on much but I agree with this. If the show isn't going to go against its established formula they need to stop writing stories where the brothers shouldn't be togther. Because they should never have been together at the start of s8 or the back half of 9. Neither was ready to accept their brothers actions.

When you grow up with your father treating you like a blunt instrument and told constantly you don't matter and that your only purpose to keep your brother safe and you come back to find out nobody gave a damn you went missing its about to have an affect on how you act. Regardless of whether its OOC, Sam still tried to make Dean feel guilty for being friends with Cas. If Sam insists that Dean isn't allowed to have friends then he can't be surprised when Dean clings tighter to Sam. It wasn't' a year, because after the coin episode, and Dean was told to appreciate Sam more he let it drop. Until Sam himself forced the issue by going after Benny. If Sam left it alone he wouldn't have put Dean in a situation to defend Benny. Sam created that situation. So no sympathy for Sam on that one. Dean also tried to support Sam through the trials. Unlike Sam, who promised to be there for Dean, but forgot about that fancy speech the minute his arm lit up. We'll just agree to disagree that Dean was the bad guy here.

It's hardly surprising that Dean did what he did in Season 9 when Sam demanded Dean put him up on a pedestal and laid a massive guilt trip on Dean for daring to have a friend not named Sam. If Dean lost trust of faith in Sam, its because Sam more than earned it through his own actions and choices.

He did try. That scene in the motel room. Dean asks Sam how it happened. Sam didn't really answer. Something which Sam also did for the exact same reason, the very next season. Kind of hypocritical of Sam to be upset at Dean when its a trait he also exhibts.

Was Dean not supposed to be upset or hurt by the fact that he went missing for a year and come back to find nobody lifted a finger to help him? I can't find fault in him acting like any human would in that situation. Then add in Dean's PTSD from living in a 24/7 war zone, his abandonment issues and its not surprising that Dean wasn't exactly in a caring and sharing kind of mood. You (general you) would think that someone who we're told defining trait is empathy would have understood why Dean was so upset rather than just get defensive over that fact that Dean was upset. What's the point of the show making Dean learn multiple lessons about being more in touch with his feelings if when he expresses them they're just inconvenient for other people? Why couldn't Sam have just said. Dean, sorry I hurt you by not looking.. and gone into the story. It shouldn't' always be on Dean to make Sam feel better about himself. In that situation, Sam should have taken the high road, but nope its always about poor Sam and mean Dean. Sam's "welcome back" at the end of the reunion wasn't warm and full of love. Also Dean called Sam out more on the fact that he abandoned Kevin.

Called it that the Winchester's would be dad's just like the Winchester's would be generals.

From @Aeryn13 in the Lost and Found Thread I wouldn't mind if this was a running theme throughout the episodes, and kind of pick up a dropped storyline about the demons having a bounty on Dean that was mentioned in Swap Meat. I always thought a Final Destination type story as punishment for killing death would be cool. There is a scene in the promo where we see a car almost run Dean over, and there was that brief clip from ep 6 where we see Jensen filming the stunt of Dean almost getting hit buy the car. That's would be twice in a few eps. I wonder if Dean's death is somehow a part of Cas's resurrection.

Will respond in spoiler thread.

The problem this was the MO of the writers/showrunners starting in the back half of last season. Sam got to use the Michael lance because of circumstances. Sam got to take the alpha vamp and the alpha hell hound, and got both kills in the goat god episode because of circumstances. Dean ended up arrving after all the action went down twice last season. Once or twice, fine because Dean can't have all the kills but its becoming part of a pattern where Dean the writing makes sure the kill goes to Sam. I don't ever remember there being such a large descrepancy before. It's become more than noticable to a lot of people I know. One of my friends is Autistic and isn't on line. So she isn't influenced by opinions. She is also very good at recognizing patterns, and even she remarked on it. So I don't think its' just peoples bias about the majority of the action/kills going to Sam.

This was just about what I expected. I knew the whole, Dean's too sad wouldn't make sense on screen any more than off about Dean giving up on family. Right or wrong, its the very core characteristic of the character. It made no sense then and it makes no sense now, Jack is an annoying Cas clone. I don't need a Cas clone. I'd rather just have Cas. It feels exactly like I thought from the spoilers. Dean's being set up to learn one long lesson. Because, if there is one thing Dean really needs to learn its to not give up on family. If I truly thought this whole, Dean is sad was going somewhere I might be interested. But its just being used to highlight the weak Dean/strong Sam trope Dabb and Co. were so fond of last season. IMO, its also being used to as a way to keep Dean out of the action so SuperSam can save the day. It's also a way to keep Dean out of the initial bonding with Jack, so later when its time for Jack to save the day all the credit goes to Perfect big brother Sam and father Cas. Dean really has no part in this story. What's the point of Dean's so-called grief arc if he's just going to be made apologize for being upset later. Dean really needs to lock his feelings behind reinforced concrete because his feelings are always wrong. If/when Cas shows up again, I feel like the whole thing is just going to be dropped, without a satisfying emotional payoff. (That's not a spoiler, I don't for one minute believe Cas is going to stay dead). Both characters have been regressed back to their season 1 personalities. Dabb must have relalized he forgot to strip Dean of his instincts. It was the last Dean characteristic left. So it's not surprising those are the first to go.

I didn't find this particularly Dean-Centric, since Sam did all the heavy lifting, and saved the day. Jensen was fantastic, but it didn't amount to much more than Dean was sad. (I don't mean this in a bitch/jerk context, just explaining why I didn't find it particularly Dean-centric).

I think Cas's appearance is going to mostly just be in the last five minutes. I don't really see Cas having much of a presence on Wayward Sisters since the show is all about pushing Girl Power.

Dean's instincts are the one thing Dean managed to hand onto last season. Guess those had to go. Because if Cas is back and but not alive, then it will be something else Dean gets lectured over later about how he can't even tell the difference.