Lemuria

I accidentally put this in the season 8 thread! I'm moving it to the right place: OK, take this for what it's worth (and possibly an Everest-sized grain of salt!) but Emergency Awesome just posted a new video Jon Snow's True Name Revealed. According to the video, Empire Magazine did a preview spread on the upcoming season and when they did an interview with Isaac Hempstead-Wright, and talked about Bran's big secret and revealed what (according to this preview) is Jon's true name: (I know that this is a spoiler thread but just in case someone doesn't mind most spoilers but really, really doesn't want to know this in advance, I decided to err on the side of caution. Mods, I apologize if it was the wrong thing to do.)

Which makes no sense, because without Sam, Lucifer doesn't get out of the Cage.

Maybe he's only mostly dead. :)

I didn't think the holster looked long enough for the Colt, which has a sizeable cylinder and a fairly long barrel. But I'm not a gun expert, so... Edited to add: And what auntvi said! LOL

You know, I wonder if Crowley "reversed the polarity" so Lucifer could get free, because he (Crowley, that is) hasn't been able to find Kelly and Sproutifer and he thinks that Lucifer can. He may have some way to reinstate the binding. (Though I hate that demons and witches can now bind angels and archangels. Not anything they would have been able to do to in season 4, IMO)

These are the guys that turned reapers, who had been something different, into unimportant angels, and Death into somebody who would allow "rogue" reapers to keep existing, just to get themselves out of having to find a clever way to get Sam into Hell for the 2nd of the Idiot Trials.

Catrox, if they think anything she does in the next ep will redeem her, they continue to be really stupid about how what they've been writing hits that part of the audience that isn't them. Which is pretty much everybody. Ooo, good idea.

Well, the one good result of Luci being back on top is that the BMoL are going to be really surprised when they find out that their deal with Hell is kaput. Interesting that Crowley didn't light up when the angel blade was used--and how come Luci didn't notice that?--and there was a rat/ferret that followed the demons dragging Crowley out. Rowena?? Whatever the former coven leaders name is? [Olivette. Thanks Catrox]

But Max' eyes changed when he took the ring. IIRC, they went completely white. So this wasn't his using a magical artifact to do something with no consequences. Instead, it seems as if voluntarily and intentionally, with full knowledge of what that ring was and symbolized, touching the ring was enough to seal a new deal. As for the misogyny allegations: I've never bought into them. Since most everyone who isn't one of the four regulars dies sooner or later, the only way to prevent women from dying was to not have any on the show. That being said, I do find myself feeling differently about the possibility of all of the "old men" actually being women, considering how horribly the BMoL is being portrayed. The AMoL might have been a bunch of elitists toward hunters and, yes, somewhat sexist in keeping with the times--though they seemed to be trying to finally open to having women join--but they never behaved the way the Brits have and seemed to have a much greater moral and ethical base. So, yeah, making all of the "old men" women would, IMO, make the difference between the all-male Americans and the all-female Brits come across as gender-based. JMO. YMMV.

It doesn't make any sense, as it's a zero sum game for the demon. It never gets anymore than 1 soul in total. So even though Sam has no more knowledge about the Colt than Dean and even though Dean is the one with the most connection to and the brother who built his own shotgun as a kid and is way more into weaponry, asks Sam if Sam can fix it. Not even, "Can we fix it?" Then again, this is the Dean who's forgotten how to pick a lock, When is the last time we saw him do that?

Angels are "interdimensional wavelengths of celestial intent" and demons are smoke. Neither has a blood type. Or blood, for that matter.

Katy M, I apologize but I don't understand that . Angels and demons don't seem to "breed"; the only offspring we've ever heard about was with humans. And that should dilute the power not increase it. Rue721, I applaud your optimism.

Boy, that was bad and really boring. Lots of stupid people. And stupid angels. And stupid demons--I mean, Dagon is going to rule alongside Luci. Rule what? She says that Sproutifer is going to kill all the disgusting angels and humans and demons. So, she wants to be Queen of--what? rutabagas? What else would be left? (Hopefully, Asmodeus only want revenge. A good reason that has stood the test of time. lol) Dean not only cannot get a kill but he also doesn't do any research anymore or come up with any ideas or plans. Except that one time when he didn't know who he was. Maybe someone should hit him on the head. Why they brought back either Joshua or the Colt is beyond me. I have no idea why the show takes the position that a half-demon (Jesse) or a half-archangel (Sproutifer) would be more powerful than a full demon or a full archangel. Then again, this is SPN, so I guess...reasons?

The kids gather at "Weathertop." We're in LOTR territory.

I'm probably wrong--I usually am in speculations!--but I felt that we were supposed to like, or at least admire, the BMoL. Dabb was very complimentary in his comments about them early on. We got a Lady Toni with a cute kid and being very egalitarian with her--aide? Servant? Member of her retinue?--in the last ep last year. There was no "Code" that required them to kill anyone who kills a member of the BMoL, or they would have been after Dean and Sam for the death of the Bearer of the Angelic Knucklebusters at the beginning of the season. And so on. While they couldn't really respond on a week-to-week basis, since eps are written well in advance of the showing, I think the mostly negative reaction to Lady T. and the BMoL might have changed the direction of the show in regard to them in the now-showing second half of the season. (Speaking of Lady Toni's kid: The Sun was dying, Creation was ending, but she was over here trying to capture the Winchesters instead of staying with her son. Why the heck did she, or anyone in the BMoL, care about the Winchesters or American hunters at that juncture?)

I have to respectfully disagree. This makes me think of the people who insist on their right to build their houses on flood plains or barrier islands, and who equally insist that no one else, especially that there dang gummint (or the taxpayers) can tell them not to. And I'd agree if all the consequences of that decision fell on them. But no, they want the taxpayers to build them levees and jetty walls to help protect the houses that shouldn't be there in the first place, or even more, to rebuild them when they get wiped out. There's an old saying: "He who pays the piper, calls the tune." It's your right--until you stick your hand in my pocket and expect me to shoulder the cost of your choices. That gives me the right to tell you where you can put your house, IMO. It's the same here for me. Ms. "it's my life...I get all the votes" wants to be the only one with a say in her choices--until they go bad. Then it's "Dean and Sam (and Jody) to the rescue." And since by then, it's all gone south, it puts the Winchesters in danger to rescue her (and pulls them away from possibly saving other people who didn't get themselves into the mess). She proves over and over that she is not capable (or smart) enough to hunt on her own but she never seems to learn the lesson. She continues to lack the maturity to recognize her faults and failures, or to control her tendency to rush into things and do stupid stuff. So, yep, as long as they have to pull her chestnuts out of the fire on a regular basis, they get a say in what she does. They're absolutely right, IMO, to tell her to get back to hunting with a more experienced and knowledgeable person and to learn how to actually do the job. I agree: When Perez' first ep was too long, his solution was to write one of the two main leads out of 20-25 minutes of the episode. In his other two eps, Dean has been irrelevant. He could have been written out and nothing would have changed. It's clear that Perez neither likes nor know what to do with Dean. But there was a reason for that: the Alpha was commanding all vampires to come to the fold. He was raising an army (as were the other Alphas. Another idea with possibilities that went nowhere) and Lenore indicated that they had been unable to resist his call. A number of fans have repeatedly claimed that Sam was angry with Dean because Dean let him be possessed by an angel. But you know who never said that? Sam. His whole spiel was "I wanted to die and you didn't let me. You don't respect my choices." An incredibly stupid position for Sam to take--since pretty much the last thing Sam told Dean before Sam went comatose was that he wanted to live and that was why he stopped doing the Trials, so Dean had every reason to think that saving Sam was what Sam would want. Yes, Dean knew that Sam wouldn't be thrilled with the idea of even temporary possession but since as far as Dean knew he was dealing with a stand-up angel (Ezekiel) who would help Sam and heal himself at the same time and then would leave Sam, it seemed to be a win-win. It would actually have been very hypocritical of Sam to be bent out of shape about what Dean believed would be a temporary situation, when in season 8 we watched Sam force an escaping demon back into an innocent host, for the express purpose of killing that demon and the innocent host. And in season 9 (I think it was) he had no problem with having Crowley possess someone to get information. So really, he didn't have a leg to stand on if he had complained about it. Which he didn't. I saw Dean in the same position as a family being told that there were two options in regard to their comatose son, who had a leg infected with gangrene: lose the leg or lose his life. They would probably believe that their son wouldn't really want to lose his leg but they'd make that choice anyway: You can still live a productive and even happy life with one leg, but dead is forever. Unfortunately, being comatose tends to abrogate voting rights. Having Sam be possessed temporarily by an angel was the last thing Dean would want to do but if it was the only choice left, he would take it, especially believing as he did that Sam wanted to live. JMO. YMMV.

I think she could be more of a target because she showed that their cure could work on a human. They might want to capture and study her. (If it gets her off my screen, I'm OK with that. No lesson learned the hard way ever takes with her for more than an hour, apparently.)

So, doing something really stupid, overestimating your abilities and getting bitten by a werewolf as a result proves that you're ready to hunt on your own? Oy.

Mine, too! (I would be totally up for a Doctor Strange/Supernatural crossover.)

For me, the Big Damn Hero rating is inversely proportional to the Big Damn Idiot rating. They had Sam do too many stupid things to get to the BDH point, IMO. If the Cunning Plan was to Keep Moving, then you--wait for it, now--keep moving. I mean, Sam, would Sandra Bullock have pulled the bus over because a passenger might be getting bus sick? Just tell Gwen to open a window. And then try to outrun or bash the Hound of the Baskervilles (I really don't think that Sam was so terrified of what Dean might say if he dented the Impala that he would put a PiP at risk). And call 911-DEAN because it's not as if Dean was with a, say, demon who could teleport them both there in a nanosecond--oh, wait. And then you don't get out of the car (cause it's not as if having a steel framework around you could be any safer than standing out in the open, right? oh, wait). It's a good thing Gwen was there, wasn't it? (I really hate when they have characters do stuff like this. I'm one of the few people I know who hated "The Wrath of Khan" because there were three major points in the film where they have Our Heroes do things so stupid or OOC that they wrecked the film for me.)

ILoveReading, I'm hoping that Dean's agreement at the end is that he knows now that both Mary and Sam are allying themselves with the BMoL and if he wants them to stay safe--and we know that is important to him--he needs to be there when they are hunting with the BMoL ( or with info from the British twits). If that's the case, I'll be interested in seeing what happens if Dean decides, "Nope, they're useless and we can't rely on them or their intel," but Sam and Mary want to keep working with them.

ZennyKenny, thank you for making me realize how wrong I was to dislike so much of this episode! Looking at it again through your warped mind amazing perspicacity, I am still bored by the tension-less same old same old and ticked off by the irrelevance of Dean in this episode blown away by the startling twists and turns and incredibly sharp characterizations. I throw a cow at you!

I disagree with the comments that if Brooke had ordered the pork belly and it wasn't delivered, the show would have rectified the situation. I remember episodes where the chefs were cooking in odd locales--outside, on the beach etc--and someone's grill or oven didn't work right and it screwed things up for them. I remember thinking, "Wait. The show provided this equipment; the chefs didn't have any choice about using what they were assigned. If something wasn't working right, that's on the show, not the chef. They should give them a pass." Yet, they never did. So I have no trouble believing the show wouldn't have done anything to even things out if the order was not delivered correctly. And as has been pointed out, you can mess up any dish. Merely have the pork bellies did not guarantee Brooke a win. She still had to make a dish the judges liked.

Good point.

Especially when we just saw Dean stop Ketch from continuing to torture a vampire for information.