AnythingCanBe

Whoops! I forgot we have to go back 16-ish years from when the show was set to get to Pearl's conception. Duh. Still a terrible arrangement, but it makes a bit more sense. The law still hasn't completely caught up to all the ways people become parents these days. I can't imagine how much uncharted territory there was in the 80s.

On that note, did they ever explain why the Ryans took such a sketchy route to surrogacy? I imagine there were surrogacy agencies or other formal ways to make arrangements in NYC by the 90s, but maybe I'm off on that? I know they wanted someone who looked like Mrs. Ryan, but there are ways for agencies to set that up. What made following a teenager off the subway and handing her a turkey baster seem like a good idea?

I've been thinking the same thing as the bolded. In the season one, for example, we saw the childhood moments where Kevin treated Randall like an outsider and how that shaped them and their relationship into adulthood. Now, we see the childhood moments where Randall belittled Kevin and we realize that the hostility wasn't so one-sided. I bet if you asked Kevin and Randall to tell you about their preteen years, you would get slanted pictures too. Not sure if it's intentional by the writers, but it's interesting. I'm getting to a point of struggling to empathize with Randall now though. On an arguably brighter note, this show actually led to my having a really good conversation with my mom this morning. My parents have been dragging their feet when it comes to living wills, estate planning, etc. They're in their early 60s and fortunately are healthy, but nothing is guaranteed. We got to talking about how it's really important for them to make their wishes known now so my siblings and I aren't left guessing and fighting one day if my parents aren't able to make decisions for themselves. The show really made clear how unhealthy difficult sibling dynamics can be magnified when parents are aging/ill. My siblings and I are close, but we also have some personality differences and history that I bet would bubble up if we have to make tough choices about our parents' care one day. Thinking about it from that angle made a big impact on my mom.

Potentially dumb question: Was there something particularly upsetting about the painting that I missed? Sure, it might not be to everyone's taste, but I wouldn't expect an ugly painting to be annoying or anxiety inducing in the way that the other things Randall got upset about were. With the hissing noise for example, even though Randall was insufferable about it, I could at least understand why it was part of putting him on edge.

It's disturbingly fascinating to me to try to picture how these social media overshare conversations between spouses play out. Like are they sitting next to each other on the couch while publicly tweeting deeply personal things to each other? Do they read it aloud to one another? Are they even acknowledging any of this in person? So bizarre.

Ultimately, I think the judge was very right about some things and very wrong about some things. It's just a reality that there were things Jack and Rebecca couldn't offer Randall. We saw in The Pool that they managed to go eight years without learning how to care for his skin and hair. We saw in the episode with the martial arts school that Randall was craving black role models. No amount of love would allow Jack and Rebecca to fully understand formative experiences like being called the n-word for the first time or being followed around a nice store. Raising a black child isn't the same as raising a white child, and I don't think it's racist to acknowledge that; it's just honest. Where the judge went wrong was in assuming that those difficulties meant Jack and Rebecca couldn't raise Randall at all (especially after he had been in their family for over a year). As we've seen, they eventually developed ways to bridge the gap, and Randall grew into a man who is both very confident in his blackness (side note: I loved the head scarf and coconut oil line!) and loved by his white family.

I think people might be remembering the line that was something to the effect of "He got a shooter into the Pennsylvania State Capitol." I believe that was a reference to the shooting Cyrus set up last season to make Vargas a hero. The victory celebration was in Philly.

I can't find it right now, but I think Shonda or someone on the production side of things once tweeted that the painting is a nod to Jesse Williams because he's really into shoes. I'm interested in a lot of things that I wouldn't necessarily want a giant painting of, but to each his own I guess. Now that you mention it though, it's kind of odd that Jackson wouldn't take that with him. Hell if I were him I'd take the whole apartment back and make April find a new place.

I totally agree. That dilemma is why I go back and forth with watching this show. On one hand, I find people like Chelsea boring because I don't tune into a trashy reality TV show just to see a competent adult going about her daily life. On the other hand, the train wrecks like Jenelle and Leah are more entertaining but they're also screwing with the lives of innocent kids. For example, it's hilarious to watch Addy down sugar packets until you stop and realize that probably happens regularly because she's not being watched and/or not being well fed.

This is great news if true. Family court judges generally aren't falling over themselves looking for reasons to give primary custody to fathers, so a judge must have finally seen that there is some serious shit going down in Leah's house to award custody to Corey. I wish this could serve as a wakeup call for Leah, but I worry it will only speed up her downward spiral. I sincerely hope she gets it together. When I saw her name pop up as a trending topic on Facebook, my first thought was that she had OD'ed or gotten in a car accident or something. I think Leah, unlike Jenelle, does care about her kids and could be a decent mother in the future if she wises up and gets a whole lot of help (and not the Mama Dawn/enabling/therapyNOTrehab version).

I'm a little late to the party here, but I don't think this has been posted. Us Weekly has the official wedding photos. Tyler must be thrilled. http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-style/pictures/catelynn-lowell-tyler-baltierra-wedding-album-teen-mom-2015278/46763 I've been skeptical of this couple since the will they/won't they wedding planning, but they do look happy. I wish them the best.

For what it's worth, I agree with your first and last points. I respect that Chelsea isn't a hot mess like her co-stars, but that's not saying much. In the grand scheme of things, she's essentially just a functional adult, which IMO is nice but doesn't make her such a saint that she's immune from snark. I just find her annoying to be honest (and not just because of the voice). Obviously that's my personal opinion and not some great character flaw of hers, but regardless it sure meant I did a lot of fast forwarding this week. She was particularly grating for some reason. As to your last point, I wouldn't go as far as to compare her to Leah, but I could see Aubree being a handful as a teenager. She's adorable, but she has a defiant streak that Chelsea doesn't seem to be great at handling. Also throw in her potential daddy issues, and things could get rough. Sadly, I guess a lot of the sweet little ones on these shows are destined to repeat their parents' mistakes.

I think many posters here are hitting on something about both Kail and Leah that drives me crazy: They think that mothers are inherently more important than fathers. Their men are simply interchangeable. They should be thanking their lucky stars that they have the baby daddies they do. Not all girls who get pregnant at 16 with guys they barely know are so lucky. I bet Chelsea would kill to have someone like Jo or Corey as Aubree's dad. Instead of encouraging their kids' relationships with their dads, Kail fights Jo at every turn and tries to turn Javi into Isaac's dad, and Leah moves her kids in with some random dude while she spirals out of control and poor Corey has to struggle to get half the week with his girls. It makes me sick.

They weren't on the way to Florida yet. Javi planned a night out (in Philly I think?) and then they were going to stay at a hotel that night so that they could work on things before going to Florida. Because apparently these people are so miserable that they need a pre-vacation before the real thing. I just can't buy that Javi is still in the Air Force with such a cushy schedule. I'm not from a military family so maybe I don't know the lifestyle, but I assume that most airmen, you know, work. That's the thing that I can't figure out about Adam's friend. Is he an unattractive middle-aged guy, or is he a twenty-something who's been living even harder than Adam? He's one step away from the "after" picture in one of those scary meth ads.

Did anyone catch poor Isaac bouncing off Kail's ass when they were playing soccer in the closing montage? That was just good TV.

I agree with you to a certain degree. I know many people think Adam is only around for selfish reasons (to screw with Chelsea, to look good for the cameras/future baby mamas, etc.). While that is probably part of it, I think he has genuine affection for Aubree. In some of their scenes,* I've been pleasantly surprised to see that he has a certain ease with her that I don't think could be completely faked. He is still a douche with poor judgment though, so I wouldn't go as far as to say he should have unsupervised visitation. I just don't think he should be cut out of Aubree's life completely. I know that's not what Chelsea is aiming for, but some people here and elsewhere have (completely validly) held that opinion. * A notable exception would be that scene at the restaurant last week where he was interrogating her. That was just disgusting.

I’ve been sick in bed all day, so I decided to catch up on this season. Well, now I feel worse. There’s nothing to be said about Jenelle that hasn’t already been said. She’s pretty much irredeemable in my eyes. Side note: Kaiser Permanente looks so much like his psycho dad, doesn’t he? As if he wasn’t going to have a hard enough life already. Leah needs to stop surrounding herself with enablers like her mother so she can get it together. That girl looks like 100 miles of bad road. She’s always been an incompetent brat, but there’s obviously something more going on this season. Poor Corey must worry every day that he’s going to get a call saying she wrapped her car around a pole or accidentally burned the house down or something. Kail is a decent mother in comparison to Jenelle and Leah (high bar, huh?), but she still continues to be a raging bitch. I cackled when she started criticizing Javi’s compliment. That was just such a Kailyn thing to do. Maybe that kind of stuff is why she’s hard to compliment in the first place. Don’t get me started on the way she disrespects Jo as a father. I’ve never found Jo particularly likeable, but he’s a good dad to Isaac and has been completely reasonable with Kail this season. And then we have Chelsea, the only one of the bunch who doesn’t make me want to throw things. Too bad Aubree has a shit father to counteract her mother’s positive influence. And Adam’s parents are idiots to be picking fights with Chelsea. They should realize that staying on Chelsea’s good side is their best shot at staying in Aubree’s life.

Re: the ring, during that special they did right before this season (the one where the girls watched old footage, can't remember what it was called), there was actually what I thought was a really poignant moment. When Amber was watching the clip of Gary buying the ring and then proposing, I expected her to use it as an opportunity to make a dig at Gary. Instead, she actually really surprised me by talking about how sweet it was and how she misses the days back when they had nothing because Gary has changed so much since then. It's like what people were talking about upthread, Gary and Amber really seemed to love each other back in the day, and not in a toxic manipulative way. I guess money doesn't solve everything.

I would say Amber is the worst out of the girls on TM1, but if we're looking at both shows my vote is for Jenelle. I think she and Amber are about even in many respects (anger, substance abuse, legal trouble, bringing sketchy men around their kids, etc.), but the tiebreaker for me is that Jenelle is the only one out of all eight girls that makes me legitimately question whether she loves her children.

Awhile ago I thought I might finally have to stop watching the TM/TM2 franchise. It was just getting too depressing to watch these girls make the same mistakes over and over again. Then I saw the preview and said, "Screw that. Game on." That Nipples scene alone is reason enough to tune in for a whole season. Well played, MTV.

For what it's worth, I think Amelia was far better on Private Practice than she is on Grey's. I can't put my finger on exactly why that is. I think at least part of it is that she had fewer speeches, and the whole young maverick persona worked better when she was earlier in her career.

I think Zola has spina bifida.

I think there was another guy in the middle who never made it into the show. Wasn't his name also Kyle? I don't know if he ever moved in though Anyway, I tend to agree with you that Maci's string of serious boyfriends isn't the worst thing in the world. I'm Maci's age, and I can't imagine having tried to settle down with 3-4 different guys, but that's just based on where I am in my life. If settling down is a priority for her, more power to her. One good thing about Maci is she seems to be a decent judge of character. She has actual friends, and the boyfriends she's had since Ryan have seemed like decent guys who are good with Bentley. I worry much more about someone like Amber bringing home her flavor of the month. Switching gears, I have a question for anyone who is familiar with addiction treatment. What is the prevailing opinion on whether recovering addicts should date each other?

I was confused by that. I could be remembering wrong, but weren't they fairly wealthy back in the day? Farrah mentioned that they have/had jobs, yet they can pick up and move whenever, and they're hitting up their daughter for money.

Maci needs to get over herself. Viewed out of context, I could kind of understand her point. I can see why she would be uncomfortable with having one scene of her playing baseball with her child and then the next scene cuts to Farrah selling blow-up dolls or whatever she does. However, in context, I can’t take Maci seriously given that she’s happily signed on for this trashy reality show for over half a decade. It’s a little late to be drawing lines in the sand. Did the show live up to her moral standards when Amber was getting high and beating Gary’s face in? Oh Amber. I love the reasons she gave for why this relationship is better than the one with Gary: The new boyfriend is way older than her, and they have more in common because he’s an ex-addict. Yes, Amber. Clearly that’s the recipe for success. The guy seems creepy too. Did he really announce he was moving in with Amber by casually mentioning he gave up his apartment? Like with Kristina, I have to assume that there’s something wrong this guy if he’s willing to give up everything to wade into this mess. Farrah also had some great words of wisdom. She said plastic surgery goes overboard when you can no longer afford it. I would say plastic surgery also goes overboard when you start looking like an alien, but I guess Farrah hasn’t learned that part. The only person who garnered my sympathy this week was Catelynn. I’ve never been pregnant, but I imagine it’s difficult to eat well on top of everything else there is to deal with. It’s probably doubly hard for Cate because she never really figured out healthy habits before pregnancy, and she has douchey Tyler looking over her shoulder all the time. I felt bad watching her look like a sad puppy the whole episode, but seeing her at the end with the new baby was sweet. Overall, my main takeaway from the episode is God bless that poor producer who has to play best friend/therapist to Amber, Farrah, and apparently Deb.